Daniel's 1260 vs. 1290 vs. 1335 vs. 2300 Days

[Researcher]

I have a little bit of free time tonight to talk about the Woman of the Apocalypse:

Revelation 12:14 - And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

Let us break this verse down.

And to the woman...:
The woman is whoever has dominion over the lineage or seed of the Messiah. The first woman to carry this seed was Eve. In the context of Revelation 12, the woman is symbolic of all of the mothers who carried 'Her Seed' from Sarah to Mary. It is not representative of just one woman.

...were given two wings of a great eagle...:
This phrase is deciphered for us in Exodus 19:3-4...

Exodus 19:3-4 - And Moses went up unto God, and the LORD called unto him out of the mountain, saying, Thus shalt thou say to the house of Jacob, and tell the children of Israel; Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles’ wings, and brought you unto myself.

The verse is of course referring to the Exodus:


And now we know what the next phrase means...

...that she might fly into the wilderness...:
The wilderness is the place that the Israelites fled to. The Seed of the Woman, the lineage of the Messiah, is there being protected.

...into her place...:
'Her place' is the Tabernacle in the Wilderness. It is the Temple Body of the Messiah. The Seed of the Woman is now anthropomorphized into a humble tentlike structure. It is a perfect representation of a eukaryotic cell and zygote.

...where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time...:
For 1260 years, the body of the Messiah is taken care of with precise instructions until his birth. Each day has its feeding times. Cleanliness is a must.

Numbers 11:12 - Have I conceived all this people? have I begotten them, that thou shouldest say unto me, Carry them in thy bosom, as a nursing father beareth the sucking child, unto the land which thou swarest unto their fathers?

Lol... Oh Moses. If you only knew.

...from the face of the serpent.:
This is euphemism, i.e., the Meat of the Word that most cannot handle. The male reproductive organ casts a flood of ungodly men, yet to be conceived, from its 'face' to corrupt the bloodline. Fortunately, Abraham's Seed remains uncorrupted. The serpent's strategy fails.

 

[Researcher]

The Great Dragon:

Revelation 12:9 - And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

He is cast down to become the first head of the Beast, i.e., the King of Egypt.

Always let Scripture interpret Scripture...

Ezekiel 29:3 = Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river is mine own, and I have made it for myself.

The phrase 'The Great Dragon' can be seen in both verses. Easy peasy.

How did the Israelites overcome the Dragon?

Revelation 12:11 - And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death."

By what blood?

Exodus 12:23 - For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

Hey AI, did the Israelites wandering in the wilderness love their lives unto the death?



Got it, thanks!

 

[Researcher]

...from the face of the serpent.:
This is euphemism, i.e., the Meat of the Word that most cannot handle. The male reproductive organ casts a flood of ungodly men, yet to be conceived, from its 'face' to corrupt the bloodline. Fortunately, Abraham's Seed remains uncorrupted. The serpent's strategy fails.

Hey AI, what is the Greek word for 'seed' in Revelation 12:17?

Revelation 12:17 - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Wow, like Abraham's Seed. I see, thanks again!

 

[cv5]

The Great Dragon:



He is cast down to become the first head of the Beast, i.e., the King of Egypt.

Always let Scripture interpret Scripture...



The phrase 'The Great Dragon' can be seen in both verses. Easy peasy.

How did the Israelites overcome the Dragon?



By what blood?



View attachment 293184

Hey AI, did the Israelites wandering in the wilderness love their lives unto the death?

View attachment 293185

Got it, thanks!

Nope. The dragon is cast down just after the harpazo (yet future). The setting is the 70th week of Daniel, the tribulation.

Rev 12:9
And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Rev 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

[Rev 12:6, 13-14 KJV]
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred [and] threescore days. ...

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man [child].

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.

 

[Researcher]

Nope. The dragon is cast down just after the harpazo (yet future). The setting is the 70th week of Daniel, the tribulation.

Why is the woman pregnant and making babies before she gets married?

 

[GaryA]

On what textual basis do you interpret the 1260 as literal days here and sometimes literal years?

The only honest answer I can give you is to say that it is a conclusion that comes from much study - every separate passage must be discerned in the context of the passage while also being in agreement with scripture-as-a-whole.

What I said in post #116 is actually a conclusion from study and not an arbitrary starting assumption based on the use of the words.

There is noo "fantasy" in believing in that 7 year or 3,5 year tribulation. Those are the time lengths given in the book of Revelation itself! How is that fantasy??

Please show me a place in Revelation where you see a 7-year prophetic span of time. If you will say "Well, the 7-year period is actually two 3.5-year periods back-to-back." - then, show me that/those. However, you must also show how that they are actual days.

The "fantasy" that I am referring to is the result of believing that every place where the 3.5-year equivalent number is given is talking about the very same span of time and events - and, further complicated by the believe that anything-and-everything in Revelation is part of this believed 'Tribulation Period'.

The "fantasy" that I am referring to is believing that 'pre-trib' [anything] is [even] possible when it is very easily shown to be literally impossible in scripture.

The "fantasy" is not being willing to let go of the complicated/complex invention that is 'pre-trib rapture' in order to see the simple painfully-obvious unmistakable truth that is clearly present in scripture.

 

[GaryA]

However, you must also show how that they are actual days.

It is all too easy to push any particular time span into the future; however, when it can be shown to "match" history on a day-year scale...

But, you see - the thing that helps the most in identifying the 'scale' of these time spans is this - to recognize and accept the simple straight-forward painfully-obvious "blatant" truths of scripture and make that your core foundation - rather than having to rely on some complex thing built upon force-fit scripture as its components.

 

[cv5]

The only honest answer I can give you is to say that it is a conclusion that comes from much study - every separate passage must be discerned in the context of the passage while also being in agreement with scripture-as-a-whole.

What I said in post #116 is actually a conclusion from study and not an arbitrary starting assumption based on the use of the words.


Please show me a place in Revelation where you see a 7-year prophetic span of time. If you will say "Well, the 7-year period is actually two 3.5-year periods back-to-back." - then, show me that/those. However, you must also show how that they are actual days.

The "fantasy" that I am referring to is the result of believing that every place where the 3.5-year equivalent number is given is talking about the very same span of time and events - and, further complicated by the believe that anything-and-everything in Revelation is part of this believed 'Tribulation Period'.

The "fantasy" that I am referring to is believing that 'pre-trib' [anything] is [even] possible when it is very easily shown to be literally impossible in scripture.

The "fantasy" is not being willing to let go of the complicated/complex invention that is 'pre-trib rapture' in order to see the simple painfully-obvious unmistakable truth that is clearly present in scripture.

"Please show me a place in Revelation where you see a 7-year prophetic span of time."

And there you have it. Enjoy......

From a rigorous exegetical and futurist standpoint, the book of Revelation does not explicitly feature a single continuous verse containing the number "7 years." Instead, Scripture details the structural components of Daniel’s 70th week by presenting **two distinct, consecutive 3.5-year periods** (each defined explicitly in **actual days**) that combine to form the exact 7-year prophetic span (one week of years, or 7\text{ years} = 84\text{ months} = 2,520\text{ days}).

### Part 1: The Two Back-to-Back 3.5-Year Periods in Revelation
In the framework of dispensational, futurist eschatology, the 70th week of Daniel (Daniel 9:27) is bisected by the "abomination of desolation" into two equal halves of 42 months / 1,260 days. Revelation mirrors this exact bisection through its complementary structural halves:

1. **The First 3.5-Year Period (The First 1,260 Days / 42 Months):**
* **The Two Witnesses' Ministry:** Revelation 11:3 states that God's two witnesses will prophesy for **1,260 days** clothed in sackcloth.
* **The Trampling of Jerusalem:** Revelation 11:2 notes that the Gentiles will tread the holy city underfoot for **42 months**.
* *Context:* This corresponds to the first half of the 7-year covenant period, running concurrently with the ministry of the sealed remnant and the opening seals.
2. **The Second 3.5-Year Period (The Second 1,260 Days / 42 Months):**
* **The Beast’s Authority at Zenith:** Revelation 13:5 declares that the beast (resurrected and indwelt by Satan, matching your observation regarding the climax of the man of lawlessness) is given authority to continue and blaspheme for **42 months**.
* **The Woman in the Wilderness:** Revelation 12:6 specifies that the woman (Israel) flees into the wilderness where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there for **1,260 days**.
* **Times, Times, and Half a Time:** Revelation 12:14 reiterates this exact second half as being nourished for "a time, and times, and half a time" (which mathematically equals 1 + 2 + 0.5 = 3.5\text{ years}).
**The Mathematical Sum:**
When you combine the first 1,260-day/42-month block with the second 1,260-day/42-month block (1,260\text{ days} + 1,260\text{ days} = 2,520\text{ days}), you arrive precisely at **7 prophetic years** (based on the Biblical/ancient calendar standard of 360 days per year / 30 days per month, as seen in Genesis and Daniel).

### Part 2: Proving They Are Actual, Literal Days
To demonstrate that these timeframes are composed of **actual days** rather than vague symbols or long historical epochs (such as the day-year principle), we must examine the internal lexical, numerical, and structural data within Revelation and its foundational text, Daniel:
#### 1. The Explicit Use of the Greek Word *Hēmera* (Day)
In Revelation 11:3 and Revelation 12:6, the text does not use an abstract horizon; it uses the precise Greek noun **hēmera** (day) coupled with an exact cardinal number: *chilia diakosia hexēconta hēmeras* (**1,260 days**). In Greek, when a specific integer modifies the noun "days," it demands literal chronological duration. This is reinforced in Revelation 11:9, where the dead bodies of the witnesses lie in the street for **"three and a half days"** (*tēmeras treis kai hēmisu*). Because everyone agrees the 3.5 days of the witnesses lying unburied in Jerusalem are literal, physical days of public gloating, the consistent hermeneutical rule of context dictates that the adjacent 1,260 days (the macro-counterpart) share the exact same literal nature on the temporal scale.
#### 2. The Granular Use of Months and Days Interlocked
Revelation deliberately employs interchangeable units that only function mathematically if they represent literal calendar increments:
* * 1,260\text{ days} \div 365.25 (or structured prophetic 360\text{-day} sacred years) scales directly into **3.5 revolutionary solar cycles / years**.
If these were generalized symbolic epochs (thousands of years), sub-units like "three and a half days" (Rev 11:9) or precise numerical bounds would break down logically. The text grounds macro-events (the beast's global hegemony) with the same granular precision used for micro-events (the corpses in the street).
#### 3. Danielic Anchor and the "Midst" of the Week
Your premise correctly aligns with Daniel 9:27, which states that the covenant is confirmed for one week (7 years), and *"in the middle of the week [after 3.5 years] he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering."*
* The Hebrew word for "week" (*shabua*) means a unit of seven (a heptad). In the context of Daniel 9 and the subsequent timeline in Daniel 12:11–12, time is calculated down to specific day counts: *"And from the time that the daily sacrifice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be **one thousand two hundred and ninety days**. Blessed is he who waits, and comes to the **one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days**."*
* Notice the inclusion of extra literal days (the extension from 1,260 to 1,290 and 1,335 days in Daniel 12). This level of day-specific accounting shatters any abstract or allegorical interpretation. It proves that the Holy Spirit is tracking history using a concrete calendar of **actual days** culminating precisely at the return of Christ to establish His earthly kingdom.

 

[cv5]

However, you must also show how that they are actual days.

Is this making good sense friend? If it doesn't, let me know maybe I can help make it make sense. Because yea, it makes perfect sense.

1. The Explicit Use of the Greek Word *Hēmera* (Day)
In Revelation 11:3 and Revelation 12:6, the text does not use an abstract horizon; it uses the precise Greek noun **hēmera** (day) coupled with an exact cardinal number: *chilia diakosia hexēconta hēmeras* (**1,260 days**). In Greek, when a specific integer modifies the noun "days," it demands literal chronological duration.

 

[Ceph]

There are several entities being referenced in the verse you quoted. Which one are you referring to?

One thing is certain. None of them are Antiochus IV Epiphanes.

I'm telling you that the abomination of desolation isn't Christ.

Mark 13:
10The Good News must first be preached to all the nations. 11When they lead you away and deliver you up, don’t be anxious beforehand or premeditate what you will say, but say whatever will be given you in that hour. For it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit. 12“Brother will deliver up brother to death, and the father his child. Children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death. 13You will be hated by all men for my name’s sake, but he who endures to the end will be saved.
14“But when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,

It's more likely that the abomination of desolation is what the little horn of the beast sets up.

 

[Researcher]

I'm telling you that the abomination of desolation isn't Christ.

Let's take a close look at one of the verses you quoted:

14“But when you see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not” (let the reader understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains,

We are instructed to read the Book of Daniel to understand. It just so happens that one of the most important verses to unraveling the mystery of the Abomination of Desolation is in Daniel 11:31:

Daniel 11:31 - And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

OK, so now we have one of the verses that Jesus was referencing. My question to you is how do you interpret the verse just prior?

Daniel 11:30 - For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

If you are going to 'tell me' what the Abomination of Desolation is or is not, then surely you know precisely what the ships of Chittim are. You should also know who 'he' is and why 'he' is grieved. In fact, you should be able to break the verse into sections and interpret every bit of it with precision like I can.

Can you do that for me? Can anyone here do that? I am throwing this out as a challenge to anyone reading. All of you here need to prove that you have Daniel 11 interpreted properly before I, or anyone else for that matter, can believe what you say.

It's more likely that the abomination of desolation is what the little horn of the beast sets up.

You are absolutely correct. But do you understand when, how and why? Are you able to use Scripture to prove it as I can?

 

[Ceph]

Let's take a close look at one of the verses you quoted:



We are instructed to read the Book of Daniel to understand. It just so happens that one of the most important verses to unraveling the mystery of the Abomination of Desolation is in Daniel 11:31:

Daniel 11:31 - And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.

OK, so now we have one of the verses that Jesus was referencing. My question to you is how do you interpret the verse just prior?

Daniel 11:30 - For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.

If you are going to 'tell me' what the Abomination of Desolation is or is not, then surely you know precisely what the ships of Chittim are. You should also know who 'he' is and why 'he' is grieved. In fact, you should be able to break the verse into sections and interpret every bit of it with precision like I can.

Can you do that for me? Can anyone here do that? I am throwing this out as a challenge to anyone reading. All of you here need to prove that you have Daniel 11 interpreted properly before I, or anyone else for that matter, can believe what you say.



You are absolutely correct. But do you understand when, how and why? Are you able to use Scripture to prove it as I can?

Kittim are descendants of Javan from genesis 10:2-5, being one of the 'races' of the peoples in the world (aisian, slavic, saxxon, etc.). I don't know exactly who Kittim is now, but they're apparently a people with a strong navy.

But if you know you're not perfectly right, why insist that your words are so strong?

 

[Komentaja]

The only honest answer I can give you is to say that it is a conclusion that comes from much study - every separate passage must be discerned in the context of the passage while also being in agreement with scripture-as-a-whole.



The "fantasy" that I am referring to is the result of believing that every place where the 3.5-year equivalent number is given is talking about the very same span of time and events - and, further complicated by the believe that anything-and-everything in Revelation is part of this believed 'Tribulation Period'.

The "fantasy" that I am referring to is believing that 'pre-trib' [anything] is [even] possible when it is very easily shown to be literally impossible in scripture.

The "fantasy" is not being willing to let go of the complicated/complex invention that is 'pre-trib rapture' in order to see the simple painfully-obvious unmistakable truth that is clearly present in scripture.

Agreed, and nothing in Revelation even hints at it being years instead of days. Not all premillennialists believe in the pre-trib rapture, that is a dispensational belief but there is also historic premillennialism.

Please show me a place in Revelation where you see a 7-year prophetic span of time. If you will say "Well, the 7-year period is actually two 3.5-year periods back-to-back." - then, show me that/those. However, you must also show how that they are actual days.

I believe it is either 3,5 years or 7 years. Im not dogmatic on it because it can go either way in my opinion. All I need to do to show it is actual days is that the beast rules for 42 months, two witnesses prophecy for the same period and no mortal king can live 1260 years.

 

[cv5]

The only honest answer I can give you is to say that it is a conclusion that comes from much study - every separate passage must be discerned in the context of the passage while also being in agreement with scripture-as-a-whole.

What I said in post #116 is actually a conclusion from study and not an arbitrary starting assumption based on the use of the words.


Please show me a place in Revelation where you see a 7-year prophetic span of time. If you will say "Well, the 7-year period is actually two 3.5-year periods back-to-back." - then, show me that/those. However, you must also show how that they are actual days.

The "fantasy" that I am referring to is the result of believing that every place where the 3.5-year equivalent number is given is talking about the very same span of time and events - and, further complicated by the believe that anything-and-everything in Revelation is part of this believed 'Tribulation Period'.

The "fantasy" that I am referring to is believing that 'pre-trib' [anything] is [even] possible when it is very easily shown to be literally impossible in scripture.

The "fantasy" is not being willing to let go of the complicated/complex invention that is 'pre-trib rapture' in order to see the simple painfully-obvious unmistakable truth that is clearly present in scripture.

"The "fantasy" that I am referring to is believing that 'pre-trib' [anything] is [even] possible when it is very easily shown to be literally impossible in scripture.

The "fantasy" is not being willing to let go of the complicated/complex invention that is 'pre-trib rapture' in order to see the simple painfully-obvious unmistakable truth that is clearly present in scripture."

The pre-Tribulation harpazo is among the clearest, most definitive, and most firmly established doctrines in all of Scripture. It is thoroughly biblical—absolute boilerplate.

I find it compelling that those who fail to grasp this plainly established doctrine also tend to misunderstand much of the rest of biblical prophecy. They frequently fail, as well, to understand the identity, purpose, and prophetic significance of the nation of Israel.

It is one interpretive failure after another—and needlessly so.

 

[GaryA]

Common sense teaches us that 'many' is not 'all'. Moreover, we know from Revelation that the two resurrections mentioned do not happen on the same day as Daniel 12:2 implies.

Common sense also informs us that Daniel 12:2 implies a 'judgment' of some kind. Did such a thing actually occur in the 70 A.D. time frame?

Daniel 12:2 itself does not imply what particular event/time/day it occurs - other than in some sense of what I just mentioned...

The three verses you posted in post #106 are by no means necessarily referring to the exact same thing:

Mark 13:

19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

I am convinced beyond any doubt whatsoever that this is associated with 70 A.D. - because of the context of the passage - it is unmistakable.

Jeremiah 30:

7 Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it.

I believe 'that day' more likely describes a singular short-term 'event' - like Armageddon - rather than a 3+ year span of time.

Also - was the nation of Israel 'saved out of it' in the 70 A.D. time frame? I think not.

Also - look at the next few verses - did all of that happen in the 70 A.D. time frame?

Daniel 12:

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

Please note that this indicates a 'before' component but not an 'after' component of the relative comparison of 'trouble' - i.e. there is no 'neither shall be' aspect to it. I believe this is significant.

The next thing to consider is whether this means - that there will be a time of trouble after this event that will exceed the "amount/level of trouble" of this event - OR - that there is [literally] nothing after it to [even] compare to the "amount/level of trouble" of this event.

I lean in the direction of the latter.

Please note that the Olivet Discourse verses say "since creation" while Daniel 12:1 says 'since there was a nation'. I believe this has to be significant.

How does the word 'nation' fit into the context? The nation of Israel? The existence of any nation whatsoever? The continuous existence of a nation up to 'that same time'? A lot of discernment is required here.

Otherwise, the only way this makes any sense as applied to the 70 A.D. time frame is if 'thy people shall be delivered' is referring to those who headed for the mountains before all of the 'trouble' started - AND - there was a Judgment Day for all who had died previous to the New Covenant.

The 'pertinent' question becomes - just exactly who are the 'many' (but not all) who 'awake'? (some saved, some lost)

(Could say more but gonna stop here - mainly just want to give you something to think about.)

 

[Omegatime]

"Long story short, the Israelites were *nourishing* their freshly conceived Messiah for 1260 years until he was born."

Correction:
The Exodus occurred about 1603BC. And the first tabernacle was erected almost exactly one year later. So 1260 years to Christ is no Bueno.

Even the standard but erroneous Bible chronology puts the Exodus at 1446BC.

And your nonsensical assertion that Revelation has actionable content dated to Abraham is hilariously wrong. Everything after chapter 5 happens post-rapture!

--------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont disagree with you often but the Exodus date from simple math starting in Gen 5 takes us to year 1656 from Adam.

 

[Omegatime]

cv5--I am wrong in post 136. Too early in the morning.

Flood date was 1656

Exodus date was 2553

From the Exodus date to the Christ was 1447 years

 

[Researcher]

Kittim are descendants of Javan from genesis 10:2-5, being one of the 'races' of the peoples in the world (aisian, slavic, saxxon, etc.). I don't know exactly who Kittim is now, but they're apparently a people with a strong navy.

The Ships of Chittim in Daniel 11:30 are often interpreted as Roman ships:



However, most "scholars" wrongly attribute them to the time of Antiochus IV Epiphanes. Daniel 11:30 is actually referring to the Battle of Actium with Mark Antony and Cleopatra VII:

But if you know you're not perfectly right, why insist that your words are so strong?

I don't believe anyone has Daniel properly interpreted one hundred percent, that includes me. I do believe however that I am closer than anyone so far by a very large margin. The reason is because I have painstakingly gone over the Book of Daniel, verse by verse, to verify who has the most accurate commentaries. It turns out that most of these so called "scholars" are just parroting whatever others are saying. They are a bunch of copycats that never bothered to double check their work. As a result, their interpretations contradict many passages in the rest of the Bible.

Daniel 11 is where they blew it bigly. I would say that most scholars got verses one through ten accurately translated for the most part. After that, there is a schism. By verse 20, interpretations become complete fantasy with some splitting Daniel 11 in half and hurling the interpretations into some future time period that hasn't even happened yet (and never will):



The Seventh Day Adventists recognized that Rome, aka the Sixth Head, aka the Little Horn of Daniel 8, had to fit into Daniel 11 somewhere. Unfortunately, their incessant over the top hatred for the Papacy has caused them to err and so they made it all about the Popes instead of Octavian and King Herod.

It is an absolute atrocity what the interpreters have done with Daniel, so yeah, it kind of makes me mad that we have all been lied to in such a huge manner and yet no one is doing anything to make corrections except me apparently. I have the world's most thankless job right now.

 

[Researcher]

For those just joining the thread, here is a quick summary of how I interpret some of the later verses in Daniel 11. Note that I may make a few minor changes before I freely publish my final PowerPoint.

Daniel 11:13
This is the end of Antiochus III who was the King of the North during his time.

Daniel 11:14
Antiochus IV Epiphanes becomes the new King of the North.

Daniel 11:19
This is the end of Antiochus IV Epiphanes and the Seleucid Empire. However, this is *NOT* the end of the King of the North.

Daniel 11:20
This is the beginning of the Little Horn of Daniel 8, who is also the Sixth Head of the Beast. Thus, this is also the beginning of the Roman Empire. The first King of the North during this time was Julius Caesar who ruled as dictator for life (dictator perpetuo) for only about one to two months. He was granted the title between late January and mid-February in 44 BC and was assassinated on March 15, 44 BC (the Ides of March).

Daniel 11:21
After Julius Caesar is assassinated, in his estate stands Octavian/Augustus who becomes the latest King of the North.

Daniel 11:22
This verse describes the Roman Empire conquering as the Terrible Beast. The 'Prince of the Covenant' is of course Jesus Christ who will be broken, i.e., Crucified during this time.

Daniel 11:23
A league is made between the Roman Senate and Herod who shall come up and be strong with a 'small people' to become 'King of the Jews'.

Daniel 11:24
This verse is all about King Herod who used his vast wealth and power to lavish gifts on his followers, foreign dignitaries, and Roman patrons to secure their loyalty and cement his political influence. King Herod fortified strategic strongholds (such as the Antonia Fortress in Jerusalem) to protect himself against his own subjects, external threats, and political rivals for the entirety of his reign.

Daniel 11:25
Octavian, King of the North, and Mark Antony, King of the South, go to war in the Battle of Actium.

Daniel 11:26
Mark Antony is famously betrayed. He loses the Battle of Actium.

Daniel 11:27
I will let AI interpret this one. Hey Mr. AI. Did Octavian and Mark Antony speak lies at one table?



Daniel 11:28
After the Battle of Actium, Octavian returns to his land with great riches. Also, King Herod returns and IS AGAINST THE HOLY COVENANT.

Daniel 11:29
The Battle of Actium is not like the former or latter. It is the beginning of the Roman Emperors. It is the end of the King of the North and King of the South battles. This ended the Roman Republic and started the Roman Empire. Yeah, kind of a big deal.

Daniel 11:30
The Ships of Chittim not only came against Mark Antony, but they came against King Herod who backed Antony. Now King Herod has to grovel to Octavian to keep his title as 'King of the Jews'. He has intelligence with those AGAINST THE HOLY COVENANT.

Daniel 11:31
Roman arms shall stand on King Herod's part. King Herod’s expansion of the Temple (c. 20 BCE – 64 CE) was viewed as blasphemous and illegitimate by certain Jewish groups, despite its incredible beauty and scale. While many appreciated the magnificent upgrade, critics viewed the project as a sacrilegious act perpetrated by a tyrant rather than a pious act of a legitimate king. A Roman eagle was erected. This act sparked fierce religious protests and a daring raid by pious Jewish students who chopped the eagle down, leading to severe executions by Herod just before his death.

Daniel 11:32
King Herod and the Herodian dynasty will corrupt those who do wickedly AGAINST THE HOLY COVENANT. But the PEOPLE WHO KNOW THEIR GOD, AKA JESUS, will be strong and do exploits. Get it?

Daniel 11:33
Enter the Apostles and Disciples of Christ. This is an incredible prophecy hidden in plain sight IN THE OLD TESTAMENT! They will instruct many, obviously.

Daniel 11:34
Do I even have to mention Judas Iscariot here? You people should know all of this already!

Daniel 11:35
Who is it who purges and makes white? Antiochus IV Epiphanes? The Antichrist? Come on folks, wake up!

Daniel 11:36
The King is King Herod. The 'indignation' is his Massacre of the Innocents. This event fulfils an old prophecy:

Matthew 2:16-18 - Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men. Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

If anyone reading this is shedding a tear, congratulations, you get it.

 

[cv5]

For those just joining the thread, here is a quick summary of how I interpret some of the later verses in Daniel 11. Note that I may make a few minor changes before I freely publish my final PowerPoint.

Daniel 11:13
This is the end of Antiochus III who was the King of the North during his time.

Daniel 11:14
Antiochus IV Epiphanes becomes the new King of the North.

Daniel 11:19
This is the end of Antiochus IV Epiphanes and the Seleucid Empire. However, this is *NOT* the end of the King of the North.

Daniel 11:20
This is the beginning of the Little Horn of Daniel 8, who is also the Sixth Head of the Beast. Thus, this is also the beginning of the Roman Empire. The first King of the North during this time was Julius Caesar who ruled as dictator for life (dictator perpetuo) for only about one to two months. He was granted the title between late January and mid-February in 44 BC and was assassinated on March 15, 44 BC (the Ides of March).

Daniel 11:21
After Julius Caesar is assassinated, in his estate stands Octavian/Augustus who becomes the latest King of the North.

Daniel 11:22
This verse describes the Roman Empire conquering as the Terrible Beast. The 'Prince of the Covenant' is of course Jesus Christ who will be broken, i.e., Crucified during this time.

Daniel 11:23
A league is made between the Roman Senate and Herod who shall come up and be strong with a 'small people' to become 'King of the Jews'.

Daniel 11:24
This verse is all about King Herod who used his vast wealth and power to lavish gifts on his followers, foreign dignitaries, and Roman patrons to secure their loyalty and cement his political influence. King Herod fortified strategic strongholds (such as the Antonia Fortress in Jerusalem) to protect himself against his own subjects, external threats, and political rivals for the entirety of his reign.

Daniel 11:25
Octavian, King of the North, and Mark Antony, King of the South, go to war in the Battle of Actium.

Daniel 11:26
Mark Antony is famously betrayed. He loses the Battle of Actium.

Daniel 11:27
I will let AI interpret this one. Hey Mr. AI. Did Octavian and Mark Antony speak lies at one table?

View attachment 293755

Daniel 11:28
After the Battle of Actium, Octavian returns to his land with great riches. Also, King Herod returns and IS AGAINST THE HOLY COVENANT.

Daniel 11:29
The Battle of Actium is not like the former or latter. It is the beginning of the Roman Emperors. It is the end of the King of the North and King of the South battles. This ended the Roman Republic and started the Roman Empire. Yeah, kind of a big deal.

Daniel 11:30
The Ships of Chittim not only came against Mark Antony, but they came against King Herod who backed Antony. Now King Herod has to grovel to Octavian to keep his title as 'King of the Jews'. He has intelligence with those AGAINST THE HOLY COVENANT.

Daniel 11:31
Roman arms shall stand on King Herod's part. King Herod’s expansion of the Temple (c. 20 BCE – 64 CE) was viewed as blasphemous and illegitimate by certain Jewish groups, despite its incredible beauty and scale. While many appreciated the magnificent upgrade, critics viewed the project as a sacrilegious act perpetrated by a tyrant rather than a pious act of a legitimate king. A Roman eagle was erected. This act sparked fierce religious protests and a daring raid by pious Jewish students who chopped the eagle down, leading to severe executions by Herod just before his death.

Daniel 11:32
King Herod and the Herodian dynasty will corrupt those who do wickedly AGAINST THE HOLY COVENANT. But the PEOPLE WHO KNOW THEIR GOD, AKA JESUS, will be strong and do exploits. Get it?

Daniel 11:33
Enter the Apostles and Disciples of Christ. This is an incredible prophecy hidden in plain sight IN THE OLD TESTAMENT! They will instruct many, obviously.

Daniel 11:34
Do I even have to mention Judas Iscariot here? You people should know all of this already!

Daniel 11:35
Who is it who purges and makes white? Antiochus IV Epiphanes? The Antichrist? Come on folks, wake up!

Daniel 11:36
The King is King Herod. The 'indignation' is his Massacre of the Innocents. This event fulfils an old prophecy:



If anyone reading this is shedding a tear, congratulations, you get it.

In his comprehensive eschatological work, The Footsteps of the Messiah, Dr. Arnold Fruchtenbaum argues that the city of Babylon must be literally rebuilt on the Euphrates River in modern-day Iraq to serve as the political and economic capital of the Antichrist during the Tribulation.

Fruchtenbaum bases this conclusion on a strict, literal interpretation of the prophecies found in Isaiah 13–14 and Jeremiah 50–51. His primary argument is that the historical fall of Babylon in 539 B.C. did not fulfill the specific details of these prophecies. Because biblical prophecy must be fulfilled exactly as written, Babylon must rise again so it can be destroyed exactly as the prophets declared.

Here is how Fruchtenbaum exegetes the demands of Isaiah and Jeremiah regarding a rebuilt Babylon:

1. The Prophesied Manner of Destruction (Sodom and Gomorrah)
Both prophets state that Babylon's ultimate destruction will be sudden, catastrophic, and total—specifically comparing it to the fiery overthrow of Sodom and Gomorrah.
* Isaiah 13:19: "And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah."
* Jeremiah 50:40: "As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein."
Fruchtenbaum’s Historical Argument: When the Medes and Persians conquered Babylon in 539 B.C. under Cyrus the Great, they did not destroy the city. They diverted the Euphrates River, waded under the gates, and took the city intact without a battle. Babylon continued to be a functioning, populated city for centuries. Alexander the Great even died there, intending to make it his eastern capital. Therefore, Babylon has never been destroyed in the manner of Sodom and Gomorrah.

2. The Prophecy of Absolute Desolation
Isaiah and Jeremiah prophesied that once Babylon is destroyed, it will never be inhabited again, not even temporarily by nomads.
* Isaiah 13:20: "It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there."
Fruchtenbaum’s Historical Argument: History contradicts this if the 539 B.C. conquest was the fulfillment. People lived in Babylon well into the New Testament era (the Apostle Peter wrote his first epistle from there, 1 Peter 5:13). Furthermore, Arabs have pitched their tents in the ruins for centuries, and nearby villages have utilized the surrounding land.

3. The Prophecy Regarding Building Materials
Jeremiah gets highly specific about the physical ruins of the city.
* Jeremiah 51:26: "And they shall not take of thee a stone for a corner, nor a stone for foundations; but thou shalt be desolate for ever, saith the LORD."
Fruchtenbaum’s Historical Argument: After Babylon slowly decayed over the centuries, its bricks and stones were extensively scavenged. The building materials of ancient Babylon were carted off and used to build several surrounding towns, including the modern Iraqi cities of Hilla and Baghdad. Because Jeremiah prophesied that its stones would never be reused, the prophecy remains unfulfilled.

4. The Context of "The Day of the Lord"
Isaiah explicitly places the destruction of Babylon within the context of the end-times Day of the Lord, a period of global judgment.
* Isaiah 13:6, 9: "Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand... Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate..."
Fruchtenbaum’s Conclusion: The destruction described in Isaiah 13 is accompanied by cosmic disturbances (stars not giving light, the sun darkened—Isaiah 13:10), which perfectly parallels Jesus' teachings on the Tribulation (Matthew 24) and the judgments in Revelation.
Summary of Fruchtenbaum's View
For Fruchtenbaum, God cannot lie, and prophecy cannot be merely spiritualized or allegorized. Because the ancient city of Babylon slowly decayed rather than suffering a sudden, fiery catastrophe, and because its bricks were reused and its land traveled upon, Babylon must be rebuilt.
In his timeline, this rebuilt Babylon will become the headquarters of the Antichrist's global empire. At the very end of the seven-year Tribulation, God will pour out His final wrath on the city, destroying it instantly and permanently (as detailed in Revelation 18), thereby perfectly fulfilling the ancient prophecies of Isaiah and Jeremiah.