definition of faith

[randyk]

Luther, I think, defines "Works" as "works that justify." He does not reject doing good or keeping the 10 Commandments. These are not part of what he defines as "works that justify." Rather, they are deeds that result *after Salvation,* and not a *means to get Saved.*

So, defining "Works" as "religious works designed to self-justify, or to get Saved" is not part of True Faith. True Faith Saves by the redemption of Christ and his Works alone. But it does not rely on Works to "get Saved."

I do think there are Works we can do as steps towards getting Salvation from Christ. But these Works are not "earning" Salvation, but rather, responding to Christ's Word, or offer of Salvation.

It is the choice, on our part, to receive his Salvation, which entails a rejection of all Works done apart from Christ in order to do Works only through him. It is, in effect, choosing to cast our whole life into the hands of Christ, becoming his possession, and committing ourselves completely to his Work.

Most of us understand this, but are utterly unable to explain Luther's resistance to James' definition of True Faith, which includes Works. The only way I can explain it is by recognizing Luther had a different definition of "Works" than James did.

Luther saw "Works" as defined by Works that justify, while relegating other kinds of legitimate Christian Works as separate from this category. And so, he would rightly separate this illegitimate form of self-justifying Works from a true definition of Faith.

James did not have the same concern, but was rather concerned not to separate legitimate Christian Works from a definition of true Christian Faith. And so, Luther and James had different definitions for the same words, creating some confusion in many.

Unfortunately, this has led some to believe that even our choice for Christ and our repentance from sin are illegitimate forms of self-justifying Works, though they are not. Just believing in Christ is viewed, biblically, as a Work. But it is not thereby treated as a self-justifying Work, but rather, as a legitimate choice to accept Christ's redemption.

 

[Watchman22]

Luther, I think, defines "Works" as "works that justify." He does not reject doing good or keeping the 10 Commandments. These are not part of what he defines as "works that justify." Rather, they are deeds that result *after Salvation,* and not a *means to get Saved.*

So, defining "Works" as "religious works designed to self-justify, or to get Saved" is not part of True Faith. True Faith Saves by the redemption of Christ and his Works alone. But it does not rely on Works to "get Saved."

I do think there are Works we can do as steps towards getting Salvation from Christ. But these Works are not "earning" Salvation, but rather, responding to Christ's Word, or offer of Salvation.

It is the choice, on our part, to receive his Salvation, which entails a rejection of all Works done apart from Christ in order to do Works only through him. It is, in effect, choosing to cast our whole life into the hands of Christ, becoming his possession, and committing ourselves completely to his Work.

Most of us understand this, but are utterly unable to explain Luther's resistance to James' definition of True Faith, which includes Works. The only way I can explain it is by recognizing Luther had a different definition of "Works" than James did.

Luther saw "Works" as defined by Works that justify, while relegating other kinds of legitimate Christian Works as separate from this category. And so, he would rightly separate this illegitimate form of self-justifying Works from a true definition of Faith.

James did not have the same concern, but was rather concerned not to separate legitimate Christian Works from a definition of true Christian Faith. And so, Luther and James had different definitions for the same words, creating some confusion in many.

Unfortunately, this has led some to believe that even our choice for Christ and our repentance from sin are illegitimate forms of self-justifying Works, though they are not. Just believing in Christ is viewed, biblically, as a Work. But it is not thereby treated as a self-justifying Work, but rather, as a legitimate choice to accept Christ's redemption.

The definition of Faith, pistis in the Greek is a firm conviction, reliance upon. Used 245 times.

Definition of the corresponding verb pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Used 248 times.

 

[Dino246]

Most of us understand this, but are utterly unable to explain Luther's resistance to James' definition of True Faith, which includes Works. The only way I can explain it is by recognizing Luther had a different definition of "Works" than James did.

Faith is defined clearly in Hebrews 11:1

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see (NIV).

 

[Soyeong]

Luther, I think, defines "Works" as "works that justify." He does not reject doing good or keeping the 10 Commandments. These are not part of what he defines as "works that justify." Rather, they are deeds that result *after Salvation,* and not a *means to get Saved.*

So, defining "Works" as "religious works designed to self-justify, or to get Saved" is not part of True Faith. True Faith Saves by the redemption of Christ and his Works alone. But it does not rely on Works to "get Saved."

I do think there are Works we can do as steps towards getting Salvation from Christ. But these Works are not "earning" Salvation, but rather, responding to Christ's Word, or offer of Salvation.

It is the choice, on our part, to receive his Salvation, which entails a rejection of all Works done apart from Christ in order to do Works only through him. It is, in effect, choosing to cast our whole life into the hands of Christ, becoming his possession, and committing ourselves completely to his Work.

Most of us understand this, but are utterly unable to explain Luther's resistance to James' definition of True Faith, which includes Works. The only way I can explain it is by recognizing Luther had a different definition of "Works" than James did.

Luther saw "Works" as defined by Works that justify, while relegating other kinds of legitimate Christian Works as separate from this category. And so, he would rightly separate this illegitimate form of self-justifying Works from a true definition of Faith.

James did not have the same concern, but was rather concerned not to separate legitimate Christian Works from a definition of true Christian Faith. And so, Luther and James had different definitions for the same words, creating some confusion in many.

Unfortunately, this has led some to believe that even our choice for Christ and our repentance from sin are illegitimate forms of self-justifying Works, though they are not. Just believing in Christ is viewed, biblically, as a Work. But it is not thereby treated as a self-justifying Work, but rather, as a legitimate choice to accept Christ's redemption.

Luther said that an idle faith is not a justifying faith.

There are no self-justifying works. We can't earn our righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God because it was never given as a way of earning our righteousness in the first place (Romans 4:1-5), but rather it was give to describe the life of a righteous person as it describes the life of Christ, so it is what we get to experience being a doer of by being given the gift of righteousness through faith. For example, the Law of God reveals that it is righteous to be a doer of doer of charity, but no amount of charity will ever cause someone to become righteous as the result, rather becoming a doer of charity is part of what it means to become righteous.

We can do works that embody our faith, such as with the examples of faith listed in Hebrews 11 or with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works, so the significance of being doer of the Law of God has nothing to do with trying to justify ourselves as the result, but rather the significance is that it is the way to embody our faith and it is by that faith alone apart from works done to earn it was the result that we are declared righteous. While Paul denied in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our works, he also affirmed in Romans 2:13 that only the doers of the law will be declared righteous, so there is a reason why our righteousness requires us to choose to be doers of the law other than in order to earn it as a wage, namely faith insofar as the faith by which we are declared righteous also upholds the Law of God (Romans 3:28-31). In Romans 3:28-31, we are declared righteous by faith alone apart from being required to have first done enough righteous works in order to earn it as the result, but we are not declared faith alone apart from becoming a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God.

While it is true that Abraham was declared righteous because he believed God (Genesis 15:6) it is also true that he was a doer of righteous works because he believed God (Genesis 18:19) and that he obeyed the command to offer Isaac because he believed God (Hebrews 11:17), so the faith by which he was declared righteous was also embodied through his works, but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his works (Romans 4:1-5). In James 2:21-24, it quotes Genesis 15:6 to support saying that that Abraham was declared righteous by his works when he offered Isaac, that his faith was active along with his works, and his faith completed his works, so he was declared righteous by his works insofar as they embodied his faith but not insofar as they were earning it a s wage. We become someone who has faith, someone who will be declared righteous, and someone who is a doer of the law all as the same time and anyone who is not one of those is also not the others, but we do not become righteous as the result of our obedience.

 

[randyk]

Luther said that an idle faith is not a justifying faith.

There are no self-justifying works. We can't earn our righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God because it was never given as a way of earning our righteousness in the first place (Romans 4:1-5), but rather it was give to describe the life of a righteous person as it describes the life of Christ, so it is what we get to experience being a doer of by being given the gift of righteousness through faith. For example, the Law of God reveals that it is righteous to be a doer of doer of charity, but no amount of charity will ever cause someone to become righteous as the result, rather becoming a doer of charity is part of what it means to become righteous.

I was with you up to here. How can you say that "no amount of charity will ever cause someone to become righteous as the result?" It most certainly does!

We can do works that embody our faith, such as with the examples of faith listed in Hebrews 11 or with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works, so the significance of being doer of the Law of God has nothing to do with trying to justify ourselves as the result, but rather the significance is that it is the way to embody our faith and it is by that faith alone apart from works done to earn it was the result that we are declared righteous.

"Emboding faith" is equal to having faith "with works." They are just not self-justifying works, as you said initially. Justification here is used not in the sense of "validation," but rather, in the sense of earning Eternal Life. We can validate our faith with works, but we cannot earn Eternal Life with them. We can only indirectly obtain Eternal Life by validating our faith with works of repentance.

While Paul denied in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our works,...

Let me stop you here because otherwise it can get confusing. Paul would here be defining "righteousness" as "eternal righteousness." We certainly obtain a claim to righteousness by doing works. We just can't obtain a claim to "eternal righteousness" by doing works. Our works must express that we've abandoned our self-life for a life in partnership with Christ, deferring to him as Lord.

 

[randyk]

Faith is defined clearly in Hebrews 11:1

Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see (NIV).

Yes, agreed. But my point is that True Faith is defined by the work of faith and by the work of choosing repentance. That is, we choose to do our works through Christ, and not on our own. This is True Faith--not just hope and asssurance about the invisible, but a genuine expression evident in a changed life.

 

[randyk]

The definition of Faith, pistis in the Greek is a firm conviction, reliance upon. Used 245 times.

Definition of the corresponding verb pisteuo is a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. Used 248 times.

Yes, faith includes works, but those works are unique. They are called "repentance," which is a surrender of self-sufficient Man to a Man dependent on God. God speaks a Word to us, and the work we do is to choose to accept it and to act on it.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Luther, I think, defines "Works" as "works that justify." He does not reject doing good or keeping the 10 Commandments. These are not part of what he defines as "works that justify." Rather, they are deeds that result *after Salvation,* and not a *means to get Saved.*

So, defining "Works" as "religious works designed to self-justify, or to get Saved" is not part of True Faith. True Faith Saves by the redemption of Christ and his Works alone. But it does not rely on Works to "get Saved."

I do think there are Works we can do as steps towards getting Salvation from Christ. But these Works are not "earning" Salvation, but rather, responding to Christ's Word, or offer of Salvation.

It is the choice, on our part, to receive his Salvation, which entails a rejection of all Works done apart from Christ in order to do Works only through him. It is, in effect, choosing to cast our whole life into the hands of Christ, becoming his possession, and committing ourselves completely to his Work.

Most of us understand this, but are utterly unable to explain Luther's resistance to James' definition of True Faith, which includes Works. The only way I can explain it is by recognizing Luther had a different definition of "Works" than James did.

Luther saw "Works" as defined by Works that justify, while relegating other kinds of legitimate Christian Works as separate from this category. And so, he would rightly separate this illegitimate form of self-justifying Works from a true definition of Faith.

James did not have the same concern, but was rather concerned not to separate legitimate Christian Works from a definition of true Christian Faith. And so, Luther and James had different definitions for the same words, creating some confusion in many.

Unfortunately, this has led some to believe that even our choice for Christ and our repentance from sin are illegitimate forms of self-justifying Works, though they are not. Just believing in Christ is viewed, biblically, as a Work. But it is not thereby treated as a self-justifying Work, but rather, as a legitimate choice to accept Christ's redemption.

It’s important to begin with the belief that God exists and that he rewards those who diligently seek him.
“But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭11:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This is true of Gods character

“Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

and repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭7:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I’m not sure where the idea came from but with God it’s always the same formula oit actions will be judged and will determine our results at judgement

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: to them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

but unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; but glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: for there is no respect of persons with God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:5-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s hard to think those people receiving wrath indignation tribulation and anguish are “ saved “ along with those who receive honor glory and eternal life In the other group .

“Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: but in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:34-35

Often I don’t even think here that people would agree on what they are being “saved “from

 

[Soyeong]

I was with you up to here. How can you say that "no amount of charity will ever cause someone to become righteous as the result?" It most certainly does!

"Emboding faith" is equal to having faith "with works." They are just not self-justifying works, as you said initially. Justification here is used not in the sense of "validation," but rather, in the sense of earning Eternal Life. We can validate our faith with works, but we cannot earn Eternal Life with them. We can only indirectly obtain Eternal Life by validating our faith with works of repentance.

Let me stop you here because otherwise it can get confusing. Paul would here be defining "righteousness" as "eternal righteousness." We certainly obtain a claim to righteousness by doing works. We just can't obtain a claim to "eternal righteousness" by doing works. Our works must express that we've abandoned our self-life for a life in partnership with Christ, deferring to him as Lord.

In Romans 4:1-5, it is pretty direct that we can't earn our righteousness even as the result of having perfect obedience to the Law of God. Righteousness, salvation, and eternal life are not things that can be earned but rather they are gifts that are experienced through faith. The content of a gift can be the experience of doing something, such as giving someone the opportunity to experience driving a Ferrari, where the gift intrinsically requires them to do the work of driving it in order to have the experience of driving it, but where doing that work contributes nothing towards earning it as the result.

In Luke 10:25-28, Jesus affirmed that the way to inherit eternal life is by obeying the greatest two commandments, and something that we inherit is a gift, so he was speaking about what is intrinsically required to experience the gift of eternal life, not about the way to be good enough to earn it. In Titus 2:11-13, the content of our gift of salvation is described as being trained by grace to do what is godly, righteous, and good, and to renounce doing what is ungodly, so we are not extrinsically required to have first done enough of those works in obedience to the Law of God in order to earn our salvation as the result and we are not extrinsically required to do those works as the result of having first been saved, but rather we are intrinsically required to be a doer of those works because God graciously teaching us to experience being a doer of those works is part of the content of His gift of salvation. The experience of getting be a doer of righteous works in obedience to the Law of God is the content of the gift of righteousness.

Where does the Bible discuss the distinction between righteousness and eternal righteousness?

 

[timf]

Faith = That in which one trusts

 

[GWH]

Luther, I think, defines "Works" as "works that justify." He does not reject doing good or keeping the 10 Commandments. These are not part of what he defines as "works that justify." Rather, they are deeds that result *after Salvation,* and not a *means to get Saved.*

So, defining "Works" as "religious works designed to self-justify, or to get Saved" is not part of True Faith. True Faith Saves by the redemption of Christ and his Works alone. But it does not rely on Works to "get Saved."

I do think there are Works we can do as steps towards getting Salvation from Christ. But these Works are not "earning" Salvation, but rather, responding to Christ's Word, or offer of Salvation.

It is the choice, on our part, to receive his Salvation, which entails a rejection of all Works done apart from Christ in order to do Works only through him. It is, in effect, choosing to cast our whole life into the hands of Christ, becoming his possession, and committing ourselves completely to his Work.

Most of us understand this, but are utterly unable to explain Luther's resistance to James' definition of True Faith, which includes Works. The only way I can explain it is by recognizing Luther had a different definition of "Works" than James did.

Luther saw "Works" as defined by Works that justify, while relegating other kinds of legitimate Christian Works as separate from this category. And so, he would rightly separate this illegitimate form of self-justifying Works from a true definition of Faith.

James did not have the same concern, but was rather concerned not to separate legitimate Christian Works from a definition of true Christian Faith. And so, Luther and James had different definitions for the same words, creating some confusion in many.

Unfortunately, this has led some to believe that even our choice for Christ and our repentance from sin are illegitimate forms of self-justifying Works, though they are not. Just believing in Christ is viewed, biblically, as a Work. But it is not thereby treated as a self-justifying Work, but rather, as a legitimate choice to accept Christ's redemption.

I completely agree with your understanding of godly/loving works as manifesting saving faith/fruit of the HS
(Eph. 2:8-10, Gal. 5:22-23 & 5:6).

 

[Suze]

Faith is when things r not going your way at all and , instead of panicking and desperately clinging on to the things of this world and trying to save yourself or find a worldy solution , u pray to God to help u and show u the right way to handle things and then , most importantly , u wait . We humans r not good at waiting , we want everything fixed right now . How many times throughout old and new r we instructed ; wait upon the Lord . If we ask for His help then we must believe , that He hears us and that He will help us . So , we have to wait , faith is giving our problems to God and believing that He will help us and waiting patiently for Him to sort it / show us the way to sort it , in a manner that is acceptable and in accordance with Bible principles . Wait on the Lord , very hard to do if u feel as if your world is crumbling .

 

[Dino246]

We can do works that embody our faith, such as with the examples of faith listed in Hebrews 11 or with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works, so the significance of being doer of the Law of God has nothing to do with trying to justify ourselves as the result, but rather the significance is that it is the way to embody our faith and it is by that faith alone apart from works done to earn it was the result that we are declared righteous.

Most of the people listed in Hebrews 11 did not demonstrate faith by works of the law. That means your argument is moot.

 

[homwardbound]

Luther, I think, defines "Works" as "works that justify." He does not reject doing good or keeping the 10 Commandments. These are not part of what he defines as "works that justify." Rather, they are deeds that result *after Salvation,* and not a *means to get Saved.*

So, defining "Works" as "religious works designed to self-justify, or to get Saved" is not part of True Faith. True Faith Saves by the redemption of Christ and his Works alone. But it does not rely on Works to "get Saved."

I do think there are Works we can do as steps towards getting Salvation from Christ. But these Works are not "earning" Salvation, but rather, responding to Christ's Word, or offer of Salvation.

It is the choice, on our part, to receive his Salvation, which entails a rejection of all Works done apart from Christ in order to do Works only through him. It is, in effect, choosing to cast our whole life into the hands of Christ, becoming his possession, and committing ourselves completely to his Work.

Most of us understand this, but are utterly unable to explain Luther's resistance to James' definition of True Faith, which includes Works. The only way I can explain it is by recognizing Luther had a different definition of "Works" than James did.

Luther saw "Works" as defined by Works that justify, while relegating other kinds of legitimate Christian Works as separate from this category. And so, he would rightly separate this illegitimate form of self-justifying Works from a true definition of Faith.

James did not have the same concern, but was rather concerned not to separate legitimate Christian Works from a definition of true Christian Faith. And so, Luther and James had different definitions for the same words, creating some confusion in many.

Unfortunately, this has led some to believe that even our choice for Christ and our repentance from sin are illegitimate forms of self-justifying Works, though they are not. Just believing in Christ is viewed, biblically, as a Work. But it is not thereby treated as a self-justifying Work, but rather, as a legitimate choice to accept Christ's redemption.

I see works follow faith given one, anyone that is sincere in belief to God raising Son from the dead. Sees at least begins to.
The done work of Son leads through people that stand in belief to Col 1:21-23. Me, I have come to know this is truth, not have to believe it, or that I have to make me right with God or religions or other people.
God did it by Son, it is done (John 19:30) to be new in the risen life of Son leading through me, you, you, you and you too, thank you Lord. I see you desire mercy and truth in love to all as you did with Son for all first John 13:34

 

[Watchman22]

Yes, faith includes works, but those works are unique. They are called "repentance," which is a surrender of self-sufficient Man to a Man dependent on God. God speaks a Word to us, and the work we do is to choose to accept it and to act on it.

i think were in the same stadium, just sitting on opposite sides of the field.

Yes, repentance takes work and effort.

The Father calls us out, we respond by the turning from our way to the way of the caller. That's repentance. We then need to choose if we're going to take a step towards the caller. That correct step of NT saving faith can only be one thing, A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. This step of faith also takes work and effort.

Faith being a personal surrender to Him "AND" living a life inspired by such surrender, We then start to make decisions that show God we really have surrendered our life over to Him. These decisions are all the normal daily decisions, but instead of those decisions benefiting us in the temporal world, those decisions start to benefit a new life He is attempting to build with you, This also takes work and effort. And, the best decisions we make a lot of the time hurt us in the flesh. God puts those opportunities in front of us to test us and our surrendered life.

Eventually, after he accepts our first surrender as genuine, and our surrendered life has been tested, He puts in us His spirit and His mind through the one with all power and authority, Jesus, the anointed messiah. at this point we still have to choose this surrendered life along with the daily decisions, but at this point it is harder to get out of His will, than it is to stay in it.

With all this said, I'm sensing we're saying kind of the same thing with different words. That's rare for me so i hope I'm right.

 

[rewriter]

Faith is an action, not merely belief. Remember, the demons BELIEVE and tremble. If one's faith does not lead to a change in lifestyle towards a more godly one, it would be correct to ask whether or not it is a true faith, that is, is the faith both real and strong enough to force a change inthe individual as opposed to mere intellectual assent to a set of statements.

 

[GWH]

Faith is an action, not merely belief. Remember, the demons BELIEVE and tremble. If one's faith does not lead to a change in lifestyle towards a more godly one, it would be correct to ask whether or not it is a true faith, that is, is the faith both real and strong enough to force a change inthe individual as opposed to mere intellectual assent to a set of statements.

I agree that saving faith is not mere belief (Jam. 2:19), but I think it is more accurate to view faith as will to action (MFW)
or motivation rather than the action or work itself (Heb. 4:12-13).

 

[randyk]

i think were in the same stadium, just sitting on opposite sides of the field.

Yes, repentance takes work and effort.

The Father calls us out, we respond by the turning from our way to the way of the caller. That's repentance. We then need to choose if we're going to take a step towards the caller. That correct step of NT saving faith can only be one thing, A personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender. This step of faith also takes work and effort.

Faith being a personal surrender to Him "AND" living a life inspired by such surrender, We then start to make decisions that show God we really have surrendered our life over to Him. These decisions are all the normal daily decisions, but instead of those decisions benefiting us in the temporal world, those decisions start to benefit a new life He is attempting to build with you, This also takes work and effort. And, the best decisions we make a lot of the time hurt us in the flesh. God puts those opportunities in front of us to test us and our surrendered life.

Eventually, after he accepts our first surrender as genuine, and our surrendered life has been tested, He puts in us His spirit and His mind through the one with all power and authority, Jesus, the anointed messiah. at this point we still have to choose this surrendered life along with the daily decisions, but at this point it is harder to get out of His will, than it is to stay in it.

With all this said, I'm sensing we're saying kind of the same thing with different words. That's rare for me so i hope I'm right.

Yes, there's a lot of agreement in what we're sharing. There may be some nuanced arguments one way or another, though I'm not sure?

You say that after we surrender to God and have been tested God puts in us His spirit and mind through Jesus. I'm not sure if you wish to make this a timetable sequence or not?

I see our surrender to Christ as simultaneous to God putting His Spirit in us. After all, it is God's Word that initially comes to us, requiring submission and repentance. At the instant we respond to it we are already agreeing with God's Spirit and can receive the Holy Spirit.

It's just that there are all kinds of levels of knowledge about this, and the sequence often seems to be flawed in various ways. But overall, we're agreed--that we surrender to God when He calls upon us, with the result that we prove our obedience and receive His Spirit.

It is, in fact, easier to stay in God's will once we've completely surrendered to God and have received a New Nature. It is not just in receiving His Spirit, but in receiving a New Nature, which is more of a complete capitulation to God's ways than a piecemeal deal, giving some to God today and some to our own independence tomorrow.

When we choose for a New Nature we embrace God as the only right Way for our lives. This choice itself results in our obtaining a New Nature from God, along with the Spirit who is producing and leading it.

 

[randyk]

I see works follow faith given one, anyone that is sincere in belief to God raising Son from the dead. Sees at least begins to.
The done work of Son leads through people that stand in belief to Col 1:21-23. Me, I have come to know this is truth, not have to believe it, or that I have to make me right with God or religions or other people.
God did it by Son, it is done (John 19:30) to be new in the risen life of Son leading through me, you, you, you and you too, thank you Lord. I see you desire mercy and truth in love to all as you did with Son for all first John 13:34

Yes, Works follow genuine Faith. You do have to do good Works if you wish to prove your Faith is real. What good is it to respond to God's word that calls you to repentance if you don't repent? What kind of Faith is that?

But yes, when the Son is in your life, he is the one who provides it--we juat have to let it become real in our life. As you say, we have to "come to know this is truth." It is more than belief, but if we do believe we should experience the works of Christ that is promised us through our faith and repentant spirit.

 

[homwardbound]

You do have to do good Works if you wish to prove your Faith is real.

seriously, ( I hear self works forming through you) "I" have to do, as you believe you have to
Not what Father has revealed to me. I made the free choice and chose to love all as Father has through Son for us all
Romans 2:1-4, Romans 14:1-4. Matthew 18:24-35, Luke 18:9-14

At first it was works to work. Which never worked, did at times, so it seemed, yet did not work Romans 6,7,8 especially 7