DEPRAVITY OF MAN

[tribesman]

God's elect are justified for eternal salvation by Christ's faith in accomplishing his Father's will on the cross. Justification for God's elect was accomplished on the cross by the faith of Christ and not man's faith. Gal 2:16. John 1:12, the only way that a man can receive Christ is to first be (verse 13) born of God by the new birth.John 3:18,

Galatians 2:16 says:

Gal.2

[16] Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
[17] But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.

Yes, "...we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ.”. Without this belief, there would be no justification. Again, this does not mean that belief is a prerequisite for justification or that this belief is something a natural man can produce. Not at all. It is all God's work.

Faith is the instrumental - not the meritorious - cause of justification. Likewise, because justification is by faith, justification is also said to follow calling in the ordo salutis (Rom. 8:30). Justification does not then precede faith - it is granted to those who are called to faith.

The justification of God’s elect is indeed from eternity, but it is accomplished in time by Christ's atoning blood and applied to the individual through faith. These are very important distinctions to make. If these distinctions are confused the biblical doctrine of justification will be confused.

Our union with Christ is an experience in time, when we believe. We have several scriptural examples of this.

Rom.16

[5] Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ.

Paul speaks of his dear friend Epaenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in Asia (aparche tes Asias eis Christon).

Similarly in verse 7 he speaks of Andronicus and Junias “who ... were in Christ before me” (pro emou gegonan en Christon).

Rom.16

[7] Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

These words would be totally meaningless read on the grid of eternal justification. No doubt, our union with Christ is experienced in time. Accordingly, in 2 Cor. 5:17 the apostle describes how this experience makes us a new creation.

2 Cor.

[17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Not until Saul of Tarsus turned away from his own merit to trust Christ alone could he receive justifying righteousness and be found in Christ.

Phil.3

[7] But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

However nothing of this denies the fact that the elect are chosen in Christ by God from eternity. But it is to affirm that there is an in-time experiential aspect to the union of the elect with Christ that the error of eternal justification can't accommodate.

The New Testament plainly describes all unbelievers as “condemned already” (Jn. 3:18; 3:36). “Just as” all the non-elect believers were themselves once the children of wrath and dead in their sins and trespasses (Eph. 2:1-3) and are therefore brands snatched from the fire that apart from faith would have been their end, as spoken of in Zechariah.

Zech.3

[2] And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

Before coming to this saving faith the elect are guilty, condemned, and the objects of God’s wrath. That is, they are not yet justified. God justifies the believing sinner.

Rom.4

[5] But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[tribesman]

There are many scriptures saying we are justified by faith, but the faith in question is not man's faith, but Christ's faith. I am assuming that you are trying to tell me that the natural man will believe in God before he is quickened by God to a spiritual life, is this what you are saying? Man's spiritual faith after he has been quickened by God can bring him many deliverances here in this world, but man's faith is not, and can not save him eternally.

Your assumption is wholly wrong. And I wonder where you got it from. If you had follow my posts here even to a small extent you would have seen that I have written hundreds of posts where I emphatically and categorically reject the belief in any condition to be fulfilled in the sinner in God's finished work for his redemption.

To make it clear again, justification is not given on account of faith, and faith is not presented as the ground of justification (if it was it could be said to be a meritorious work of man), however it is presented in an instrumental sense through which a believer receives the imputed righteousness of Christ. Only the righteousness of Christ imputed to us is the ground of our justification. But faith is thoroughly receptive in the appropriation of the merits of Christ, so that it can be put figuratively for the merits of Christ which it receives. Faith then is equivalent to the contents of faith, that is, to the merits, or the righteousness, of Christ.

Before the justification of a sinner even the elect were not pleasing God, were dead in their sins and trespasses, children of disobedience under God's wrath, even as others. If you believe to the contrary it will lead to antinomianism. That is, there will be no doctrinal or practical implications whatsoever of regeneration, it will be like a lottery! People may do every evil under the sun and they may believe any and all heresies, yet they would still be justified and pleasing to God.

The eternal justification error attacks the fruit of regeneration and even the biblical concept of grace itself, in the name of grace. We are to guard against the vile heresy of antinomianism whatever disguise and form it may come under. That's why we should reject the error of eternal justification.

 

[tribesman]

The natural man will not believe in a spiritual God 1 Cor 2:14. John 5:24, same as the other verses you have quoted, the natural man will not and cannot believe in spiritual things. John 10:5-27, the natural man is not one of his sheep and will not believe or hear spiritual things. The elect are justified for eternal life by the work Christ did on the cross and those that are not God's are not justified and cannot be justified.

Yes, natural man can not believe in the God of the Bible. And, yes, the work of Christ alone is the only ground for justification. So far, so good.

But the justification of sinners, whom God has entrusted His mercy, is something that these called sinners experiences in time, as has been shown now by several scriptures.

You base your claim of eternal justification on your interpretation of one single scripture. You do not interpret this scripture in the totality of all scripture (and the light thereof) that deals with the issue at hand. If you did that you would see that eternal justification is not biblical.

One more thing: regenerated souls are not ignorant about the righteousness of God, revealed in the gospel.

 

[AnandaHya]

Your assumption is wholly wrong. And I wonder where you got it from. If you had follow my posts here even to a small extent you would have seen that I have written hundreds of posts where I emphatically and categorically reject the belief in any condition to be fulfilled in the sinner in God's finished work for his redemption.

To make it clear again, justification is not given on account of faith, and faith is not presented as the ground of justification (if it was it could be said to be a meritorious work of man), however it is presented in an instrumental sense through which a believer receives the imputed righteousness of Christ. Only the righteousness of Christ imputed to us is the ground of our justification. But faith is thoroughly receptive in the appropriation of the merits of Christ, so that it can be put figuratively for the merits of Christ which it receives. Faith then is equivalent to the contents of faith, that is, to the merits, or the righteousness, of Christ.

Before the justification of a sinner even the elect were not pleasing God, were dead in their sins and trespasses, children of disobedience under God's wrath, even as others. If you believe to the contrary it will lead to antinomianism. That is, there will be no doctrinal or practical implications whatsoever of regeneration, it will be like a lottery! People may do every evil under the sun and they may believe any and all heresies, yet they would still be justified and pleasing to God.

The eternal justification error attacks the fruit of regeneration and even the biblical concept of grace itself, in the name of grace. We are to guard against the vile heresy of antinomianism whatever disguise and form it may come under. That's why we should reject the error of eternal justification.

YAAAHH!!!

a Lutheran who actually knows his stuff

 

[shroom2]

YAAAHH!!!

a Lutheran who actually knows his stuff

Too bad he doesn't understand God's Word, and that God really does want all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. God, through Christ, provided the means for salvation to all men. He leaves it up to us to choose to believe it.

 

[Forest]

Galatians 2:16 says:

Yes, "...we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ.”. Without this belief, there would be no justification. Again, this does not mean that belief is a prerequisite for justification or that this belief is something a natural man can produce. Not at all. It is all God's work.

Faith is the instrumental - not the meritorious - cause of justification. Likewise, because justification is by faith, justification is also said to follow calling in the ordo salutis (Rom. 8:30). Justification does not then precede faith - it is granted to those who are called to faith.

The justification of God’s elect is indeed from eternity, but it is accomplished in time by Christ's atoning blood and applied to the individual through faith. These are very important distinctions to make. If these distinctions are confused the biblical doctrine of justification will be confused.

Our union with Christ is an experience in time, when we believe. We have several scriptural examples of this.

Paul speaks of his dear friend Epaenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in Asia (aparche tes Asias eis Christon).

Similarly in verse 7 he speaks of Andronicus and Junias “who ... were in Christ before me” (pro emou gegonan en Christon).
These words would be totally meaningless read on the grid of eternal justification. No doubt, our union with Christ is experienced in time. Accordingly, in 2 Cor. 5:17 the apostle describes how this experience makes us a new creation.

Not until Saul of Tarsus turned away from his own merit to trust Christ alone could he receive justifying righteousness and be found in Christ.

However nothing of this denies the fact that the elect are chosen in Christ by God from eternity. But it is to affirm that there is an in-time experiential aspect to the union of the elect with Christ that the error of eternal justification can't accommodate.

The New Testament plainly describes all unbelievers as “condemned already” (Jn. 3:18; 3:36). “Just as” all the non-elect believers were themselves once the children of wrath and dead in their sins and trespasses (Eph. 2:1-3) and are therefore brands snatched from the fire that apart from faith would have been their end, as spoken of in Zechariah.

Before coming to this saving faith the elect are guilty, condemned, and the objects of God’s wrath. That is, they are not yet justified. God justifies the believing sinner.

Eternal justification for all of God's elect was accomplished by Jesus and his work upon the cross. This justification covered all of God's elect whether they had knowledge of it or not. The elect were chosen before the foundation of the world and God gave them to Christ for him to redeem them back to him and all of the elect by that process were redeemed, justified, predestined, called and glorified. John 6:37-41. In Gal 2:16, when we believe in Christ that it was him that justified us, the moment we believe that fact we are saved right then (timely) from believing that our faith justifies us and began to believe that it is in fact that Christ's faith justifies us. This one verse shows us an eternal salvation and a timely salvation. When we believe this we come unto a knowledge of the truth. Most of the elect have not come unto the knowledge of this truth, but they are still of the elect and eternally justified even if they don't know it.

 

[Forest]

Your assumption is wholly wrong. And I wonder where you got it from. If you had follow my posts here even to a small extent you would have seen that I have written hundreds of posts where I emphatically and categorically reject the belief in any condition to be fulfilled in the sinner in God's finished work for his redemption.

To make it clear again, justification is not given on account of faith, and faith is not presented as the ground of justification (if it was it could be said to be a meritorious work of man), however it is presented in an instrumental sense through which a believer receives the imputed righteousness of Christ. Only the righteousness of Christ imputed to us is the ground of our justification. But faith is thoroughly receptive in the appropriation of the merits of Christ, so that it can be put figuratively for the merits of Christ which it receives. Faith then is equivalent to the contents of faith, that is, to the merits, or the righteousness, of Christ.

Before the justification of a sinner even the elect were not pleasing God, were dead in their sins and trespasses, children of disobedience under God's wrath, even as others. If you believe to the contrary it will lead to antinomianism. That is, there will be no doctrinal or practical implications whatsoever of regeneration, it will be like a lottery! People may do every evil under the sun and they may believe any and all heresies, yet they would still be justified and pleasing to God.

The eternal justification error attacks the fruit of regeneration and even the biblical concept of grace itself, in the name of grace. We are to guard against the vile heresy of antinomianism whatever disguise and form it may come under. That's why we should reject the error of eternal justification.

Rom 8:28-30, Whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn of many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called, and whom he called, them he also justified, and whom he justified, them he also glorified. God's elect were made just by Christ's work on the cross. After the event of the cross, God looked upon his elect as Holy and without blame, even when they were by nature children of wrath as others. If we are of the belief that man's faith justifies him then we void out God's grace.

 

[Forest]

Yes, natural man can not believe in the God of the Bible. And, yes, the work of Christ alone is the only ground for justification. So far, so good.

But the justification of sinners, whom God has entrusted His mercy, is something that these called sinners experiences in time, as has been shown now by several scriptures.

You base your claim of eternal justification on your interpretation of one single scripture. You do not interpret this scripture in the totality of all scripture (and the light thereof) that deals with the issue at hand. If you did that you would see that eternal justification is not biblical.

One more thing: regenerated souls are not ignorant about the righteousness of God, revealed in the gospel.

It seems that the way you are believing is that every person on this forum who is regenerated has a knowledge of the truth (God's righteousness is the revelation of the truth). If everyone on this forum has the knowledge of the truth, we would all be believing the same way and it is eveident that we do not all believe alike. I conclude, then, that all of the elect has not come unto the knowledge of the truth, but only the few as described in the strait gate and narrow way. Matt 7.

 

[shroom2]

Forest, does God love you or did He merely "elect" you? Does He hate those He did not "elect"? Why?

 

[tribesman]

It seems that the way you are believing is that every person on this forum who is regenerated has a knowledge of the truth (God's righteousness is the revelation of the truth). If everyone on this forum has the knowledge of the truth, we would all be believing the same way and it is eveident that we do not all believe alike. I conclude, then, that all of the elect has not come unto the knowledge of the truth, but only the few as described in the strait gate and narrow way. Matt 7.

Forest, do you actually read my posts or not? I have said many times before here that I don't claim that the regenerate has knowledge of ALL truth of God. Neither do I claim that knowledge is prerequisite for justification. But the regenerate do have knowledge about the righteousness of God, revealed in the gospel. This knowledge is given them in regeneration. The unregenerate on the other hand do not have this knowledge.

 

[tribesman]

Eternal justification for all of God's elect was accomplished by Jesus and his work upon the cross. This justification covered all of God's elect whether they had knowledge of it or not. The elect were chosen before the foundation of the world and God gave them to Christ for him to redeem them back to him and all of the elect by that process were redeemed, justified, predestined, called and glorified. John 6:37-41. In Gal 2:16, when we believe in Christ that it was him that justified us, the moment we believe that fact we are saved right then (timely) from believing that our faith justifies us and began to believe that it is in fact that Christ's faith justifies us. This one verse shows us an eternal salvation and a timely salvation. When we believe this we come unto a knowledge of the truth. Most of the elect have not come unto the knowledge of this truth, but they are still of the elect and eternally justified even if they don't know it.

You have not yet proven that these verses cited only talk about timely salvation. Neither have you shown any plausible system by which you deem certain verses to talk about timely salvation while other verses talk about eternal salvation.

My question to you is: Do you think an "eternally saved" person will go his whole life, even until death, totally ignorant about the righteousness of God, revealed in the gospel? Can an "eternally saved" person believe false gospels, damnable heresies and be a worker of iniquity all his life, and die in that state, and yet be among the "eternally saved"? All that signifies that they are among the "eternally saved" is a zeal for their beliefs and their god?

How do you discern if someone is regenerate or not? Do saved people have any certain marks as how to what they believe and teach and live their lives or is just about anyone who professes interest in God, religion, the Bible, morals etc (however false it would ever be) among the "eternally saved"?

Do you see where your reasoning leads to?!?!

 

[tribesman]

Rom 8:28-30, Whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn of many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called, and whom he called, them he also justified, and whom he justified, them he also glorified. God's elect were made just by Christ's work on the cross. After the event of the cross, God looked upon his elect as Holy and without blame, even when they were by nature children of wrath as others. If we are of the belief that man's faith justifies him then we void out God's grace.

You still don't get it even I have spelled it out overly clear. The justification of the elect was decreed even from eternity, but it was worked out and accomplished in time by Christ's atonement and redemption and it is applied to the sinner in time, when he receives it through the instrument of faith (not his own working up of faith).

How God looked upon the elect since the cross, or even from eternity, is not the crucial matter in justification. What matters here is God's justice as displayed in His law. And this law condemned even the elect when they were found guilty of sin. Justification is then applied to the elect when they are given faith as an instrument to receive the imputed righteousness of Christ. Not before that. This is a legal matter, a matter of law. If you take out the law you will get lawlessness.

Rom.6

[17] But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
[18] Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Eph.2

[1] And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
[2] Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
[3] Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Tit.3

[3] For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

 

[tribesman]

YAAAHH!!!

a Lutheran who actually knows his stuff

Well, actually to be precise, lutheran (of the old type) in regards to issues like (single) predestination and sacraments like communion and absolution. In matters like the covenants and the view of the law and its uses I would be reformed. But that would be reformed of the "pristine" type, before the various latter types of "calvinisms" appeared. This would land me somewhere among the episcopalians, but the church I attend is yet not a such. Anyway, I could go and and on. If you or someone else want to know more about my beliefs on some issue, just send a PM.

 

[Forest]

Galatians 2:16 says:

Yes, "...we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ.”. Without this belief, there would be no justification. Again, this does not mean that belief is a prerequisite for justification or that this belief is something a natural man can produce. Not at all. It is all God's work.

Faith is the instrumental - not the meritorious - cause of justification. Likewise, because justification is by faith, justification is also said to follow calling in the ordo salutis (Rom. 8:30). Justification does not then precede faith - it is granted to those who are called to faith.

The justification of God’s elect is indeed from eternity, but it is accomplished in time by Christ's atoning blood and applied to the individual through faith. These are very important distinctions to make. If these distinctions are confused the biblical doctrine of justification will be confused.

Our union with Christ is an experience in time, when we believe. We have several scriptural examples of this.

Paul speaks of his dear friend Epaenetus, who was the first convert to Christ in Asia (aparche tes Asias eis Christon).

Similarly in verse 7 he speaks of Andronicus and Junias “who ... were in Christ before me” (pro emou gegonan en Christon).
These words would be totally meaningless read on the grid of eternal justification. No doubt, our union with Christ is experienced in time. Accordingly, in 2 Cor. 5:17 the apostle describes how this experience makes us a new creation.

Not until Saul of Tarsus turned away from his own merit to trust Christ alone could he receive justifying righteousness and be found in Christ.

However nothing of this denies the fact that the elect are chosen in Christ by God from eternity. But it is to affirm that there is an in-time experiential aspect to the union of the elect with Christ that the error of eternal justification can't accommodate.

The New Testament plainly describes all unbelievers as “condemned already” (Jn. 3:18; 3:36). “Just as” all the non-elect believers were themselves once the children of wrath and dead in their sins and trespasses (Eph. 2:1-3) and are therefore brands snatched from the fire that apart from faith would have been their end, as spoken of in Zechariah.

Before coming to this saving faith the elect are guilty, condemned, and the objects of God’s wrath. That is, they are not yet justified. God justifies the believing sinner.

You are making man's believing and faith a necessary thing in order to have eternal life and that would be eternal salvation by the works of man. Works according to Webester's dictionary is, in theology, moral acts distinguished from faith. Believing is acting upon ones faith which is "works". All of God's elect are justified, made just by Christ's work on the cross, but not many of them understand all that Christ accomplished on the cross. Just because they do not understand about their justification does not mean that they were not justified. Eternal salvation, being made just, is by the grace of God without the help of man.

 

[Forest]

Your assumption is wholly wrong. And I wonder where you got it from. If you had follow my posts here even to a small extent you would have seen that I have written hundreds of posts where I emphatically and categorically reject the belief in any condition to be fulfilled in the sinner in God's finished work for his redemption.

To make it clear again, justification is not given on account of faith, and faith is not presented as the ground of justification (if it was it could be said to be a meritorious work of man), however it is presented in an instrumental sense through which a believer receives the imputed righteousness of Christ. Only the righteousness of Christ imputed to us is the ground of our justification. But faith is thoroughly receptive in the appropriation of the merits of Christ, so that it can be put figuratively for the merits of Christ which it receives. Faith then is equivalent to the contents of faith, that is, to the merits, or the righteousness, of Christ.

Before the justification of a sinner even the elect were not pleasing God, were dead in their sins and trespasses, children of disobedience under God's wrath, even as others. If you believe to the contrary it will lead to antinomianism. That is, there will be no doctrinal or practical implications whatsoever of regeneration, it will be like a lottery! People may do every evil under the sun and they may believe any and all heresies, yet they would still be justified and pleasing to God.

The eternal justification error attacks the fruit of regeneration and even the biblical concept of grace itself, in the name of grace. We are to guard against the vile heresy of antinomianism whatever disguise and form it may come under. That's why we should reject the error of eternal justification.

We receive the imputed righteousness of Christ when we are quickened together with Christ by God Eph 2:5. When he writes his laws in our hearts and upon our minds.

 

[Forest]

Forest, does God love you or did He merely "elect" you? Does He hate those He did not "elect"? Why?

There is no reason that you should not know the answers to these questions after all of the information I have given you.

 

[Forest]

Forest, do you actually read my posts or not? I have said many times before here that I don't claim that the regenerate has knowledge of ALL truth of God. Neither do I claim that knowledge is prerequisite for justification. But the regenerate do have knowledge about the righteousness of God, revealed in the gospel. This knowledge is given them in regeneration. The unregenerate on the other hand do not have this knowledge.

Tribesman, do you not see that there are regenerated people on this forum that do not see the truth that Christ has proclaimed in the gospels? All of those who believe that they have to act upon grace for it to be grace are children of God that are believing in a false doctrine. In Matt 7:13-14, Those that go in the wide gate are the children of God who are believing in a false doctrine of works and those who go in the strait gate are those children of God that has been revealed the knowledge of the true doctrine of Christ. Those children of God who are believing in their own righeous works for eternal salvation do not have a knowledge of the righteousness of God, which is eternal salvation by his grace alone.

 

[Forest]

Forest, do you actually read my posts or not? I have said many times before here that I don't claim that the regenerate has knowledge of ALL truth of God. Neither do I claim that knowledge is prerequisite for justification. But the regenerate do have knowledge about the righteousness of God, revealed in the gospel. This knowledge is given them in regeneration. The unregenerate on the other hand do not have this knowledge.

God quickens the elect from a death (spiritually dead) in sin to a life in Christ by putting his Spirit within him. The new born babe in Christ then began to desire the sincere milk of the word, that they may grow thereby. They, when first born, do not have the knowledge of the righteousness of God until they hear the word and grow in faith the more that they hear the word, the more faith that they have. The newly born child of God is just as the new born natural baby that has to grow in knowledge. Isa 21:9, Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. Those that are new born babes in Christ are the elect, and when they are newly born they do not understand doctrine, which is the righteousness of God.

 

[Forest]

You have not yet proven that these verses cited only talk about timely salvation. Neither have you shown any plausible system by which you deem certain verses to talk about timely salvation while other verses talk about eternal salvation.

My question to you is: Do you think an "eternally saved" person will go his whole life, even until death, totally ignorant about the righteousness of God, revealed in the gospel? Can an "eternally saved" person believe false gospels, damnable heresies and be a worker of iniquity all his life, and die in that state, and yet be among the "eternally saved"? All that signifies that they are among the "eternally saved" is a zeal for their beliefs and their god?

How do you discern if someone is regenerate or not? Do saved people have any certain marks as how to what they believe and teach and live their lives or is just about anyone who professes interest in God, religion, the Bible, morals etc (however false it would ever be) among the "eternally saved"?

Do you see where your reasoning leads to?!?!

Most of the salvation scriptures are talking about deliverances we receive as we live here in this world. Eph 2:5, Ye are saved by grace, through (Christ's)faith not ours, and that not of yourselves. This is talking about eternal salvation. Acts 2:40, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. This is a timely salvation. When we pray to God to heal us from an illness and he does heal us, this is a timely salvation. Anytime that there is a requirement of man to receive salvation, then that salvation would be a timely salvation. Mark 16:16 is not talking about eternal salvation, but a timely deliverance. Baptism does not save a man eternally. It is an answer of a good conscience toward God 1 Pet 3:21. Ps 107:13-timely salvation. Luke 18:42 The blind man's faith saved him, not eternally but from being blind, a timely salvation. The blind man received this salvation as soon as he could see. Ps 37:37-40 are timely salvations. Ps 40:1-3 is a timely salvation. Phil 2:12, Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, timely salvtion. 1 Tim 4:16 timely salvation. James 5:15, timely salvation. James 5:20 timely salvation shall save a soul from death (death, meaning non fellowship with God, not death in hell).

 

[Forest]

You have not yet proven that these verses cited only talk about timely salvation. Neither have you shown any plausible system by which you deem certain verses to talk about timely salvation while other verses talk about eternal salvation.

My question to you is: Do you think an "eternally saved" person will go his whole life, even until death, totally ignorant about the righteousness of God, revealed in the gospel? Can an "eternally saved" person believe false gospels, damnable heresies and be a worker of iniquity all his life, and die in that state, and yet be among the "eternally saved"? All that signifies that they are among the "eternally saved" is a zeal for their beliefs and their god?

How do you discern if someone is regenerate or not? Do saved people have any certain marks as how to what they believe and teach and live their lives or is just about anyone who professes interest in God, religion, the Bible, morals etc (however false it would ever be) among the "eternally saved"?

Do you see where your reasoning leads to?!?!

Compare the difference in the natural man 1 Cor 2:16 and the righteous man. Man is either natural or spiritual, no in betweens.