Descended from Israel vs Belonging to Israel

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isn;t it funny when someone doesn't agree with another persons opinion(yes opinion) of scripture, they say the bible plainly says,

the truth is to a christian zionist (est1800c) the scripture plainly says 1 thing and to the conventional believer of the previous 1800 years and to date it plainly says another.

we are a people of the promise given to abraham , not of a covenant that became broken 1kings11:11

so what is the fulfilment of the law and the prophets, the non believing land in the middle east or Jesus? ,, you decide
 
Well when you take out the bluster, what is left? Very little. Yes, the new covenant is now in operation. I will write me laws in their mind..........

Now let us return to Hebrews 8:
The days are coming, declares the Lord,
when I will make a new covenant
with the people of Israel
and with the people of Judah.
[SUP]9[/SUP]It will not be like the covenant
I made with their ancestors
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they did not remain faithful to my covenant,
and I turned away from them,
declares the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”[SUP][

Who will all know God? Everyone on this earth? This scripture is specifically being referred to the people who broke the first covenant, who were they? I don't mean to be offensive, but you really need to try and progress from your shortsightedness and see the bigger picture. It is so plainly written, only being led of the natural mind can cause such error as yours. [/SUP]
Seriously?

Are you SERIOUSLY asking me who will know God?

Friend, ANYBODY WHO IS TRULY SAVED KNOWS GOD:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

I'm the one who needs "to see the bigger picture?

Seriously?

You're the one who's limited to seeing a natural nation while willingly ignoring the fact that "the Israel of God" has ALWAYS pertained to BOTH believing Gentiles (and they came first) AND believing Jews.

Look, I only have another minute or two available to me right now in that I have an appointment which I need to keep which will keep me busy until this evening, but later on I'll make a post in relation to Abram/Abraham and if that doesn't begin to at least open your eyes to your error, then I don't know if anything else ever will.
 
Seriously?

Are you SERIOUSLY asking me who will know God?

Friend, ANYBODY WHO IS TRULY SAVED KNOWS GOD:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." (John 17:3)

I'm the one who needs "to see the bigger picture?

Seriously?

You're the one who's limited to seeing a natural nation while willingly ignoring the fact that "the Israel of God" has ALWAYS pertained to BOTH believing Gentiles (and they came first) AND believing Jews.

Look, I only have another minute or two available to me right now in that I have an appointment which I need to keep which will keep me busy until this evening, but later on I'll make a post in relation to Abram/Abraham and if that doesn't begin to at least open your eyes to your error, then I don't know if anything else ever will.

It won't take you a minute to tell me who is being referred to in Ezekiel ch 36 that I placed before you will it.

And I SEE YOU DIDN'T RESPOND DIRECTLY TO THE QUESTION, A BIT VAGUE IT SEEMS

No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will ALL know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
 
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BTW

I have found those who most use the word heretic are people who are led more of their natural minds than spiritual truth
...and I've found that people like you who so easily espouse their HERESIES and even seek to attribute the same to the ministry of the Holy Spirit have no fear of God whatsoever. Like it or not, HERETICS will not enter the kingdom of God and that's what you presently are.
 
...and I've found that people like you who so easily espouse their HERESIES and even seek to attribute the same to the ministry of the Holy Spirit have no fear of God whatsoever. Like it or not, HERETICS will not enter the kingdom of God and that's what you presently are.

hopefully YOU WILL SPARE A MINUTE TO TELL ME WHO THE PEOPLE ARE BEING REFERRED TO IN Ezekiel CH 36
yOUR POST IS NOT WORTH TAKING SERIOUSLY
 
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...and I've found that people like you who so easily espouse their HERESIES and even seek to attribute the same to the ministry of the Holy Spirit have no fear of God whatsoever. Like it or not, HERETICS will not enter the kingdom of God and that's what you presently are.

I won't put any other points to you until you answer this one:

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Again the word of the Lord came to me: [SUP]17 [/SUP]“Son of man, when the people of Israel were living in their own land, they defiled it by their conduct and their actions. Their conduct was like a woman’s monthly uncleanness in my sight. [SUP]18 [/SUP]So I poured out my wrath on them because they had shed blood in the land and because they had defiled it with their idols. [SUP]19 [/SUP]I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions. [SUP]20 [/SUP]And wherever they went among the nations they profaned my holy name, for it was said of them, ‘These are the Lord’s people, and yet they had to leave his land.’ [SUP]21 [/SUP]I had concern for my holy name, which the people of Israel profaned among the nations where they had gone.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]“Therefore say to the Israelites, ‘This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, people of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone. [SUP]23 [/SUP]I will show the holiness of my great name, which has been profaned among the nations, the name you have profaned among them. Then the nations will know that I am the Lord, declares the Sovereign Lord, when I am proved holy through you before their eyes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]“‘For I will take you out of the nations; I will gather you from all the countries and bring you back into your own land. [SUP]25 [/SUP]I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your impurities and from all your idols.

Ezekiel 36:16-25
.
Who is being referred to in the above?
 
Let's talk about Abram/Abraham, okay?

Galatians chapter 3

[1] O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
[2] This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[3] Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
[4] Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
[5] He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[6] Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
[7] Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
[8] And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
[9] So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
[10] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[11] But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[12] And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
[13] Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
[14] That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[15] Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
[17] And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[18] For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[19] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
[20] Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
[21] Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[22] But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[23] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
[26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


In verse 8 of what we just read, the Apostle Paul said "and the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed."

Friends, Paul said that God Who would justify THE HEATHEN OR ALL NATIONS THROUGH FAITH preached before THE GOSPEL unto Abram/Abraham. The first thing that we need to realize, friends, is that THE GOSPEL ALWAYS PERTAINED TO THE HEATHEN OR TO ALL NATIONS and, in fact, as I've already documented on this thread, THE FIRST BELIEVERS FOR APPROXIMATELY THE FIRST 2000 YEARS OF RECORDED BIBLICAL HISTORY WERE ALL GENTILES, INCLUDING ABRAHAM, IN THAT THERE SIMPLY WERE NO ISRAELITES OR JEWS UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH AT THAT TIME...like it or not. Again, one's ethnicity has absolutely nothing at all to do with salvation, even though the HERETICS who are running wild today would have us to believe the exact opposite in relation to natural born Israelites and/or Jews whom they allege are all going to be saved even though the Bible teaches THE EXACT OPPOSITE FROM COVER TO COVER, but I'm just mentioning this to offset this whole Judaized or Zionized focus upon natural Israel which many would seek to foist upon us. Anyhow, Paul cited us THE EXACT VERSE OF SCRIPTURE IN WHICH GOD PREACHED THE GOSPEL UNTO ABRAM/ABRAHAM, so let's examine the same now:

Genesis chapter 12

[1] Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
[2] And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
[3] And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
[4] So Abram departed, as the LORD had spoken unto him; and Lot went with him: and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran.


When Abram/Abraham had THE GOSPEL preached unto him by God, he was 75 YEARS OLD. Again, if you refer back to the timeline of Abraham's life which I posted earlier on this thread...

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/107934-descended-israel-vs-belonging-israel-8.html#post1903790

...then you'll recognize that Jacob wasn't even born until the time that Abraham was 160 YEARS OLD or until 85 YEARS AFTER Abram/Abraham had THE GOSPEL preached unto him by God. Furthermore, if you refer back to said timeline, then you'll also recognize that Abram/Abraham died 100 YEARS AFTER God preached THE GOSPEL unto him or when he was 175 YEARS OLD and that Jacob didn't have his name changed by God to "Israel" UNTIL AFTER ABRAHAM WAS DEAD AND BURIED. IOW, when Abram/Abraham had THE GOSPEL preached unto him by God, there was as yet no such thing as either a natural Israelite or a natural Jew upon the face of the earth. Please keep that reality in mind. Thank you.

Let's now look at THE GOSPEL itself which was preached to Abram/Abraham:

Genesis chapter 12

[1] Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
[2] And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
[3] And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


If you actually read THE GOSPEL which was preached to Abram/Abraham by God, then you'll notice something very peculiar:

THERE'S NOT A SINGLE MENTION OF THE NATION OF ISRAEL WHICH CAME MORE THAN 105 YEARS LATER EVEN THOUGH MANY SWEAR TODAY THAT THIS VERSE PERTAINS TO THE NATION OF ISRAEL AND TO CURSE ISRAEL IS TO INCUR GOD'S CURSE UPON ONE'S SELF.

Now, some would object and say:

"Are you kidding me? Didn't you read where God said that He would make of THEE a great nation?"

Oh, I read it alright...BUT THE BLESSING IS IN RELATION TO "THEE":

"I will make of THEE a great nation..." (vs. 2)

"I will bless THEE..." (vs. 2)

"And make THY NAME great..." (vs. 2)

"THOU shalt be a blessing..." (vs. 2)

"I will bless them that bless THEE..." (vs. 3)

"And curse him that curses THEE..." (vs. 3)

"And in THEE shall ALL THE FAMILIES or ALL NATIONS (Galatians 3:8) be blessed..." (vs. 3)


IOW, the blessing is attached to ABRAHAM and NOT to any single nation. Yes, in fact, THROUGH ABRAHAM and NOT through any single nation like Israel as is commonly taught ALL NATIONS SHALL BE BLESSED (Galatians 3:8).

What then is the actual blessing and how does it pertain directly to Abraham?

There's no need to guess, friends, because Paul gave us the answer to this question in the opening portion of scripture which I cited:

Galatians chapter 3

[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
[17] And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[18] For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[19] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


Friends, God made "the promises" to "Abraham and his seed", SINGULAR, and Abraham's "seed" IS CHRIST (vs. 16)! IOW, "the promises" were NEVER made solely to any of Abraham's natural descendants which would include natural born Israelites or natural born Jews, but rather to JESUS CHRIST and to those who truly belong to Him, whether believing Gentiles who came first (like Abraham himself) or believing Israelites/Jews who came second. Let's then look at some of these "promises":

Genesis chapter 12

[6] And Abram passed through the land unto the place of Sichem, unto the plain of Moreh. And the Canaanite was then in the land.
[7] And the LORD appeared unto Abram, and said, Unto thy seed will I give this land: and there builded he an altar unto the LORD, who appeared unto him.


Again:

Genesis chapter 13

[14] And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:
[15] For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
[16] And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

Friends, the "seed" to Whom the land was "promised" ("the promised land") is JESUS CHRIST and those who truly belong to Him and NOT just natural born Israelites and I'll prove as much in a moment. Furthermore, Abraham's "seed, WHICH IS CHRIST" (Galatians 3:16) was likened to "the dust of the earth" in that there will be a multitude of Christians who are saved before everything is said and done. IOW, this verse wasn't referring to the natural nation of Israel which wasn't even in existence at this point in time, but rather referring to what the Bible calls "the Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16) OF WHICH ABRAHAM HIMSELF WAS A VITAL PART, BEING CALLED THE VERY "FATHER OF ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE" (Romans 4:11) AND/OR "THE FATHER OF MANY NATIONS" (Romans 4:17-18), EVEN THOUGH THE NATURAL NATION OF ISRAEL DIDN'T COME INTO EXISTENCE UNTIL AFTER ABRAHAM WAS DEAD AND BURIED. Along these very same lines, we read:

Genesis chapter 15

[1] After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
[2] And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
[3] And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.
[4] And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
[5] And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
[6] And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.


Again, this "seed" of Whom the LORD was referring was JESUS CHRIST and Abraham's belief in the Same was "counted unto him for righteousness. Again, as CHRISTIANS or those who believe in Christ were previously likened to "the dust of the earth" in number, here CHRISTIANS are likened to "the stars of heaven" in that there will be a vast number of the same before everything is said and done. My point here is that HERETICS "wrest" and "twist" these verses as if they somehow apply to natural Israelites instead of CHRISTIANS or those who are truly "Abraham's seed":

Galatians chapter 3

[26] For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
[27] For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
[28] There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
[29] And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


THERE IS NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK (GENTILE), friends, so don't allow anybody to erect "the middle wall of partition between us" (Ephesians 2:14) which Christ Himself tore down by insisting that God has some sort of "special covenant" with the Israelites/Jews. HE DOESN'T..and NEVER did. God's covenant HAS ALWAYS BEEN WITH CHRIST, THE SINGULAR "SEED OF ABRAHAM", even as we previously read:

Galatians chapter 3

[16] Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
[17] And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[18] For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[19] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


Again, JESUS CHRIST is the SINGULAR "seed of Abraham" (vs. 16) and "THE COVENANT WAS CONFIRMED BEFORE OF GOD IN CHRIST" or 430 years before "the law" ever came into effect and also before there was ever any such thing as either a natural Israelite or natural Jew upon the face of the earth and JESUS CHRIST is "the seed to whom the promise was made" (vs. 19). Why am I stressing all of this? Well, to put an end (hopefully) to all of this focus upon natural Israel and to prove to all conclusively that God's covenant was always with JESUS CHRIST, THE TRUE ISRAEL, and NOT with natural Israel itself...and I'll come back to this in a moment. Again, the real "replacement theology" or "supersessionism" which is being taught today is that which is being foisted upon us by those who would seek to "replace" God's covenant WITH JESUS CHRIST, THE TRUE ISRAEL, with natural Israel. Anyhow, let's look at some more Old Testament "promises" in relation to Abraham's "seed, WHICH IS CHRIST" (Galatians 3:16):

Genesis chapter 15

[17] And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
[18] In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
[19] The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,
[20] And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,
[21] And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.


Again:

Genesis chapter 17

[1] And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.
[2] And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.
[3] And Abram fell on his face: and God talked with him, saying,
[4] As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.
[5] Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.
[6] And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.
[7] And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
[8] And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.


Friends, Abraham's very name means "a father of MANY NATIONS" or "a father of A MULTITUDE" in that Abraham's "seed" is JESUS CHRIST and people from every nation who truly belong to Him will share "the promises" WHICH WERE MADE TO HIM in that they are "joint-heirs with Christ" (Romans 8:17). Again, "the promises" HAVE NOTHING AT ALL TO DO WITH NATURAL ISRAEL AND EVERYTHING TO DO WITH JESUS CHRIST, THE TRUE ISRAEL.

(Continued in the next post)
 
(Continued from the previous post)

I hope that this doesn't sound rude, BUT USE YOUR GOD-GIVEN BRAINS. IOW, please seriously think about what I'm about to say...

There are those who insist that these "promises" which we just read of, especially those in relation to "the promised land", pertain to natural Israel, right? I mean, they're convinced that natural Israel is entitled to "the promised land" and they therefore regulary side with Israel in Middle Eastern disputes and many donate their finances to support natural Israel as well. Here's my question (remember, use your GOD-GIVEN BRAIN) for them/you:

If God truly "promised" the "land" to natural Israelites or to some (other nations came out of Abraham, btw) of Abraham's natural descendants, THEN WHY THE HELL DID HE, GOD HIMSELF, OVERTHROW IN HIS WRATH 603,548 OF THE ORIGINAL 603,550 NATURAL BORN ISRAELITES WHO WERE 20 YEARS OLD AND UPWARD WHO CAME OUT OF EGYPT IN THE WILDERNESS, SWEARING THAT THEY WOULD NOT ENTER INTO HIS REST?

IOW, why did only 2 of the original 603,550, Joshua and Caleb, actually step foot within "the promised land"?

There's no need to guess, friends, for we read:

Numbers chapter 32

[10] And the LORD's anger was kindled the same time, and he sware, saying,
[11] Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me:
[12] Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite, and Joshua the son of Nun: for they have wholly followed the LORD.


Again:

Deuteronomy chapter 1

[34] And the LORD heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,
[35] Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,
[36] Save Caleb the son of Jephunneh; he shall see it, and to him will I give the land that he hath trodden upon, and to his children, because he hath wholly followed the LORD.
[37] Also the LORD was angry with me for your sakes, saying, Thou also shalt not go in thither.
[38] But Joshua the son of Nun, which standeth before thee, he shall go in thither: encourage him: for he shall cause Israel to inherit it.


Only 2 men out of the original 603,500 Israelite men who were 20 years old and upward who came out of Egypt actually stepped foot within "the promised land" or THE LAND WHICH WAS PROMISED TO ABRAHAM'S "SEED" and those 2 men were Joshua and Caleb "BECAUSE THEY WHOLLY FOLLOWED THE LORD"! What "LORD"? THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WHO IS ABRAHAM'S "SEED" (Galatians 3:16) AND THE TRUE ISRAEL. IOW, seeing how "the promised land" was actually "promised" to Abraham's "seed, WHICH IS CHRIST" (Galatians 3:16) and seeing how only 2 natural born Israelites WHOLLY FOLLOWED THE LORD OR WHOLLY FOLLOWED CHRIST, they were the only 2 to actually inherit "the promise". Friends, JESUS CHRIST is "the Rock which followed them" (I Corinthians 10:4), with the "them" being the Israelites, during their wilderness journeys and, again, only 2 men out of the original 603,550 Israelite men who were 20 years old and upward who came out of Egypt "wholly followed the LORD" or WHOLLY FOLLOWED JESUS CHRIST, THE TRUE ISRAEL AND ABRAHAM'S "SEED" OR THE ONE TO WHOM "THE PROMISED LAND" WAS ACTUALLY "PROMISED" and they therefore are the only 2 to step foot within the same in that they were the only 2 out of the original 603,550 Israelite men who truly were a part of what the Bible calls "the Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16).

Somebody will get it.

Well, that was only an introduction...
 
The first generation Israelites didn't forfeit heaven because they didn't trust God for the Promised Land, they only forfeited the Promised Land. The Promised Land is not heaven.

It's a perfect illustration of how Christians should sanctify themselves and not fail in unbelief. We can lose out on rewards both presently and in heaven.
 
And who does Paul say is a true Jew?
If not those engrafted, and engrafted back in, then who?

Your label of "Jew" is very physically minded, and gullible, and founded upon man-made definitions, not the definitions of the Word of God. There are many who claim to be Jews, but are of a very different Synogogue (Revelation speaks clearly of this).

Sophia,

Please read Zec 12:10-13:2 and Hosea chapter 2.

I think you may change your interpretation of Ro 11 somewhat

The Scriptures you cite for your position are addressed to the Judaizers who sought to put the Church back under Law.
 
Sophia,

Please read Zec 12:10-13:2 and Hosea chapter 2.

I think you may change your interpretation of Ro 11 somewhat

The Scriptures you cite for your position are addressed to the Judaizers who sought to put the Church back under Law.
I do agree that there will be a day when all of the house of David and Israel will be saved,
but according to Jeremiah, the process is through cutting off all those in Israel who are not part of the Remnant.

I recognize that there is a bloodline of each of the tribes, running true to this day... but unlike the zionists, I believe this bloodline is hidden, and to be revealed in the Last week of years.
The lineage of being part of Israel, or being considered a Jew, was only partially genetic, but was always fully about faithfulness to the Covenant. Because modern Judaism is not faithful to the Old Covenant, those born into that religion are born Gentiles (or at least "cut-off) and not considered Israel by even the Old Covenant. That is why I say that modern "Jews" are not true Jews, but only those making a claim of the title.

Also, the geneologies are lost. They may claim genetic title, but the claim in not verifiable without the geneologies.
The geneologies will be restored before or at His Coming, and then the claims will be verified or tossed aside, and many who never made a claim will be shown their roots. This is where I see those prophesies being fulfilled, along with the 144k.
 
I said some of that with more confidence than intended. I still am full of questions about this topic, and am willing to be shown mistaken about it.

My main point is that, because being a Jew requires more than just bloodline, that those who follow modern Judaism are as Gentile as any Muslim,
and likely have similar genetic lines to the tribes, seeing as so many Jewish, Samaritan, Assyrian, Babylonian, and Jordanian families converted Islam during it's first few hundred years. One false religion or another. It seems that many of those who have genetic lines to the tribes are stuck in one of those two religions... yet many also found Christ!
 
So God doesn't have a plan for physical Israel?
He does.
Who are the 144,000 and who are the ones fleeing to the mountains?
The 144k are the culmination of both physical and spiritual Israel during the Last Days. They will be set apart, but not alone. And they will be from 12 Tribes, so most will not be Jewish. Only 12k will be Jewish.
Like I said before, the bloodline is not known during this age, but will be revealed when the times are full.

Those fleeing to the mountains were all in Judea who listen to the Word: Samaritans, Jews, Greeks, and Romans alike.
 
The 144k are the culmination of both physical and spiritual Israel during the Last Days.

You mean they will be Israel both genetically and spiritually? Or do you mean some will be physical Israel and some will be Spiritual Israel?
 
You mean they will be Israel both genetically and spiritually? Or do you mean some will be physical Israel and some will be Spiritual Israel?
Due to the naming of individual tribes, I'm certain that they are physically descendents of Israel.
Due to them standing beside the Lamb, I'm certain that they are part of spiritual Israel.