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A
nah, not really that interested.
passage seems pretty simple to me:
Seeking mediums are bad. Spirits lie and most of their words are not to be trusted. even when spirits speak the truth, but encourage you to do things that go against what God teaches (like seeking out mediums) it is WRONG and the person/medium/ prophet is a false one.
the point of my first question was that the Bible does NOT tell us that the "spirit" tells the woman about Saul. so the whole story is not written.
therefore the argument that the narrator would have made a distinction between a demonic spirit and the true spirit of Samuel and since its not there it MUST be Samuel spirit is a logical fallacy, since there are other parts of the story that are not present.
truthfully I wonder if it matters if it really is Samuel or a demon? we are told not to consult mediums. so anyone who does will not get a blessing but a curse be it from the demon or the spirit of the person they are trying to contact.
demons can tell the truth. look at the soothsayer that followed Paul around. she was not speaking lies (Paul was a servant of God and was proclaiming the way to salvation) and she could tell the future, that's why her owners got mad when Paul cast out the demon within her.
Acts 16
[h=3][/h][SUP]16 [/SUP]Now it happened, as we went to prayer, that a certain slave girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much profit by fortune-telling. [SUP]17 [/SUP]This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, “These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.” [SUP]18 [/SUP]And this she did for many days.
But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But when her masters saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to the authorities.
therefore demons don't always lie. half truths are more insidious.
I read the account and found that when the Saul asked the women to describe the spirit, she never said "it is Samuel." it says that Saul assumed it was Samuel and fell down and worshiped it.
I want to know if it was Samuel's spirit, why did he not tell him to get up and not worship him?
the angel in Revelation told John not to.
You would think a spirit who was Samuel would point people to God and away from worshiping anyone else, wouldn't you?
another one of my question was why does the verse say that the body becomes dust but the spirit returns to God who gave it?
some people say we are made up of three parts: the body, spirit and the soul. others only two.
anyway its just some thoughts on the subject.
passage seems pretty simple to me:
Seeking mediums are bad. Spirits lie and most of their words are not to be trusted. even when spirits speak the truth, but encourage you to do things that go against what God teaches (like seeking out mediums) it is WRONG and the person/medium/ prophet is a false one.
the point of my first question was that the Bible does NOT tell us that the "spirit" tells the woman about Saul. so the whole story is not written.
therefore the argument that the narrator would have made a distinction between a demonic spirit and the true spirit of Samuel and since its not there it MUST be Samuel spirit is a logical fallacy, since there are other parts of the story that are not present.
truthfully I wonder if it matters if it really is Samuel or a demon? we are told not to consult mediums. so anyone who does will not get a blessing but a curse be it from the demon or the spirit of the person they are trying to contact.
demons can tell the truth. look at the soothsayer that followed Paul around. she was not speaking lies (Paul was a servant of God and was proclaiming the way to salvation) and she could tell the future, that's why her owners got mad when Paul cast out the demon within her.
Acts 16
[h=3][/h][SUP]16 [/SUP]Now it happened, as we went to prayer, that a certain slave girl possessed with a spirit of divination met us, who brought her masters much profit by fortune-telling. [SUP]17 [/SUP]This girl followed Paul and us, and cried out, saying, “These men are the servants of the Most High God, who proclaim to us the way of salvation.” [SUP]18 [/SUP]And this she did for many days.
But Paul, greatly annoyed, turned and said to the spirit, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And he came out that very hour. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But when her masters saw that their hope of profit was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to the authorities.
therefore demons don't always lie. half truths are more insidious.
I read the account and found that when the Saul asked the women to describe the spirit, she never said "it is Samuel." it says that Saul assumed it was Samuel and fell down and worshiped it.
I want to know if it was Samuel's spirit, why did he not tell him to get up and not worship him?
the angel in Revelation told John not to.
You would think a spirit who was Samuel would point people to God and away from worshiping anyone else, wouldn't you?
another one of my question was why does the verse say that the body becomes dust but the spirit returns to God who gave it?
some people say we are made up of three parts: the body, spirit and the soul. others only two.
anyway its just some thoughts on the subject.
There are strong Scriptural indications that it was not Samuel.
Witches do not have the power to bring the redeemed back to this world.
Nor would Samuel have agreed that they could.
However, Saul believed the delusion, which caused him to prostrate himself before it, and convinced him of the power of divination, thereby turning him over to the power of Satan.
Therefore, Saul does not own the righteousness of God in turning away from him, as he would have if he were repentant, but calls God unkind and departs from him, seeking advice from elsewhere, which can only be Satan.
Satan's response is deliberately intended to drive Saul to despair and suicide.
Had it been truly Samuel, he would have told him to repent and make peace with God,
to recall David from his banishment of him, and he might hope to find mercy from God.
Satan could foretell his death because God had turned Saul over to Satan for destruction (1Kgs 22:20-22; 1Co 5:5).
Witches do not have the power to bring the redeemed back to this world.
Nor would Samuel have agreed that they could.
However, Saul believed the delusion, which caused him to prostrate himself before it, and convinced him of the power of divination, thereby turning him over to the power of Satan.
Therefore, Saul does not own the righteousness of God in turning away from him, as he would have if he were repentant, but calls God unkind and departs from him, seeking advice from elsewhere, which can only be Satan.
Satan's response is deliberately intended to drive Saul to despair and suicide.
Had it been truly Samuel, he would have told him to repent and make peace with God,
to recall David from his banishment of him, and he might hope to find mercy from God.
Satan could foretell his death because God had turned Saul over to Satan for destruction (1Kgs 22:20-22; 1Co 5:5).
Some among those believing that the dead can give messages to the living point to the Holy Bible as confirming their view. One example they cite is an incident involving King Saul of ancient Israel.-1 Samuel 28:12-15.
The Bible links silence, not talking, with death. (Psalm 115:17) At Galatians 5:19-21, “practice of spiritism” is listed among the corrupt “works of the flesh” that will exclude a person from the kingdom of God.
Other passages of the Holy Scriptures shed light on the matter. First, it is clear that what Saul did in consulting a spirit medium was a violation of God’s law. Both spirit mediums and those consulting them were judged guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:6, 27) See Deuteronomy 18:9-11; Isaiah 8:19, 20.
If spirit mediums could actually get in touch with the dead then God would not have label their practice as something “unclean,” “detestable” and deserving of death. If the communication were with dead loved ones, for example, then God of love would not designate this as a terrible crime. If so, He would not want to deprive the living of getting some comforting messages from the dead. God’s view indicates that people are not really talking to the dead but that a terrible deception is involved. Scriptural evidence shows that is the case.
Against this background, consider the case of Saul. Due to his unfaithfulness to Jehovah God, King Saul was cut off from divine direction for carrying out his responsibilities. Therefore, when the Philistines came to wage war against him, in desperation, he sought help from a spirit medium.
Regarding divine communication with him, Saul acknowledged: “God himself has departed from me and has answered me no more, either by means of the prophets or by dreams; so that I am calling you [Samuel] to let me know what I shall do.” (1 Samuel 28:15) Obviously, God would not allow a spirit medium to get around this divine cutoff of communication by getting in touch with a dead prophet and having him deliver a message from God to Saul. Then, too, during the latter part of his life, Samuel himself, a faithful prophet of God, had ceased to have any dealings whatsoever with Saul. Would it not be unreasonable, therefore, to conclude that Samuel was willing to speak with Saul by means of a spirit medium, an arrangement that was condemned by God? Manifestly, there must have been deception involved, something so unclean that spirit mediums and those consulting them merited the death sentence. Saul was not brought in touch with the dead prophet Samuel. It was a wicked spirit impersonating the dead prophet Samuel. That same deception must be behind claimed communication with the dead today.
Demonistic practices such as reading crystal balls, palmistry, casting hypnotic spells, consulting Ouija boards or spirit mediums are all abominable in Jehovah’s sight. Mediums that claim to speak with “departed spirits” are actually communicating with wicked spirits who impersonate dead persons. It is of interest that the Greek word here translated “practice of spiritism” is phar·ma·ki'a, which literally means “druggery.” In Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words we read:
“PHARMAKIA . . . primarily signified the use of medicine, drugs, spells; then, poisoning; then, sorcery, . . . See also Rev. 9:21; 18:23. . . . In sorcery, the use of drugs, whether simple or potent, was generally accompanied by incantations and appeals to occult powers, with the provision of various charms, . . . to impress the applicant with the mysterious resources and powers of the sorcerer.”
Persons today who take drugs such as opium, heroin, marijuana and other narcotics are laying themselves open to demon attacks. This is indicated in that some who have taken “trips” with drugs say that they ‘approached God,’ ‘expanded their minds,’ and so forth. Also to be tied in with “druggery” is addiction to betel nut or to tobacco, “unclean” practices that dull the senses and weaken the power to make right decisions, and that are devoid of neighbor love.-2 Corinthians 6:17–7:1.
The Bible links silence, not talking, with death. (Psalm 115:17) At Galatians 5:19-21, “practice of spiritism” is listed among the corrupt “works of the flesh” that will exclude a person from the kingdom of God.
Other passages of the Holy Scriptures shed light on the matter. First, it is clear that what Saul did in consulting a spirit medium was a violation of God’s law. Both spirit mediums and those consulting them were judged guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:6, 27) See Deuteronomy 18:9-11; Isaiah 8:19, 20.
If spirit mediums could actually get in touch with the dead then God would not have label their practice as something “unclean,” “detestable” and deserving of death. If the communication were with dead loved ones, for example, then God of love would not designate this as a terrible crime. If so, He would not want to deprive the living of getting some comforting messages from the dead. God’s view indicates that people are not really talking to the dead but that a terrible deception is involved. Scriptural evidence shows that is the case.
Against this background, consider the case of Saul. Due to his unfaithfulness to Jehovah God, King Saul was cut off from divine direction for carrying out his responsibilities. Therefore, when the Philistines came to wage war against him, in desperation, he sought help from a spirit medium.
Regarding divine communication with him, Saul acknowledged: “God himself has departed from me and has answered me no more, either by means of the prophets or by dreams; so that I am calling you [Samuel] to let me know what I shall do.” (1 Samuel 28:15) Obviously, God would not allow a spirit medium to get around this divine cutoff of communication by getting in touch with a dead prophet and having him deliver a message from God to Saul. Then, too, during the latter part of his life, Samuel himself, a faithful prophet of God, had ceased to have any dealings whatsoever with Saul. Would it not be unreasonable, therefore, to conclude that Samuel was willing to speak with Saul by means of a spirit medium, an arrangement that was condemned by God? Manifestly, there must have been deception involved, something so unclean that spirit mediums and those consulting them merited the death sentence. Saul was not brought in touch with the dead prophet Samuel. It was a wicked spirit impersonating the dead prophet Samuel. That same deception must be behind claimed communication with the dead today.
Demonistic practices such as reading crystal balls, palmistry, casting hypnotic spells, consulting Ouija boards or spirit mediums are all abominable in Jehovah’s sight. Mediums that claim to speak with “departed spirits” are actually communicating with wicked spirits who impersonate dead persons. It is of interest that the Greek word here translated “practice of spiritism” is phar·ma·ki'a, which literally means “druggery.” In Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words we read:
“PHARMAKIA . . . primarily signified the use of medicine, drugs, spells; then, poisoning; then, sorcery, . . . See also Rev. 9:21; 18:23. . . . In sorcery, the use of drugs, whether simple or potent, was generally accompanied by incantations and appeals to occult powers, with the provision of various charms, . . . to impress the applicant with the mysterious resources and powers of the sorcerer.”
Persons today who take drugs such as opium, heroin, marijuana and other narcotics are laying themselves open to demon attacks. This is indicated in that some who have taken “trips” with drugs say that they ‘approached God,’ ‘expanded their minds,’ and so forth. Also to be tied in with “druggery” is addiction to betel nut or to tobacco, “unclean” practices that dull the senses and weaken the power to make right decisions, and that are devoid of neighbor love.-2 Corinthians 6:17–7:1.
Ok my beloved brother in Christ. I'm sorry if I'm not going to make corrections of what I've been posted before ,since I couldn't see any contradictions on it biblically. And thank you for your effort in sharing to me your own opinions,in the hopes of enlightening me even if there's no need to, I already was a long time ago. Trust me, Im much aware of spiritual warfare.
My deepest encouragement to you is to learn more about the Knowledge of God, Not the knowledge of this world,for this world,you will only find endless nonsense argument.
The Bible says in Jeremiah 1:4-5 that God has a perfect plan for everyone's life. In fact, before you were ever born, God has already established His will for your life. When you are born into this world, there is a satanic plan for you and there is also Gods plan for you. The moment you are saved the satanic loses control over your life. That's the reason why a fortune-teller can tell the future of unbeliever but Not a believer. Since, your life is hidden with Christ in God(Colossians 3:3)
Ok God bless you, brother.
My deepest encouragement to you is to learn more about the Knowledge of God, Not the knowledge of this world,for this world,you will only find endless nonsense argument.
The Bible says in Jeremiah 1:4-5 that God has a perfect plan for everyone's life. In fact, before you were ever born, God has already established His will for your life. When you are born into this world, there is a satanic plan for you and there is also Gods plan for you. The moment you are saved the satanic loses control over your life. That's the reason why a fortune-teller can tell the future of unbeliever but Not a believer. Since, your life is hidden with Christ in God(Colossians 3:3)
Ok God bless you, brother.
To RickShafer
Ok my beloved brother in Christ. I'm sorry if I'm not going to make corrections of what I've been posted before ,since I couldn't see any contradictions on it biblically. And thank you for your effort in sharing to me your own opinions,in the hopes of enlightening me even if there's no need to, I already was a long time ago. Trust me, Im much aware of spiritual warfare.
My deepest encouragement to you is to learn more about the Knowledge of God, Not the knowledge of this world,for this world,you will only find endless nonsense argument.
The Bible says in Jeremiah 1:4-5 that God has a perfect plan for everyone's life. In fact, before you were ever born, God has already established His will for your life. When you are born into this world, there is a satanic plan for you and there is also Gods plan for you. The moment you are saved the satanic loses control over your life. That's the reason why a fortune-teller can tell the future of unbeliever but Not a believer. Since, your life is hidden with Christ in God(Colossians 3:3)
Ok God bless you, brother.
Ok my beloved brother in Christ. I'm sorry if I'm not going to make corrections of what I've been posted before ,since I couldn't see any contradictions on it biblically. And thank you for your effort in sharing to me your own opinions,in the hopes of enlightening me even if there's no need to, I already was a long time ago. Trust me, Im much aware of spiritual warfare.
My deepest encouragement to you is to learn more about the Knowledge of God, Not the knowledge of this world,for this world,you will only find endless nonsense argument.
The Bible says in Jeremiah 1:4-5 that God has a perfect plan for everyone's life. In fact, before you were ever born, God has already established His will for your life. When you are born into this world, there is a satanic plan for you and there is also Gods plan for you. The moment you are saved the satanic loses control over your life. That's the reason why a fortune-teller can tell the future of unbeliever but Not a believer. Since, your life is hidden with Christ in God(Colossians 3:3)
Ok God bless you, brother.
D
He was in Abraham's Bosom. It was a place in the earth and if you read the story of Lazarus the beggar you can find out about it.
Of course being a Seventh Day Adventist, you believe all sorts of heresies like the soul does not exist when the body dies. If that is true, then why did Saul hope to speak with Samuel at all? Why did the disciples become terrified when they saw Jesus walk on the water and thought it was his ghost? It is because they believed in an afterlife.
Of course being a Seventh Day Adventist, you believe all sorts of heresies like the soul does not exist when the body dies. If that is true, then why did Saul hope to speak with Samuel at all? Why did the disciples become terrified when they saw Jesus walk on the water and thought it was his ghost? It is because they believed in an afterlife.
Yep, I had a feeling it would be you that would reply? Because you lack any good sense.
If Samuel was in Abrahams Bosom as you claim,, I guess that Means so is Saul,,,,, Because the one whom you claim to be Samuel said to Saul " And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me.".. Young man, don't you ever advise me on the things of God or on Doctrine, or on the state of the dead,, for you sit here and Proclaim to me and everybody else that Saul is with Samuel in Abrahams Bosom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You know next to nothing about the Scripture. And this Post certainly proves you don't know the difference between the dead and the demon that apes it.
If Samuel was in Abrahams Bosom as you claim,, I guess that Means so is Saul,,,,, Because the one whom you claim to be Samuel said to Saul " And tomorrow you and your sons will be with me.".. Young man, don't you ever advise me on the things of God or on Doctrine, or on the state of the dead,, for you sit here and Proclaim to me and everybody else that Saul is with Samuel in Abrahams Bosom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You know next to nothing about the Scripture. And this Post certainly proves you don't know the difference between the dead and the demon that apes it.
