Did you know the early church never gathered on Sunday?
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Hi Maynard,
Lets say that Christ really did only use Peter to establish his church and not any other apostles and the Holy Spirit. Where is there any legitimate documents that show Peter was the first Pope and then that Peter passed down all authority to the Catholic church other then the word of the Cathlic Church themself? Are there any writings from Peter that can make this claim?
Let's start with the easy one...
Rev 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,
What day in scripture is singled out as the Lord's Day? There are only three places a day is single out in the New Testament as being the day Christ is Lord of...
Mat 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
Luk 6:5 And he said unto them, That the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
And that day ain't Sunday.
In fact, the passage in Rev 1:10 is not speaking to ANY particular day but rather a time in the future known as the Day of the Lord. The one year period following the Tribulation when God Almighty intervenes dramatically and culminates with the inception of His Kingdom on earth.
If you disagree, please show me where Rev 1:10 refers to ANY particular day of the week.
Now for Acts 20:7
Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
First of all, when did the days begin? At sunset. Paul was preaching on Saturday night and continued to Midnight. After the miracle concerning Eutychus, notice that he continues to preach until morning. Now what morning is this? Sunday morning and what does Paul do on Sunday morning? He begins a 19 mile trek across the peninsula to meet with those who had sailed around previously...
Act 20:13 And we went before to ship, and sailed unto Assos, there intending to take in Paul: for so had he appointed, minding himself to go afoot.
Act 20:14 And when he met with us at Assos, we took him in, and came to Mitylene.
So, Paul kept this Sunday by walking 19 miles across the peninsula to Assos. Strange way to keep a Sunday mornin' go to meeting, isn't it?
Now for the passage in I Corinthians...
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
First let's read the entire passage...
1Co 16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
1Co 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
1Co 16:4 And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.
1Co 16:5 Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia.
1Co 16:6 And it may be that I will abide, yea, and winter with you, that ye may bring me on my journey whithersoever I go.
Verse 1 raises a question, what collections?
Act 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.
Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
Now let's read I Cor 16:2
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
Please notice here it says NOTHING about tossing money in the collection plate, it says for each to lay in store so that the gathering is ready when Paul comes to them. So if this is about passing the plate, then each should TAKE from the plate, take it to his home and store it up until Paul arrives.
1Co 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
Notice where they are taking these stores of dried foods and fruits? To Jerusalem. Why? We read that previously...
Act 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Act 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:
To send relief to the starving saints in the region of Judea. and who was going to do this?
1Co 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
And whom did they approve of?
Act 11:30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.
In Paul's second letter to the Corinthians, he makes these remarks concerning this collection for the starving saints...
2Co 9:1 For as touching the ministering to the saints, it is superfluous for me to write to you:
2Co 9:2 For I know the forwardness of your mind, for which I boast of you to them of Macedonia, that Achaia was ready a year ago; and your zeal hath provoked very many.
2Co 9:3 Yet have I sent the brethren, lest our boasting of you should be in vain in this behalf; that, as I said, ye may be ready:
2Co 9:4 Lest haply if they of Macedonia come with me, and find you unprepared, we (that we say not, ye) should be ashamed in this same confident boasting.
2Co 9:5 Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren, that they would go before unto you, and make up beforehand your bounty, whereof ye had notice before, that the same might be ready, as a matter of bounty, and not as of covetousness.
Notice verse 4? Paul again admonishes them to lay up in store, to be prepared for when he comes so that the foodstuffs can be taken to Judea.
There is nothing in the three passages you mentioned that refers to Sunday go to meetin' at all. These are the three famous passages that every young trainee learns to justify Sunday keeping and each falls apart with the slightest of scrutiny.
Lemme see here, did Christ use Peter in Rome?
Paul says this...
Rom 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
So, he preached the gospel where Christ was not named. So, if Peter was the bishop of Rome, what name was he preaching?
Also note that Paul did not build on another's foundation. So if Peter was the bishop of Rome then Paul would be building on his foundation.
In reality, Peter was not the bishop of Rome, on the contrary, he was sent to Israel...
Gal 2:7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;
1Pe 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
Peter was sent to the Diaspora.
That is what I am trying to find out. Where does the Catholic Church gets its authority other then a few wrongly interpreted scriptures. I want to know by what authority and documents they have from the earliest writings of Peter showing that Peter transferred authority to them. Where does Peter claim to be pope and where Does Peter transfer or bestow this authority to the Catholic church?
Who gave the Roman Catholic Church it's throne, it's power and it's great authority to change God's times and law and to do all the things it's done over the years and will continue to do? God tells us plainly.
Revelation 13:2 Now the beast which I saw was like a leopard, his feet were like the feet of a bear, and his mouth like the mouth of a lion. The dragon gave him his power, his throne, and great authority.
For more on this go here... Unlocking Bible Prophecy
Yes but what say the followers of the Catholic Church. Where do they think the Church gets its authority other a few bible passages?
I don't believe they even care or even know to question due to delusion. The Pope is God on earth to them.
"The Pope is of great authority and power that he can modify, explain, or interpret even divine laws... The Pope can modify divine law, since his power is not of man, but of God, and he acts as vicegerent of God upon earth." -Lucius Ferraris, Prompta Ribliotheca, "Papa," art. 2, translated.
"The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God. and the vicar of God." -Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary
"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in Heaven and earth." Pope Pius V, quoted in Barclay, Chapter XXVII, p. 218, "Cities Petrus Bertanous".
"The Pope and God are the same, so he has all power in heaven and earth."- BarclayCap. XXVII, p. 218. Cities Petrus Bertrandus, Pius V. - CardinalCusa supports hisstatement.
"The pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not a mere man (...) he is as it were God on earth, sole sovereign of the faithful of Christ, chief of kings, having plenitude of power." -Lucius Ferraris, «Prompta Bibliotheca», 1763, Volume VI, 'Papa II', pp.25-29
"The supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires (...) complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself." -Leo VIII, «On the Chief Duties of Christians as Citizens», Encyclical letter, 1890
"The supreme teacher in the Church is the Roman Pontiff. Union of minds, therefore, requires (...) complete submission and obedience of will to the Church and to the Roman Pontiff, as to God Himself." -Leo VIII, «On the Chief Duties of Christians as Citizens», Encyclical letter, 1890
This was all prophesied by God so His people would not be caught in the trap.
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The first day is Sunday.
God prohibited worship of himself on the first day because throughout scripture he directs Sabbath worship is to occur on the 7th day. Which would be Saturday.
[h=3]Exodus 20:8-11[/h] “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
There is nothing in scripture that changed this fact. There is no new testament scripture that says:
“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the first day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the first day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
Worship is something we do 7/24/365, not just one day a week. The foundation of true worship is established on obedience to the commandments of God. Honoring the seventh day is a commandment of God so when we honor the seventh day that in itself is an act of worship. You can't honor the seventh day on the first day and say you are worshiping God because honoring the first day in place of the seventh day is a man made tradition that has made void a commandment of God.
Matthew 15:5-8 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”—then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying: ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth, and honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me.
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It is called the Primacy of Peter and it is a complete corruption of this scripture...
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
In reality it says you are Petros...
G4074
Πέτρος
Petros
pet'-ros
Apparently a primary word; a (piece of) rock (larger than G3037); as a name, Petrus, an apostle: - Peter, rock. Compare G2786.
And upon this Rock...
G4073
πέτρα
petra
pet'-ra
Feminine of the same as G4074; a (mass of) rock (literally or figuratively): - rock.
I will build my church.
Peter being a part of the rock ( a (piece of) rock ) and Christ being The Rock.
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Peter, being an Apostle, was one of the foundational stones but Christ is the Chief Cornerstone.
You asked so I will answer...
Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to BlackPlatypus again.
I believe Jesus was referring to the mindset Peter had when he received insight directly from the Father to declare Jesus to be the Christ, the Son of the living God. A mind receiving directly from the Father through the Son is what the church is built on and it's having that mindset that removes the power of death to keep us in the grave.
REGARDING CHRIST'S CHURCH
Christ is the Cornerstone, the Apostles the foundation.
"...but you are citizens with the saints and also members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone."
Eph 2:19-20
But nevermind what that bible thingy says. Just pick and choose the stuff that suits you.
Christ is the Cornerstone, the Apostles the foundation.
"...but you are citizens with the saints and also members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone."
Eph 2:19-20
But nevermind what that bible thingy says. Just pick and choose the stuff that suits you.
So what makes your Sabbath so especial compare to the Sabbath of others?
What are the things you do or not do, that makes you so righteous than others.
You maybe in your congregation during Sabbath, while those who worship on Sunday are resting on Saturday?
What makes you more holy?