Different Gospels

[Thaddeus]

That's like saying that non-biblicists accpet more of what Paul taught than biblicists. I've quoted Paul's words on all this, clearly showing the differences between his preaching and that of the twelve, and you reject them. The dichotomy in your words are remarkable.

MM

You do not understand Paul's core message, that has already been proved. And in the posts you refused to address, it is quite clear Paul did not believe he was part of a different church
I'm afraid your knowledge of Paul's message is rather shallow

 

[rewriter]

Let's stay consistent with the OP:

So, are you saying that you can do those miracles Jesus promised would be an outflow from those who have the faith of which He spoke?

Are you admitting that you don't have the faith Jesus spoke of?

If you do have that faith, then why can you not do what He promised to Israel?

Do you have proof of that faith that you can show to us in video form, OR, are you going to fall back onto the cessationist arguments as a defense for believing in another gospel that cannot save today?

That's what's consistent with my OP. Paul going back to Jerusalem isn't at issue here. Please answer the questions posed in the OP and what I'm asking here, and THEN we can divert off into those other rabbit holes that have answers as well.

MM

Videos can be manipulated to show things that are not real. Jesus and the apostles performed any miracles they did in front of eyewitnesses. That is the only standard that should be accepted. And I would note that in at least some cases there are three possible responses to a miracle, to run away in fear, to simply ignore it or to accept it as a miracle and react accordingly. I have seen all three responses, sometimes to the same event.

 

[Musicmaster]

You do not understand Paul's core message, that has already been proved.

False claim.

And in the posts you refused to address, it is quite clear Paul did not believe he was part of a different church
I'm afraid your knowledge of Paul's message is rather shallow

I said nothing about a "different church."

It's interesting that your case rests upon false representation. Why not start being honest with what I actually said?

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

False claim.



I said nothing about a "different church."

It's interesting that your case rests upon false representation. Why not start being honest with what I actually said?

MM

It is not a false claim. You had no answers pertaining to scripture concerning Paul's core message, neither would you have to much else I could place before you.

 

[Musicmaster]

Videos can be manipulated to show things that are not real.

Moreso nowadays than every before.

Jesus and the apostles performed any miracles they did in front of eyewitnesses. That is the only standard that should be accepted.

I would travel any distance to see these people work the miracles, those who think they're functioning under the same Gospel as that preached by Christ Jesus, but the bottom line is that they're admitting their false beliefs before our eyes. They do slight of hand things such as pointing to the spiritual gifts, which are not of the same class as those stated by Christ Jesus and quoted in the OP.

And I would note that in at least some cases there are three possible responses to a miracle, to run away in fear, to simply ignore it or to accept it as a miracle and react accordingly. I have seen all three responses, sometimes to the same event.

Granted. I can say that dare any of these people walk into a hospital and start healing people while preaching the Gospel, I would not run away nor deny what I saw with my own eyes.

In religious services, those clownish exhibits are easily contrived, acted out by people who operate on the warped ethic of "the end justifies the means"...in that its ok to their thinking to portray the falsehoods of their healings in order to bolster the faith of others.

I agree with you about some responses that existed among the ancients who saw Jesus do wonderous things proven by those who knew the poor souls who were healed.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

It is not a false claim. You had no answers pertaining to scripture concerning Paul's core message, neither would you have to much else I could place before you.

You keep repeating the same old mantra about you allegedly having answered my question about you personally, and to avoid the rug burn, you place it on some other woman who nobody here knows, and likely not even you know.

Why are YOU not able to work those miracles Jesus promised would be performed by those who believe? Do you not have faith?

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

You keep repeating the same old mantra about you allegedly having answered my question about you personally, and to avoid the rug burn, you place it on some other woman who nobody here knows, and likely not even you know.

Why are YOU not able to work those miracles Jesus promised would be performed by those who believe? Do you not have faith?

MM

Your questions were addressed, and more than once, I even emboldened the response for you.
I understand you do not want to admit it, for then you would have to address the scriptures placed before you
Such as Paul submitting to the Jerusalem churches decision as to which Jewish laws gentiles be asked to follow.
Go on, give it a go, if you try hard enough, Im sure you will come up with something

 

[Thaddeus]

For Paul to submit to a decision reached by a church preaching a different gospel from him, to different people, in regards to which Jewish laws gentiles be asked to follow, would be far worse, than pentecostals submitting to the pope concerning doctrine.
They wouldn't of course, and neither would Paul!

 

[Musicmaster]

Your questions were addressed, and more than once, I even emboldened the response for you.
I understand you do not want to admit it, for then you would have to address the scriptures placed before you
Such as Paul submitting to the Jerusalem churches decision as to which Jewish laws gentiles be asked to follow.
Go on, give it a go, if you try hard enough, Im sure you will come up with something

When going back through this thread, you answered not once in any bold type the reason why YOU cannot do those miracles as promised by Jesus. You emboldened portions of some verses about what THEY did back then, but never once have you yet answered why YOU cannot do those things.

I can answer your other points and will do so once you answer my questions that I asked first and have repeated numerous times since, with you sitting there claiming you answered me, which you did nothing of the kind that I can find. If you think you answered as to why YOU can't do those things, then give us all a post number in this thread. Prove it.

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

When going back through this thread, you answered not once in any bold type the reason why YOU cannot do those miracles as promised by Jesus.

Post 55

Paul cast out spirits, and people were healed during Paul’s ministry, Paul spoke in tongues and a serpent could not kill him.

Things you say Jesus taught only to people not in the BOC. Your glaring inconsistencies are remarkable.

But as I previously told you, there is a price to pay, in order to have a healing ministry for example. A price very few will pay. It will not be paid by people making a god out of ‘’head theology’’ and desiring to spend their time discussing it. It will not be paid by people desiring a once a week Christianity consisting of simply turning up at church each week.

The Apostles gave up everything to spread the word and suffered much for it. They had such gifts working through them.

Your inability to understand this, shows a lack of spiritual discernment.

So as you find it hard to understand what I say I will embolden it:

I have never given up everything for the gospel, something I am ashamed of

BTW

So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders. Acts14:3

I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders and miracles. 2Cor12:12

 

[Musicmaster]

Post 55

Paul cast out spirits, and people were healed during Paul’s ministry, Paul spoke in tongues and a serpent could not kill him.

Things you say Jesus taught only to people not in the BOC. Your glaring inconsistencies are remarkable.

But as I previously told you, there is a price to pay, in order to have a healing ministry for example. A price very few will pay. It will not be paid by people making a god out of ‘’head theology’’ and desiring to spend their time discussing it. It will not be paid by people desiring a once a week Christianity consisting of simply turning up at church each week.

The Apostles gave up everything to spread the word and suffered much for it. They had such gifts working through them.

Your inability to understand this, shows a lack of spiritual discernment.

So as you find it hard to understand what I say I will embolden it:

I have never given up everything for the gospel, something I am ashamed of

BTW

So Paul and Barnabas spent considerable time there, speaking boldly for the Lord, who confirmed the message of his grace by enabling them to perform signs and wonders. Acts14:3

I persevered in demonstrating among you the marks of a true apostle, including signs, wonders and miracles. 2Cor12:12

Ok, so if you're resting your answer upon that, please elaborate your meaning. Are you saying that you don't have enough faith? I'm asking that because that's akin to a woman saying, "I'm not pregnant enough..." There's no middle ground. It's either, or.

So, if you would, please explain how that applies to YOU personally.

Where did Jesus ever say anything about giving up everything for the Gospel, because the text shows Him saying FAITH, not giving up something.

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

Ok, so if you're resting your answer upon that, please elaborate your meaning. Are you saying that you don't have enough faith? I'm asking that because that's akin to a woman saying, "I'm not pregnant enough..." There's no middle ground. It's either, or.

So, if you would, please explain how that applies to YOU personally.

MM

I do not need to explain further, it is very clearly written. Im confident anyone else reading what I wrote will completely understand. Maybe you suffer from lack of comprehension skills, or maybe there is another reason. Here is some of it again, just for your benefit:
But as I previously told you, there is a price to pay, in order to have a healing ministry for example. A price very few will pay. It will not be paid by people making a god out of ‘’head theology’’ and desiring to spend their time discussing it. It will not be paid by people desiring a once a week Christianity consisting of simply turning up at church each week.

The Apostles gave up everything to spread the word and suffered much for it. They had such gifts working through them.

I have never given up everything for the gospel, something I am ashamed of

 

[Thaddeus]

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Of course we do not know if Paul drank anything deadly and it did not hurt him. The rest of what Jesus wrote was replicated in Paul's life.
Interesting the op says these words of Christ are only for the kingdom gospel, not the BOC
Do they not believe Paul was part of the BOC, or are they confused?

 

[Musicmaster]

I do not need to explain further, it is very clearly written. Im confident anyone else reading what I wrote will completely understand. Maybe you suffer from lack of comprehension skills, or maybe there is another reason. Here is some of it again, just for your benefit:
But as I previously told you, there is a price to pay, in order to have a healing ministry for example. A price very few will pay. It will not be paid by people making a god out of ‘’head theology’’ and desiring to spend their time discussing it. It will not be paid by people desiring a once a week Christianity consisting of simply turning up at church each week.

The Apostles gave up everything to spread the word and suffered much for it. They had such gifts working through them.

I have never given up everything for the gospel, something I am ashamed of

What you did was bring forth elements of things not at all stated by Jesus, so no, you did not answer my question. Instead, you perpetrated the fallacies of "argument from irrelevance" (adding unrelated elements), non sequitur (the added parts don’t logically follow from the original quote), and even "quote distortion / misquotation" (sometimes framed as cherry-picking). Please show where Jesus said anything about giving up anything in relation to the ability to perform those miracles.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Of course we do not know if Paul drank anything deadly and it did not hurt him. The rest of what Jesus wrote was replicated in Paul's life.
Interesting the op says these words of Christ are only for the kingdom gospel, not the BOC
Do they not believe Paul was part of the BOC, or are they confused?

I didn't ask about Paul. I asked about YOU!

MM

 

[Thaddeus]

What you did was bring forth elements of things not at all stated by Jesus, so no, you did not answer my question. Instead, you perpetrated the fallacies of "argument from irrelevance" (adding unrelated elements), non sequitur (the added parts don’t logically follow from the original quote), and even "quote distortion / misquotation" (sometimes framed as cherry-picking). Please show where Jesus said anything about giving up anything in relation to the ability to perform those miracles.

MM

Unfortunatley you lack discernment(not for the first time) You need to be very close to Christ, for the more you are, the greater the work of the Holy Spirit in your life, the more the gifts of the spirit are shown.
There is head theology, and spiritual discernemnt, and never the twain shall meet

 

[Thaddeus]

I didn't ask about Paul. I asked about YOU!

MM

And you had my answer. But it is good to show, that what you believe was stated by Christ for those outside of the BOC was fully reflected in the life of the Apostle Paul

 

[Delvianna]

I think the pair of you don't understand spiritual gifts. Jesus didn't go around healing every person he came across. How many people were healed at the pool of Bathesda? ONE. Out of how many that sat by that pool trying to be healed? Multitudes. The idea of a "healing ministry" isn't biblical. The point given to what God can do, about poison and healing, and prophecy, and other spiritual gifts doesn't mean you get some super natural power and then go and use it like its the force from Star Wars. The decision and the decision alone rests with God. An example would be, let's say you're a missionary somewhere. One day God could cause you to speak in tongues to give a message to someone so they hear it in their own language. Or to heal someone or to cast out a demon. Someone tries to shoot at you with a gun, but the bullets do nothing because God is protecting you due to the purpose/mission he gave you. It's ALL situational and the decision on what to do and when rests on God alone... not the person. God directs, person complies.

 

[Thaddeus]

I think the pair of you don't understand spiritual gifts.

Then we are fortunate to have you to enlighten us

 

[Vucesa]

Your continued rejection of the word of God that has been quoted, showing the differing elements within the Kingdom Gospel in relation to the Gospel of Grace preached by Paul, that level of willful blindness is quite staggering in itself, and very modern and post modern.

Okay this is where it ends. MODERN? What you teach was invented like a hundred years ago. YOU are the modern one. But I guess you could be trolling as well, have a good day and may God rescue you out of that false doctrine.