Distinctives of Dispensationalism

[1still_waters]

But stilly! haven't you heard? The dedication of the Third Temple | JPost | Israel News i kid.

Yuck.
People trying to get the focus on the wrong temple.

1 Cor 3

[SUP]15 [/SUP]If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Do you not know that you[SUP][a][/SUP] are God's temple and that God's Spirit dwells in you? [SUP]17 [/SUP]If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. For God's temple is holy, and you are that temple.

Eph 2


[SUP]20 [/SUP]built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, [SUP]21 [/SUP]in whom the whole structure, being joined together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord. [SUP]22 [/SUP]In him you also are being built together into a dwelling place for God by[SUP][a][/SUP] the Spirit.

 

[zone]

I used to follow a page on Facebook called Now The End Begins. (don't do it. They'll kick you off for not conforming to their belief system.) I also used to subscribe to the same beliefs as Hagee, Van Impee, the Left Behind series (it's fiction for a reason ya'll),...pretty much what Darbyism promoted...

--that the Rapture would happen
--7 years of tribulation
--2nd coming
--millenial era...taken literally to mean Christ would physically reign exactly 1000 years and the Devil was temporarily locked up
--Satan sets off fireworks again
--Great Judgment when Satan/Devil is cast into Hell 'cause he's a loser.
--Christ iz a winner ferever!

That's what I used to believe. I got bad enough to where I even thought that Christ would come back in 2018 as his 2nd coming because the most literal dispensationalists believed that Christ would return a generation after Israel became a state. Van Impe usually uses the logic of 1948+70 (because an average generation is 70 years)=2018...minus the 7 years for tribulation...so he literally would convict everyone the Rapture would happen in 2011. He swore he didn't try to set dates though. Hence why I then thought the whole system was fishy. I used to be a devout watcher of his show on his website. But I've come out of the closet in my beliefs and I'm now persuades to be a preterist/amillenialist. There are beliefs of each of them which have logical and biblical support...and they make much more sense to me. Also as a dispensationalist, we kept looking at horrible events to see if they were truly signs of the end times...hence the page name that I used to be a part of on Facebook. It became an unhealthy obsession but since then I've been trained in a better school of thought! Dispensationalism leads to high levels of pessimism with the world. I know it because I've been through it. It's a strong belief I avoid now.

well it's awesome to come out of the closet, cuz ppl can PM you for help.

so would say it was like an addiction?

i posted yesterday some quotes by anti and former dispensationalists.

one said "a theological prison".

JesusChica1991,
was it hard getting out of it?
what steps did you take to come out of it?
was there an AHA moment?

i'm really interested in your story on this.
finding a way out is key. i think backing out the same way one went in is a good idea.
but what do you do if that's all you were ever taught?
just wondered how it went for you.
z

 

[zone]

Well then you may need to understand the proper timing of Daniel's 70th week then.

Because It takes place aftee the rapture.

1) there's no rapture

2) the tribulation - Jacob's trouble and Daniels 70th week are not all the same thing, man.

but dey all in the past.

why isn't this GOOD NEWS?

no horrible awful Antichrist slaughtering jews while the Grace Dispensation Parenthesis Clock Stop Mystery Gentile Ga......

 

[zone]

K.I haz another question.
Why in duh world would n e won think references to temples were about the past one, and not about some future one?







Jesus mentioned "these things" "you see here" "these great buildings" in reference to the very temple and stones they saw. We know those things he referenced, were destroyed in 70ad. Jesus wasn't pointing to non-existent buildings that didn't exist yet. He said those building/stones/etc. And those were destroyed in 70ad.

So why would we think the temple in Rev 11 references that?
Well because of how Rev 1 starts.





Ok, so the very stones/buildings of the temple Jesus pointed at were taken down in 70ad.
The temple events of Rev 11 were told to be done soon and near to the original readers. That very book mentions a temple and city being trodden over.

That's why some folks don't see a future temple. All references to a temple we see appear to point back to the same stones Jesus was pointing at. All references point to a time that was near/soon to them.

can i post 70AD pic?
like...one per month?

mix and match with hagee type-thing?
alternating months?

 

[JesusChica1991]

well it's awesome to come out of the closet, cuz ppl can PM you for help.

so would say it was like an addiction?

i posted yesterday some quotes by anti and former dispensationalists.

one said "a theological prison".

JesusChica1991,
was it hard getting out of it?
what steps did you take to come out of it?
was there an AHA moment?

i'm really interested in your story on this.
finding a way out is key. i think backing out the same way one went in is a good idea.
but what do you do if that's all you were ever taught?
just wondered how it went for you.
z

I go to an extremely credible Bible college now called Johnson University. That significantly aided in challenging my beliefs. Although I was not so big on believing the illuminati hogwash, i still believed all government was TERRIBLE. I was a subscriber to Dominion theology as taught my Pat Robertson (Note, I never said that our government isn't screwed up in the shell ) I read the Left Behind series as a teen...I read them twice. They were that good. But now, I'm not so convicted by them anymore. Pretty much, for me, being a dispensationalist was full of living my life in fear. I was extremely legalistic as well questioning my "saved/reborn status" because I did one thing wrong and always thought the Rapture would happen any second. But through my studies of Apocalyptic literature in general of the bible, there is absolute NO NOTION OF A SILENT RAPTURE. NONE. There is only one 2nd coming and that one is gonna be on display for ALL the world to see. There is nothing to support the idea that there will be a secret event. The only way it can be supported is if a verse is taken out of its original context to make it mean something it doesn't. The reality is people have been trying to worry about the end of the world ever since Zoroastrianism had an influence on Christian doctrine. The Pauline epistles are clear that we should keep doing our part to spread the Gospel. The only promised sign of His return is when the Gospel is spread to ALL peoples. Yes, people like to say that the internet has made that possible. Yes, in some places, it has. But reality also is most third world countries don't have access to the internet or the Gospel because their government censors it! It is idiocracy to think the whole world has been given the Gospel by now.

 

[1still_waters]

can i post 70AD pic?
like...one per month?

mix and match with hagee type-thing?
alternating months?

This iz your thread.

 

[PennEd]

The Restoration of the Nation Israel
The centuries of debate concerning the destiny of the Jewish people - and disputes among Biblical scholars on the issue of the eventual restoration of the nation of Israel - should have come to a close with the restoration of the Jewish homeland in 1948. The prophet Isaiah has anticipated this event when he penned:
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. -Isaiah 11:11, 12
"The second time?" The first regathering was after the Babylonian Captivity.[SUP]1[/SUP] The second regathering began as the 19th century drew to a close with the efforts of Theodr Herzl and others, and finally climaxed with the formal declaration on May 14, 1948, when the world listened on international radio to David Ben Gurion declaring that the name of the new Jewish homeland was "Israel."
(The debates as to whether the Old Testament passages were to be taken seriously or not should have ended on that date.)
PLEASE TAKE NOTE, ZONE AND ANY OTHERS THAT THINK ISRAEL'S EXISTENCE IS A COINCIDENCE.
The subsequent struggles of this tiny state against seemingly insurmountable armed enemies have, of course, been the legends of modern times.


The subsequent struggles of this tiny state against seemingly insurmountable armed enemies have, of course, been the legends of modern times.

 

[SarahM777]

I used to follow a page on Facebook called Now The End Begins. (don't do it. They'll kick you off for not conforming to their belief system.) I also used to subscribe to the same beliefs as Hagee, Van Impee, the Left Behind series (it's fiction for a reason ya'll),...pretty much what Darbyism promoted...

--that the Rapture would happen
--7 years of tribulation
--2nd coming
--millenial era...taken literally to mean Christ would physically reign exactly 1000 years and the Devil was temporarily locked up
--Satan sets off fireworks again
--Great Judgment when Satan/Devil is cast into Hell 'cause he's a loser.
--Christ iz a winner ferever!

That's what I used to believe. I got bad enough to where I even thought that Christ would come back in 2018 as his 2nd coming because the most literal dispensationalists believed that Christ would return a generation after Israel became a state. Van Impe usually uses the logic of 1948+70 (because an average generation is 70 years)=2018...minus the 7 years for tribulation...so he literally would convict everyone the Rapture would happen in 2011. He swore he didn't try to set dates though. Hence why I then thought the whole system was fishy. I used to be a devout watcher of his show on his website. But I've come out of the closet in my beliefs and I'm now persuades to be a preterist/amillenialist. There are beliefs of each of them which have logical and biblical support...and they make much more sense to me. Also as a dispensationalist, we kept looking at horrible events to see if they were truly signs of the end times...hence the page name that I used to be a part of on Facebook. It became an unhealthy obsession but since then I've been trained in a better school of thought! Dispensationalism leads to high levels of pessimism with the world. I know it because I've been through it. It's a strong belief I avoid now.

You're not alone.

 

[JesusChica1991]

You're not alone.

Did I mention the part about Russia and China wanting to go at war with the USA and Israel? That used to be me too. Now, not so much. The modern day Israel is NOT the same Israel of the Bible. The people are different now.

 

[SarahM777]

Did I mention the part about Russia and China wanting to go at war with the USA and Israel? That used to be me too. Now, not so much. The modern day Israel is NOT the same Israel of the Bible. The people are different now.

Same here,read all the stuff by Lindsey,early Lahay got through most of the Left Behind series. Lived in a whole lot of fear. Didn't get out of it till early to mid year last year.

 

[zone]

I go to an extremely credible Bible college now called Johnson University. That significantly aided in challenging my beliefs. Although I was not so big on believing the illuminati hogwash, i still believed all government was TERRIBLE. I was a subscriber to Dominion theology as taught my Pat Robertson (Note, I never said that our government isn't screwed up in the shell ) I read the Left Behind series as a teen...I read them twice. They were that good. But now, I'm not so convicted by them anymore. Pretty much, for me, being a dispensationalist was full of living my life in fear. I was extremely legalistic as well questioning my "saved/reborn status" because I did one thing wrong and always thought the Rapture would happen any second. But through my studies of Apocalyptic literature in general of the bible, there is absolute NO NOTION OF A SILENT RAPTURE. NONE. There is only one 2nd coming and that one is gonna be on display for ALL the world to see. There is nothing to support the idea that there will be a secret event. The only way it can be supported is if a verse is taken out of its original context to make it mean something it doesn't. The reality is people have been trying to worry about the end of the world ever since Zoroastrianism had an influence on Christian doctrine. The Pauline epistles are clear that we should keep doing our part to spread the Gospel. The only promised sign of His return is when the Gospel is spread to ALL peoples. Yes, people like to say that the internet has made that possible. Yes, in some places, it has. But reality also is most third world countries don't have access to the internet or the Gospel because their government censors it! It is idiocracy to think the whole world has been given the Gospel by now.

fascinating.

so in some subconscious way your salvation (assurance) was tied to needing to believe the rapture + dispie stuff?

like....that was actually the gospel, kinda?

and - what about the Christian Zionist element? how much of a role did that play?

was there the Israel-first because of the distinct people thing?
like Israel is the focus of everything, not Jesus?



and lastly, welcome to antisemticreplacemtntheologyantinomianamillennislaistwhatchamacallit.
tm diggs

 

[zone]

This iz your thread.

oh ya!

 

[Kerry]

Dispensations have nothing to with salvation nor the gospel. Dispensations just describe how God dealt differently with man at different times. So to say the dispensation of innocence, conscious, law, grace and so on. Some put to much into it and some battle against it. Whats the point and what difference does it make? The main and overall theme is the cross. Its not taboo nor is something that brings one closer to God. It is just a format of study that points to the cross. I don't thimk that anyone can deny that God has and will deal differently with man at different times, in fact He deals differently with me than He does you. Yet the core is the same and that is the cross.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

1) there's no rapture

There is a Rapture, a catching away.

2) the tribulation - Jacob's trouble and Daniels 70th week are not all the same thing, man.

but dey all in the past.

Nope. The time of Jacob's trouble is in the near future. After the Rapture.

why isn't this GOOD NEWS?

no horrible awful Antichrist slaughtering jews while the Grace Dispensation Parenthesis Clock Stop Mystery Gentile Ga......

The antichrist (the beast, man of sin, son of perdition) will show up in Daniel's 70th week.


But the good news Zone is that we (the Body of Christ) won't be here.

 

[JesusChica1991]

fascinating.

so in some subconscious way your salvation (assurance) was tied to needing to believe the rapture + dispie stuff?

like....that was actually the gospel, kinda?

and - what about the Christian Zionist element? how much of a role did that play?

was there the Israel-first because of the distinct people thing?
like Israel is the focus of everything, not Jesus?



and lastly, welcome to antisemticreplacemtntheologyantinomianamillennislaistwhatchamacallit.
tm diggs

Dispies as you would have it tend to believe that the literal state of Israel has prophecies yet to be fulfilled for them. I'm pro-Israel. Don't get me wrong. But, I'm not pro-Israel for the same reasons that dispies are. They tend to believe that Israel is still 100% Jewish. However, in reality, we all know that isn't the case. Three of my profs have lived in Israel over the summer and most of the people are actually atheistic. All of the "pro Israel" attitude for the dipsies stems from the whole belief that we should support Israel because bad things happen to countries which do not support Israel. They tend to miss some of the implications of spiritual Israel as elaborated by Paul several times in Romans. One of the ones they miss is where Paul says "that not all Israel is indeed Israel".

 

[peacefulbeliever]

My 2 cents (for what it's worth!): I am a dispensationalist. I have only read one Lindsey book and that was required reading in high school. Haven't read any 'Left Behind' books. I don't live in fear! I have a better understanding of the Bible than I ever have and I am secure in my salvation. It's just an understanding of scripture and God's relationship to men at different times in history; therefore called dispensations.

I thought this thread was titled Distinctives of Dispensationalism? I have only read debate over end time prophecy!

 

[zone]

The Restoration of the Nation Israel

The centuries of debate concerning the destiny of the Jewish people - and disputes among Biblical scholars on the issue of the eventual restoration of the nation of Israel - should have come to a close with the restoration of the Jewish homeland in 1948. The prophet Isaiah has anticipated this event when he penned:

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

HA?

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. -Isaiah 11:11, 12
"The second time?" The first regathering was after the Babylonian Captivity.[SUP]

oh you know your Bible.

you "left out" Egypt.

The second regathering began as the 19th century drew to a close with the efforts of Theodr Herzl and others, and finally climaxed with the formal declaration on May 14, 1948, when the world listened on international radio to David Ben Gurion declaring that the name of the new Jewish homeland was "Israel."

you "left out" Egypt.
the second time was out of Babylon.

who cares what hostile terrorist Ben Gurion said?

he wasn't a disciple of Christ.
not having the Son means not having the father.

but that means nothing to you.
eh...Jesus...take Him or leave Him - God owes hostile unbelievers LAND (not)

(The debates as to whether the Old Testament passages were to be taken seriously or not should have ended on that date.)

why?
you left out Egypt.
why should i take anything you say seriously.

you do not know the scriptures.

PLEASE TAKE NOTE, ZONE AND ANY OTHERS THAT THINK ISRAEL'S EXISTENCE IS A COINCIDENCE.

i've never said it is a coincidence.

The subsequent struggles of this tiny state against seemingly insurmountable armed enemies have, of course, been the legends of modern times.

yes....the legends.

The subsequent struggles of this tiny state against seemingly insurmountable armed enemies have, of course, been the legends of modern times.

yes, the legends.

JESUS? no biggie.
He's for gentiles.

Ben Gurion and Co are covered by the Land Promise to Abraham (that was fulfilled long ago).
beliefs like yours come in handy. for unbelievers who are living in a fantasy about being in Covenant with God.

and you're acting the harlot with them.
cuz ya think God will curse ya - why don't you read the Bible PennEd?

get saved.

good bye.

 

[Kerry]

Not to derail or maybe for a moment. The same could be said about numerology ( did I spell that wrong). Anyway you know 3 the number of God, 6 =man, 7=perfection, 12 = government, 40= completion. What does that do for me. How is it going to help me in my daily struggle. It just tickles the intellect of man and has nothing to do with power of God and that is the preaching of the cross. It all culminates at the foot of the cross. Slice it, diceit anyway you can and thats where it ends. IT IS FINISHED.

 

[zone]

But the good news Zone is that we (the Body of Christ) won't be here. [/SIZE]

you're already gone Chosen.
there's no pretrib rapture.
its about the dumbest thing christians ever bought into.

 

[zone]

My 2 cents (for what it's worth!): I am a dispensationalist. I have only read one Lindsey book and that was required reading in high school. Haven't read any 'Left Behind' books. I don't live in fear! I have a better understanding of the Bible than I ever have and I am secure in my salvation. It's just an understanding of scripture and God's relationship to men at different times in history; therefore called dispensations.

I thought this thread was titled Distinctives of Dispensationalism? I have only read debate over end time prophecy!

well peaceful, you're a pretty consistent dispensationalist (Bullingerism).
list the distinctives you think define dispensationalism.

Israel and the church are separate?

as Darby said "The Jew shall never enter the Christian Church"?