L
LPT
Guest
Hey one of mine as well, I use a mixture of the Travis pick and the rolling pick to play the song, hard to simulate three guitars hehe..
Do genuine ex-Christians exist? (Discussion Topic)
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Hey one of mine as well, I use a mixture of the Travis pick and the rolling pick to play the song, hard to simulate three guitars hehe..
L
LPT
Guest
Love the song
, I agree as well, feelings can be wrong at times or feelings can be right at times depends on what we have learned is correct and not correct. the heart can be deceitful the question is how was it brought to a point of being deceitful it learned the wrong things not the right things. there is a author behind deceitfulness. hearts are not born deceitful it learns to be deceitful by lies and falseness from others or direct from the father of lies.
J
joefizz
Guest
Why did my mind just get stuck on a Kansas song from the 70s?
because you're a generation or two removed from being statistically likely to know Klay Scott's old Christian electro-industrial metal band ((whose name also begins with a K & who may have been in some way inspired by a certain unnamed Kansas song)), Circle of Dust . . ?
and maybe you didn't waste afternoons watching 'Days of Our Lives' haha
Why did my mind just get stuck on a Kansas song from the 70s?
or maybe you just know something about a certain 'mighty rushing wind'
J
joefizz
Guest
Yeah I was on the fence for the majority of my life so there's certainly time to "consider" one's stance "before" committing to it.
L
LPT
Guest
L
LPT
Guest
A
Ariel82
Guest
Don't have much time but really am curious about why you turned away from God?
Who do you believe God is?
Have you prayed? Does He answer your prayers?
How does your rejection of God help you deal with?
L
LPT
Guest
L
LPT
Guest
Hi
As someone who is 100% certain of the fact that they are God's child I fail to see how it could happen that someone doesn't believe anymore; I can appreciate someone being in denial and sticking their head in the sand as it where, and the Bible does say that the Devil comes to steal, kill and destroy and that we must watch out for the great deceiver, but I'm inclined to also think that God will not give up on His own no matter how deluded they may have become, because He loves them so much that He actually died for them. The fact you are even on this site makes me wonder whether even that is Hos mercy on you...I'm sure a lot of things have happened to you since you were 10 and just because you are at this place right now does not mean that the Lord can't bring you back to Him. If someone really, truly knew Almighty God and then willingly rejected Him, this seems completely crazy to me; who would want to do that it's really stupid; but if someone is deceived for example into blaming God for stuff in life that was actually someone else's fault then, as the Bible tells us, our hearts are deceitful and desperately wicked and we can't know our own hearts.
The best way to settle this matter is to just ask God sincerely from your heart if He is real, if you were ever truly saved, and if so are you still His child...just have a tiny bit of trust and I'm certain He will answer you. I hope this is a help to you; I have had various encounters with God and the truth is that no matter what, I know for a fact that I am His and that He answers me when I ask Him from a sincere heart.
with love
Skylar x
Well...this topic got sidetracked a bit. Lots of comments to read through. Lots of different things being said. I wanted to comment on some of it.
There were quite a few people who attacked my claim to having genuine faith solely because I said the sinner's prayer as a child. As if somehow performing that one act invalidated anything that followed. Look, the sinner's prayer is a statement of faith. It's an outward sign of someone ready to surrender to Christ and begin a journey of faith dedicated in service to God. It is not some magical incantation that grants me salvation and now I can just go back to my normal life. I never believed it was. Billy Graham was a huge proponent of the sinner's prayer. Was his faith not genuine simply because he believed in that practice? Look, the true mark of a believer is not from saying some little prayer once long ago. I know this; I always have. Having a heart that is repentant, full of love for the Lord and for others, surrendering to Jesus. These are the marks of a believer. Someone who exhibits a living faith, not just a mental state of mind. And yes, it is not my doing, not without God's abundant grace and His calling on my life to serve him. My salvation was His glory, and His alone. This is what I believed.
Why am I here? Some people have asked that. No, I am not a troll. I am not here to cause trouble or play tricks or deconvert anybody. I honestly just came here to get a Christian's perspective on what you make of ex-Christians. Because your perspective is unique. For the nonChristian, a deconversion is simply someone who stopped believing in some religion. Like someone leaving Islam. But we know, those of us who are/were Christians, that this religion is a little different. It's not just a religion; it's a relationship. So when someone who professes to have been born again loses their faith and no longer believes, what does the Christian make of that?
I've received varied responses.
Many say that it's simply not possible. I think I've addressed that as much as I can. And it depends if you adhere to Calvinist teachings as to how much leeway you can have on this as a Christian. If you are a Calvinist, there is simply no room for someone like me in that theology. So you have no choice but to just dismiss me straightaway. Why even bother hearing me out when you know that there is no way any true believer could leave the faith? That's because as a Calvinist, you believe God chooses who to save and who not save, and we have no say in the matter. There is nothing the unsaved can do to change their situation; they are damned at birth. Likewise, salvation is a mandate to those chosen by God; it is not an invitation. The cold reality about this point of view, if true, is that when I was a young boy, and I told God that I loved Him, and asked Him to forgive me of sin and help me to be like Him...God said no, I want nothing to do with you. And as I lived my young Christian life, and I went to bed at night thanking God for the day and telling Him that I loved Him....God ignored it. He wanted nothing to do with me. Because apparently I'm not one of the elect. That kind of coldheartedness....it's a hard pill to swallow.
As for everyone else who does not adhere to Calvinism but still doesn't believe a true Christian could ever walk away. I just ask why couldn't they. If salvation is in fact an invitation. If God's calling is through the gospel message, reaching out to anyone who hears it with an invitation to come follow Him, and receive God's gift of salvation, given through grace, then does it not follow that one can freely exit what they had freely entered into? You may ask how I could possibly walk away from God after experiencing His presence in my life? Well, it wasn't easy. It was a very hard and difficult process. As I said previously, I struggled mightily to keep my faith, but could not in the end.
Finally, others said I must of had a weak faith...been an immature Christian perhaps. I was a diehard, all-in Christian for most of my Christian life. I prayed, I worshiped, I studied his word. Feed the spirit - I remember my youth pastor saying one day. Feed the fire inside you so you do not grow lukewarm. That is what I did. I had, under any reasonable measurement, an extremely strong faith. And yes, that strong faith was beaten and battered until it became weak. Weak enough to lose altogether. But it was not always weak. And I think that's important to clarify.
There were quite a few people who attacked my claim to having genuine faith solely because I said the sinner's prayer as a child. As if somehow performing that one act invalidated anything that followed. Look, the sinner's prayer is a statement of faith. It's an outward sign of someone ready to surrender to Christ and begin a journey of faith dedicated in service to God. It is not some magical incantation that grants me salvation and now I can just go back to my normal life. I never believed it was. Billy Graham was a huge proponent of the sinner's prayer. Was his faith not genuine simply because he believed in that practice? Look, the true mark of a believer is not from saying some little prayer once long ago. I know this; I always have. Having a heart that is repentant, full of love for the Lord and for others, surrendering to Jesus. These are the marks of a believer. Someone who exhibits a living faith, not just a mental state of mind. And yes, it is not my doing, not without God's abundant grace and His calling on my life to serve him. My salvation was His glory, and His alone. This is what I believed.
Why am I here? Some people have asked that. No, I am not a troll. I am not here to cause trouble or play tricks or deconvert anybody. I honestly just came here to get a Christian's perspective on what you make of ex-Christians. Because your perspective is unique. For the nonChristian, a deconversion is simply someone who stopped believing in some religion. Like someone leaving Islam. But we know, those of us who are/were Christians, that this religion is a little different. It's not just a religion; it's a relationship. So when someone who professes to have been born again loses their faith and no longer believes, what does the Christian make of that?
I've received varied responses.
Many say that it's simply not possible. I think I've addressed that as much as I can. And it depends if you adhere to Calvinist teachings as to how much leeway you can have on this as a Christian. If you are a Calvinist, there is simply no room for someone like me in that theology. So you have no choice but to just dismiss me straightaway. Why even bother hearing me out when you know that there is no way any true believer could leave the faith? That's because as a Calvinist, you believe God chooses who to save and who not save, and we have no say in the matter. There is nothing the unsaved can do to change their situation; they are damned at birth. Likewise, salvation is a mandate to those chosen by God; it is not an invitation. The cold reality about this point of view, if true, is that when I was a young boy, and I told God that I loved Him, and asked Him to forgive me of sin and help me to be like Him...God said no, I want nothing to do with you. And as I lived my young Christian life, and I went to bed at night thanking God for the day and telling Him that I loved Him....God ignored it. He wanted nothing to do with me. Because apparently I'm not one of the elect. That kind of coldheartedness....it's a hard pill to swallow.
As for everyone else who does not adhere to Calvinism but still doesn't believe a true Christian could ever walk away. I just ask why couldn't they. If salvation is in fact an invitation. If God's calling is through the gospel message, reaching out to anyone who hears it with an invitation to come follow Him, and receive God's gift of salvation, given through grace, then does it not follow that one can freely exit what they had freely entered into? You may ask how I could possibly walk away from God after experiencing His presence in my life? Well, it wasn't easy. It was a very hard and difficult process. As I said previously, I struggled mightily to keep my faith, but could not in the end.
Finally, others said I must of had a weak faith...been an immature Christian perhaps. I was a diehard, all-in Christian for most of my Christian life. I prayed, I worshiped, I studied his word. Feed the spirit - I remember my youth pastor saying one day. Feed the fire inside you so you do not grow lukewarm. That is what I did. I had, under any reasonable measurement, an extremely strong faith. And yes, that strong faith was beaten and battered until it became weak. Weak enough to lose altogether. But it was not always weak. And I think that's important to clarify.
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Was Demas a "true Christian"?
Col 4:14) Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.
Phlm 1:24) Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.
Paul sent regards from him, and he considered Demas a fellow-laborer. But towards the end of Paul's ministry/life, Demas had forsaken him. So did Titus.
2 Tim 4:10) For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
I know that some will say that Demas did not stop being a believer, just that he stopped following Paul. I'm not sure the text supports that belief.
I believe that Demas was a true Christian, and that he will participate in the rapture of the Christian church. But he'll have to answer for his actions, and will probably forfeit some rewards.
Col 4:14) Luke, the beloved physician, and Demas, greet you.
Phlm 1:24) Marcus, Aristarchus, Demas, Lucas, my fellowlabourers.
Paul sent regards from him, and he considered Demas a fellow-laborer. But towards the end of Paul's ministry/life, Demas had forsaken him. So did Titus.
2 Tim 4:10) For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.
I know that some will say that Demas did not stop being a believer, just that he stopped following Paul. I'm not sure the text supports that belief.
I believe that Demas was a true Christian, and that he will participate in the rapture of the Christian church. But he'll have to answer for his actions, and will probably forfeit some rewards.
OK, according to the Word of GOD....If you are a True Believer or Was ever a True Believer, You are sealed and Jesus will not lose one believer that His Father gave HIM.
If on the other hand You were not a True Believer, then You are NOT sealed and subject to God's Judgement.
It is between you and GOD...Not You and someone on this forum or thread who hopes to answer your question....
God will answer it in one of two ways. If I were you I would be very afraid as to the outcome might be?
Good Luck
Blade
You said, "I struggled mightily to keep my faith, but could not in the end." What was the opposing force that ended it? I know you don't wish to go down this path of discussion, but if we are considering what is really important in this encounter with you, shouldn't we get to the meat of the discussion? Why do you now reject what you once loved?
Sorry dude. I call your post absolute baloney, and continue to contend that either you are here in a vain attempt to draw God's children away from Him, or are yourself drawn here by the Lord after walking a prodigal road.
You have yet to answer the passage stated here a hundred times that the fact that you didn't remain believing PROVES that you were never Christian to begin with. That's not OUR take. That's what Scripture says.
Are you doing a research paper? What the heck does an atheist care what a true Christian thinks about a "former" Christian being an atheist. I do think you may in fact be spiritually dead, because if you weren't, you would KNOW that you can't touch a truly born again child of God.
Make us all happy, and say you WANT to come running back to the Fathers arms. Absent that, we're pretty much done here.
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The ironic is that at one point in my life I was also 100% certain of the fact that I was God's child, and I also could not comprehend how anyone could just not believe anymore.
Some others have mentioned this as well. I guess I need to clarify. My struggle led me to nonbelief in Christianity. I am not dealing with some sort of thing where I still believe God exists but just choose to reject Him. That would be very nonsensical.
No such thing as a ex-Christian. They are born again of the incorruptible eternal seed and not the temporal seed of the flesh of men .