Do protestants have a reasonable non-Roman-Catholic explanation for John 20:22-23?
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I don't agree with the practice of claiming an ambiguous passage supports only one side. I think it is better to concede when a passage is not really a slam-dunk a proof text.
So your church is not made up oh humans, just ghosts and spirits, or ‘animal church’.
Why the one HOLY SPIRIT gives different guidance to various denominations?
for example: infant baptism, predestination, once saved always saved….etc
Neither your statement nor my response says anything about my church. Your extrapolation is baseless.
Being that I'm an Adventist Protestant of the Roman Catholic Church's, claim to authority, by Apostolic Succession, by deceptively claiming that Peter was the Rock, that Jesus was to build His Church.
Let me give EG White's understanding, for a Protestant's point of view, "in other words" as "beechan" asked for (.. while defending his religion.)
Understanding Matthew 16:18 in Light of Ellen White’s Writings and the KJV Scriptures
1. What the Text Says
“And I also say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
— Matt 16:18 (KJV)
The verse contains three distinct ideas:— Matt 16:18 (KJV)
- Peter’s designation – “Thou art Peter.”
- The “rock” on which the church will be built – “upon this rock I will build my church.”
- The promise of endurance – “the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.”
2. Ellen White’s View of the Passage
Ellen White treats this text as Christ’s declaration of the foundation of the church, not as a grant of institutional supremacy to any later human hierarchy. Key excerpts include:
Source Quote (paraphrased) Emphasis The Desire of Ages (p. 643)“Christ gave Peter a name that means ‘rock.’ He set him apart for a special ministry, yet the true rock is the sacrifice of the Saviour and the truth of the gospel that He taught.” The “rock” is Christ’s atoning work, not Peter’s personality.Early Writings (p. 184)“ The church is built upon the faithful testimony of the apostles and the power of the Holy Spirit, not upon any earthly throne.” Authority flows from the Spirit, not from a human office.Patriarchs and Prophets (p. 399)“ The gates of Hades will never overcome the church that stands on the grace of God and the obedience of believers.”Endurance comes from divine grace, not institutional continuity.
From these passages we can draw two central points:
- The “rock” is primarily Christ Himself and His atoning sacrifice, the ultimate foundation of the church.
- Peter’s role is that of a faithful servant and witness, a model for leadership, but not a permanent, exclusive office that transmits authority through an unbroken line of successors.
a. “Rock” as Christ
- 1 Cor 10:4 – “...and did eat spiritual meat and drank spiritual drink … for they drank of the spiritual Rock that followed them.”
The “spiritual Rock” is identified with Christ (the source of life‑giving sustenance). - Psalm 118:22 (quoted by Jesus in Matt 21:42) – “The stone which the builders rejected is become the chief corner‑stone.”
Jesus applies this to Himself, indicating that He, not a human, is the cornerstone.
- John 21:15‑17 – Jesus entrusts Peter with “feed my sheep,” a pastoral commission, not a claim of universal jurisdiction.
- Acts 2:14‑41 – Peter’s preaching initiates the church, but the Holy Spirit empowers all believers (Acts 2:42‑47). The early church operates as a body of believers rather than a hierarchical monarchy.
- Eph 6:12 – The “gates of Hades” represent spiritual forces opposed to God. The victory belongs to Christ’s finished work and the indwelling Spirit, not to any human institution.
Claim Scriptural / Ellen‑White Basis Against It Peter = the exclusive, perpetual head of the church• The “rock” is identified elsewhere as Christ (1 Cor 10:4; Ps 118:22). • Ellen White stresses that the church’s foundation is the gospel truth, not a single person.Apostolic succession guarantees the Pope’s authority• The New Testament shows all believers receiving the Spirit (Acts 2:38‑39) and sharing leadership (Acts 15:22‑29). • Ellen White notes that true authority comes from the Holy Spirit’s guidance, not from lineage.The promise “gates of Hades shall not prevail” protects a specific institutional hierarchy• The promise refers to the eternal triumph of Christ’s work (Eph 1:19‑21). • Ellen White links the promise to God’s grace sustaining the faithful, irrespective of human organization.
Thus, the verse affirms the durability of the church built on Christ and the special role given to Peter, but it does not confer a perpetual, exclusive jurisdiction that can be inherited by a later office holder.
5. A Balanced Summary
- Peter’s Naming – Jesus honored Peter with a name meaning “rock,” signifying a key leadership role among the apostles.
- The True Rock – Both Scripture and Ellen White point to Jesus Christ Himself (His atonement, truth, and person) as the ultimate foundation of the church.
- Authority Flow – The Holy Spirit distributes gifts and governance throughout the body of believers (1 Cor 12). No single human office holds exclusive, divinely‑appointed authority over the entire worldwide church.
- Enduring Promise – The assurance that “the gates of Hades shall not prevail” rests on Christ’s victorious work, not on any particular ecclesiastical structure.
You have it BACKWARDs .. The Holy Spirit's guidance ( The Righteousness of Christ = Truth ) is understood differently, by the different groups of people, "denominations" , depending on their particular "leaders & pastors" corrupted doctrinal teachings, by their propensity & love for SIN = Un-Righteousness
He doesn't. People misunderstand the Holy Spirit, just as people can misunderstand one another. If I think you said X and someone else thinks you said Y, that does nt mean we are listening to a different you.
We were driving past a field of calves and a field of car carcasses yesterday. I said to Sharon,
" Lots of calves around." She replied,
"Yeah. If only someone would line them up in rows and mow around them." I replied,
"What are we talking about?"
"All those cars."
"Oh. No. I said 'Lots of calves around.' "
We both heard me say "Lots of calves around." But one of us misheard me. That doesn't mean there were two different me-s involved in the conversation.
why are you so sure you are not among those who misunderstood and misheard the Holy Spirit.
You can "test the spirits" to know of which spirit it is of ... it's easy .. there are ONLY two spirits in the world, since creation...
One advocates for disobedience AND promotes the AntiChrist spirit, ... and the other believes and obeys Jesus, unto Salvation.
"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1
AND "you shall know them by their fruits", what they do and what comes our of their mouth ..
"You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?" Matt 7:16
What is your test result of your spirit?
What kind of spirit is upon you, especially I have pointed out to you how you have misread and misinterpreted the scriptures.
I'm not claiming that I am infallibly understanding scripture. I, like the pope and you are among the people James warns make many mistakes.
Jas 3:2
Indeed, we all make many mistakes. For if we could control our tongues, we would be perfect and could also control ourselves in every other way.
I try to acknowledge when Greek and Hebrew texts are ambiguous, and leave people free to believe as they wish. I also try to point out when ideologues are making extravagant assertions for which they have no true basis for the certainty they are claiming to possess. .
He doesn't give different guidance. As I explained in my previous post.
Jas 3:2
Indeed, we all make many mistakes. For if we could control our tongues, we would be perfect and could also control ourselves in every other way.
If there is only one guidance, then which denominations must have misheard it? or ALL of them?
In the Old Testament, God only spoke to Moses and Moses spoke to the rest of Israelites.
Now, your saying is Holy Spirit speaks to 'many Moses', ( >40000 denominations)and 'many Moses' speak to the lay people. Some 'Moses' have misheard the message.
The priests of Moses represented the people to God.
The priests of Melchizedek represent God to the people. This is done by grace of which all believers have part.
Because all are priests in Christ authority is granted because of maturity, eldership. This comes by walking with the Lord.
It makes sense, using these principles, that James the brother of Jesus would have greater authority than Peter. That’s why James the brother of Jesus ruled over the council in Jerusalem.
What if the apostles didn't baptize someone or even chose not to, but another believer did.
ALL denominations have misheard the Holy Spirit's guidance. What part of James 3:1-2 do you not understand ?
Jas 3:1
Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged more strictly.
Jas 3:2
Indeed, we all make many mistakes. For if we could control our tongues, we would be perfect and could also control ourselves in every other way.
No denomination has everything correct.
God does not require perfect understanding in His children. He does require us to love Jesus above all else and to demonstrate mercy and grace towards others.
Can anyone here who understands what this guy is talking about, please translate the post into simple, comprehensible English>?(especially to @DeanM because you gave hime a 'LIKE')