Do Satan and his angels still have access to heaven?

[Clayman]

The events of Revelation 12 have not yet occured, but they occur near the end of the world. In terms of Satan having access to heaven until then, yes, this is seen in book of Job.

Ive heard this from numerous people, I think what they are saying is this, in the book of Job which is placed chronologically before a lot of events in the book of Genesis we know Satan had access to heaven, and therefore it proves he has access now, The problem I have with this logic is that I find it similar to this type of reasoning. Job also offered sacrifices to God So we should also offer sacrifices to God!

We dont because we know circumstances have changed, So I would like to point out that just because people show Satan had access to heaven in the book of Job (by the way I dont think that is even the point in Job but the opposite) it does not prove in any way that he has access now.

In terms of the fallen angels it's a matter of two groups of fallen angels, one that fell in the past near the time of the Flood (thus neccessitating the Flood in part). For these angels, no, they cannot access heaven nor the Earth, because they are in chains in hell right now, expressly bound in hell and unable to go anywhere reserved in chains of darkness until the end.

I dont think Gen 6 is talking about the fallen angels, but if there is a verse that supports this notion I dont know of it and would be interested to hear it, Interesting enough there are two accounts of angels being thrown to earth in Rev 12 whether its one group or two groups is another discussion. But in Rev 12:4 The dragons tail throws a third of the stars to the earth and the timing is specific that its when the Child is Born.

This account is a picture of the one third of the angels following Satan, and being removed from their habitation,( hence they now look for habitation on earth) and end up tormenting men, this lines up with the gospel accounts and we can see numerous amounts of demonic possession throughout the Gospel accounts, and I agree that these fallen angels were cast out and are now in chains (just disagree with the timing of the fall) which is why there is currently no demon possession in this day and age.

I know some fringe people are going to say but there was demon possession at the time of Christ so that proves there's demon possession now, But its the same fallacy as people use to show that Job proves Satan has access to heaven now. Just because something has happened in the past does not make it a rule it has to keep happening.

The second group of angels that fall with Satan in the Apocalypse are to be presumed to still be in heaven and to be angels still, perhaps he has seduced some of them through time up there and some have already sided with him (based on the apostles warning that if even an angel of heaven brings a contrary Gospel than the true Gospel that they are accursed) or perhaps they will be seduced en masse close to the time of the end when Satan makes his fated futile gambit for the Throne. Either way it will be futile for Satan to make his war in the heavens and him and the angels that side with him gets flawlessly defeated, thwarted by the loyal holy angels led by Michael the archangel. When Satan and the Apocalyptic Fallen Angels are thrown down to the Earth, they will be on the Earth in those days for certain, it will not be possible to miss this event since Satan and a third of the entire angels that side with him will be openly on Earth and unable to go back up to heaven.

Think of it like this, God throws them down like a slab of meat is thrown down on to the counter to be prepared to be butchered and roasted. They won't be here long, only as long as the Man of Sin who enters a direct league with Satan himself reigns and that's only like a few years. Then Jesus returns and raising up the male virgins and with the legions of holy angels, he puts Satan's entire kingdom down. Even furthermore to boast against Satan and his stupid children eternally, Jesus and his army will even furthermore suffer zero casualties on his side, no wounded no dead in Jesus army at the last battle. Flawless victory for Jesus, the outcome called before it is has happened, and it will happen, Jesus will win, PRAISE JESUS!

Its an interesting topic for sure, I enjoy looking at your view, I want to ask heaps of questions but another time, I like how you place emphasis on the Lord Jesus, And I honestly think the Lord is even more pivotal and more central to this discussion than what a lot of people think, its interesting hearing peoples thoughts on this, you can tell where peoples positions lie in other areas like on eternal security and Calvinism from the why they think God deals with angels.

Just food for thought I dont think its coincidence that when Jesus was revealed come in the flesh as a Son of man and Son of God that the rebellion of verse 4 occurred, the angels are watching events on earth maybe they have to have faith in God to, or they would end up rejecting Gods Word, Christ come in the flesh who was dwelling among us underserving creatures. It would not be that weird that the mechanism for our salvation and eternal life could be the same mechanism for the angels would it?

 

[Clayman]

Since the book of Revelation is a book of prophecy.. It depends if the War in Heaven between Micheal and His angels and satan and his angels has taken place yet.. If not then satan still has access to Heaven..

I think that once satan and his angels are kicked out of heaven then the real end times will happen.. Because as the book of Revelation says satan will be filled with anger after He is kicked out of Heaven because He will know His time is short..

I think the angels were told they had to torment men for a short amount of time say until the end of the 70 weeks of Daniel and when the Lord went to cast some out, they said are you casting us out before the allotted(my paraphrase) time is up, (shows they did not understand the Church age for it was still a mystery) So they are bound, put in chains until the 70th week resumes when the day of judgment resumes the pit may be opened up and they will come up and resume their torment for their allotted short amount of time?

 

[Fundaamental]

Those enemies of Christ who were originally from the celestial realm (wicked angels), which are as Mem says,
being spiritual, are of a higher order than the natural world. This is why we need the full armour of God.

2 Corinthians 10:4 plus Matthew 24:6~ The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come.

just one critism, why is that gun not a pure magenta colour all the way through.

 

[Adstar]

I think the angels were told they had to torment men for a short amount of time say until the end of the 70 weeks of Daniel and when the Lord went to cast some out, they said are you casting us out before the allotted(my paraphrase) time is up, (shows they did not understand the Church age for it was still a mystery) So they are bound, put in chains until the 70th week resumes when the day of judgment resumes the pit may be opened up and they will come up and resume their torment for their allotted short amount of time?

Not sure where you got these points from?

 

[Aaron56]

There are three heavens.

"In the beginning God created the heavens (plural) and the earth"

Paul speaks of a man who was "caught up to the third heaven".

It may be understood like this.

The "heaven of God" is t he current place of His throne. This is the third heaven.
The realm of the spiritual is the second heaven.
The sky and the stars and terrestrial bodies are in the 1st heaven.

Jacob's Ladder, connecting the earth to the heaven of God, was revealed to be Jesus Christ Himself.

Jesus said this: And He said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man.”

Now, we are comfortable with angels "descending" to the earth. BUT, the first account is of angels "ascending" from the earth. These are people, sons of God, having access to heaven of God through the Son of God. Any and all revelation from God to man is based upon this principle.

But it should not be understood to be a special circumstance. No. This is our spiritual reality in Christ.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Our natural position in Christ (who is a Life-giving Spirit) is both in the earth and in heaven.

I also highlighted "you have been saved". Here is another example where saved does not mean "go to heaven when you die". Saved, here, is saved from the "course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience" (verse 2). This is the culture of the demonic that rules the earth.

Now, I said that to perhaps reframe our understanding of "heaven".

Currently, Satan and his angels are spirits. Therefore they have access to the 2nd heaven. We know that he may also roam the earth. So he has access to the 1st heaven. God may call any up to the 3rd heaven even if their station is in the 1st or 2nd heaven naturally. Since "Satan fell like lightening" from the 3rd heaven, we know his station is no longer near the throne of God.

Satan is the "prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience", so, he inhabits the 2nd heaven and the 1st heaven (because he now works in men who are sons of disobedience).

In Revelation 12 this happens:

And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

This is where Satan and his angels lose their place in the 2nd heaven and are cast into time and space, to the earth. Satan, once an angel in the eternal, now is full of wrath because he becomes subject to time, knowing his time is short.

In summary: Satan and his angels currently reside in the 2nd and 1st heavens. In the future, he and his angels will be cast to the earth, the 1st heaven. I'm of the belief that, at that time, we will see an increase in unexplained aerial phenomenon.

 

[Clayman]

Not sure where you got these points from?

I have a habit of paraphrasing just to show my view, ill give some verses I was thinking of that I got my basic points from...

Rev_12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Matt 8:28 When Jesus arrived on the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, He was met by two demon-possessed men coming from the tombs. They were so violent that no one could pass that way. 29“What do You want with us, Son of God?” they shouted. “Have You come here to torture us before the appointed time?”

Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.


Eph 3:2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
Eph 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Eph 3:5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;



1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.

2Pe 2:4 For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment;

Rev 9:2-5 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.

 

[Mem]

So "high places" doesn't refer to heaven?

Consider Luke 4:5 when the devil led Jesus up to a high place to show Him the kingdoms of the world.

 

[Mem]

I think that when we speak, we are operating in a high place. Animals were not equipped with this ability. Speech is of a spiritual construct. We can bring (spiritual) thought into the natural world by speaking or writing but we still have to use spiritual discernment to translate the meaning the vocal manifestation and the symbols of the written word... God operates in the Highest Place, He is the Highest, there's no lie in Him.

 

[birdie]

Do Satan and his angels have access to heaven still? In Revelation 12 it looks like they might have already fought Michael the archangel, "neither was their place found any more in heaven" but it says in Ephesians 6:12, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

It says in 1 Peter 5:8 that the devil walketh about seeking whom he may devour, and in Revelation 12:10 it says, "And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." This may be describing something that already happened.

So if Satan and his angels already lost to Michael the archangel and his angels what are the "high places" in Ephesians 6:12? If I'm correct, not heaven, since it says in Revelation 12 "neither was their place found any more in heaven". Unless they can still access heaven while not having any "place" there. I don't know if that makes sense though. The ESV uses the words "heavenly places" instead of "high places" in Ephesians 6:12. It can't be both though, if by "neither was their place found any more in heaven" it means Satan and his angels no longer have access to heaven, then the high places in Ephesians 6:12 cannot be heaven (if Michael and his angels have already defeated Satan and his angels).

The way I see it there might be an issue posed by the ESV's usage of "heavenly places" if it is saying that our battle is against spiritual wickedness in heaven, since Revelation 12 might be saying that Satan and his angels no longer have access to heaven "neither was their place found any more in heaven".

Just curious as to people's thoughts on this.

Thanks for your question. We could ask how could wickedness be in 'high places' and when? Romans chapter 5 tells us that death reigned since Adam. We read: "by one man's offence death reigned by one". When something is reigning it means that it is at a high place, a place of ultimate authority. How could death have ultimate authority? Well, people sinned and the law says that the wages of sin is death. We read: "The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law." The law gives authority and strength to sin to become death. With high authority the law says that the wages of sin is death. It wasn't until Jesus came that death lost this power, this ultimate authority. We read about the new situation: "Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." Also, we read:""That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Notice that death reigned in the past. It is no longer reigning. Once Jesus came, and shed his blood to atone for sins, death stopped reigning. Life reigns and death fell from heaven. We read in Luke: "And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven." This statement about Satan falling from heaven is accompanying Jesus sending out his followers to proclaim the gospel and to heal. However, we could see this sending forth of believers as a war. The believers are declaring war on those who still think the law is the way to go. Rather, it is Jesus' atoning blood, his mercy that is the way to go. As the scripture says, mercy triumphs over judgment : "mercy rejoiceth against judgment". So, after Jesus came, the believers are in a battle against wickedness in high or heavenly places, against those who do not accept the new covenant, but who instead seek to be justified by works of the law. Fortunately, the authority change is real, and believers have the victory. God backs them up with heavenly authority.

 

[resto]

Pual said that Satan Stands before Gods Throne Accusing the Saints(Us) Day and Night. So I guess he is still up there till he gets thrown down by Michael during the Tribulation.

 

[LeeLoving]

Pual said that Satan Stands before Gods Throne Accusing the Saints(Us) Day and Night. So I guess he is still up there till he gets thrown down by Michael during the Tribulation.

Do you have a verse or verses that show this?

1 Peter 5:8 says this:

1 Peter 5:8
King James Version
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

I think that might mean that he is on the earth.

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

I think that might mean that he is on the earth.

Yes, and Very Busy with:

2Co_4:3-4 "But if our Gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:​

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them​

which believe not, lest The Light of the Glorious Gospel of Christ,​

Who Is The Image of God, Should Shine Unto them."​

 

[resto]

Do you have a verse or verses that show this?

1 Peter 5:8 says this:

1 Peter 5:8
King James Version
8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

I think that might mean that he is on the earth.

It was John who wrote this, not Paul My bad. Its in Revelation 12 vs 10.

 

[Blade]

With Job God asked where are coming from? Satan was walking the earth. Christ said He saw Satan ..well kicked out of heaven. So I doubt he pops back now and then. Its hard to understand since most of this is shooting from the hip so to speak. There is no time and space there. Be like your in China and me here in the US you could talk and I would hear you as if you were next to me. I know silly yet its written in Rev I think "He is the one who accused them day and night before our God." Day and night? Then before God?

No clue