Do stillborns and deceased babies go to 'hell'

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LINDAbae375

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Oct 31, 2024
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Aaron56 said:
:D
In the past, in my clinical practice, I would use the same thing to settle down parents who were overly emotional about their child's behavior.

Them: "I can't believe they did that!"
Me: "Well, by adult standards children are clinically insane."
Them: "What?!"
Me: "Play with their food, their feces, put everything in their mouths, babble, mess their pants, throw things, etc. If you knew an adult like that you'd call for a wellness check."

It was a great icebreaker. :cool:
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Well said
Aaron
 
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brightfame52

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Babies are born sinners,have a sin nature like their parents, so every time a baby is born, a impure nature is brought into the world Job 14:4

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

The word clean here ṭâôr :

pure, clean
  1. clean (ceremonially - of animals)
  2. pure (physically)
  3. pure, clean (morally, ethically)
Babies are born morally, and ethically impure spiritually as their parents are by nature

And Gods Law requires purity and holiness of nature
 
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GWH

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Oct 19, 2024
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GWH said:
W.H, saying "it's possible that babies are born innocent, but none are born sinless" seems self-contradictory to me, because "innocent" usually means "blameless" or not having committed the crime.

It is true that babies are selfish, but I doubt God would condemn them to hell for that reason. I think the more correct interpretation is "Adam and Eve sinned first, and all people die, because all sinned."
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I would like to clarify my previous reply. I think PS 51:5, which was written before folks developed the NT doctrine of hell, should be understood as harmonizing with NT teaching including RM 3:23, 6:23, HB 9:27-28 & MT 4:17, "All normal human adults sin as A&E did, and therefore they not only die but also will reap the just consequence of doing evil, unless they repent and cooperate with God's POS."
 
JTB

JTB

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brightfame52 said:
Babies are born sinners,have a sin nature like their parents, so every time a baby is born, a impure nature is brought into the world Job 14:4

Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.

The word clean here ṭâôr :

pure, clean
  1. clean (ceremonially - of animals)
  2. pure (physically)
  3. pure, clean (morally, ethically)
Babies are born morally, and ethically impure spiritually as their parents are by nature

And Gods Law requires purity and holiness of nature
Click to expand...
Every car leaves the assembly line with the ability to exceed speed limits.

Does that mean every car that leaves the assembly line is immediately guilty of speeding?
 
HeIsHere

HeIsHere

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JTB said:
Every car leaves the assembly line with the ability to exceed speed limits.

Does that mean every car that leaves the assembly line is immediately guilty of speeding?
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Just reading the post you are responding to, I just really think God needs to be redeemed from the clutches of Calvinism and Augustinism.

Redeemed in the sense that the True God must once again be proclaimed or Christianity will loose even more of its credibility.

Babies are not born sinners, this is never established in scripture, it only true for those who employ absolutely disastrous hermeneutics!

Disastrous because it has caused and continues to cause great damage.

Good analogy.
 
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GWH

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HeIsHere said:
Just reading the post you are responding to, I just really think God needs to be redeemed from the clutches of Calvinism and Augustinism.

Redeemed in the sense that the True God must once again be proclaimed or Christianity will loose even more of its credibility.

Babies are not born sinners, this is never established in scripture, it only true for those who employ absolutely disastrous hermeneutics!

Disastrous because it has caused and continues to cause great damage.

Good analogy.
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Yes, with the body being the car and volition being the driver.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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JTB said:
Every car leaves the assembly line with the ability to exceed speed limits.

Does that mean every car that leaves the assembly line is immediately guilty of speeding?
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It's a good analogy as far as it goes. Every car that has a defect must be recalled. If your analogy is to be accurate, every car has a defect.
 
SomeDisciple

SomeDisciple

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I think it's a dreadful analogy; unless we're talking about a self-driving car with incomplete programming that will inevitably run people over and crash itself into a hospital.

That kind of car doesn't need to actually do anything wrong in order for it to be worthless. Either the programming gets fixed- or it goes to the crusher.
 
JTB

JTB

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Cameron143 said:
It's a good analogy as far as it goes. Every car that has a defect must be recalled. If your analogy is to be accurate, every car has a defect.
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Extrapolate if you will.

You consider the capability to sin a defect?
 
JTB

JTB

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SomeDisciple said:
I think it's a dreadful analogy; unless we're talking about a self-driving car with incomplete programming that will inevitably run people over and crash itself into a hospital.

That kind of car doesn't need to actually do anything wrong in order for it to be worthless. Either the programming gets fixed- or it goes to the crusher.
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We are born with the capability to violate God's law. But at birth we haven't actually violated any of God's laws.

The car is made with the capability to violate speed laws. But at manufacture the car hasn't actually violated any speed laws.

I don't see much difference.

To apply your response, lets put us in place of the car...

"we're talking about a self-driving person with incomplete programming that will eventually run people over and crash itself..."

No, not much difference at all.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

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JTB said:
Extrapolate if you will.

You consider the capability to sin a defect?
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I consider the assurity that all will sin a defect. I also see the necessity of a spiritual birth as evidence of a fatal defect.
 
SomeDisciple

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JTB said:
No, not much difference at all.
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Bro; cars do not violate speed laws- operators violate speed laws. The police are not going to ticket somebody's car- they ticket the operator. The flaw is with the operator, not with the car. That is unless we are talking about a self-driving car. Then there might be a flaw with the car.
 
JTB

JTB

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SomeDisciple said:
Bro; cars do not violate speed laws- operators violate speed laws. The police are not going to ticket somebody's car- they ticket the operator. The flaw is with the operator, not with the car. That is unless we are talking about a self-driving car. Then there might be a flaw with the car.
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Can it be said that people on their own don't commit sins, it's satan that drives them to sin? (npi)
 
Magenta

Magenta

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Cameron143 said:
It's a good analogy as far as it goes. Every car that has a defect must be recalled. If your analogy is to be accurate, every car has a defect.
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Regardless of whether or not the "car" is defective, it is required to have an overhaul. Per, you MUST be born again.
Cameron143 said:
I also see the necessity of a spiritual birth as evidence of a fatal defect.
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Exactly! Others fail to take this into consideration. And despite the
plethora of evidence against man they will say he is not that bad.
 
SomeDisciple

SomeDisciple

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JTB said:
Can it be said that people on their own don't commit sins, it's satan that drives them to sin? (npi)
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No. He messes with the driver, but He's not the driver.
 
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brightfame52

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Christ said “…I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me” (Jn.14:6). He that hath an ear let him hear.

No one gets to Jesus because they died as an infant, or because they didn’t die as an infant. No one gets saved by default, by a non-payment of their sins by the Lord Jesus Christ. A man’s sins, and the punishment due unto him, are not something which is overlooked, or glossed over, by God under any circumstances no matter how tragic they may be. Salvation Loopholes? | godsonlygospel
 
BillyBob

BillyBob

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#377
brightfame52 said:
Christ said “…I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me” (Jn.14:6). He that hath an ear let him hear.

No one gets to Jesus because they died as an infant, or because they didn’t die as an infant. No one gets saved by default, by a non-payment of their sins by the Lord Jesus Christ. A man’s sins, and the punishment due unto him, are not something which is overlooked, or glossed over, by God under any circumstances no matter how tragic they may be. Salvation Loopholes? | godsonlygospel
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Great post! I can't argue with it in any way!
 
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