Do We Have To Keep The Law?

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you saying that I have to be a mature believer to call out an immature believer? And that I can only call out the person who wiggles out of confrontation with plain scripture if I don't do that? Is this what you're saying?

No i am saying if you want people to act like what you call adults, you need to first show you can do that also. You throwing tempertantrums and calling people names like a teenager who did not get thwir way is not going to help people treat you the way you want them to

 

[Ralph-]

...when we jude (sic) it is evil

Think about what you're saying: If you call what I'm doing evil judging, then when you do it it is also evil judging.

Think before you post.


Just for the record, judging is not the fault I have been calling out in you and your cronies. I call out how you and your buddies resort to personal attacks and launch into dishonest defenses when you get frustrated by being confronted with plain scripture.


You see, basically, budman is asking in the OP whether or not we HAVE to obey, for example, James' teaching to not show favoritism and to love our neighbor as ourselves. I can't believe a Spirit filled Christian would even have to ask that question.

 

[Grandpa]

Think about what you're saying: If you call what I'm doing evil judging, then when you do it it is also evil judging.

Think before you post.


Just for the record, judging is not the fault I have been calling out in you and your cronies. I call out how you and your buddies resort to personal attacks and launch into dishonest defenses when you get frustrated by being confronted with plain scripture.

Galatians 2:19-21

[SUP]19 [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is pretty plain.

Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

What is the conclusion that can be drawn from these scriptures?

2 Corinthians 3:5-9
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

The only thing that is frustrating is how judaizers and legalists can continue to push law when almost every epistle by Paul warns against these type of people and behavior.

People have a certain way of looking at something and once you see the Truth you can't go back.

Matthew 11:28

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.​

[SUB][SUP]
[/SUP][/SUB]

​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Think about what you're saying: If you call what I'm doing evil judging, then when you do it it is also evil judging.

Think before you post.


Just for the record, judging is not the fault I have been calling out in you and your cronies. I call out how you and your buddies resort to personal attacks and launch into dishonest defenses when you get frustrated by being confronted with plain scripture.


You see, basically, budman is asking in the OP whether or not we HAVE to obey, for example, James' teaching to not show favoritism and to love our neighbor as ourselves. I can't believe a Spirit filled Christian would even have to ask that question.

Again, practice what you preach, your not innocent, you have attacked people since you first showed up,

 

[Ralph-]

Galatians 2:19-21

[SUP]19 [/SUP]For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

It is pretty plain.

Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

What is the conclusion that can be drawn from these scriptures?

2 Corinthians 3:5-9
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

The only thing that is frustrating is how judaizers and legalists can continue to push law when almost every epistle by Paul warns against these type of people and behavior.

People have a certain way of looking at something and once you see the Truth you can't go back.

Matthew 11:28

Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.​

[SUB][/SUB]

​

Ask yourself why you are only capable of understanding having to keep the law as trying to be justified by the law.

Why does it never occur to you that there can be another reason why a Christian must keep the law?

You can be insulted by this if you want but it's not meant that way, but the answer is because you along with multitudes of other Christians are still sucking on the milk knowledge of justification through faith apart from works and have not moved into the knowledge of God beyond that.

 

[Ralph-]

Grandpa,

Do you say it's optional for the Christian to keep the law of Moses that James says we are to keep?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Grandpa,

Do you say it's optional for the Christian to keep the law of Moses that James says we are to keep?

James never said that. He said that we fulfill the law of Moses by loving others as ourselves.

 

[JaumeJ]

The greatest hurdle for folks who say we do not need to obey the law, as clarified and taught by Jesus Christ, is they do not learn from Jesus Christ; they use certain writings of Paul which actually contradict themselves winding up in a quagmire of complete confusion, and I must say, darkness.

Jesus makes all so much lighter and easier on any of His followers.

 

[JaumeJ]

Some folks inthe forum are not quite up to understanding when Jesus teaches us all to judge for ourselves what is right.......the key words here are for ourselves what is right. He goes on to say we are hypocrites if we do not practice this.

Many here confuse this type of judgment in our daily activity with judging others to condemnation which we should not do, for that honor and privilege has not yet been conferredupon the saints. Yet they teach blindly what they do not understand.

Think about what you're saying: If you call what I'm doing evil judging, then when you do it it is also evil judging.

Think before you post.


Just for the record, judging is not the fault I have been calling out in you and your cronies. I call out how you and your buddies resort to personal attacks and launch into dishonest defenses when you get frustrated by being confronted with plain scripture.


You see, basically, budman is asking in the OP whether or not we HAVE to obey, for example, James' teaching to not show favoritism and to love our neighbor as ourselves. I can't believe a Spirit filled Christian would even have to ask that question.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The greatest hurdle for folks who say we do not need to obey the law, as clarified and taught by Jesus Christ, is they do not learn from Jesus Christ; they use certain writings of Paul which actually contradict themselves winding up in a quagmire of complete confusion, and I must say, darkness.

Jesus makes all so much lighter and easier on any of His followers.

the greatest hurdle in trying to obey the law is we can’t in a way god demands (perfection) and when you keep pishing people to obey it, and they keep realising they cant on of two things happens

1. they hide sin - it is too embarrasing to admit your a failure, this usually leads to them judging people who have greater sins so they can feel better about themselves, and or, get them to fall into groups of people who struggle wi5 same sin so they can sin together and not feel judged.

2. they five up and walk away from God.


I have met both types, i practiced one or the other types myself at one times

i was not freed until i found grace and mercy, and my Abba Father God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Some folks inthe forum are not quite up to understanding when Jesus teaches us all to judge for ourselves what is right.......the key words here are for ourselves what is right. He goes on to say we are hypocrites if we do not practice this.

Many here confuse this type of judgment in our daily activity with judging others to condemnation which we should not do, for that honor and privilege has not yet been conferredupon the saints. Yet they teach blindly what they do not understand.

judging yourself is not judging others. We are to judge ourselves what is right i agree

 

[JaumeJ]

These same intellectuals (by approach) seem to confuse being set free from the curse of teh law, death, with Jesus having destroyed the law on the cross. They cannot hear the Good Shepherd when He teaches.

Some folks inthe forum are not quite up to understanding when Jesus teaches us all to judge for ourselves what is right.......the key words here are for ourselves what is right. He goes on to say we are hypocrites if we do not practice this.

Many here confuse this type of judgment in our daily activity with judging others to condemnation which we should not do, for that honor and privilege has not yet been conferredupon the saints. Yet they teach blindly what they do not understand.

 

[gb9]

Some folks inthe forum are not quite up to understanding when Jesus teaches us all to judge for ourselves what is right.......the key words here are for ourselves what is right. He goes on to say we are hypocrites if we do not practice this.

Many here confuse this type of judgment in our daily activity with judging others to condemnation which we should not do, for that honor and privilege has not yet been conferredupon the saints. Yet they teach blindly what they do not understand.

to say that if someone dies ( or Christ returns ) and one is trusting in keeping the Law, in any form or fashion for salvation , they will be excluded from the Kingdom.

this is not ' teaching what we do not understand ". Jesus said " I am the way, the truth , the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me." no where in that statement is law.

all you guys who have deconstructed and reconstructed Scripture have come up with theology that is Bible-based, but not Biblically truthful. much like prosperity preaching, it makes you feel good, but in the end, has no hope.

 

[JaumeJ]

This is a classic instance of taking the words of Christ and erpeating them with a personal twist, just as you have done here with my post. I have not even approached saying what you are suggesting here, not here in this post nor ever.

We do not justify ourselves, for no man can, but at the same time we do not teach disobedience in place of hearing our Master and Savior's teaching on how the law is to be dealt with since He did finishe the manority off, while leaving allt he laws tha hang on love.


It is avery sad instance when people say Christ did not teach the law is not destroyed, and that He did not tache against disqualifying the laws that remain.

Do not pervert the simple language I have sued into some cryptic error. I only pass on what Jesus Chrisst has taught all.

Reread my post and learn the difference. Do not cut and paste if you do notunderstan. If you cannot understand my simple ways and language, how can you claim to understand the Word?

to say that if someone dies ( or Christ returns ) and one is trusting in keeping the Law, in any form or fashion for salvation , they will be excluded from the Kingdom.

this is not ' teaching what we do not understand ". Jesus said " I am the way, the truth , the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me." no where in that statement is law.

all you guys who have deconstructed and reconstructed Scripture have come up with theology that is Bible-based, but not Biblically truthful. much like prosperity preaching, it makes you feel good, but in the end, has no hope.

 

[JaumeJ]

this is not ' teaching what we do not understand ". Jesus said " I am the way, the truth , the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me." no where in that statement is law.

This quote from a post shows how a person cherry picks verses without learning all that Christ taught. The way ad the truth and the life includes learning all He teaches, and He teaches the law is yet in good standing after those which are already fulfilled are gone.......learn the difference before teaching and spreading darkness.

YOu know Satan fools many with some truth twisted to suit his goals.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

These same intellectuals (by approach) seem to confuse being set free from the curse of teh law, death, with Jesus having destroyed the law on the cross. They cannot hear the Good Shepherd when He teaches.

lol, you make me laugh, you think because we disagree with you it is us, you need to look in the mirror my friend, ifnoring me will not keep you from being held accountable

 

[eternally-gratefull]

YOu know Satan fools many with some truth twisted to suit his goals.

As usual you use a strawman attack that can just as easily be used on you.

can you ever talk to anyone without belittling or attacking them? And you want people to think you represent God? What God?

 

[Budman]

Well that's not very nice. You misquoted me to turn what I said into a personal attack.

Oh sorry, did I neglect to add the "jello" part?

You HAVE to walk by the Spirit which upholds the law.

Ahem, to quote: "If we are led by the Spirit we are not under the Law" (Galatians 5:18)

Sorry Ralph. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Then explain to us how it is that grace makes it so absolutely nothing whatsoever that you believe about Christ after salvation, even denying him, can touch your salvation

Because salvation, from beginning to end, is a gift. (Romans 6:23)

A GIFT, Ralph.

You can't hear a word I say because you're holding a grudge

Ralph, you're not a challenge enough to hold a grudge against.

Ask mailmandan why works are required in the believer's life. He says they are required because if they are not present then that person is not saved in the first place.

Romans 4:4-6 shuts that idea down every time.

As does Galatians 2:16

And Romans 11:5-6

Aaand John 6:28-29


....also 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

 

[JaumeJ]

I will thank all who quote others to give exact quotes of them in the therads.

Do not interpret what people post and then simply type what you understood with quotations,
this is nto quoting the post , you know what it really is.

People practice this latter example all of the time when quoting our Lord and Savior, Yeshua. Taking just anyting He declares out of context without study of all He teaches they will stan on their or his own error, unyielding.


There are a few people who are so terrified of admitting we are to be obedient after Salvation that they
do what they can to dissuade people from obeying Jesus Christ when Jesus warns in plain words not to teach against the least of the laws.

Thee people do this because they do not udnerstand that the very few laws that remain are being fulfilled by Jesus christ in each one of us who have called upon Him in Spirit and Truth.

I am afraid these people who are being bandied about by every breeze and wave have no idea which of the laws remmain, but they will say they love so that is all they need to do, say they love, lots of lip service not realizing all the laws that remain are included and obeyed by love.

This means they yet exist in love, but I am afraid these unfortunates have no clue as to what it means.

Since most of these people offer largely their confused understanding of Paul's letters, I recommend they reread or read Ephesians about being obedient, and not keep leveling charges with loose quotes of Paul, for even when they use Paul's words they exclude any of his words that refute what they calim.

Be hones in your posting, and do not act as if you are quoting a post even when you have beeninvited to do so, that is quote a post, but instead change it around adding your own quotes..........that is a very dishonest practice..

 

[JaumeJ]

Pay close attention here. Notice I am quoting you directly not putting quotes around something I have typed saying it is yours with a twisted, even perverse, understandign.

NOw you use the term,"We," and I know some of whom you are referring to.

I could use that term only because when I am passing on the teaching of Jesus christ it is with the understanding afforded by theHoly Spirit, and not a gang of uninformable individuals who are desperate to teach agains the least of the laws, not, agains all of the laws that remains since our Lord and sAvior fuflilled so many and is yet fulfilling them in all who have come to Him in Spirit and Truth.

AS the rich man was told about Lazarus, I will paraphrase to you. If you cannot believe someone who rose from the dead, you cannot believe me.

lol, you make me laugh, you think because we disagree with you it is us, you need to look in the mirror my friend, ifnoring me will not keep you from being held accountable