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Are you asking in earnest? The Sabbath begins at sunset at the end of the sixth day, and it varies from time zone to time zone. One does not need to know what time zone one is in to know if it is sunset or not. Have you ever heard the New Year's eve reports of celebrations around the globe? It is the same principle.[QUOTE=justamazed;945170]Again I ask if I am to observe the sabbath saturday, for those on the other side of the globe are they breaking the commandment?[/QUOTE]
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CDavid
Guest
[h=3]Daniel 7:25[/h] And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
It's not hard to understand why the Seventh Day Adventist teach that the Catholic church has some connection to the antichrist. Not only did the Vatican change time, with the Gregorian calendar, and the day to observe the Sabbath, the Vatican also changed Gods ten commandments in the Catholic Bible. The second commandment in all other Bible versions; Thou shalt not make graven images, is completely omitted. (Most likely because of the many graven images, like the virgin Mary, and the many saints to which they pray) In order to still have ten commands, the tenth command was split in half. Where in all other versions of the Bible, the tenth command not to covet your neighbors wife, or anything your neighbor owns, the Catholic Bible 9th command prohibits coveting your neighbors wife, and the 10th prohibits coveting other property your neighbor owns.
Although I am not an Adventist, because of their acceptance of Ellen G. White as a prophet, and hold to her teachings equal to scripture, I can't help but think they may be on to something, in regard to how the Vatican has fulfilled many prophecies about the antichrist.
It's not hard to understand why the Seventh Day Adventist teach that the Catholic church has some connection to the antichrist. Not only did the Vatican change time, with the Gregorian calendar, and the day to observe the Sabbath, the Vatican also changed Gods ten commandments in the Catholic Bible. The second commandment in all other Bible versions; Thou shalt not make graven images, is completely omitted. (Most likely because of the many graven images, like the virgin Mary, and the many saints to which they pray) In order to still have ten commands, the tenth command was split in half. Where in all other versions of the Bible, the tenth command not to covet your neighbors wife, or anything your neighbor owns, the Catholic Bible 9th command prohibits coveting your neighbors wife, and the 10th prohibits coveting other property your neighbor owns.
Although I am not an Adventist, because of their acceptance of Ellen G. White as a prophet, and hold to her teachings equal to scripture, I can't help but think they may be on to something, in regard to how the Vatican has fulfilled many prophecies about the antichrist.
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carey
Guest
The point I'm trying to make is that to murder, or steal, or to covet is NOT a commandment that "varies" from zone to zone. Why believe that the commandment of the sabbath is? Now again I say the true sabbath is upon us and yet we are rebellious to His will. This is why the economy is failing. This is why crime is on the rise (evil angels sent). Jesus is Lord on EVERYDAY OF THE WEEK.
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carey
Guest
I am in complete agreement with you. In the article I read they said that the catholics shortened the 4th commandment to strip God of His title, the territory over which He reigns, and His seal. Not sure how true this is, but it's definitely worth thinking over
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ib4gzus
Guest
We don't have to keep the sabbath today. That was to Isreal.
We are not under the Law, WE ARE UNDER Grace.
We are not under the Law, WE ARE UNDER Grace.
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CDavid
Guest
The day will come when all Christians will turn away from the traditions of man, and return to the commandments of God.
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Eccl12and13
Guest
I try my best to keep God's Sabbath the way He instructed us to keep it;
- The Sabbath is for rest.
Exod.20
[10] But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
- We ARE to come together to worship the Lord.
Lev.23
[3] Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
- We are NOT to cook on the Sabbath.
Exod.16
[23] And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
[29] See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.
[30] So the people rested on the seventh day.
- We are NOT to buy or sell on the Sabbath, if it can be avoided.
Neh.13
[15] In those days saw I in Judah some treading wine presses on the sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein they sold victuals.
[16] There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.
[17] Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?
[18] Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.
[19] And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.
[20] So the merchants and sellers of all kind of ware lodged without Jerusalem once or twice.
[21] Then I testified against them, and said unto them, Why lodge ye about the wall? if ye do so again, I will lay hands on you. From that time forth came they no more on the sabbath.
[22] And I commanded the Levites that they should cleanse themselves, and that they should come and keep the gates, to sanctify the sabbath day. Remember me, O my God, concerning this also, and spare me according to the greatness of thy mercy.
- We are NOT to engage in our own pleasures on the Sabbath.
Isa.58
[13] If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:
[14] Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
We are to keep God's Sabbath in the same way that Jesus kept it; Jesus kept God's 7th day Sabbath as God instructed man to keep it!
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CDavid
Guest
Colossians 2:16
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Let no man judge you for not eating pork, or for not drinking liquor, or not respecting a pagan holyday, or their moon worship, and let no man judge you for keeping Gods Sabbath.
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Let no man judge you for not eating pork, or for not drinking liquor, or not respecting a pagan holyday, or their moon worship, and let no man judge you for keeping Gods Sabbath.
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Eccl12and13
Guest
So let me get this straight......there is someone that desires to keep the commandments of God, but you are advising them NOT to?
You are surly treading on dangerous grounds;
Matt.5
[18] For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[19] Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
I would be VERY careful in the advise given to those that desire to follow the true and living God!
Let's read what thus said the Lord;
Col.2:16
[16] Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
The above is NOT saying that one does not have to keep God's 7th day Sabbath.
It says not to let what anyone says about what you eat, drink, observe a holy day or a SABBATH bother you! Do not let what others say deter you from what you know it right!
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CDavid
Guest
What would Jesus do?
In order to learn this, all we must do is read the Gospels. By doing this we will learn what Jesus did do. By knowing what He did do, we can know what He would do. Because Jesus kept the Sabbath, we should keep the Sabbath.
It's not rocket science folks.
In order to learn this, all we must do is read the Gospels. By doing this we will learn what Jesus did do. By knowing what He did do, we can know what He would do. Because Jesus kept the Sabbath, we should keep the Sabbath.
It's not rocket science folks.
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hermanodaniel
Guest
Carey, there's a difference in the letter of the 4th commandment which stipulated a physical rest on the seventh day and the heart of what that commandment pointed to which is the rest we have in Christ. God's Word is spirit and life and it is now that those who are born of God are able to see past the letter. I don't know if you've noticed but in the Gospel of John Jesus rebuked the pharisees, sadducees and even his disciples of their lack in understanding since they were understanding Christ's words literally when His words are spirit and life. Jesus revealed the true intent underneath the letter and invited those who wanted to rest in God to come unto Him Matthew 11:28-30 Many who lack an understanding of the depth of God's Word will state that this invitation Jesus gave to come unto him has nothing to do with the sabbath but that is not true. Jesus Christ is the very Living Word of God and many do not grasp that the very Word that proceeded from the mouth of God is what gives us our rest and this rest is eternal out of time. God said his sabbath rest is eternal and that means that the true intents was not a physical rest on the seventh day because His Word is out of time the seventh day is a shadow of the appointed time when we will rest in Christ's finished work and we are to rest everyday in Christ.
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Where are people extracting this teaching that Jesus Christ is the Sabbath. It seems to me they are getting it from His well known call for the weary to come to Him and He will give them rest. If they would read it all, they will find He is calling for people to come to Him to learn for His yoke is easy and His burden is light. This is as opposed to the scribes and pharisees of then and now who weigh heavy burdens on others, and will not lift a finger to lift themselves. This by no means stipulates that Jesus has become the Sabbath, and Jesus, Yeshua, teaches us to obey the commandments.
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hermanodaniel
Guest
And this is the problem just as Nicodemus was rebuked for not understanding the term "born again" since it is not found in the OT word for word he failed to see that the concept of this truth was underneath the letter hence the deep things of God. It's not hard to see that if Jesus Christ is indeed the very Word of God He is then our rest for he made us and He certainly gives us everlasting life so how can He not be our spiritual rest? Why hold onto the letter when the heart of that letter is Christ himself?
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Eccl12and13
Guest
Let's read how long God said that "physically" His Sabbath was to be observed......
Lev.23
[2] Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
So let's now read some of the feast and holy convocations of the Lord;
[3] Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.
[4] These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.
So we have God's 7th day Sabbath as one of His feast/holy convocations.
[5] In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.
[6] And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
And we have the feast of the Passover and the First Day of Unleavened Bread.
Now let's read how long God tells us to "physically" keep these feasts and holy convocations;
Exod.31
[13] Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.
[14] Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
[15] Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
[16] Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.
[17] It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
Now just when does, "perpetual" and "for ever" come to an end?
Now....was God's laws ONLY for the nation of Israel? Let's read....
Exod.12
[49] One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Num.15
[29] Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
Isa.56
[2] Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
[3] Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
[4] For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
[5] Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
[6] Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
And just to confirm that God intended for His Sabbath to be "physically" kept forever....let's read what will happen when Jesus reigns here on earth;
Isa.66
[22] For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
[23] And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
God said His Sabbath was to be a perpetual covenant. And we are to "physically" observe it forever!
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carey
Guest
Like I said in the beginning, we follow every commandment except for the 4th. So if we are under grace and not law, which by the way I believe, and we are free from the 4th commandment, then it would stand to reason we would be free of the other 9. But we follow the other 9 commandments because we know we should follow them, and if that's the case, I see a flaw in that reasoning. Why would we say it's ok to put aside one commandment in favor of others. We must not pick and choose what to obey in God's word, we either accept it all or accept none
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hermanodaniel
Guest
We are not under the letter of the law Romans 6:14 we are under the Law of Christ which is the call to love others as He loved us and to believe in the one God has sent which is Christ.
For some people the Law of Christ does not exist, yet it is biblical. Jesus never once said if you love Him keep the 10 commandments (i.e., in the form of the letter). He said if you love me keep MY commandments. What are His commands? The answer is found in John 13:34-35 Notice that Christ states a new commandment that on the surface seems to be the same as Leviticus 19:18 which is "Love your neighbor as yourself" BUT actually it's a bit deeper because Jesus states "Love others as I HAVE LOVED YOU" thus a sacrificial love that requires death to the flesh. This is the LAW OF CHRIST now written in our hearts if we are born again in the Spirit of God. Amazingly, many who advocate observance to the 10 commandments point to John 14:15 and John 15 where Jesus states "if you love me keep MY commands" they twist these verses stating that here is clear proof that Jesus was referring to the letter of the law (that is to say the 10 commandments) when in context with John 13:34-35 he was speaking of the Law of Christ the Law of the Spirit. Many also falsely cite 1 John 5 where the same John who wrote the Gospel of John states the commandments are not burdensome or grievous and in context with 1 John 3:23 and his prior writings in the Gospel of John he is referring to the Law of Christ. 1 John 3:22-23 says
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. John 6:29 and John 13:34 No one can please God after the flesh and if no one can please God after the flesh when Jesus states if you love me keep my commandments He is referring to the Law of Christ which is the call to love other as He loves and no one can do that through the letter because the letter dominates the flesh. Peter clearly states how obeying this truth we are purified. "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:22-23) And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. (Ephesians 5:2)
Now that we do not serve after the letter but in the spirit we see that the Law of God is fulfilled by the following two verses in John (John 6:28-29 and John 13:34-35) which reflects the 2 greatest commandment:
(JOHN 6:28-29) "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (John 13:34-35) "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." (1 John 3:22-23) "And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." (Notice how this reflects John 6:29 and John 13:34) If we truly are born of God and love the Lord with all our hearts, souls and minds we will NOT or should NOT give him dead works produced by our flesh that is subject to the letter since we cannot obey it to the "T" and it is not of faith. However, God commands us to believe in His Son and abide in His love because Jesus abode in His Father's love perfectly obeying unto death. That covers the first great commandment. The second great commandment is to love thy neighbour as thyself and that is fulfilled in the Law of Christ where Jesus states Love others AS I HAVE LOVED YOU which was to the death! This requires that we crucify our flesh daily to love after He loves which is spirit! (Matthew 22:36-40) "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Observe these verses from (Hebrews 5:8-10) signifying how we are to Obey Christ which abode in His Father's love perfectly! "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey HIM; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec." NOW Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2:23
For some people the Law of Christ does not exist, yet it is biblical. Jesus never once said if you love Him keep the 10 commandments (i.e., in the form of the letter). He said if you love me keep MY commandments. What are His commands? The answer is found in John 13:34-35 Notice that Christ states a new commandment that on the surface seems to be the same as Leviticus 19:18 which is "Love your neighbor as yourself" BUT actually it's a bit deeper because Jesus states "Love others as I HAVE LOVED YOU" thus a sacrificial love that requires death to the flesh. This is the LAW OF CHRIST now written in our hearts if we are born again in the Spirit of God. Amazingly, many who advocate observance to the 10 commandments point to John 14:15 and John 15 where Jesus states "if you love me keep MY commands" they twist these verses stating that here is clear proof that Jesus was referring to the letter of the law (that is to say the 10 commandments) when in context with John 13:34-35 he was speaking of the Law of Christ the Law of the Spirit. Many also falsely cite 1 John 5 where the same John who wrote the Gospel of John states the commandments are not burdensome or grievous and in context with 1 John 3:23 and his prior writings in the Gospel of John he is referring to the Law of Christ. 1 John 3:22-23 says
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. John 6:29 and John 13:34 No one can please God after the flesh and if no one can please God after the flesh when Jesus states if you love me keep my commandments He is referring to the Law of Christ which is the call to love other as He loves and no one can do that through the letter because the letter dominates the flesh. Peter clearly states how obeying this truth we are purified. "Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." (1 Peter 1:22-23) And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour. (Ephesians 5:2)
Now that we do not serve after the letter but in the spirit we see that the Law of God is fulfilled by the following two verses in John (John 6:28-29 and John 13:34-35) which reflects the 2 greatest commandment:
(JOHN 6:28-29) "Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent." (John 13:34-35) "A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another." (1 John 3:22-23) "And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment." (Notice how this reflects John 6:29 and John 13:34) If we truly are born of God and love the Lord with all our hearts, souls and minds we will NOT or should NOT give him dead works produced by our flesh that is subject to the letter since we cannot obey it to the "T" and it is not of faith. However, God commands us to believe in His Son and abide in His love because Jesus abode in His Father's love perfectly obeying unto death. That covers the first great commandment. The second great commandment is to love thy neighbour as thyself and that is fulfilled in the Law of Christ where Jesus states Love others AS I HAVE LOVED YOU which was to the death! This requires that we crucify our flesh daily to love after He loves which is spirit! (Matthew 22:36-40) "Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets." Observe these verses from (Hebrews 5:8-10) signifying how we are to Obey Christ which abode in His Father's love perfectly! "Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey HIM; Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec." NOW Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 1 John 2:23