do we or dont we follow the sabbath?

[loveme1]

Haz,

Keeping the Commandments is rebelling?

Sin is keeping the Commandments?

This is not true.

 

[loveme1]

I will withdraw for now for one should receive the Truth freely with a loving heart.
None can impose on another.

1 John 2

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

 

[MidniteWelder]

But, in regards to "sin", people "sin" when they rebel against God by seeking to establish righteousness under the law,

If Satan, the accuser, cannot charge Christians with sin, then how could anyone do so?

It is not righteousness that may be established, but obedience


We charge ourselves with sin by being told what sin is through Gods word
When we feel convicted it is by being enlightened to our sin.
We become enlightened to it so that we may correct it.

1 Cor 11:31
But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment

 

[haz]

You believe that Keeping and teaching the commandments is a false gospel?
You say it is leading people astray.

The commandments are holy, just and good, Rom 7:12. They are the principles of God.
But obedience to them as a means for determining/judging righteousness, we see that all the world becomes guilty before God using such a method to attain righteousness.
Rom 3:19
we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

So yes, preaching that keeping the commandments/the law is needed for salvation is, a false gospel.
In fact its spiritual fornication with Hagar/the Law, Gal 4:24.
There are many scriptures warning against fornication and they refer to spiritual fornication with Hagar/the law.
1Cor 5 is a good example.

By the way, just as a reminder, scripture is spiritually discerned, as 1Cor 2:14 describes. Hence we should not read it as a natural man would seeing it only in physical terms.

1Cor 5 speaks of someone fornicating with his father's wife.
The "father" here is Satan, just as Jesus described in John 8:44 in referring to those under the law.
And Hagar speaks of the law, as Gal 4:24 describes.

Note also 1Cor 5:7 "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened."
What is this "leaven" we have to purge out?
Jesus tells us in Matt 16:11-12
How is it that ye do not understand that I spake it not to you concerning bread, that ye should beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees? Then understood they how that he bade them not beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and of the Sadducees.

"Leaven" refers to the doctrine of righteousness by works of the law.

Just a little leaven, leavens the whole lump. In other words, just a little of the doctrine of works of the law can leaven a Christian, defiling them so that they fail God's grace.
Gal 5:7-9
Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

You are correct, I am saying that preaching the law/10 commandments as part of salvation, is leading people astray, as the scriptures above show.


You quote Revelation 2:26 about "he that overcometh".
How do we overcome?
1John 5:4-5
For whatsoever is born of God (1John 5:1) overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

The Messiah is not going to spew people out that do what He told them to do.

It is the Messiah that says we are to Keep and Teach the Commandments.

If you do not believe this then it is the Messiah you reject not anyone who relays the Message.

Jesus preached the gospel of grace.
And Christians keep his commandments.
1John 3:22,23
And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

 

[haz]

Haz,

Keeping the Commandments is rebelling?

Sin is keeping the Commandments?

This is not true.

As I said in my other posts, it's seeking to establish righteousness by works that makes a person a sinner, Gal 2:18.

 

[haz]

It is not righteousness that may be established, but obedience


We charge ourselves with sin by being told what sin is through Gods word
When we feel convicted it is by being enlightened to our sin.
We become enlightened to it so that we may correct it.

1 Cor 11:31
But if we judged ourselves, we would not come under judgment

Yes obedience is what God seeks from us. And it's obedience to the gospel of grace that He refers to.

What is God's will?
this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is the gospel that we are to obey.

Our works that shows our faith is the same thing; Believe in Jesus, John 6:29.

The sin the world is convicted of is; Unbelief in Jesus, John 16:9.

There is no works of the law included in this gospel. We cannot mix grace with works of the law, Rom 11:6

 

[JaumeJ]

Anyone experiencing the glorious and free salvation by the Blood of the Lamb is grateful to Yahweh, God. Being shown by the law that the wages of sin is death, and being freed from the curse of the law, that being its wages, the punishment which leads to death we are free to avoid sin. The only manner to avoid it is to not do it. Granted we are living under grace, and the guilt of our sin is no longer imputed to us, but this is by no means license to disobey the wonderful guide lines written on stone tablets for us by our Father. If there is anything inherently wrong with honoring your father and your mother, having no other god before you, making a graven image to worship, not stealing, not bearing false witness, not sharing one day separated to be with our Maker, etc, you must demonstrate you know this. I do know Jesus teaches us anyone teaching against the least of any of these laws will be least in the kingdom. No guide to good behavior is obsolete, even though we are free of the curse of sin, that being death. We are not perfect in this age, however we are counted as such because of Yeshua dwelling in our hearts. Now let us praise Yahweh, for He is good, His mercy endures forever, amen

As I said in my other posts, it's seeking to establish righteousness by works that makes a person a sinner, Gal 2:18.[/QUOTE

 

[haz]

Anyone experiencing the glorious and free salvation by the Blood of the Lamb is grateful to Yahweh, God. Being shown by the law that the wages of sin is death, and being freed from the curse of the law, that being its wages, the punishment which leads to death we are free to avoid sin. The only manner to avoid it is to not do it. Granted we are living under grace, and the guilt of our sin is no longer imputed to us, but this is by no means license to disobey the wonderful guide lines written on stone tablets for us by our Father. If there is anything inherently wrong with honoring your father and your mother, having no other god before you, making a graven image to worship, not stealing, not bearing false witness, not sharing one day separated to be with our Maker, etc, you must demonstrate you know this. I do know Jesus teaches us anyone teaching against the least of any of these laws will be least in the kingdom. No guide to good behavior is obsolete, even though we are free of the curse of sin, that being death. We are not perfect in this age, however we are counted as such because of Yeshua dwelling in our hearts. Now let us praise Yahweh, for He is good, His mercy endures forever, amen

As I said in my other posts, it's seeking to establish righteousness by works that makes a person a sinner, Gal 2:18.[/QUOTE

Hi JaumeJ,

Jesus set us free from sin (John 8:36).
Only our past sin was dealt with at the cross, Rom 3:25, which means there is no more subsequent sin after the cross as we've been totally cleansed/purged of sin.
Christians have "ceased from sin", 1Pet 4:1, "cannot sin", 1John 3:9. Christ's perfect sacrifice was not like those yearly sacrifices of bulls/goats.

So if Satan, the accuser, cannot charge us with sin, Rom 8:33, how can anyone else charge us with sin/transgression of the law (1John 3:4)?

Christians have been saved by grace, without the deeds of the law, as the gospel testifies. Christ is the END of the law for righteousness, Rom 10:4

I hope you're not preaching that righteousness is determined by obedience to the law?

 

[JaumeJ]

Not at all, reread my post in response to you, and you will find I am repeating the teaching of the Master Who died for our sins. We have become as the subject of the Psalmist in Psalm 32, in that our sin is not imputed to us any more, however it is not license to sin just because we are freed. As for obeying any law which is a guide line to good and moral behavior, there is no fault in teaching it for the glory of Jesus, for to teach against would be inglorious, and to do such is wrong.[QUOTE=haz;954058]

Anyone experiencing the glorious and free salvation by the Blood of the Lamb is grateful to Yahweh, God. Being shown by the law that the wages of sin is death, and being freed from the curse of the law, that being its wages, the punishment which leads to death we are free to avoid sin. The only manner to avoid it is to not do it. Granted we are living under grace, and the guilt of our sin is no longer imputed to us, but this is by no means license to disobey the wonderful guide lines written on stone tablets for us by our Father. If there is anything inherently wrong with honoring your father and your mother, having no other god before you, making a graven image to worship, not stealing, not bearing false witness, not sharing one day separated to be with our Maker, etc, you must demonstrate you know this. I do know Jesus teaches us anyone teaching against the least of any of these laws will be least in the kingdom. No guide to good behavior is obsolete, even though we are free of the curse of sin, that being death. We are not perfect in this age, however we are counted as such because of Yeshua dwelling in our hearts. Now let us praise Yahweh, for He is good, His mercy endures forever, amen

Hi JaumeJ,

Jesus set us free from sin (John 8:36).
Only our past sin was dealt with at the cross, Rom 3:25, which means there is no more subsequent sin after the cross as we've been totally cleansed/purged of sin.
Christians have "ceased from sin", 1Pet 4:1, "cannot sin", 1John 3:9. Christ's perfect sacrifice was not like those yearly sacrifices of bulls/goats.

So if Satan, the accuser, cannot charge us with sin, Rom 8:33, how can anyone else charge us with sin/transgression of the law (1John 3:4)?

Christians have been saved by grace, without the deeds of the law, as the gospel testifies. Christ is the END of the law for righteousness, Rom 10:4

I hope you're not preaching that righteousness is determined by obedience to the law?

 

[hermanodaniel]

Everyone who believes in Christ are justified from all things that they could not be justified by the law of Moses. (Acts 13:39 cf. John 6:28-29; John 13:34-35 and 1 John 3:23)

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. Romans 7:6

The letter is in referenced to the commandments written on stone tablets which is part of the OT
The newness of spirit refers to the commands given by Christ himself aka Law of Christ (John 6:28-29; John 13:34-35; 1 John 3:23) written on our hearts and minds which is under the New Covenant (not renewed NEW!) Hence why God stated I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah NOT ACCORDING TO THE COVENANT that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt... Jeremiah 31 cf. Hebrews 8 & 9

For those just tuning in I have pointed this out graciously and lovingly in my previous comments. God Bless those who have decided to observe a physical sabbath unto God but please understand that obliging others in Christ to do so as proof of obedience is reverting back to the oldness of the letter and the bondage of fear that has tormented man from the beginning Hebrews 2:15 (cf Acts 15:5-11). As it is Born again Christians are observing the Sabbath Rest In Christ daily including Saturday which is spiritual and the man after the spirit cannot be judged by the natural man. 1 Corinthians 2:15

 

[hermanodaniel]

Loveme1, please no offense was ever meant, that reaction is possibly of the flesh, emotions hurt. I was not digging at you. I apologize if I hurt you. I have been under the curse of the Law, not the Love, I tried very hard to obey it to the "T" and failed. It was as if I put ten apples in a tub of water and I was determined to hold all ten under water at the same time. I could get nine down feeling pretty good about myself go for the tenth and the other nine would pop back up. I kept at it until I gave up and yelled I can't do this, and that is when I heard God say THANK YOU, I said what, God said thank you again, I started listening. And heard thisis what I have been waiting for is you to give up trying to obey Law because you can't and noone can. I am the onlyone that has since Adam and Eve. Now if you will start then you will stop. I siud well I did start. God said no you have not, you have been trying to stop so you can start. I said yes. God said Howard start loving your wife and there will be no time for Adultery, start working and there willbe no time for stealing, ultimately START the NEW LIFE in ME Christ, That iswhat I (CHrist) came to do first die for you once you see this being freed then Ican give you new life once you give up your efforts and so I did and no longer mix Law and Grace now trusting at rest in him, no more stressin the way and he does it well through me

AMEN! GLORY TO GOD!

 

[mpaper345]

We always have to obey the moral laws of God which never pass away and the 10 commandments are moral laws of God,and also the Bible says love works no ill towards their neighbor;therefore love is the fulfilling of the law which the 10 commandments are laws of love towards God and people.

I do believe that we do have to keep the sabbath but I believe it is a spiritual sabbath,a spiritual rest by the Holy Spirit.

I believe that the physical day of rest was given only to the Jews and the Old Testament and not the New Testament Church.

In Isaiah chapter 28 it says that will stammering lips and another tongue will He speak to these people saying this is the rest wherewith you may cause the weary to rest and this is the refreshing,but they would not hear,as so many people today will not hear,which can only be in the New Testament by the Spirit.

The Bible says that Jesus took the ordinances of Israel and nailed them to His cross taking them out of the way,and that is because they are physical ordinances that cannot provide salvation.Therefore let no man judge you in meats,drinks,holy days,new moons,or sabbath days,which means no person can tell you to keep these ordinances because Jesus took them out of the way.

This includes sabbath days that we do not have to keep them because it is a physical ordinance and we obey the sabbath by receiving the Spirit and that spiritual rest.

This is what it seems like to me.

 

[Laodicea]

Yes obedience is what God seeks from us. And it's obedience to the gospel of grace that He refers to.

What is God's will?
this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

This is the gospel that we are to obey.

Our works that shows our faith is the same thing; Believe in Jesus, John 6:29.

The sin the world is convicted of is; Unbelief in Jesus, John 16:9.

There is no works of the law included in this gospel. We cannot mix grace with works of the law, Rom 11:6

Matthew 19:17 KJV
(17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

[JesusChica1991]

I commemorate a spiritual Sabbath...not a physical Sabbath. The early church met in the EARLY morning because they had to get back home and...*drumroll*...WORK! Christ did miracles on the Sabbath with his hands...If you used your hands for doing anything on the Sabbath, it was considered work...so nope, I don't observe the Sabbath in terms of WORK.

 

[haz]

Haz,

Keeping the Commandments is rebelling?

Sin is keeping the Commandments?

This is not true.

Just to explain further to my earlier post, you make yourself a transgressor/sinner by being under the law, as Gal 2:18 says.

This is because the law/10 commandments required perfect obedience (James 2:10). Just one offense makes you guilty of all the law, thus making you a transgressor/sinner.

So anyone teaching adding the law/10 commandments to salvation is leading others astray into being a sinner.

 

[haz]

Matthew 19:17 KJV
(17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Note also the verses after Matt 19:17
Matt 19:20,21
The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

If you want to be perfect, forsake the world and follow Jesus. That is be obedient to the gospel, believing in Jesus.

 

[haz]

Not at all, reread my post in response to you, and you will find I am repeating the teaching of the Master Who died for our sins. We have become as the subject of the Psalmist in Psalm 32, in that our sin is not imputed to us any more, however it is not license to sin just because we are freed. As for obeying any law which is a guide line to good and moral behavior, there is no fault in teaching it for the glory of Jesus, for to teach against would be inglorious, and to do such is wrong.[QUOTE=haz;954058]

I'm curious whether you see Christians as being unrighteous if they do not obey the law. Let's use the issue of this topic for example, the Sabbath. If a Christian does not keep the Sabbath are they unrighteous? Are they sinning?

 

[hermanodaniel]

I'm curious whether you see Christians as being unrighteous if they do not obey the law. Let's use the issue of this topic for example, the Sabbath. If a Christian does not keep the Sabbath are they unrighteous? Are they sinning?

I would rephrase that question, If a Christian does not keep the Sabbath in the form of the letter are they unrighteous? Are they sinning? The answer to that is no, since they have died to the letter of the law.

 

[haz]

We always have to obey the moral laws of God which never pass away and the 10 commandments are moral laws of God,and also the Bible says love works no ill towards their neighbor;therefore love is the fulfilling of the law which the 10 commandments are laws of love towards God and people.

I do believe that we do have to keep the sabbath but I believe it is a spiritual sabbath,a spiritual rest by the Holy Spirit.

I believe that the physical day of rest was given only to the Jews and the Old Testament and not the New Testament Church.

In Isaiah chapter 28 it says that will stammering lips and another tongue will He speak to these people saying this is the rest wherewith you may cause the weary to rest and this is the refreshing,but they would not hear,as so many people today will not hear,which can only be in the New Testament by the Spirit.

The Bible says that Jesus took the ordinances of Israel and nailed them to His cross taking them out of the way,and that is because they are physical ordinances that cannot provide salvation.Therefore let no man judge you in meats,drinks,holy days,new moons,or sabbath days,which means no person can tell you to keep these ordinances because Jesus took them out of the way.

This includes sabbath days that we do not have to keep them because it is a physical ordinance and we obey the sabbath by receiving the Spirit and that spiritual rest.

This is what it seems like to me.

Well said.

Jesus' commandments are to believe in Jesus and love one another, 1John 3:23. And love does no ill to another, Rom 13:10.

Christians enter in to God's rest, the spiritual Sabbath.

You are correct that some professing Christians do not hear God's word today and continue to preach works of the law.
Isa 29:13 explains why.
Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:

You are correct, as we now have the Spirit we can receive understanding of His word.
Isa 29:13
And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

 

[haz]

I would rephrase that question, If a Christian does not keep the Sabbath in the form of the letter are they unrighteous? Are they sinning? The answer to that is no, since they have died to the letter of the law.

Thanks for your rephrasing. I did imply the same with my question. My concern is that some here preach condemnation/death for not adhering to the law.