Do You Believe Unrepentant Sinners in Hell Can be Saved?

[PaulThomson]

Site the source from where you're getting this from. I don't trust anything you say, so I looked it up myself:

2 Thessalonians 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

2 Thessalonians 1:9 οἵτινες δίκην τίσουσιν ὄλεθρον αἰώνιον ἀπὸ προσώπου τοῦ κυρίου καὶ ἀπὸ τῆς δόξης τῆς ἰσχύος αὐτοῦ,

This is the break-down:
https://biblehub.com/text/2_thessalonians/1-9.htm

According to this break-down, αἰώνιον means eternal, not just for a certain period of time like you're claiming.

This short article explains the problem you are having relying on one concordance.
https://makepeacewithjesus.org/4-scholars

 

[PaulThomson]

You assume too much about me, and ignore too much about Scripture.

"Today is the day of salvation."
"It is appointed unto man to die once, and then the judgment."
"Between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us."

These statements from Scripture have no place in your view.

If there is not an eternal distinction between those who have believed in Christ in this life, and those who have not, then He died for nothing. If people can taste eternity without Him and then choose where to spend it, then faith is meaningless.

I don't resent other fallen humans finding mercy, which is why I tell them about the mercy available now to them, and I tell them that mercy will not be available forever. That is far more merciful than telling them they might find mercy after death, before they discover how terribly and unchangeably wrong that is.

The next time you discover a nuance of meaning in a word of Scripture, I suggest you think broadly and deeply about its implications before drawing conclusions.

I agree with what those scriptures say as well. But not necessarily what you want to read into them. You are diverting to other scriptures to support your forced reading of 2 Thess. 1:9, because 2 Thess. 1:9 does not specifically say what you want it to say.

Tomorrow will become today one day.
Jan 1 2027 will become today one day.
Do you really think that today, Feb 28, 2024, the offer of mercy expires.

We need to read scripture for what it says, not read into it what we think it should say, or what some teacher told us it teaches.

 

[PaulThomson]

2 Thessalonians 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might

Here is an explanation of the Scripture.

He will punish those who do not know God: "Do not know God" doesn't imply mere ignorance but a willful rejection of God's revelation of Himself in creation and conscience. Also, it highlights a state of rebellion and active opposition to God.

and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus: This emphasizes the importance of accepting the message of salvation offered through Jesus Christ. This obedience involves faith, repentance, and surrender of one's life to His Lordship.

They will be punished with everlasting destruction: "Everlasting destruction" refers to eternal separation from God and the experience of His wrath. This destruction is a consequence of sin and rejection of God's offer of salvation.

and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might: It reiterates the idea of eternal separation from God, who is the source of all goodness, joy, and love. It emphasizes the loss of any hope for future restoration or reconciliation with God.

There are several reasons for these verses:

Seriousness of Sin: Highlights the severe consequences of sin and rejecting God's love and salvation.

Urgency of the Gospel: Emphasizes the urgency of sharing the gospel message, as eternal destiny hangs on the response.

God's Justice: Affirms God's justice and His unwavering commitment to righteousness. He won't ignore those who oppose Him and refuse His grace.

Hope of Salvation: Implicitly offers hope by highlighting that the path of salvation through faith in Jesus is still available for all.

• Balanced View: This passage, while sobering, should be understood within the broader context of God's love, mercy, and desire that all would be saved (2 Peter 3:9).
• Role of Human Choice: It emphasizes that people have a choice in their eternal destiny. God grants free will, and this passage highlights the consequences of rejecting His offer of grace.

The greek word aOnios does not have the only possible meaning of everlasting. Young translates it a age-during, which is the more literal generic meaning of the word. So, you are reading everlasting into the text.

 

[PaulThomson]

The notion that unrepentant sinners in hell can still be saved directly contradicts numerous biblical teachings about the nature of salvation, judgment, and the afterlife. Here's why this statement is absurd according to the Bible:

1. Salvation Requires Repentance and Faith:

• The Bible consistently emphasizes that salvation is ONLY possible through repentance (turning away from sin) and faith in Jesus Christ. Examples:
  • Acts 3:19: "Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out..."
  • John 3:16: "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
• Unrepentant sinners, by definition, reject the very foundation of salvation.

1. Death Seals One's Destiny:

• The Bible paints a clear picture that death solidifies a person's eternal state. This is seen in:
  • Hebrews 9:27: "Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment..."
  • The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31): This vividly illustrates the unchangeable nature of the afterlife; there's no second chance after death.

1. Hell as a Place of Eternal Separation:

• The Bible describes hell as a place of eternal torment, conscious suffering, and separation from God. Examples:
  • Revelation 20:10: "...And the devil... was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur... and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever"
  • Matthew 25:41: "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.'"

1. God's Justice and Finality of Judgment:

• The Bible depicts God as a just judge who will render a final and irreversible verdict.
  • Revelation 20:11-15: Describes the Great White Throne judgment where everyone is judged based on their deeds.
  • 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9: Affirms God's punishment for those who reject Him.
• Allowing unrepentant sinners to be saved from hell undermines God's justice and the seriousness of sin.

In Conclusion:

The idea of salvation for unrepentant sinners in hell contradicts the Bible's central teachings about repentance, faith, the finality of death, the nature of hell, and God's justice. It's a false hope that undermines the urgency of the gospel message and the need for people to turn to God in this life while there's still a chance for salvation.

Let me know if you have further questions about the biblical concepts of salvation, judgment, and the afterlife.

None of what you wrote answers what I actually said. Please deal with what is said, not some spin-off related(?) doctrinal hobby-horse your mind jumps to in reaction to what I wrote.

 

[PaulThomson]

I don't resent other fallen humans finding mercy, which is why I tell them about the mercy available now to them, and I tell them that mercy will not be available forever. That is far more merciful than telling them they might find mercy after death, before they discover how terribly and unchangeably wrong that is.

Someone doesn't have to tell people that they might find salvation after death just because that someone doesn't find "there is no chance of salvation after death" the Bible. Not affirming something does not equate to affirming the opposite. Have you considered that your telling someone there is no chance of mercy after death might actually harden them against the gospel, because they find unworthy of worship the God you are guessing to be biblical, when He might not be as unforgiving after death as you imagine him to be.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

No. It's simply honestly admitting the limits of what the scripture cited actually says without reading an opinion into the text.

You should ask yourself why it is that, now that you believe you are elect and saved by grace through faith, you so resent other fallen beings receiving the same grace and mercy that you would prefer to read their eternal damnation into a text rather than admit the text leaves them some possibility of finding mercy from God.

Who said the unbeliever still does not have hope to repent as long as they are still alive?

Now once they have passed this earth, it is over for them. their time and ability to repent has passed

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Someone doesn't have to tell people that they might find salvation after death just because that someone doesn't find "there is no chance of salvation after death" the Bible. Not affirming something does not equate to affirming the opposite. Have you considered that your telling someone there is no chance of mercy after death might actually harden them against the gospel, because they find unworthy of worship the God you are guessing to be biblical, when He might not be as unforgiving after death as you imagine him to be.

so we should deceive them and let them know they may repent after death, and give them the ability to live in sin here all they want. They can come to Jesus after they leave this world.

Talk about dangerous gospel..

Also. Who would reject Jesus after they enter hades?? No one would reject.

so in essence saying they can is universalism as @Dino246 said

 

[Dino246]

I agree with what those scriptures say as well. But not necessarily what you want to read into them. You are diverting to other scriptures to support your forced reading of 2 Thess. 1:9, because 2 Thess. 1:9 does not specifically say what you want it to say.

What I am doing is using the context of Scripture to limit the possible interpretation of 2 Thess 1:9. That is sound hermeneutical practice.

We need to read scripture for what it says, not read into it what we think it should say, or what some teacher told us it teaches.

Read that into a mirror.

 

[notmyown]

the word translated as everlasting is aiOniov, an adjective formed from aiOn meaning "an age". It means age-long, not everlasting. Do a word search. . According to Ephesians 2:7 there are coming ages,. so age-long may not mean forever in 2 Thess. 1:9.

the two-age idea is pretty strong in the Bible. this (present evil) age, and the age to come. just the two.

how many ages do you figure on?

 

[notmyown]

after death, you wouldn't be saved by faith, but by sight.

sigh

 

[PaulThomson]

Who said the unbeliever still does not have hope to repent as long as they are still alive?

Now once they have passed this earth, it is over for them. their time and ability to repent has passed

Where does scripture say "Now once they have passed this earth, it is over for them. their time and ability to repent has passed".

 

[PaulThomson]

the two-age idea is pretty strong in the Bible. this (present evil) age, and the age to come. just the two.

how many ages do you figure on?

How many ages could Eph. 2:7 possibly be speaking of? Does the fact that scripture mainly focuses on this age and the age to come mean that there are no ages after the age to come? Could "eye has not seen nor ear heard what God has in store for those who love him" refer to more than one age to come. Immortality is a long time stretching on to infinity. How many ages could God fit into infinite time? Do you think He has run out of ideas for us after the new heaven and new earth are formed and we are on it?

 

[tylerbones1313]

Where does scripture say "Now once they have passed this earth, it is over for them. their time and ability to repent has passed".

Right here:
Luke Chapter 16
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[PaulThomson]

so we should deceive them and let them know they may repent after death, and give them the ability to live in sin here all they want. They can come to Jesus after they leave this world.

You don't listen very well. Saying the Bible does not say A, is not the same as saying the Bible therefore must be saying "not A".

 

[PaulThomson]

Right here:
Luke Chapter 16
22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;

23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.

26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.

27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:

28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.

31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

When did Lazarus and the rich man die? Before Jesus died and rose again and received back the glory He had with the Father before the the world began? Or after that? Did Jesus' victory over death make any difference to the way the underworld processed souls??

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

Do You Believe Unrepentant Sinners in Hell Can be Saved?

There's no BIBLICAL REASON to believe that HELL is anything other than ETERNAL. And NO!!!! if you find yourself there, you're NEVER getting out.

 

[PaulThomson]

after death, you wouldn't be saved by faith, but by sight.

sigh

Where does scripture say that? I'm not going to base my theology on things you just make up out of thin air.

 

[PaulThomson]

There's no BIBLICAL REASON to believe that HELL is anything other than ETERNAL. And NO!!!! if you find yourself there, you're NEVER getting out.

Fortunately, you are not God. What does God actually say about that?

 

[PaulThomson]

There's no BIBLICAL REASON to believe that HELL is anything other than ETERNAL. And NO!!!! if you find yourself there, you're NEVER getting out.

There is no biblical reason to say that in any case Hell is eternal, if you realise that the New Testament was written in greek, and eternity was not a concept the Jews had in mind when the Bible was written..

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

There is no biblical reason to say that in any case Hell is eternal, if you realise that the New Testament was written in greek, and eternity was not a concept the Jews had in mind when the Bible was written..

Chuckle!!! Believe whatever fantasy lights your fire!!!!