Do you have doubts about your understanding of Christianity?

[Davidstarr]

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Gen 1:2

"The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen." Job 38:30


Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: John 16:13

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. .John 14:17

And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. John 15:27

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. .John 3:31

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: Matt 3:16

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. Luke 3:22


(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; John 7:39

Keep in mind after the 40 days in the wilderness Jesus began to teach that the kingdom of God was at hand and the TIME WAS FULFILLED. Mark 1:15

What fulfillment of time could Jesus be talking about such a short time after His baptism?
I can think of nothing else except the OT prophecies concerning the coming of the Messiah.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

"And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Gen 1:2

"The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen." Job 38:30


Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. .John 14:17

And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. John 15:27

And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. John 3:13

He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. .John 3:31

But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. John 14:26

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: Matt 3:16

And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. Luke 3:22


(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; John 7:39

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Gen 1:2

“And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: John 16:13”

“even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:17,

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”
‭‭John‬ ‭18:37‬ ‭

“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.”
‭‭John‬ ‭4:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all. And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony. He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true. For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand. He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:31-36‬ ‭

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭

Not sure the point we’re discussing lol but a lot of good scriptures you posted !

 

[Burn1986]

Some Christians think that if they have doubts it means their faith is weak. I find that a little bit strange because sometimes it takes a pretty strong faith not to be afraid of your doubts.

Let’s look at Thomas. The other disciples tell him Jesus is alive. Thomas essentially says, “I going to need some evidence.” Jesus does not throw him out and doesn’t call him faithless. He doesn’t revoke his discipleship membership card. Jesus meets Thomas right there in his doubts.

It has been my experience that the faith that can’t allow questions is often at risk for its fragility. Many live in a world afraid of questions, doubts and things not fully understood. It can seem like some are afraid of pulling on a thread might make the whole thing fall apart.

Strong faith can say, “I have questions.” “I could be wrong, but there still some things I don’t understand. But I am not afraid to go looking for answers anyway.

Perhaps strong faith is not faith without doubts, because if your faith cannot survive a question maybe the problem is not the question.

Well, what was the disciples’ faith like after they received the Holy Spirit? It was very different (in a good way).

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

And God wants us to seek out the truth not just go by what people say.

Amen. Almost from day 1 of my faith, I was taught one important principle: "Always stay With The Scriptures".

Fits my longing / search for The Truth, The Whole Truth, and nothing But The Truth! Amen.

 

[biblestudent78]

Well, what was the disciples’ faith like after they received the Holy Spirit? It was very different (in a good way).

Burn1986:
I think I understand your statement to mean after they received the Holy Spirit all differences in their understanding of Christianity and all important differences stopped. If that is what you meant, then consider:
1. There is significant differences in the life of Paul as told by Paul and that as told In Acts. Both claiming the leadership of the Holy Spirit.
2. There were significant confrontations in understanding the will of God between early Christian leaders, Jame, Peter and Paul
3. Paul agreed to follow the judgement of the gathered leaders of the Christians in a meeting in Jerusalem then violated and taught violation of 3 or the 4 things agreed upon by the unified leaders of the church. Thus suggesting that what the Holy Spirit imparted to James, Peter and possibly the other Apostles was very different from what the Holy Spirit led Paul to preach.
4. Throughout the first 2 centuries of Christianity many different authoritative books, letters and eye witnesses led to very different of doctrines, sacred books, worship services, church organization and relationships between Christian and non-Christian communities across the Roman Empire.
5. Many consider the Bible as the work of the Holy Spirit. Our biblical canon of 27 books were not official recognized until the period between 382 AD and 419 AD under the guidance of the Roman Empire which began to view Christianity as a potential asset of the Roman Empire dating from the Roman Emperor's invitation to Christian Bishops from around the Empire to join him in resolving existing theological issues in Christianity as practiced in different geographic locations. Between that date and the 380 AD, Romanized Christianity became the state religion and all other "pagan" religions were outlawed. Non-Christians often make the case that Christianity and the eventual Bible was not so much the product of the Holy Spirit as of the Roman Empire. Some 1,137 years later, the Protestant rebellion emerged under the claims it too was by the "inspiration of the Holy Spirit."

 

[UnoiAmarah]

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters." Gen 1:2

So is that Spirit of God that moved upon the waters referring unto God the Father, the Son of God, or the Holy Spirit ?

Since they are three separate personages that are distinct from each other; the Father is not the Son who is not Holy Spirit. While they each God, they all share the same divine nature making them one God, not three.

“Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: John 16:13”

And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 1:4-6

 

[Pilgrimshope]

So is that Spirit of God that moved upon the waters referring unto God the Father, the Son of God, or the Holy Spirit ?

Since they are three separate personages that are distinct from each other; the Father is not the Son who is not Holy Spirit. While they each God, they all share the same divine nature making them one God, not three.


And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 1:4-6

“And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1 John 1:4-6“

Amen ……

“Hearken unto me, my people; and give ear unto me, O my nation: for a law shall proceed from me, and I will make my judgment to rest for a light of the people.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭51:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

 

[GRACE_ambassador]

my longing / search for The Truth, The Whole Truth, and nothing But The Truth!

1. There is significant differences in the life of Paul as told by Paul and that as told In Acts. Both claiming the leadership of the Holy Spirit.
2. There were significant confrontations in understanding the will of God between early Christian leaders, Jame, Peter and Paul
3. Paul agreed to follow the judgement of the gathered leaders of the Christians in a meeting in Jerusalem then violated and taught violation of 3 or the 4 things agreed upon by the unified leaders of the church. Thus suggesting that what the Holy Spirit imparted to James, Peter and possibly the other Apostles was very different from what the Holy Spirit led Paul to preach.

These are Very Important points to bring to the forefront of understanding / doubting Christianity.
imho, The Following is The Explanation Causing my no-doubt In Scripture understanding:

God's Two Different Programs - ie: ​

​

Briefly: 1) God's Previous Context of:

"Prophecy/Covenants/Law" {earthly} Christ And The Twelve, gospel of the kingdom,
to: ISRAEL [Twelve tribes] prominent! {past/future} = christianity? Or:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!" (BBS)

2) God's Other Context Of:

"Mystery/GRACE!" {Heavenly!} Risen And Glorified Christ, Gospel Of GRACE, to:
One apostle, to: Jew And Gentile "Equal!" In The ONE Body Of CHRIST
(Romans - Philemon AV)

Again, imho, # 2 is the Christianity I have no doubts of.

Further review?:

UnScriptural or UNdispensational?

-----------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

 

[Burn1986]

Burn1986:
I think I understand your statement to mean after they received the Holy Spirit all differences in their understanding of Christianity and all important differences stopped. If that is what you meant, then consider:
1. There is significant differences in the life of Paul as told by Paul and that as told In Acts. Both claiming the leadership of the Holy Spirit.
2. There were significant confrontations in understanding the will of God between early Christian leaders, Jame, Peter and Paul
3. Paul agreed to follow the judgement of the gathered leaders of the Christians in a meeting in Jerusalem then violated and taught violation of 3 or the 4 things agreed upon by the unified leaders of the church. Thus suggesting that what the Holy Spirit imparted to James, Peter and possibly the other Apostles was very different from what the Holy Spirit led Paul to preach.
4. Throughout the first 2 centuries of Christianity many different authoritative books, letters and eye witnesses led to very different of doctrines, sacred books, worship services, church organization and relationships between Christian and non-Christian communities across the Roman Empire.
5. Many consider the Bible as the work of the Holy Spirit. Our biblical canon of 27 books were not official recognized until the period between 382 AD and 419 AD under the guidance of the Roman Empire which began to view Christianity as a potential asset of the Roman Empire dating from the Roman Emperor's invitation to Christian Bishops from around the Empire to join him in resolving existing theological issues in Christianity as practiced in different geographic locations. Between that date and the 380 AD, Romanized Christianity became the state religion and all other "pagan" religions were outlawed. Non-Christians often make the case that Christianity and the eventual Bible was not so much the product of the Holy Spirit as of the Roman Empire. Some 1,137 years later, the Protestant rebellion emerged under the claims it too was by the "inspiration of the Holy Spirit."

When you say “the understanding of Christianity” why do you limit Christianity to the mind, logic, and reasoning? Jesus said “what is born of the flesh (mind , will, emotions, 5 senses) is flesh. What is born of the Spirit is Spirit. Christianity started out as Jesus followers, and later were called Christians. Jesus was all about the Spirit, not logic, reasoning, or human way of doing things.

 

[biblestudent78]

When you say “the understanding of Christianity” why do you limit Christianity to the mind, logic, and reasoning? Jesus said “what is born of the flesh (mind , will, emotions, 5 senses) is flesh. What is born of the Spirit is Spirit. Christianity started out as Jesus followers, and later were called Christians. Jesus was all about the Spirit, not logic, reasoning, or human way of doing things.

Burn1986:
Let me see if I can expand your idea that "Jesus was all about spirit." I believe that Jesus was all about obedience. Obedience takes faith but faith is just the enabler. The "spirit" is ephemeral and open to virtually any interpretation/application. Jesus was vastly more concrete. Jesus was all about reasoning with unconverted lives. While this Jesus may lack sufficient focus on the "spirit," he wanted us to deal with His concrete earthly instructions:
Jesus commandments take at least four forms.
Commands about the character of the new person “be this kind of new person”
Commands that define the heart of the new person
Commands for the new person to avoid
Commands related to our common mission

Character of the New Person
Be light – Let your light shine Matt 5:16
Be salt Matt 5:17
Be a servant Matt 23:11
Be a reconciler Matt 5:23-24, 18:15-17
Be on guard against greed and sin Luke 12:15, Matt 26:41
Take sin very seriously (Matthew 5:29–30)
Be perfect (in love) Matt 5:48
Be forgiving Matt 18:21-22
Be repentant Matt 4:17
Be born again John 3:5
Be the person who will go the second mile Matt 5:41
Be the person who can turn the other cheek Matt 5:39
Be the person who always gives to those who ask Matt 5:42
Be the person who will always loan their stuff Matt 5:42
Be the person who seeks Gods Kingdom first Matt 6:33
Be the person who honors their marriage Mark 10:6-9
Be the person who takes communion Matt 26:26-27
Be poor in spirit Matt 5:3
Be meek Matt 5:5
Be the person who hungers and thirsts for righteousness Matt 5:6
Be merciful Matt 5:7
Be pure of heart Matt 5:8
Be peace makers 5:9
Be the person who comes to Jesus for rest Matt 11:28

Heart of the New Person
Love and pray for your enemies Matt 5:44-46
The Golden Rule Matt 7:12
Love God Matt 22:37-38
Love your neighbor as yourself Matt 22:39
Love one another as I have loved you John 13:34, John 15:12, John 15:17
Love and invite the poor into your life Luke 14:12-14
Show your love by:
Feeding the hungry and quenching the thirsty Matt 25:35
Inviting in the stranger Matt 25:35
Clothing the naked Matt 25:36
Visiting the sick Matt 25:36
Visiting those in prison Matt 25:36

Things the New Person should avoid
Make no oaths – don’t swear Matt 5:34, 37
Don’t judge others Matt 7:1
Don’t lust Matt 5:27-30
Don’t fear those that can kill the body Matt 10:28
Don’t store up treasures on earth Matt 6:19

The Mission of the New Person
Find and enter the narrow gate Matt 7:13-14
Ask God for more harvest workers Matt 9:37-38
Preach the Gospel Matt 28:19-20
Make disciples, baptize them and teach them to obey my commandments Matt 28:19-20
Let your light shine before all people (Matthew 5:16)
Be reconciled to one another (Matthew 5:23–24)
Take sin very seriously (Matthew 5:29–30)

These commands are about the achieving true conversion, true rebirth and true alignment with the will of God for our lives. Nothing overtly "spiritual" about these commands but they do lead to a harmony with the heart of God.

Burn, now I want you to take a minute and read the entire 25th chapter of Matthew. Then let's discuss further whether Jesus was all about "spiritual" things or about calling out of the world a new kind of people.

 

[biblestudent78]

These are Very Important points to bring to the forefront of understanding / doubting Christianity.
imho, The Following is The Explanation Causing my no-doubt In Scripture understanding:

God's Two Different Programs - ie: ​

​

Briefly: 1) God's Previous Context of:

"Prophecy/Covenants/Law" {earthly} Christ And The Twelve, gospel of the kingdom,
to: ISRAEL [Twelve tribes] prominent! {past/future} = christianity? Or:

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 AV) From “Things That Differ!" (BBS)

2) God's Other Context Of:

"Mystery/GRACE!" {Heavenly!} Risen And Glorified Christ, Gospel Of GRACE, to:
One apostle, to: Jew And Gentile "Equal!" In The ONE Body Of CHRIST
(Romans - Philemon AV)

Again, imho, # 2 is the Christianity I have no doubts of.

Further review?:

UnScriptural or UNdispensational?

-----------
And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

GRACE_ambassor:
I am not here to disparage anyone's personal testimony. Your beliefs are your own. The question I raised was not about doubts of Christianity. The question addresses how we understand christianity, how we understand the orthodoxy we have accepted. Many who were raised on one church were confronted with different dogmas in their next church. Those who have interacted widely on Christian related issues find a very widespread set of hardened dogmas that "must be believed."

On the subject of truth. There is but one truth. Jesus the Christ is both the Word and the Truth.

 

[Burn1986]

Burn1986:
Let me see if I can expand your idea that "Jesus was all about spirit." I believe that Jesus was all about obedience. Obedience takes faith but faith is just the enabler. The "spirit" is ephemeral and open to virtually any interpretation/application. Jesus was vastly more concrete. Jesus was all about reasoning with unconverted lives. While this Jesus may lack sufficient focus on the "spirit," he wanted us to deal with His concrete earthly instructions:
Jesus commandments take at least four forms.
Commands about the character of the new person “be this kind of new person”
Commands that define the heart of the new person
Commands for the new person to avoid
Commands related to our common mission

Character of the New Person
Be light – Let your light shine Matt 5:16
Be salt Matt 5:17
Be a servant Matt 23:11
Be a reconciler Matt 5:23-24, 18:15-17
Be on guard against greed and sin Luke 12:15, Matt 26:41
Take sin very seriously (Matthew 5:29–30)
Be perfect (in love) Matt 5:48
Be forgiving Matt 18:21-22
Be repentant Matt 4:17
Be born again John 3:5
Be the person who will go the second mile Matt 5:41
Be the person who can turn the other cheek Matt 5:39
Be the person who always gives to those who ask Matt 5:42
Be the person who will always loan their stuff Matt 5:42
Be the person who seeks Gods Kingdom first Matt 6:33
Be the person who honors their marriage Mark 10:6-9
Be the person who takes communion Matt 26:26-27
Be poor in spirit Matt 5:3
Be meek Matt 5:5
Be the person who hungers and thirsts for righteousness Matt 5:6
Be merciful Matt 5:7
Be pure of heart Matt 5:8
Be peace makers 5:9
Be the person who comes to Jesus for rest Matt 11:28

Heart of the New Person
Love and pray for your enemies Matt 5:44-46
The Golden Rule Matt 7:12
Love God Matt 22:37-38
Love your neighbor as yourself Matt 22:39
Love one another as I have loved you John 13:34, John 15:12, John 15:17
Love and invite the poor into your life Luke 14:12-14
Show your love by:
Feeding the hungry and quenching the thirsty Matt 25:35
Inviting in the stranger Matt 25:35
Clothing the naked Matt 25:36
Visiting the sick Matt 25:36
Visiting those in prison Matt 25:36

Things the New Person should avoid
Make no oaths – don’t swear Matt 5:34, 37
Don’t judge others Matt 7:1
Don’t lust Matt 5:27-30
Don’t fear those that can kill the body Matt 10:28
Don’t store up treasures on earth Matt 6:19

The Mission of the New Person
Find and enter the narrow gate Matt 7:13-14
Ask God for more harvest workers Matt 9:37-38
Preach the Gospel Matt 28:19-20
Make disciples, baptize them and teach them to obey my commandments Matt 28:19-20
Let your light shine before all people (Matthew 5:16)
Be reconciled to one another (Matthew 5:23–24)
Take sin very seriously (Matthew 5:29–30)

These commands are about the achieving true conversion, true rebirth and true alignment with the will of God for our lives. Nothing overtly "spiritual" about these commands but they do lead to a harmony with the heart of God.

Burn, now I want you to take a minute and read the entire 25th chapter of Matthew. Then let's discuss further whether Jesus was all about "spiritual" things or about calling out of the world a new kind of people.

No.