Doctrinal Thoughts

[Quickfire]

I personally don't believe in "doctrine" as this changes with different people, denominations etc. What Christ taught is fairly simple, and not confusing. I choose to read His teachings and allow God to work through them to teach me. I have read the Bible through many times and for the life of me I really don't understand why it is being made so confusing to others or any one for that matter. There is only one doctrine, one church and that is the body of Christ, the ones who have given their all to follow Him. No preconcieved notions, no making things fit, just honest humble belilef in the one true God and creator.
Blessings to all

of the if i understand you correctly you saying the true church is the body of christ,

Think about this the bible says to believers are saved. and unberlievers are not, thats a fact, point blank , no getting away from that, now if the unbelievers just cary on in their dotrne of not believing then this doctrine needs to be adress , for the sake of others and yourself, as you carnt just sit there andsay nothing when you could of said something, the lord says he will hold you me or whoever resposible for that. ,, so in that sense thats where actions come in, and with faith and theword of jesus you are part of the church,or anyone else if you they are part of the church, yhen you should no that doctrine, to,, the doctrin of helping a brother or sister to see the light, in a good way if poss, but doesnt always pan out sometimes for me sometimes anyway but at least i try and writng the word is not always enough someimes ye have to speak it , ill show you more later anyways bless peace bewith yer

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

THE doctrine Paul discussed is what they were taught. That's what it means, teachings. PAUL objected to all but the people appointed by the Church and Christ to "teach them". That's why he had such angst to the circumcision group, and other groups.

TODAY, with all the other denominations you have, every one of them is a non doctrinal denomination by the standards of the world of those times.

Paul says remember what we taught you(doctrine).

he didn't' say read my letters and make your own doctrine. (trinity, sola scriptura, etc...)

Doctrine simply means instruction. Unfortunately, we don't have Paul with us; but we do have his instructions in the form of his writings; and we do have the holy spirit to bear witness to the truth and lead us into all truth outlined in his writings.

 

[Quickfire]

Doctrine simply means instruction. Unfortunately, we don't have Paul with us; but we do have his instructions in the form of his writings; and we do have the holy spirit to bear witness to the truth and lead us into all truth outlined in his writings.

doctrine instruction, inside the instruction can be a teaching to, you know that right,,

 

[RedTent]

Doctrine simply means instruction. Unfortunately, we don't have Paul with us; but we do have his instructions in the form of his writings; and we do have the holy spirit to bear witness to the truth and lead us into all truth outlined in his writings.

They say doctrine is a set of beliefs. In Christ's day there were many sets of beliefs: Pharisee, Sadducee, Essene for instance. On the whole, Christ was against using these for guides, Christ often quoted scripture for that.

We need to choose a church to go to that usually has a set of beliefs about scripture, but I think we should each of us search scripture and use what we find the best we can, not what our church says.

I think if we only go to Paul and ignore scripture as an entire unit, if we rely on the Holy Spirit only for what it gives us of law without any reinforcement of written law, we are not going to the entire truth as scripture gives it to us and that we are to follow.

 

[crossnote]

They say doctrine is a set of beliefs. In Christ's day there were many sets of beliefs: Pharisee, Sadducee, Essene for instance. On the whole, Christ was against using these for guides, Christ often quoted scripture for that.

We need to choose a church to go to that usually has a set of beliefs about scripture, but I think we should each of us search scripture and use what we find the best we can, not what our church says.

I think if we only go to Paul and ignore scripture as an entire unit, if we rely on the Holy Spirit only for what it gives us of law without any reinforcement of written law, we are not going to the entire truth as scripture gives it to us and that we are to follow.

True but why always pick on Paul? Why not single out Moses or Solomon or David? After all the book of Romans more than any other reflects the whole bible in a nutshell?

 

[jonathanbchristian]

Blaiming the messenger is what happens to Paul. God gave him things to say that most people do not like. Like Moses said who are we? You really rebel against God not us.

 

[RedTent]

Blaiming the messenger is what happens to Paul. God gave him things to say that most people do not like. Like Moses said who are we? You really rebel against God not us.

Paul was given a message for us that applied particularly to a certain period in our world. God worked with a small group of people for hundreds of years to have them understand and show His principles to the world. When God had Christ live as a man and fulfill much of these teachings, there was a change, and many of the teachings weren't necessary any more and some done away with, like the temple and animal blood and how priests were used. The letters of the NT explain this change.

I think the problem with the modern church, and how they get off track from God's ways, is that they only read of the change without studying just what changed, or what it changed from, so they just wipe out everything of God, quoting how God told them there was a change. So if you only read what God told Paul, you need more. It would be the same thing (only worse) if you only read Moses, for instance, but our churches aren't doing that. Many, however, are only reading Paul.

 

[TannarDarr]

Tannar, God has gifted many with teaching God's Word. What criteria do you or your Church use to determine who's qualified?

Why do you try to redirect the conversation before the first part is settled?

I'd be glad to discuss the scriptural and history of the Church's reasoning for who is qualified. But one thing at a time. Let's handle what is on the table first.

You DO REALIZE, that the more of your objections I answer for you, the more of my answers you ignore and say nothing.

If you are going to evade every answer given, but still claim to be right. I'm not wasting any more pixels on you. I can write you off like I do a jehova witness missionary when I talk with them.

 

[TannarDarr]

Doctrine simply means instruction.

You showed me! Saying it's instruction, as opposed to "teachings" the word I used really put me in my place. :| WHAT PRAYTELL is the difference there?

Unfortunately, we don't have Paul with us; but we do have his instructions in the form of his writings; and we do have the holy spirit to bear witness to the truth and lead us into all truth outlined in his writings.

Paul said there was more than His writings that he passed on to the church, and he commanded the Church to carry it forward. Further, the verse quoted, was addressing specific teachings which we know of, as opposed to people teaching diametrically opposed teachings. You've really taken the conversation from where it was to a new place and just dropped the original point.

Paul said the bigger truths he taught were NOT IN THE WRITINGS!!!!! Too. there is a lot Paul says, that you leave out. Is it because you don't' know of it? Or because you are selective in your quotes?

 

[crossnote]

Why do you try to redirect the conversation before the first part is settled?

I'd be glad to discuss the scriptural and history of the Church's reasoning for who is qualified. But one thing at a time. Let's handle what is on the table first.

You DO REALIZE, that the more of your objections I answer for you, the more of my answers you ignore and say nothing.

If you are going to evade every answer given, but still claim to be right. I'm not wasting any more pixels on you. I can write you off like I do a jehova witness missionary when I talk with them.

Give me your straight question and I will attempt. I haven't deciphered what it was.

 

[TannarDarr]

Give me your straight question and I will attempt. I haven't deciphered what it was.

no.

Answer it before you go forward with another question and topic of conversation.

I gotta tell you, I'm in four different conversations where it goes something like this....


They say, a, b, c, I answer, no, because zxy.

Now in a REAL adult conversation, they would address the ZXY before we move on. We'd stay there til we got somewhere.

But you, and them, just drop it. You presented a reason that was shown to be wrong, (since the objection wasn't even addressed much less answered) and you move on like you have proved a point.

That's rude as hell is hot.

I don't need you to answer me. I don't' care if you answer me. I don't need you. This is a conversation to better myself and share my views with others. You aren't living up to your end of the discussion. Therefore it's appearing to be a waste of time.

You can answer the objections presented so far, and as we go forward, or continue to try to jump from point to point having me answer them all 4 times as you run in circles.

I'm not doing that, and if you were any sort of man, you wouldn't want to do that to someone, you'd be shamed and/or embarrassed.

 

[TannarDarr]

Besides, I've made very short answers so far and you can't cope with them. Your question has about 15 pages coming for the Cliff's Note's version. You and I both know your eyes will gloss over and you'll ignore all of it and just cut at me some more.

 

[RedTent]

PoxEclipse: If you are not living as Christ did, putting the Father first in all things, and you call yourself a "Christian" or claim to be "Saved", you do nothing more than defame those who actually ARE living it, furthermore, you dishonour the Father and Son to those who witness the deeds you do in the name of Christ.
Do you believe that tithing is required to please the Father?

Do you believe that repentance and being "born again", forsaking your old self, and walking as Christ walked is not required to please the Father?

Do you believe "grace" is a license to continue in sin?
Do you believe that television programming, movies, and the majority of music today is acceptable and profitable as part of a "Christian way of life?"

Do you believe that the compilation of scriptures called "The Bible" which was commissioned by Constantine, a vicious Roman emperor, and compiled by the corrupted "church fathers" which became the Church of Rome (Catholic Church), is "the only inspired, infallible word of God?"

What do you think the people who have given themselves to Christ should do in their day to day walk so that we are truly a set apart people who are walking in the Kingdom? You say walk as Christ walked. What were the hallmarks of that walk?

It seems to me that the important points of His walk, as he lived as a man, was in his relationship with people and his day to day discipline. His only judgments of people's behavior had to do with people who did not relate well to others like pretending they were better and judging others like the Pharisees. At the same time Christ judged sin. His everyday life had many of the rituals that our church so distains, and those rituals were always secondary to being kind to others. Sabbath is an illustration, helping others came before rest.

How would you suggest we could live a set apart life for Christ? I hope you won't say that if we just sit and think right, our doing will automatically follow. Or that any doing is only ritualistic. That idea is a very good one except for one important thing----we are human, we have both body and spirit. A human can't do everything in spirit only without any body action. If we could we would be dead and in heaven with our Father.

 

[crossnote]

Tanarr,
I was asking for a question because' my time on the forum is very limited.
I'll take 'no' as the answer and be on my merry way.
My discussion with you has ended.

 

[Quickfire]

i don't agree myself with certion a doctrine that coucil of nicea brought in, but .ill just leave it there and pray it doesn't cause devision, but it will, nowt i can do about it. what can we do about doctrined people doctrined with dividing topics, lol, pray run for cover

 

[TannarDarr]

What do you think the people who have given themselves to Christ should do in their day to day walk so that we are truly a set apart people who are walking in the Kingdom? You say walk as Christ walked. What were the hallmarks of that walk?

Matthew 5:43-38.
Last parable in matt 25.
Gal 5:6,
1 John 4:16-18.
Eph 4:11-17.

 

[TannarDarr]

Tanarr,
I was asking for a question because' my time on the forum is very limited.
I'll take 'no' as the answer and be on my merry way.
My discussion with you has ended.

Your time is not more valuable than my time, especially to me.

You've ignored all I've said long enough. You can make the first step and show some sincerity.

YOU ME

1...................z
2....................y
3.....................x
4......................W
1

That's how our chat looks like. You say one, I object with Z. You ignore it and move on to another point.

You made a statement I answered it, and the question you demand to be answered now is one of about 7 instances you just spit on my part of the chat and basically declared it's beneath you by your actions.

How would you feel, if someone was telling you that you were gay (for example). And you kept showing them and explaining things to show you weren't, but they pretended like it didn't happen, and continued to presume gayness upon you.

You aren't listening, answering, talking WITH me, just at me like you are some divine teacher to put me in my place with the power from GOD invested in you.

I'm not taking it.

Talk with me, or don't talk TO me at all.