Doctrines like Limited Atonement - why?

[ForestGreenCook]

Your addition is never perceived by me as butting in. I welcome your correspondence, and insight. That said however, I respectfully and vehemently disagree with Calvinism.

Thanks, and I also, from what I have heard of him, do not believe he speaks as having a complete knowledge of the word. I have never referred to his writings, nor any other interpretations of man's writings. I believe the KJV scriptures prove themselves when you compare them one to another. They are the only source in my studies.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Interesting to note ....

it should be noted that Thayer was a Unitarian, who denied Biblical Inerrancy,

Apparently he changed his view as well...

Thayer's original 1889, unabridged, Greek-English Lexicon, Greek Definition 2889, Section 8, defines the Greek word "kosmos" as referring to:
8. any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort

Link

I agree, that any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort, such as "the world of beliver's" and "and not the whole world of mankind". is correct.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Replacement theology is not biblical. The Church has not replaced Israel.🤦‍♂️

You ignore the scriptures that I have given you, and make your statement, without any scriptures to uphold it. The reason that you do not see the truth in the scriptures may be because you are basing your statement depending on your own entelect, or what someone else has told you, instead of comparing scripture to scripture.

 

[Lightskin]

Why does God tell us to not love the world, 1 John 2:15, that he says he so loves, John 3:16, unless he is referring to two different worlds?

You know full well we are to love God with all our heart, mind and soul, and our neighbors as ourselves. That is the world whom God loves.

We are not to love the world that pertains to money, idolatry and everything else that redirects our focus away from God.

 

[Dave-L]

You crack me up with your private interpretations.😂

What makes you think they are private? How well versed are you in Church history?

 

[Dave-L]

What does that mean?

Scripture properly understood defines God. If we abuse the text making it say what it does not, we produce an idol to worship.

 

[EleventhHour]

I agree, that any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort, such as "the world of beliver's" and "and not the whole world of mankind". is correct.

Kosmos in Greek here means the world, and I am not going to rely on Thayer alone but on the greater context of all scripture.

 

[EleventhHour]

Scripture properly understood defines God. If we abuse the text making it say what it does not, we produce an idol to worship.

Well that is stretch to state he has redefined God... seriously if any doctrinal camp has redefined God it would be those that teach God only selects some for salvation, bestowing His grace only on a certain few.

That creates a morally ambiguous God.

That would be an idol, since God is not morally ambiguous.

 

[Dave-L]

Well that is stretch to state he has redefined God... seriously if any doctrinal camp has redefined God it would be those that teach God only selects some for salvation, bestowing His grace only on a certain few.

That creates a morally ambiguous God.

That would be an idol since God in not morally ambiguous.

Free Will (Universal Atonement) denies God's grace in salvation and turns him and the gospel into something they are not.

 

[Lightskin]

Scripture properly understood defines God.

God defines Himself through Jesus Christ.

 

[Lightskin]

Free Will (Universal Atonement) denies God's grace in salvation and turns him and the gospel into something they are not.

How do you come up with this stuff?

 

[EleventhHour]

Free Will (Universal Atonement) denies God's grace in salvation and turns him and the gospel into something they are not.

Well as I have told you free will is not a biblical concept, and "universal atonement" meaning that Jesus bore the sins of all humanity in no way denies God's Grace.

Actually, it affirms God's great love for all people and His desire that all would be persuaded to receive His great gift of salvation.
That people can be persuaded in no way diminishes the sovereignty of God which is something apparently people who follow Calvin's ideas cannot seem to grasp.

Inherent in the very concept of sovereignty is the power of the Sovereign to allow, guide, pursue and sometimes compel, and He acts in many different ways because He is all-knowing and we are not.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Kosmos in Greek here means the world, and I am not going to rely on Thayer alone but on the greater context of all scripture.

I am glade to hear that you rely on the context of ALL scriptures. Scripture proves scripture when compared to each other. You claim that "the all that the Father gave to Jesus" (John 6:37) was all mankind, but if you compare that scripture to (John 10:29) we find that His Father gave him only "his sheep" His sheep denotes those who are believers, and have been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.(Eph 2). John 6:37 says All that the Father giveth me SHALL come to me. Did all mankind come to him?

 

[EleventhHour]

I am glade to hear that you rely on the context of ALL scriptures. Scripture proves scripture when compared to each other. You claim that "the all that the Father gave to Jesus" (John 6:37) was all mankind, but if you compare that scripture to (John 10:29) we find that His Father gave him only "his sheep" His sheep denotes those who are believers, and have been born again with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.(Eph 2). John 6:37 says All that the Father giveth me SHALL come to me. Did all mankind come to him?

Yup

Romans 5:18 Then as one man’s trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men.

 

[Dave-L]

Well as I have told you free will is not a biblical concept, and "universal atonement" meaning that Jesus bore the sins of all humanity in no way denies God's Grace.

Actually, it affirms God's great love for all people and His desire that all would be persuaded to receive His great gift of salvation.
That people can be persuaded in no way diminishes the sovereignty of God which is something apparently people who follow Calvin's ideas cannot seem to grasp.

Inherent in the very concept of sovereignty is the power of the Sovereign to allow, guide, pursue and sometimes compel, and He acts in many different ways because He is all-knowing and we are not.

It denies grace because it doesn't save anyone. Grace saves all for whom God paid for on the cross. Providing the self-righteous with a way to save themselves is not grace.

 

[John146]

What makes you think they are private? How well versed are you in Church history?

Church history or bible? Big difference.

 

[Dave-L]

Church history or bible? Big difference.

You have the truth missing from the entire Church for over two millennia?

 

[Dave-L]

How do you come up with this stuff?

You haven't any idea of how this happens. That's why you do it.

 

[John146]

Well as I have told you free will is not a biblical concept, and "universal atonement" meaning that Jesus bore the sins of all humanity in no way denies God's Grace.

Actually, it affirms God's great love for all people and His desire that all would be persuaded to receive His great gift of salvation.
That people can be persuaded in no way diminishes the sovereignty of God which is something apparently people who follow Calvin's ideas cannot seem to grasp.

Inherent in the very concept of sovereignty is the power of the Sovereign to allow, guide, pursue and sometimes compel, and He acts in many different ways because He is all-knowing and we are not.

All means every living man and woman, including kings and all that are in authority. The “all men” in verse 4 would include kings and all that are in authority. Obviously, all kings and all that are in authority are not saved, but it is God’s will that they be saved.

1 Timothy 2
2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

 

[Dave-L]

All means every living man and woman, including kings and all that are in authority. The “all men” in verse 4 would include kings and all that are in authority. Obviously, all kings and all that are in authority are not saved, but it is God’s will that they be saved.

1 Timothy 2
2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

All men = all nations including women, not just Jews any more as in the OT.