Does God Love Sinners?

[lesjude]

As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Ro 9:13: God did not hate Esau and love Jacob while they were still in their mother's womb. He did choose Jacob over Esau as the inheritor of Abraham's blessing before they were born, but Esau could have walked with God and have been blessed by God if he had chosen to do so.

Mal 1:2-3 says, "I loved Jacob, and I hated Esau." This was written in approximately 557-525 B.C., thousands of years after the birth of Esau and Jacob, so this is not speaking of God hating Esau at birth. There is no mention in Scripture that God hated the individual Esau. This reference to Esau was referring to the nation of Edom (Esau's descendants) in the same way that the term Israel often referred to the entire nation of Israel, not the individual (Ge 32:28). God was saying that He had rejected the nation of Edom and had chosen the nation of Israel.

Paul quoted from Malachi, not to show that God hated Esau and loved Jacob while they were still in their mother's womb, but rather to confirm that the choice God made before they were born, based on His foreknowledge (Ro 8:29), was the right choice. Jacob went on to become a mighty man of God, and Esau despised the things of God. God's choice of Jacob didn't cause this to happen. This quotation from Malachi simply confirms that God's foreknowledge was accurate.

Jacob was called to a higher position than his brother, Esau, before they were born, but that does not display any rejection of Esau on God's part. That is comparable to God choosing certain people to be pastors while others are called to be deacons. The deacons are not inferior to the pastors. They are simply called to different positions. Jacob and Esau were called to different positions before they had done any good or evil, to illustrate that election was not based on performance but choice.

I do not know who wrote the perverted piece of nonsense you included but it is a real classic of the genre!
He hated Esau and that hatred continued to all the children of Esau.
[h=3]Hebrews 12:16-17[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]lest there be any fornicator or profane person like Esau, who for one morsel of food sold his birthright. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For you know that afterward, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it diligently with tears.

 

[lesjude]

Does God love sinners?

Yes

Only the elect are loved while they are sinners. Please give scripture for anything else.

 

[lesjude]

dont get lost with those two words the text mentions "gift" twice
do you know what a gift is?
Slamdunk salvation is not a gift!

Read grace and faith in relation to it being a gift not anything that makes for boasting

The ONLY ones that will receive the gift are the elect chosen before time began.

 

[djness]

[h=3]2 Peter 3:9[/h]New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Is the above verse in the bible? Is everyone only the elect one or everyone? Why does God bother to use words like all or everyone when he just means a select few. Why not just say hey I am God and I made all of you but I really only plan on saving a few of you the rest will go to hell were they belong.

Or is that what the bible actually says? Then I guess I wonder why god bothered in creating people for the specific purpose of going to hell, why not just create the predestined into heaven?

But his ways are not your ways and his thought are not your thoughts...so what the heck am I really saying anyway. I will just take my place at the back of the bus and wait to kneel down and be accused of my sin and burn in hell for eternity because God didn't choose me.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Horrible mistranslated? You've been there before...Is there any translator who didn't use "hate" but used "loved less"?

Does it matter?

Did Jesus literaly mean hate here?

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.

Or did he mean "love less than Christ and the father?

If he literally means hate he contradicts himself when he says love your spouse as yourself. How come no one ever used "love less here""

They were all wrong? It takes some reworking of the hebrew to render it like you want to. Does it apply in the context of Mal.1?

lol.. Paul QUOTED MALACHI 1. You can not quote someone and take them out of context. This would be a serious crime,,and Paul would be quoting out of context. meaning paul screwed up prety bad quoting malachi's words.

And what's the problem with the word hate? God is not allowed to hate?This aside, yes, there surely is a difference in relation, which my post made clear. God doesn't have the same relation to the edomites as He has to the israelites. That's the bottom line.

No. Both were sinning nations. Both played with idols. Both in there actions hated God. Yet God chose Isreal. did he make a mistake doing this (the context of romans 9?) No. because he did not chose based on the righteousness of the fathers, as the Jews in Pauls day tried to say..

God doesn't relate to His people and the world the same wise. He didn't do the same thing for all those billions of people who perished in the flood as He did for Noah and His family of eight persons. He didn't do the same thing for Pharao and the egyptians as He did for Moses, Aaron and the israelites. He didn't do the same thing for the amalekites as He did for the israelites. He didn't do the same thing for the goats, dogs and hogs as He did for His sheep.

There is a difference as how to God deals with people that are in His covenant and those whom are outside same.

Yep there is.

Noah believed in God, so God saved him, No one else did, even though noah preached the gospel to them for many years up till the flood.

Moses and his people were chosen By God. Pharoah could have let them go. but no,, he believed he was almighty God, and hardened his heart to the truth. of Course God destroyed them.

we could go on and on.. God is patient with all people up to a point, He was patient with the amorites for 400 years and kept the land from Abraham Isaac and Jacob and whole generations for it.

Look how long he was patient with Isreal? 2000 years of rebellion before he finally spread them throughout the earth, yet he said he still would not forge this covenant with them

 

[lesjude]

2 Peter 3:9

New International Version (NIV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
.
Is the above verse in the bible? Is everyone only the elect one or everyone? Why does God bother to use words like all or everyone when he just means a select few. Why not just say hey I am God and I made all of you but I really only plan on saving a few of you the rest will go to hell were they belong.

Peter is writing to saved Christians not sinners and admonishing them not to think like scoffers. Further He is saying that God is not going to close the age until all the elect from future generations come to salvation including I am sure some of the very families who are the unsaved elect of the people he is writing to.

Or is that what the bible actually says? Then I guess I wonder why god bothered in creating people for the specific purpose of going to hell, why not just create the predestined into heaven?

The sinners serve a very useful purpose in God's plan. The Bible says this:
Romans 9:22-23
New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]22 [/SUP]What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, [SUP]23 [/SUP]and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory,
They bless God's elect with persecution. Matthew 5:10-12.
They lay up wealth for the just.
They all have a role in God's predestined plan made before time started.
They even do good and bless the elect.

But his ways are not your ways and his thought are not your thoughts...so what the heck am I really saying anyway. I will just take my place at the back of the bus and wait to kneel down and be accused of my sin and burn in hell for eternity because God didn't choose me.

The Bible says this:
[h=3]1 Corinthians 2:9-12[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]9 [/SUP]But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”[SUP][a][/SUP]

[SUP]10 [/SUP]But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. [SUP]11 [/SUP]For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.

The operative word is "might". There is a cost to be paid. One of them is a diligent study of God's word. The book of 1 John is full of things that a Christian can know and how he can know them. The elect will heed. The rest will just float along and fulfill the parable of the sower or the virgins that came up short of oil.