Does having sex make you married?
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Yup
Genesis 2: 23-24
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
EDIT: all the more reason why it is prudent to wait until after the wedding ceremony to finish the marriage. Understandably, sometimes people have sex before the wedding ceremony, but way I see it that's okay so long as you stay together and be faithful to eachother. Western Wedding ceremony as we know it didn't even exist until 1800s.
Genesis 2: 23-24
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
EDIT: all the more reason why it is prudent to wait until after the wedding ceremony to finish the marriage. Understandably, sometimes people have sex before the wedding ceremony, but way I see it that's okay so long as you stay together and be faithful to eachother. Western Wedding ceremony as we know it didn't even exist until 1800s.
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iTOREtheSKY
Guest
Ok..I have a question first. Does a piece of paper stating you are married,make you married?
lol ok..srsly though...
When man & woman have intercourse,the two become one flesh,right?
I don't see how that makes one married,although spiritually something happens much deeper that unifies those two people,the physical act is just the outward manifestation or expression of what has happened inwardly. OR...is it the other way around?
I don't have any scripture references for you,but it seems to me,just because 2 people have sex,it hardly qualifies them as being married. There's also adultery. I've heard of spiritual adultery as well as physical. Obviously God desires Sex and marriage go hand & hand,but many of us have had sex long before we were married,so does this mean we are "spiritually" still bound to our first sexual partner?
lol ok..srsly though...
When man & woman have intercourse,the two become one flesh,right?
I don't see how that makes one married,although spiritually something happens much deeper that unifies those two people,the physical act is just the outward manifestation or expression of what has happened inwardly. OR...is it the other way around?
I don't have any scripture references for you,but it seems to me,just because 2 people have sex,it hardly qualifies them as being married. There's also adultery. I've heard of spiritual adultery as well as physical. Obviously God desires Sex and marriage go hand & hand,but many of us have had sex long before we were married,so does this mean we are "spiritually" still bound to our first sexual partner?
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kenthomas27
Guest
[SUP]1Corinthians 6:15 - 17
15[/SUP] Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! [SUP]16[/SUP] Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” [SUP]17[/SUP] But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
Mark 10: 7 - 9
[SUP]7 [/SUP] ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, [SUP]8 [/SUP] and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. [SUP]9 [/SUP] Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
15[/SUP] Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! [SUP]16[/SUP] Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” [SUP]17[/SUP] But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
Mark 10: 7 - 9
[SUP]7 [/SUP] ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, [SUP]8 [/SUP] and the two shall become one flesh’; so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. [SUP]9 [/SUP] Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate.”
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1still_waters
Guest
There seems to be a link between having sex and becoming one.
1 Cor 6 shows this link.
First it discusses having sex with a prostitute, then it references a verse that is directly about a married couple. God must have put the verse about becoming ONE after the reference to sex with a prostitute for a reason.
16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.”[b] 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
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DarlinNadia
Guest
No, if it does, I want $1.00 monthly alimony from ALL my [ ...Edit...]
Wait, Joined together to God??? Hmmmm I do not recall this ever coming up in conversation while a couple shouts here and there... that could clearly be considered taking the Lord's name in vain...
I think [...edit...]
Edit: Additionally, I believe Adam KNEW Eve... took me months to realize Knowing someone means having sex. Do you KNOW me? Did my EX-husband know me?
Wait, Joined together to God??? Hmmmm I do not recall this ever coming up in conversation while a couple shouts here and there... that could clearly be considered taking the Lord's name in vain...
I think [...edit...]
Edit: Additionally, I believe Adam KNEW Eve... took me months to realize Knowing someone means having sex. Do you KNOW me? Did my EX-husband know me?
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I could be wrong about this but while yes, I certainly believe God designed a "oneness" that happens during/because of sex, I don't believe that sex automatically means marriage--for example, cases of sexual abuse in which a father or even step-father victimizes his daughter.
Should they marry? Of course not. Should 14-year-olds who have sex be required to marry each other? Should people who have a baby between them automatically be required to marry? (This happened a lot at my childhood church--teens would get pregnant; the church required them to marry; most often, it would end in divorce.) I personally don't feel a child means there is an automatic requirement to marry, and I could be wrong, but I don't know of any passage that would say they absolutely have to get married.
When Gomer was unfaithful to Hosea (and it's even speculated that at least one of their children did not belong to Hosea), she was not required to marry her lovers, even though she obviously had sex with them. Rather, she was to go back and be faithful to the one she was actually officially married to.
Should they marry? Of course not. Should 14-year-olds who have sex be required to marry each other? Should people who have a baby between them automatically be required to marry? (This happened a lot at my childhood church--teens would get pregnant; the church required them to marry; most often, it would end in divorce.) I personally don't feel a child means there is an automatic requirement to marry, and I could be wrong, but I don't know of any passage that would say they absolutely have to get married.
When Gomer was unfaithful to Hosea (and it's even speculated that at least one of their children did not belong to Hosea), she was not required to marry her lovers, even though she obviously had sex with them. Rather, she was to go back and be faithful to the one she was actually officially married to.
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Ugly
Guest
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DarlinNadia
Guest
Oh wait this is OLD Testament? I think there was a ceremony when Leah's father swapped her out for Rachel.. but I think Jacob was drunk actually...
Aye indeed. Laban tricked Jacob into marrying Leah.
Heh I could make NT references that support the view that sex is marriage, but it seems I was beat to the punch on all the good ones.
Here's another one to consider though:
John 4:16-19
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
So how could the Samaritan woman have had 5 husbands yet not have a husband? Simple answer, she slept with 5 different guys.
i don't think that the simple act of sex is equivalent to a marriage ceremony for a few reasons:
1 ) as catherder stated, the bible includes numerous references to fornication (and adultery). if sex equaled a "marriage ceremony", then there would be no such thing as fornication. only adultery.
2) the woman at the well:
for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly - john 4:18
so why isn't this current man (also) her husband if sex equaled marriage?
3) in the OT, we know that both tamar and judah, also david and bathsheba had unmarried sex, the former couple was never considered "married" while the second later married, which infers that sex alone does not a marriage make.
i don't dispute that sex creates a spirtual or soul connection (i.e. being joined as one flesh) but i don't see that as equal to marriage.
1 ) as catherder stated, the bible includes numerous references to fornication (and adultery). if sex equaled a "marriage ceremony", then there would be no such thing as fornication. only adultery.
2) the woman at the well:
for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly - john 4:18
so why isn't this current man (also) her husband if sex equaled marriage?
3) in the OT, we know that both tamar and judah, also david and bathsheba had unmarried sex, the former couple was never considered "married" while the second later married, which infers that sex alone does not a marriage make.
i don't dispute that sex creates a spirtual or soul connection (i.e. being joined as one flesh) but i don't see that as equal to marriage.
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kenthomas27
Guest
I see your point, but wouldn't your question be like the Divine Comedy? The Human Tragedy is that which separates man from God and the bible speaks of both those qualities. What I'm thinking of though is like a "Heavenly Marriage" - something that God puts together. This isn't to say that man won't foul it up through any and all of the variety of ways we can, either by exercising sex without love or Godly guidance or with selfishness or by ungodly force. This wasn't a question posed of what man would do, but rather what God put together. Or am I all wrong?
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DarlinNadia
Guest
only 5? Not a very good prostitute... I always thought that she was sleeping with the HUSBANDS of other women. Because he also says... to quote yourst biblest
and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband.... guess it's perception and interpretation.
The Bible also records incidences of rape, such as Amnon and Tamar (2 Sam 13), who were both children of David with different mothers. Amnon became obsessed with Tamar, and getting her alone, was able to have his way, though she tried to persuade him to go about things the right way and speak to David so that they could marry first. (It does not indicate that she loved him, but rather, in the circumstance of the attack, was trying to reason with him.) He did not listen, went his own way, and she had to live the rest of her life as a disgraced, "unmarryable" woman.
Shechem, a prince, fixated on Dinah, the daughter of Jacob (Gen. 34:1) and "took her by force" (though in some of my classes they claim Dinah was willing.) His family was able to strike a deal with Jacob's family in order for them to marry, but her brothers wound up killing all their males as revenge for "violating their sister".
Does God require marriage between someone who rapes his victim (or even nowadays with all the cases of older women have relations with underage boys and being charged with statutory rape)?
I would like to say no, but I know of no passages that state what must happen in either direction (feel free to correct me if you know the passages that require marriage in the circumstance of rape.)
Shechem, a prince, fixated on Dinah, the daughter of Jacob (Gen. 34:1) and "took her by force" (though in some of my classes they claim Dinah was willing.) His family was able to strike a deal with Jacob's family in order for them to marry, but her brothers wound up killing all their males as revenge for "violating their sister".
Does God require marriage between someone who rapes his victim (or even nowadays with all the cases of older women have relations with underage boys and being charged with statutory rape)?
I would like to say no, but I know of no passages that state what must happen in either direction (feel free to correct me if you know the passages that require marriage in the circumstance of rape.)
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Okay Western concept of marriage I think is what confuses some. Basically in the olden days marriage consists of two basic principles:
1. Man and Woman leaving their parent's care
2. Them having sex and thus beginning a family
Fornication is any unclean sexual act. Sex with an animal is fornication, masturbating is fornication, adultery is fornication.
The 5th husband of the Woman at the Well is not technically her hhusband because technically she is an adulteress against her first husband.
Tamar and Judah did marry. Even Judah laments that Tamar was more righteous than he was because he should have given her to his son in marriage instead of delaying. Notice also Judah put away Tamar and slept with her no more and as far as we know this is the last time Judah have sex in the Bible.
As for David and Bathsheba, them having sex was probably one of David's biggest offenses to the Lord. Especially when you consider that it was adultery due to Bathsheba being married to Uriah the Hittite whom was such a loyal follower of David he even refused to enjoy his time off on leave from the battlefield. Surely it is written how David is cursed by the Lord for what he did.
1. Man and Woman leaving their parent's care
2. Them having sex and thus beginning a family
Fornication is any unclean sexual act. Sex with an animal is fornication, masturbating is fornication, adultery is fornication.
The 5th husband of the Woman at the Well is not technically her hhusband because technically she is an adulteress against her first husband.
Tamar and Judah did marry. Even Judah laments that Tamar was more righteous than he was because he should have given her to his son in marriage instead of delaying. Notice also Judah put away Tamar and slept with her no more and as far as we know this is the last time Judah have sex in the Bible.
As for David and Bathsheba, them having sex was probably one of David's biggest offenses to the Lord. Especially when you consider that it was adultery due to Bathsheba being married to Uriah the Hittite whom was such a loyal follower of David he even refused to enjoy his time off on leave from the battlefield. Surely it is written how David is cursed by the Lord for what he did.
this notion isn't clearly spelled out by the scripture or there wouldn't be much discussion to be had. so i'm not trying to "argue" the case; i take that view, if for nothing else but pragmatism - and i say with sadness, not boasting, that i don't take that view without experience. anyway here's some scripture to consider:
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
(Genesis 2:24)
And Jesus said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. But from the beginning of creation,
And in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter. And he said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her, and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”
(Mark 10:5-11)
Jesus didn't accept a divorce certificate, and describing marriage quoted scripture that refers to physical union.
If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife.
If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride-price for virgins.
(Exodus 22:16-17)
the law given to Moses required a man who slept with a girl (that wasn't an harlot) to either legitimately make her his wife by way of the law or repay her family the same amount he would have for lawful marriage.
Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband : For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.
(John 4:16-18)
this passage is somewhat open to interpretation. the word Christ used that's translated "husband" can also be used to refer to any man. following Christ's teaching on marriage that i quoted above, whether she had legally married 5 men in the past or simply slept around, she was properly an adulteress, not a wife. the man she was with at the time wouldn't have been considered her husband; both she and he were adulterers. Jesus knew this woman long before they talked - just like He saw Nathanael before Phillip called him ( John 1:48). He wasn't trying to cleverly trap her by telling her to get her husband, but as He did with everyone, was opening her eyes to spiritual truth. by asking her to get her husband, he was calling her to turn from her sin.
there's something interesting about the Greek here that i'm not qualified to really talk about - but when He first told her to fetch her husband, the Greek reads "thy τό ἀνήρ" but every other time in the passage what is translated "husband" is simply "ἀνήρ." the word "τό" is a word that signifies a particular one - roughly like in English we would say the fish or that book, instead of a fish or book. So what Jesus is saying to her - i think, but i've never properly been taught or studied Greek - is yes, you're right, you have no "THE HUBBY" in fact you've had 5 'random' husbands. the text doesn't tell us for sure that she's had 5 marriage certificates - which as far as i know (and i'm not an historian either, so maybe i'm wrong) isn't consistent with the culture of the time - but if she hadn't had 5 actual legal marriages, why did Jesus refer to 5 husbands? again, the word used in Greek could just mean "5 men" but the context of the conversation indicates this was the meaning.
that's not a proof text for the idea that sex = marriage, but i wanted to take the time to explain how it is consistent with it.
i think the strongest argument for this idea is made from the verse in Genesis. what difference is there between a married couple and a couple sleeping together other than a slip of paper issued by a worldly government? no one gave Adam & Eve a marriage certificate - & no one had to.
Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.
(Genesis 2:24)
And Jesus said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart he wrote you this commandment. But from the beginning of creation,
‘God made them male and female.’
‘Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.’
So they are no longer two but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate.”
And in the house the disciples asked him again about this matter. And he said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her, and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”
(Mark 10:5-11)
Jesus didn't accept a divorce certificate, and describing marriage quoted scripture that refers to physical union.
If a man seduces a virgin who is not betrothed and lies with her, he shall give the bride-price for her and make her his wife.
If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money equal to the bride-price for virgins.
(Exodus 22:16-17)
the law given to Moses required a man who slept with a girl (that wasn't an harlot) to either legitimately make her his wife by way of the law or repay her family the same amount he would have for lawful marriage.
Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband : For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.
(John 4:16-18)
this passage is somewhat open to interpretation. the word Christ used that's translated "husband" can also be used to refer to any man. following Christ's teaching on marriage that i quoted above, whether she had legally married 5 men in the past or simply slept around, she was properly an adulteress, not a wife. the man she was with at the time wouldn't have been considered her husband; both she and he were adulterers. Jesus knew this woman long before they talked - just like He saw Nathanael before Phillip called him ( John 1:48). He wasn't trying to cleverly trap her by telling her to get her husband, but as He did with everyone, was opening her eyes to spiritual truth. by asking her to get her husband, he was calling her to turn from her sin.
there's something interesting about the Greek here that i'm not qualified to really talk about - but when He first told her to fetch her husband, the Greek reads "thy τό ἀνήρ" but every other time in the passage what is translated "husband" is simply "ἀνήρ." the word "τό" is a word that signifies a particular one - roughly like in English we would say the fish or that book, instead of a fish or book. So what Jesus is saying to her - i think, but i've never properly been taught or studied Greek - is yes, you're right, you have no "THE HUBBY" in fact you've had 5 'random' husbands. the text doesn't tell us for sure that she's had 5 marriage certificates - which as far as i know (and i'm not an historian either, so maybe i'm wrong) isn't consistent with the culture of the time - but if she hadn't had 5 actual legal marriages, why did Jesus refer to 5 husbands? again, the word used in Greek could just mean "5 men" but the context of the conversation indicates this was the meaning.
that's not a proof text for the idea that sex = marriage, but i wanted to take the time to explain how it is consistent with it.
i think the strongest argument for this idea is made from the verse in Genesis. what difference is there between a married couple and a couple sleeping together other than a slip of paper issued by a worldly government? no one gave Adam & Eve a marriage certificate - & no one had to.
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DarlinNadia
Guest
That's a great question.
The actual word "marriage" first appears in Genesis 34 with Dinah. Dinah was considered defiled until an agreement had been made between the families and they were allowed to marry.
The very first use of the term wife is in Genesis 2:24 & 25. It is described as the act of a man clinging (through what the new testament calls natural affection; Romans 1 and 2 Timothy 3) to his "wife" and the two becoming one flesh as a result.
I think that Matthew 19:5-6 says it more clearly than anywhere else when Jesus said...
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Note that in this passage, Jesus says that God put them together. God created man to have this affection. He then says to let no one divide them.
Understand that there are forms of sexual interaction that are considered vile and defiling. The scripture discusses these cases as well. When you look at everything written though, it appears to be a consent between a man and woman to become one flesh through natural affection that occurs between them.
Now, think about how differently young people today might behave if they understood the true implications of having sex with someone else.
Lastly, 1 Corinthians 6 exemplifies this once again...
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
The actual word "marriage" first appears in Genesis 34 with Dinah. Dinah was considered defiled until an agreement had been made between the families and they were allowed to marry.
The very first use of the term wife is in Genesis 2:24 & 25. It is described as the act of a man clinging (through what the new testament calls natural affection; Romans 1 and 2 Timothy 3) to his "wife" and the two becoming one flesh as a result.
I think that Matthew 19:5-6 says it more clearly than anywhere else when Jesus said...
5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Note that in this passage, Jesus says that God put them together. God created man to have this affection. He then says to let no one divide them.
Understand that there are forms of sexual interaction that are considered vile and defiling. The scripture discusses these cases as well. When you look at everything written though, it appears to be a consent between a man and woman to become one flesh through natural affection that occurs between them.
Now, think about how differently young people today might behave if they understood the true implications of having sex with someone else.
Lastly, 1 Corinthians 6 exemplifies this once again...
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
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DarlinNadia
Guest
Markum1972;1490920\[COLOR=#000000 said:
This begs the question if a harlot repents, is she still defiled? a divorced woman, same thing... if she's given a certificate of divorce, is she still defiled?
The BIGGEST Question I have is: If someone is not part of the Body of Christ... does this rule apply still? Can't hold non-believers to these rules and laws can we?
I expect more of the Body of Christ, non-believers aren't under the spirit or the law I thought.