Does Hebrews 10 say if we willfully sin after being saved there is no more forgiveness?

[mailmandan]

Well, I believe what the verses say and find your reason for denying them to be illogical.
If God were going to remove faith/MFW at the end of the salvation process and history,
He would have done so from the beginning, saving everyone and eliminating misery.

Suit yourself.

 

[dkontner]

1 Corinthians 1​

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:
23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;
24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

 

[GWH]

"Plane meaning" is overrated. When people talk about the plain meaning of a text, they usually mean the "familiar" meaning of a text. The only thing that matters is whether it is the correct meaning or not.

Correct. Too bad the wrong meaning is freely chosen by tulipists.
I urge them not to blaspheme the omnilove of God's HS (Heb. 6:4-6, 10:19-39)
and not to blame God for sinners suffering in hell (Rom. 2:5-16).

 

[GWH]

Suit yourself.

My self suits believing the truth/GW, which your reply does not refute.
If faith was sufficient as satisfying God's condition for your conversion,
why are you afraid it is insufficient for your sanctification?

Consider this insight prompted by discussion with tulipists on CC:
There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and
faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 1Cor. 15:10, 2Cor. 5:7, Rom. 1:17),
but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains
non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.

 

[mailmandan]

2Thes. 1:4-5, “Therefore, among God’s churches we boast about your perseverance and faith in all the persecutions and trials you are enduring. All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering.”

Paul here encourages God's churches by boasting about their unwavering faith amidst persecutions and trials. He explains that enduring these hardships is proof that they possess a steadfast, genuine faith, marking them worthy to inherit God's kingdom.

2Tim. 2:12, “If we endure, we will also reign with him. If we disown him, he will also disown us;”

I see a contrast with, "if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. If we endure, we shall also reign with Him -- AND -- If we deny Him, He also will deny us. If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

"By contrast, the latter "deny Him and faithless" points to the opposite of died with Him, endure and reign with Him. Jesus Himself warned of the danger of denying Him in Matthew 10:33 - "But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.." To "deny him" here does not point merely to a temporary weakness of faith, as in the case of Peter who denied Jesus three times during a moment of weakness (Luke 22:54-62) but is referring to life in its entirety. The inevitable result is that "He will also deny us."

The warning is repeated in the final sentence, "if we are faithless, he abideth faithful." To be "faithless" is in the present tense and denotes this as continuous and not a temporary lapse of faith. But in contrast to human faithlessness, "He remains faithful," faithful to His word and righteous character and His warning that unbelievers will be rejected.

Heb. 3:6&14, “But Christ is faithful as a son over God’s house. And we are his house, if we hold on to our courage and the hope of which we boast… We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”

In Hebrews 3:8-10, we read - do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness, where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, and saw My works forty years. Therefore, I was angry with that generation, and said, 'They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways.' Not descriptive of genuine believers. There is no loss of salvation here. Only a failure to receive it.

Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So, we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. That explains the hardened heart. It took them in the opposite direction of God. Considered the truth for a time, then hardened heart and departing from God became their final answer.

*Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people (the Israelites) out of Egypt but later destroyed those who did not believe. NOT later destroyed those who stopped believing but DID NOT BELIEVE.

Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, in which we read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

The wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been and now are a partaker of Christ" (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast the beginning of your confidence steadfast to the end." Holding fast is proof of genuine conversion. Conditional confirmation.

The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in Christ and the only ones in the end who will be identified as those who have become partakers of Christ will have been those who held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Now what about those faltering Hebrews who depart from God, yet begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty? But then later? They will be identified as not having become partakers in Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

My self suits believing the truth/GW, which your reply does not refute.
If faith was sufficient for your conversion, why are you afraid it is insufficient for your sanctification?
Consider this insight prompted by discussion with tulipists on CC:
There is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and
faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living (Eph. 2:8-10, 1Cor. 15:10, 2Cor. 5:7, Rom. 1:17),
but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains
non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.

When did I say faith was insufficient for sanctification? Do you confuse justification with sanctification and faith with good works?

 

[mailmandan]

Heb. 6:4-6, “It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.” This passage indicates that apostasy may be viewed as total depravity or blasphemy against the HS (MT 12:31).

In regard to Hebrews 6:4-6, once enlightened, which means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus, the "true Light," giving light "to every man," but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. The light either leads to acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject the light.

In regard to partakers of the Holy Spirit, the word translated “partaker” can certainly refer to a saving partaking in Christ, as we read in Hebrews 3:14, yet it can also refer to a less than saving association or participation. See Luke 5:7 and Hebrews 1:9 - "comrades, companions," which describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an undertaking. These Hebrews who fell away had obviously in some aspect shared in the ministry of the Holy Spirit, but in what way? There are other ministries of the Holy Spirit which precede receiving the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit, which only genuine believers receive.

Those who fall away absolutely could have been affiliated closely with the fellowship of the church. Such people certainly may have experienced sorrow for sin, heard and understood the gospel and have given some assent to it and have become associated with the work of the Holy Spirit while around believers and have tasted the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come. They may have been exposed to the true preaching of the word of God yet have simply tasted and stopped there. People who have experienced these things may be genuine Christians, yet this alone is not enough to give conclusive evidence that the beginning stages of conversion (repentance unto life, regeneration, salvation, justification, etc..) have taken place for those who fell away.

The experiences in Hebrews 6:4-6 are all preliminary to those decisive beginning stages of becoming a Christian, yet those who draw back to perdition after receiving the 'knowledge' of the truth do not believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:39)

These certain individuals who fall short of obtaining salvation certainly may have become partakers of the Holy Spirit in his pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment to come by tasting the good word of God and temporarily responding to His drawing power which is intended to ultimately lead sinners to Christ, yet the writer of Hebrews does not use conclusive terms that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit." Genuine believers who have believed the gospel are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)

In regard to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." We do not merely taste, but drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13)

In regard to renew them again unto repentance, this does not specify whether the repentance was merely outward or genuine accompanied by saving faith. They have in some sense "repented," there may be sorrow for sins and an attempt to turn from them (moral self-reformation) that non-believers can experience. There is repentance that falls short of salvation, which is clear from Hebrews 12:7 and the reference to Esau, as well as the repentance of Judas Iscariot in Matthew 27:3. Paul refers to a repentance “without regret that leads to salvation,” which shows there is a repentance that does not lead to salvation. As with “belief/faith”, so too with “repentance,” we must always distinguish between what is substantial and results in salvation and what is spurious. Renew them again "unto salvation" would be conclusive evidence for the argument of a loss of salvation.

In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this metaphor relating to agriculture, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit but rather bears thorns and thistles. We see in scripture where good fruit is the evidence of spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of false believers (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35) so we have an indication that the trustworthy evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that those who fell away in Hebrews 6 were not genuine believers.

*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation and are not fruits worthy of authentic repentance.

It's generally stated by those who believe that salvation can be lost that it can be regained again, yet that would not be the case here if the writer of Hebrews was teaching a loss of salvation. I have heard certain individuals state they know someone who was truly saved, but later lost their salvation, yet only God truly knows the heart of individuals. Certain people "on the surface" may do a good job of looking like the real deal for a while (like Judas Iscariot, who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) yet to the other 11 disciples, he looked like the real deal, but Jesus knew his heart. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not always easy telling them apart.

 

[GWH]

Paul here encourages God's churches by boasting about their unwavering faith amidst persecutions and trials. He explains that enduring these hardships is proof that they possess a steadfast, genuine faith, marking them worthy to inherit God's kingdom.

I see a contrast with, "if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. If we endure, we shall also reign with Him -- AND -- If we deny Him, He also will deny us. If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

"By contrast, the latter "deny Him and faithless" points to the opposite of died with Him, endure and reign with Him. Jesus Himself warned of the danger of denying Him in Matthew 10:33 - "But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.." To "deny him" here does not point merely to a temporary weakness of faith, as in the case of Peter who denied Jesus three times during a moment of weakness (Luke 22:54-62) but is referring to life in its entirety. The inevitable result is that "He will also deny us."

The warning is repeated in the final sentence, "if we are faithless, he abideth faithful." To be "faithless" is in the present tense and denotes this as continuous and not a temporary lapse of faith. But in contrast to human faithlessness, "He remains faithful," faithful to His word and righteous character and His warning that unbelievers will be rejected.

In Hebrews 3:8-10, we read - do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness, where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, and saw My works forty years. Therefore, I was angry with that generation, and said, 'They always go astray in their heart, and they have not known My ways.' Not descriptive of genuine believers. There is no loss of salvation here. Only a failure to receive it.

Verses 18-19 - And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey? So, we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief. That explains the hardened heart. It took them in the opposite direction of God. Considered the truth for a time, then hardened heart and departing from God became their final answer.

*Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people (the Israelites) out of Egypt but later destroyed those who did not believe. NOT later destroyed those who stopped believing but DID NOT BELIEVE.

Hebrews 3:14 - For we have become partakers of Christ, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end. Notice that this is essentially a repeat of verse 6, in which we read: but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house - whose house we are, (demonstrative evidence) if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

The wording is not - "and you will become partakers of Christ (future indicative) if you (future indicative) hold fast." It is rather - "you have been and now are a partaker of Christ" (demonstrative evidence) if in the future you hold fast the beginning of your confidence steadfast to the end." Holding fast is proof of genuine conversion. Conditional confirmation.

The point is that not all of these Hebrews have become partakers in Christ and the only ones in the end who will be identified as those who have become partakers of Christ will have been those who held fast the beginning of their confidence steadfast to the end. Now what about those faltering Hebrews who depart from God, yet begin with loud confidence and profession of loyalty? But then later? They will be identified as not having become partakers in Christ.

You can bend the meaning of Scripture to suit your OSAS pretzel mold,
but I advise amending your understanding to fit the plain point as I did:
believers are urged to persevere because apostasy (repudiating saving faith) is possible.

 

[GWH]

When did I say faith was insufficient for sanctification? Do you confuse justification with sanctification and faith with good works?

You implied such fear when you said "I believed in NOSAS, had no assurance of salvation and was absolutely miserable!"

Again, there is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and
faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living/being sanctified (Eph. 2:8-10, 1Cor. 15:10, 2Cor. 5:7, Rom. 1:17),
but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains
non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.

 

[GWH]

In regard to Hebrews 6:4-6, once enlightened, which means to bring to light, to shed light upon or to cause light to shine upon some object, in the sense of illuminating it. John 1:9 describes Jesus, the "true Light," giving light "to every man," but this cannot mean the light of salvation, because not every man is saved. The light either leads to acceptance of Jesus Christ or produces condemnation in those who reject the light.

In regard to partakers of the Holy Spirit, the word translated “partaker” can certainly refer to a saving partaking in Christ, as we read in Hebrews 3:14, yet it can also refer to a less than saving association or participation. See Luke 5:7 and Hebrews 1:9 - "comrades, companions," which describes one who shares with someone else as an associate in an undertaking. These Hebrews who fell away had obviously in some aspect shared in the ministry of the Holy Spirit, but in what way? There are other ministries of the Holy Spirit which precede receiving the indwelling and sealing of the Holy Spirit, which only genuine believers receive.

Those who fall away absolutely could have been affiliated closely with the fellowship of the church. Such people certainly may have experienced sorrow for sin, heard and understood the gospel and have given some assent to it and have become associated with the work of the Holy Spirit while around believers and have tasted the heavenly gift and the powers of the age to come. They may have been exposed to the true preaching of the word of God yet have simply tasted and stopped there. People who have experienced these things may be genuine Christians, yet this alone is not enough to give conclusive evidence that the beginning stages of conversion (repentance unto life, regeneration, salvation, justification, etc..) have taken place for those who fell away.

The experiences in Hebrews 6:4-6 are all preliminary to those decisive beginning stages of becoming a Christian, yet those who draw back to perdition after receiving the 'knowledge' of the truth do not believe to the saving of the soul. (Hebrews 10:39)

These certain individuals who fall short of obtaining salvation certainly may have become partakers of the Holy Spirit in his pre-salvation ministry, convicting of sin and righteousness and judgment to come by tasting the good word of God and temporarily responding to His drawing power which is intended to ultimately lead sinners to Christ, yet the writer of Hebrews does not use conclusive terms that these individuals were "indwelled by the Holy Spirit" or "sealed by the Holy Spirit." Genuine believers who have believed the gospel are sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession/unto the day of redemption. (Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30)

In regard to tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, they may have tasted in such a way as to give them a distinct impression of what was tasted, yet they still fell away. Inherent in the idea of tasting is the fact that one might or might not decide to accept what is tasted. For example, the same Greek word (geuomai) is used in Matthew 27:34 to say that those crucifying Jesus "offered him wine to drink, mingled with gall; but when he tasted it, he would not drink it." We do not merely taste, but drink into one Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:13)

In regard to renew them again unto repentance, this does not specify whether the repentance was merely outward or genuine accompanied by saving faith. They have in some sense "repented," there may be sorrow for sins and an attempt to turn from them (moral self-reformation) that non-believers can experience. There is repentance that falls short of salvation, which is clear from Hebrews 12:7 and the reference to Esau, as well as the repentance of Judas Iscariot in Matthew 27:3. Paul refers to a repentance “without regret that leads to salvation,” which shows there is a repentance that does not lead to salvation. As with “belief/faith”, so too with “repentance,” we must always distinguish between what is substantial and results in salvation and what is spurious. Renew them again "unto salvation" would be conclusive evidence for the argument of a loss of salvation.

In Hebrews 6:7-8, we read - For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; but if it bears thorns and briars, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned. In this metaphor relating to agriculture, those who receive final judgment are compared to land that bears no vegetation or useful fruit but rather bears thorns and thistles. We see in scripture where good fruit is the evidence of spiritual life and a lack of good fruit is a sign of false believers (Matthew 3:8-10; 7:15-20; 12:33-35) so we have an indication that the trustworthy evidence of one's spiritual condition is the fruit they bear (whether good or bad), suggesting that those who fell away in Hebrews 6 were not genuine believers.

*Verse 9 sums it up for me. The writer is speaking to those truly saved (refers to them as BELOVED). He says that even though he speaks like this concerning THOSE types of people, He is convinced of better things concerning YOU. Things that ACCOMPANY SALVATION. Thorns and briars and falling away permanently do not accompany salvation and are not fruits worthy of authentic repentance.

It's generally stated by those who believe that salvation can be lost that it can be regained again, yet that would not be the case here if the writer of Hebrews was teaching a loss of salvation. I have heard certain individuals state they know someone who was truly saved, but later lost their salvation, yet only God truly knows the heart of individuals. Certain people "on the surface" may do a good job of looking like the real deal for a while (like Judas Iscariot, who was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus - John 6:64-71; 13:10-11) yet to the other 11 disciples, he looked like the real deal, but Jesus knew his heart. There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not always easy telling them apart.

Again, you can bend the meaning of Scripture to suit your OSAS pretzel mold,
but I advise amending your understanding to fit the plain point as I did:
believers are urged to persevere because apostasy (repudiating saving faith) is possible.

 

[Mem]

I see a contrast with, "if we died with Him, we shall also live with Him. If we endure, we shall also reign with Him -- AND -- If we deny Him, He also will deny us. If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

This is a perfect example of "rightly dividing the word of God."

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers and it's not always easy telling them apart.

Do you see no hope at all for these pretenders in light of the disputed interpretation of the declaration "it is impossible for those who have tasted...to renew them again...since they crucify Christ again subjecting Him to open shame (Heb 6:4-6)." That is, is there yet opportunity for them to eat his body and drink his blood in sincerity even after they've hid the proverbial pill under their tongue and later spit it out?

 

[dkontner]

I'm not 100% sure, but I take the following scripture to mean we don't know until the end. I was water baptized in 1970 and the Lord saved me in 2015. Scary stuff.

1 Corinthians 4​

5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

 

[Drich]

Key word is "deliberate".

True Christians aren't deliberate about sinning. They struggle with it and sometimes it wins but more often than not, they are submitted to the Holy Spirit so they don't sin deliberately or carelessly.

Hebrews 10 talk about people who are deliberate about sinning, not real Christians.

Isn't Paul describing deliberate sin in romans 7: 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.

 

[mailmandan]

You can bend the meaning of Scripture to suit your OSAS pretzel mold,
but I advise amending your understanding to fit the plain point as I did:
believers are urged to persevere because apostasy (repudiating saving faith) is possible.

I don't bend; I read scripture in context and properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

If repudiating saving faith is possible then these verses below would be a lie. God forbid!

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. *How long is forever?

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

John 6:38 - For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.

John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11)

John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”

John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover, whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress its certainty.

2 Corinthians 1:21 - Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

 

[Drich]

In the context of Hebrews, Paul isn't addressing sin as a general subject. He is addressing a specific sin: rejecting the idea that Jesus is the Christ, the coming one.

I would disagree as the context of heb 10 is directly speaking about sin in general:

26If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

 

[dkontner]

I don't bend; I read scripture in context and properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture before reaching my conclusion on doctrine.

If repudiating saving faith is possible then these verses below would be a lie. God forbid!

Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice and does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off. *How long is forever?

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:

John 6:38 - For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.

John 17:12 - While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.

John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, "Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none." Jesus did not lose Judas. Judas was already lost. (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11)

John 18:9 - that the saying might be fulfilled which He spoke, “Of those whom You gave Me I have lost none.”

John 10:27 - My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

Romans 8:30 - Moreover, whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress its certainty.

2 Corinthians 1:21 - Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God, 22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

2 Corinthians 5:5 - Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.

Ephesians 1:13 - In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Ephesians 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

And my favorite... I remember obtaining distinctly.

2 Thessalonians 2​

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[mailmandan]

You implied such fear when you said "I believed in NOSAS, had no assurance of salvation and was absolutely miserable!"

That's because I was trusting in works for salvation at that time and not in Jesus Christ alone. That is where fear and bondage to insecurity came in. I had no assurance of salvation until my conversion, when I finally stopped trusting in a works based false gospel for salvation and came to believe in the name of the Son of God. (1 John 5:11-13) Praise God!

Again, there is no qualitative difference between faith that accepts God’s saving grace at conversion and
faith that accepts God’s working grace while walking/living/being sanctified (Eph. 2:8-10, 1Cor. 15:10, 2Cor. 5:7, Rom. 1:17),
but only a quantitative difference as each additional moment passes–and of course faith remains
non-meritorious during the saint’s entire lifetime.

Of course, faith remains non-meritorious and through faith, we are trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation, and He receives all the merit.
From beginning 'have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works.

 

[Drich]

The person Paul describes in the latter part of Romans 7 is not a Christian. He describes himself as,' I am carnal, sold under sin'. v14. These words do not describe a Chistian (see Rom 6) but rather an unsaved Saul trying to find justification through the Law, who finally finds it in Christ v25.

Paul is describing himself. Rather the physical side of himself from the Spiritual side.. As in this passage he is separating himself Soul/Spirit from Mind body. This is Paul's version of what it is to be born again. This separation from the mind/Body makes the soul/Spirit a separate person. He is saying we are soul Spirit who does not want sin, but because the mind/Body belong to sin and satan it will sin no matter what the Soul and Spirit want.

 

[Drich]

With all due respect I disagree. The people addressed in Hebrews were not 'almost' Christians but Christians that were contemplating a return to Judaism due to persecution. There are several warning passages given to them of the consequences of such a move ie apostasy.
To 'receive a knowledge of the truth' is indeed to be converted/regenerated. I fear you, like many, are looking at this passage through OSAS lens. That is eisegesis not exegesis.

how am I looking through the lens of the OSAS eisegesis?

 

[Drich]

Which audience was the letter to the Hebrews witten?

was it the gentiles?