Does I Corinthians 13 teach certain gifts ceased with the closing of the canon?

[Dino246]

Another proof of cessation.

The gifts were distributed to members according to the will of God. Today's 'distribution' is kind of skewed. Most members are given the easy ones like tongues and non is given the ability to interpret those tongues. If you do a survey even in this forum; amongst the continuationists, all of them speak in tongues and not a single one interprets. This is hardly a distribution, it is a mockery.

Of all the gifts which ones do you possess?

None? You'll need to prove that assertion, and you can't.

 

[garee]

And what is grace? Is it only for certain people or all men (mankind)

Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

There's no connection between grace and gifts.

Grace is the result of God having mercy according to his three day "labor of love" or called a "work of His faith" .

His grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness as he works in us to both will and do his good pleasure. We should do so without murmuring. This seeing he is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul desires . After all it is him in us as Emanuel (God with us) Who as a labor of His love does perform that which he appoints to us. He makes our hearts soft if we mix faith in what we hear or see. Our rest from our own works .

 

[Noose]

The grace unto salvation is offered to all people. That doesn't mean that every kind of grace is given to every person. Paul makes clear in 1 Corinthians that not every gift is given to every individual.

1. The grace of God- there are no kinds when it comes to grace of God
2. Grace is not an offer to man, it brings salvation to man

 

[Noose]

None? You'll need to prove that assertion, and you can't.

It is a fact, not an assertion. Do the count right here. Everyone will speak things they don't understand because it is easier and non will interpret. hardly a distribution- even a mere human being can not have such a distribution.

 

[Dino246]

It is a fact, not an assertion. Do the count right here. Everyone will speak things they don't understand because it is easier and non will interpret. hardly a distribution- even a mere human being can not have such a distribution.

The "count right here" is a miniscule segment of Christianity. To extrapolate and declare "none" from this tiny sample is foolish.

 

[garee]

You got that backwards. "Charismatic" comes from "charis", not the other way around.

The grace unto salvation is offered to all people. That doesn't mean that every kind of grace is given to every person. Paul makes clear in 1 Corinthians that not every gift is given to every individual.

Its offered to all people who hear the gospel as the law of God. Not a philosophical theory. Those who do not hear the law , perish .

But it applied to those who believe as a anchor of living hope to their new born again soul. . Unlike the others in Hebrews 6. Crucify Christ over and over (to complete the self edification) as if one work of Christ's faith fell short of the glory of God

 

[Noose]

The "count right here" is a miniscule segment of Christianity. To extrapolate and declare "none" from this tiny sample is foolish.

This tiny sample speaks volumes. I've also been to many churches and the situation is the same; everyone speaks languages that they don't understand and non interprets. I doubt that this situation can change even if the entire population of believers on earth is counted looking at how tongues are supposed to be spoken- basically two or three interpreters, one to confirm what the other is interpreting.

 

[Dino246]

1. The grace of God- there are no kinds when it comes to grace of God
2. Grace is not an offer to man, it brings salvation to man

Grace does not bring salvation to every man.

1 Corinthians 12:4 uses a compound word with "charis" as its root. There are different kinds of "charismata"... gifts of grace.

 

[Noose]

Grace does not bring salvation to every man.

It does, trust me.

1 Corinthians 12:4 uses a compound word with "charis" as its root. There are different kinds of "charismata"... gifts of grace.

Maybe, i have no knowledge on Greek.
But from what i know about Grace appearing for all mankind (not just an offer), then it disqualifies your connection between grace and gifts because grace is for all mankind but gifts are not.

 

[presidente]

And what is grace? Is it only for certain people or all men (mankind)

Titus 2:11For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people.

There's no connection between grace and gifts.

Xaris is translated 'grace.' Xarismata is translated as 'gifts.' Christian author John White described xarismata as a 'gracelet.'


Romans 12:6
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Ephesians 4
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

I Peter 4
10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

 

[Dino246]

It does, trust me.

I don't trust you, because I don't know you. I trust the Scriptures. They disagree with you, as they tell me that not every man is saved.

Maybe, i have no knowledge on Greek.
But from what i know about Grace appearing for all mankind (not just an offer), then it disqualifies your connection between grace and gifts because grace is for all mankind but gifts are not.

You're extrapolating the statement from Titus 2:11 to every possible expression of God's grace. That is poor interpretation.

 

[Noose]

Xaris is translated 'grace.' Xarismata is translated as 'gifts.' Christian author John White described xarismata as a 'gracelet.'


Romans 12:6
Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith;

Ephesians 4
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.

I Peter 4
10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

Agreed but this is still no proof of continuation of gifts because the gifts had a purpose even according to these verses.

 

[Noose]

I don't trust you, because I don't know you. I trust the Scriptures. They disagree with you, as they tell me that not every man is saved.


You're extrapolating the statement from Titus 2:11 to every possible expression of God's grace. That is poor interpretation.

You are right, i was wrong.
But can you show how this proves continuation of gifts.

 

[notuptome]

Fine... be a jackdonkey.

Fine be crude and unwashed.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dino246]

You are right, i was wrong.

Thank you. I respect your humility.

But can you show how this proves continuation of gifts.

I didn't claim that it does.

 

[presidente]

Agreed but this is still no proof of continuation of gifts because the gifts had a purpose even according to these verses.

Paul wrote the gifts edify the body of Christ. The body of Christ still needs edifying. The body of Christ still needs knowledge, exhortation, comfort, and edification. The body still needs to grow to the full measure of the stature of Christ.

If this were not the case, conversations like the ones on this thread would not exist. This thread proves my point.

 

[Jackson123]

Yes, i believe they came and prophesied back in the 1st century and what John saw and heard in his visions was retrospective of what had already happened the reason he was told to prophesy again, to all nations;

Rev 10:11And they told me, “You must prophesy again about many peoples and nations and tongues and kings.”

So you believe Paul and Peter die in first century than resurect in first century than they prophecy and do a Lot of miracle for 1230 days then people kill him and they die for second time, am I correct?

We know the book af act tells about what apostle did, and early Christian like Stephen stone to death in more detail don't you.

And you believe prophecy only happen before canonized.

When Paul and peter ressurect, before Canon or after canon

Why the detail story about what Paul and peter did for 1230 days not documented in the bible

Verse 3 say they prophecy for 1239 days, what is in their prophecy?

When Paul raise eutycus from the death, It did documented in the bible, because It is significant sign.

Rev 11 say These man (you believe Paul and peter ) and you believe It happen in first century, prophecy for 1230 days, why the content of the prophecy not in the bible?



Acts 20:7-11 English Standard Version (ESV)
Eutychus Raised from the Dead
7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered. 9 And a young man named Eutychus, sitting at the window, sank into a deep sleep as Paul talked still longer. And being overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead. 10 But Paul went down and bent over him, and taking him in his arms, said, “Do not be alarmed, for his life is in him.” 11 And when Paul had gone up and had broken bread and eaten, he conversed with them a long while, until daybreak, and so departed.

 

[Noose]

So you believe Paul and Peter die in first century than resurect in first century than they prophecy and do a Lot of miracle for 1230 days then people kill him and they die for second time, am I correct?

We know the book af act tells about what apostle did, and early Christian like Stephen stone to death in more detail don't you.

And you believe prophecy only happen before canonized.

When Paul and peter ressurect, before Canon or after canon

Why the detail story about what Paul and peter did for 1230 days not documented in the bible

Verse 3 say they prophecy for 1239 days, what is in their prophecy?

When Paul raise eutycus from the death, It did documented in the bible, because It is significant sign.

Rev 11 say These man (you believe Paul and peter ) and you believe It happen in first century, prophecy for 1230 days, why the content of the prophecy not in the bible?



Acts 20:7-11 English Standard Version (ESV)
Eutychus Raised from the Dead
7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered. 9 And a young man named Eutychus, sitting at the window, sank into a deep sleep as Paul talked still longer. And being overcome by sleep, he fell down from the third story and was taken up dead. 10 But Paul went down and bent over him, and taking him in his arms, said, “Do not be alarmed, for his life is in him.” 11 And when Paul had gone up and had broken bread and eaten, he conversed with them a long while, until daybreak, and so departed.

The two witnesses do not come back to life and continue prophesying, they prophesy for 3.5 years (not literal time but figurative) after which they are killed. Satan also takes reign from for 3.5 years (figurative).
Resurrection is not bodily but spiritual. Paul and Peter resurrected as shown in 2 Cor 4 and 2 Pet 1.

 

[Noose]

Paul wrote the gifts edify the body of Christ. The body of Christ still needs edifying. The body of Christ still needs knowledge, exhortation, comfort, and edification. The body still needs to grow to the full measure of the stature of Christ.

If this were not the case, conversations like the ones on this thread would not exist. This thread proves my point.

Like i said, edification was to bring unity in the church.

Eph 4:
11And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, 12to equip the saints for works of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.

14Then we will no longer be infants, tossed about by the waves and carried around by every wind of teaching and by the clever cunning of men in their deceitful scheming. 15Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into Christ Himself, who is the head. 16From Him the whole body, fitted and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love through the work of each individual part.

What does 1 Cor 13 say about love? when it is made complete then all these childish things will cease.It is not possible that love will only be made complete at the end of this age. This also means that our knowledge of the son of God will only be achieved at the end of age.

I have a question about 1 John 4 but let me ask in the next post.

 

[notuptome]

Paul wrote the gifts edify the body of Christ. The body of Christ still needs edifying. The body of Christ still needs knowledge, exhortation, comfort, and edification. The body still needs to grow to the full measure of the stature of Christ.

If this were not the case, conversations like the ones on this thread would not exist. This thread proves my point.

That would be the same Paul who wrote that three gifts would end. Not all the gifts just three that would no longer operate as they did with the apostles. The same apostles who had only the OT from which to preach Christ. With the NT all of the church could preach Christ to a lost and dying world.

Noble sentiments are not the same as biblical truth. It is the preaching that brings men to a knowledge of Christ because God has chosen preaching to accomplish that mission.

For the cause of Christ
Roger