Does the Holy Bible Teach: Is Jesus Christ God????

[feedm3]

Isa 40:1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God. (Elohim)
Isa 40:2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of the LORD'S hand double for all her sins.
Isa 40:3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD (Jehovah), make straight in the desert a highway for our God(Elohim).


Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me:and the Lord (adon), whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the Lord (Jehovah) of hosts


Isa says prepare the way for "Jehovah", and Malachi says "prepare the way for ME"

So then "Me" = Jehovah.

Sense John the baptist is been prophesied here, and he prepared the way for Jesus:

Does this mean Jesus = Jehovah?

I am asking, because I am trying to make sense of all this. Sorry if it's a little confusing.

 

[RickShafer]

It means Jesus is the representative of Jehovah to us.
He is 'God made flesh'.
Is He literally all of the Father? No.
But He told Phillip that when hePhillip), saw HimJesus); he saw the Father.
Because it was the Spirit of God the Father within Him that did all those miracles.
Remember when Jesus asked Phillip, "believe you not my words, that I am in the Father and the Father in me?
If you don't believe my words, believe my works." In other words, "haven't you seen enough in me and what I have done
being with Me these three years to know I am in the Father and the Father in Me?"
Jesus is God made flesh, He had God's Spirit without measure. -
Does that mean He is literally all there is to the Father? - No. Of course not.

 

[RickShafer]

I don't know where those sad faces came from, I didn't knowingly post them.
Please excuse me.

 

[feedm3]

It means Jesus is the representative of Jehovah to us.
He is 'God made flesh'.
Is He literally all of the Father? No.
But He told Phillip that when hePhillip), saw HimJesus); he saw the Father.
Because it was the Spirit of God the Father within Him that did all those miracles.
Remember when Jesus asked Phillip, "believe you not my words, that I am in the Father and the Father in me?
If you don't believe my words, believe my works." In other words, "haven't you seen enough in me and what I have done
being with Me these three years to know I am in the Father and the Father in Me?"
Jesus is God made flesh, He had God's Spirit without measure. -
Does that mean He is literally all there is to the Father? - No. Of course not.

Okay thank you, but you dont have to cry about it.

Lol Just joking, I get those all the time, its a certain combination of Characters that trigger them. Not sure which ones they are though.

 

[RickShafer]

Its - : and (
If you put them together the computer automatically knows what you are thinking

 

[apocalypse]

Well, didn't Jesus sasy "No one can follow me unless he hates his mother and father"...? Regardless of what God is, 3 or lucky 7 or whatever, who want's to follow a God that teaches that?

 

[otomarly]

In the Book of John, a few time Jesus refers to as God. But in the beginning of the book God sends John to us to teach and prepare us for the arrival of Jesus. It says" (6) There was a man named John who was sent from God.(7) He came as a witnessto testify about the light,so that all might believe through him." (John 1: 6-7 HCSB) Later John meets Jesus and says to Jesus, "you are the one that is known before me, meaning John, and will be known after me." So if you go by this there is only one higher power, God and the Son of God, Jesus. Jesus preforms a lot of amazing "signs" or miracles but was able to do this through God. But this is my interpretation and others might see it another way. That is why it is great to discuss it with others to get more looks on it.

 

[RickShafer]

Such questions............

Is a wheel round?

 

[babyboyblue]

Here's what God said to Jesus ...

Hebrews 1


8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

 

[GraceBeUntoYou]

The New Testament has a very intriguing way of portraying the Deity of Christ. Often times we tend to only focus our attention on specific texts in which the title "God" is attributed to Christ (2 Peter 1.1; Titus 2.13; John 1.1, 1.18, 20.28); however, when doing so there are an entire array of very powerful texts which often go overlooked.

For example, in the first chapter of his letter to the Hebrews, the author goes to great depth to tell us several essential things about Christ’s divinity, namely, that not only is He a distinct Person from the Father, but that He also possesses the exact ontological nature of the Father, and that He upholds the universe by the word of His power (1.3). The author then goes on in v. 6, and draws upon Deuteronomy 32.43 LXX/Psalm 96.7 LXX, which speaks of giving worship to YHWH, and applies these very words to Christ, affirming that He is the direct object of worship in the heavenly realm in and to the same degree that YHWH is worshipped. The author does not just stop there, rather, he then goes on to apply a Septuagint YHWH creation text taken from Psalm 102.25 LXX, and applies that very same verbiage to Christ (Hebrews 1.10-12), and in doing so indicates Christ’s identity as YHWH by applying the unique aspects of YHWH’s character to Him,

“And,
'You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of your hands;
they will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment,
like a robe you will roll them up,
like a garment they will be changed.
But you are the same,
and your years will have no end.'”
​

Some proponents of Unitarianism, more specifically, of the Socinian camp, tend to either (1) admit that this citation of Psalm 102 is applied to Christ, but try to explain it as a reference to the new creation rather than the Genesis creation (c.f. Hebrews 2.5); (2) argue that this citation is applied to the Father, and not the Son; or (3) that the Book of Hebrews should not be included in the canon at all. Through a careful examination of the text at hand, the first two arguments can very easily be dismissed due to the chiastic literary device used by the author (which is common in the Book of Hebrews),

(A) For to which of the angels did He ever say (v. 5a)

— (B) And again (v. 5b)

— — (C) And again when He brings the Firstborn into the world, He says (v. 6)

— — — (D) And of the angels He says (v. 7)

— — (C&#8217 But of the Son He says (vv. 8-9)

— (B&#8217 And (vv. 10-12)

(A&#8217 But to which of the angels has He ever said (v. 13)
​

Lines A and A’ are parallel, using the words “to which of the angels has God/He ever said.” Lines B and B’ are also parallel, using the simplest introductory formula “and.” Lines C and C’ are parallel because they both use synonymous designations for Christ, “the Firstborn” and “the Son." The center line D contains a quotation about the angels (“and of the angels He says&#8221 in contrast to the surrounding quotations about the Son. Everyone admits, as they must, that the quotations in lines A, B, C, C’, and A’ are about the Son. But then, given the literary arrangement of the catena into this chiasmus, we must acknowledge that the quotation in line B’, like the one in line B, is also about the Son.

With that being said, the text that is applied to the Son speaks of the earth’s foundation wearing out “like a garment,” and eventually perishing. Is it the new creation that “will perish,” and “wear out like a garment”? Or is it the Genesis creation that will pass away? I think the answer is rather apparent,

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and the sea was no more." (Rev. 21.1, ESV)
​

This text then, applied to Christ, places His existence before the Genesis creation, and affirms His complete, and total identity as YHWH.

There are numerous texts throughout the NT that speak of Christ in a similar fashion, such as those found in Matthew 21.15-16 (c.f. Psalm 8.1-2), 1 Peter 3.14-15 (c.f. Isaiah 8.12-13 LXX), Romans 10.13 (c.f. Acts 2.16-21, Joel 2.32), et al.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

OFM must stand for OmniFavorMent, because you like every post in the thread! (just kidding)

Now that each and every one of us, including myself, have the trinity all figured out, yet still have no clue...

Let us all break it back apart and try to:
Identify and receive the Holy Spirit.
Identify and emulate the Son.
Identify and worship the Father.



Peace!

 

[Trax]

I'd like to see a couple of the verses where those titles are in the OT. The Jews have a prayer of 50 titles of God they recite in modern synagogues, and I do not remember seeing anything like the examples you give in there. I'm wondering about to what extent God actually calls Himself those things, or they are just implied by events.

Here is one example: The giver of living water

Jer 2:12-13 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the
LORD. (13) For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living
waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Joh 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Example two : Rules the sea and waves

Psa 89:8-9 O LORD God of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round
about thee? (9) Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.

Mar 4:39-41 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. (40) And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? (41) And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?

Now, Jesus didn't claim to "be God" and I have said that before. Those 50 titles the Jews recite,
that you mentioned above, are names of God. To claim a name is to claim to be God. But Jesus
didn't claim a name of God, He claimed a title. When Jesus said He gives living water, He claimed
He was that fountain in Jer 2:13. When He calmed the sea, He laid hold of Ps 89:9

God is who God is and God does what God does, because God is who God is and God does what God
does. Jesus just said what He's always been and done what He's always done. Jesus doesn't
have to claim a Jewish name for God, Jesus just has to be Himself.

 

[CS1]

Here is one example: The giver of living water

Jer 2:12-13 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the
LORD. (13) For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living
waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Joh 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Example two : Rules the sea and waves

Psa 89:8-9 O LORD God of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round
about thee? (9) Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.

Mar 4:39-41 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. (40) And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? (41) And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?

Now, Jesus didn't claim to "be God" and I have said that before. Those 50 titles the Jews recite,
that you mentioned above, are names of God. To claim a name is to claim to be God. But Jesus
didn't claim a name of God, He claimed a title. When Jesus said He gives living water, He claimed
He was that fountain in Jer 2:13. When He calmed the sea, He laid hold of Ps 89:9

God is who God is and God does what God does, because God is who God is and God does what God
does. Jesus just said what He's always been and done what He's always done. Jesus doesn't
have to claim a Jewish name for God, Jesus just has to be Himself.

Then If Jesus is not God then He is a created being correct? And if you believe that then please explain how in the Book of Isaiah he is called Mighty God, ever lasting Father. And what did Jesus mean when He said The Father and I out one?

 

[Mediate]

In a certain manner.

They share the same will.

But Jesus speaks to God in the third person.

 

[kenisyes]

Here's what God said to Jesus ...

Hebrews 1


8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

The trouble is that the words "he saith" are not in the original. Translators supply them because of the parallelism. But that means the translators make an assumption. Further, "pros" in the verse above is translated "of" as in "of the angels; here is it translated "to" as in "saith to the Son". So, what stops us from reading it as "But of the Son (your throne O God is forever and ever, a sceptre of righteousness....) so he saith: "Thou hast loved righteousness....." ? In other words, verse 8 is there to define God's right to give the Kingship to Jesus. This is the concept of Ps. 2, where God is the King as creator, but He will give the kingship to Jesus, who certainly has it by Revelation.

A doubtful verse is not a proof, especially of something which is not stated so many times where it could be.

 

[kenisyes]

Here is one example: The giver of living water

Jer 2:12-13 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the
LORD. (13) For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living
waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.

Joh 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Example two : Rules the sea and waves

Psa 89:8-9 O LORD God of hosts, who is a strong LORD like unto thee? or to thy faithfulness round
about thee? (9) Thou rulest the raging of the sea: when the waves thereof arise, thou stillest them.

Mar 4:39-41 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm. (40) And he said unto them, Why are ye so fearful? how is it that ye have no faith? (41) And they feared exceedingly, and said one to another, What manner of man is this, that even the wind and the sea obey him?

Now, Jesus didn't claim to "be God" and I have said that before. Those 50 titles the Jews recite,
that you mentioned above, are names of God. To claim a name is to claim to be God. But Jesus
didn't claim a name of God, He claimed a title. When Jesus said He gives living water, He claimed
He was that fountain in Jer 2:13. When He calmed the sea, He laid hold of Ps 89:9

God is who God is and God does what God does, because God is who God is and God does what God
does. Jesus just said what He's always been and done what He's always done. Jesus doesn't
have to claim a Jewish name for God, Jesus just has to be Himself.

I think it was JemuJ who started this listing of titles. Two days ago, he was so kind as to send me the entire list of 95 titles he had gotten from the Messianic Jewish school of Hebrew on the internet. I took an hour or so and waded through them. These were in there.

Jesus does not claim to be the fountain of living water, but a conduit. I can give anyone water from a fountain, just by brining it back in a pitcher for them. John 7:38 says that the disciples will one day have this living water flowing from them, because it will come by the Holy Spirit. Again, He is simply claiming to be a conduit, not the fountain.

Just because Jesus and God can both rule the waves, does not prove either of them ever claimed the title. I know a ten-year old boy who prayed and stopped a storm.

I don't agree that just looking at Jesus' miracles proves He is God. Elijah did many of the same miracles. The Jewish exorcists (Acts 19:13) seem to have been pretty successful up until the incident reported, or they would not have attempted what they did). Matt. 12:27 says Jews did this regularly. Looking at the resurrection might do it, if the Bible wasn't so clear that "God raised Jesus up".

 

[kenisyes]

Then If Jesus is not God then He is a created being correct? And if you believe that then please explain how in the Book of Isaiah he is called Mighty God, ever lasting Father. And what did Jesus mean when He said The Father and I out one?

That is quite reasonable. The question before us is can we prove it from the Bible. You are assuming that everyone who is not God is created. Yet the Bible uses the term "only begotten" (John 1:18) implying some sort of difference, perhaps a third type?

 

[kenisyes]

Please let me clarify (I just looked at the last three posts). I do believe Jesus is God. I just don't think we can prove it from any Scripture passage that refers to an old testament text.

 

[AtonedFor]

God will be born on the earth as a Son
Old Testament … Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6
New Testament … Matthew 1:23, Luke 1:35, John 1:14, 1 Timothy 3:16

Father God --- both are called --- Jesus Christ
Old Testament. the following: ---- New Testament
Genesis 17:1 - Lord -------------- Luke 2:11, etc.
Malachi 2:14 - Lord of hosts ----- see Zechariah 14:16
Psalm 24:10 -- Lord of glory ----- 1 Corinthians 2:8
Isaiah 60:16 - Savior ------------ Titus 2:13, etc.
Isaiah 49:26 - Redeemer ---------- Galatians 3:13
Exodus 3:14 -- I AM -------------- John 8:24, etc.
Isaiah 44:8 -- Rock -------------- 1 Corinthians 10:4
Psalm 74:12 -- King -------------- Revelation 19:16
Isaiah 44:6 -- First and Last ---- Rev.2:8, Rev.22:13
See Rev.21:6 - Alpha and Omega --- Rev.22:13
See Rev.21:6 - Beginning and End - Rev.22:13
Isaiah 45:23 - compare with ------ Philippians 2:10-11

Jesus claimed to be “I AM” (which is God’s name “forever”: see Exodus 3:14-15)
John 4:26, John 8:24, John 8:28, John 8:58, John 13:19, John 18:6, John 18:8
In the original Greek, there is no “he” after “I AM” in any of the verses above.

And Jesus also hints that He is the great “I AM”
John 6:35, John 6:51, John 8:12, John 10:7, John 10:11, John 11:25, John 14:6, John 15:1

Jesus was the exact image of Father God
2 Corinthians 4:4, Hebrews 1:3, Philippians 2:6, Colossians 1:15, Colossians 1:19, Colossians 2:9, John 14:9, 1 Timothy 3:16

Jesus claimed equality with Father God
John 5:18, John 5:23, John 10:30, John 10:33, John 10:36, John 10:38, John 14:9, John 17:22, John 20:28-29

Others claimed Jesus was God, or equal to Father God
John 1:1-2 (see Rev.19:13), John 14:11, John 20:28, Acts 7:59, Romans 9:5, Philippians 2:10-11, Titus 2:13, Hebrews 1:8-13, 1 John 5:20, Jude 4

Jesus was the Creator of all things
John 1:3, John 1:10, Acts 3:15, 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 3:9, Colossians 1:16, Hebrews 1:2, Hebrews 1:8-11

Jesus is the Sustainer of all things now
Colossian 1:17, Hebrews 1:3

Jesus had total power and authority over everything and everybody
Matthew 4:24, Matthew 8:16, Matthew 8:26, Luke 4:40-41, etc.

Jesus is the Giver of eternal life
John 4:14, John 5:21, John 6:27, John 10:27-28, John 11:25, John 14:6, John 17:2, Hebrews 5:9, 1 John 1:1-2, 1 John 5:20

 

[DesertJoe]

Kenisyes, Please look at these verses in John 10:
30 I and My Father are one.”
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?”
33 The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

It is clear that the Jews of Jesus' day new full well that Jesus was claiming to be God, and for that they wanted to stone Him.
To call any man "Son of God" in that day was considered blasphemy, and yet Peter said in Matthew 16:16 "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
In the next verse we see Jesus' reply to Peter
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven."
In Mark 20:28 Thomas said "Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven.