Does the new covenant affirm or deny the OT?

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#61
The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.
yeah. as i was saying :)

so, obvious question - are we subject to a law of sabbath or are we blessed with His rest?


is true sabbath an ordinance or a person? what's the primary purpose of Exodus 20: a civil code of conduct or a testimony of Jesus Christ?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#62
yeah. as i was saying :)

so, obvious question - are we subject to a law of sabbath or are we blessed with His rest?

is true sabbath an ordinance or a person? what's the primary purpose of Exodus 20: a civil code of conduct or a testimony of Jesus Christ?
Do you respect the Sabbath as was made for man by God?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#63
Do you respect the Sabbath as was made for man by God?

Exodus 20:8-11 is a testimony of Christ; have i said something that makes you doubt i respect Christ?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,923
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#69
Do you have respect for the Sabbath?
do you not know Who He is?

It is vain for you to rise up early,
to sit up late, to eat the bread of sorrows;
For so He gives His beloved sleep.

(Psalm 127:2)

how could i aught but love Him
 

Ghoti2

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2019
469
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#70
What do you suppose people do with Hebrews 4 when it speaks of Jesus as our Sabbath rest? Verses 9-10 in particular state, "So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his."
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#72
The Sabbath was not a ceremonial law. It was part of the Ten Commands of God, those which God wrote with His own finger in stone.
If the Sabbath were a ceremonial law it would have been practiced when someone sinned. But it wasn't that.
Is the Sabbath a Ceremonial Law or Moral Law?

It seems today that many cannot tell the difference between what God wrote in stone and what Moses wrote in a book. There are some who claim that the Lord's Sabbath is a ceremonial law and they go to complicated extremes to try and prove this heresy. But the truth does not have to be complicated and so we are going to keep this simple so that the wise will have no trouble seeing how our adversary has once again set out to deceive many on this precious Commandment about quality time with God on His Holy day.

As there is so much confusion between laws it would be very beneficial to read the first few paragraphs of the comparison between the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic Law before continuing. See also the Bible list of the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments were personally spoken by God, and written by the finger of God (Exodus 31:18; Deuteronomy 4:12-13) and stored on the inside of the Ark of the Covenant. (Deuteronomy 10:5)
On the top of the Ark of the Covenant were two Cherubim and between these two Cherubim was what is known as the Shekinah glory which represented the very presence of God Himself. Directly under the Shekinah glory was the mercy seat and under the mercy seat was where these stone tablets which God wrote upon were stored. This is the moral law of God and it is not difficult to see just how important this law is. The purpose of this law written in stone is to point out sin. (Romans 7:7)

The ceremonial law on the other hand was given to Moses by God and was written by Moses on parchment in a book (Deuteronomy 31:24) and was stored on the outside of the Ark of the Covenant (Deuteronomy 31:26) to be a witness against the Israelite people. Hence it was also called the Mosaic Law or the law of Moses since it was written by him. This law is also called the sacrificial law as it was added because of sin and was practiced when one sinned before Jesus replaced this sacrificial law on the cross when He became our final sacrifice ending the need for this law. Thus the Mosaic Law only was nailed to the cross. See were the Ten Commandments nailed to the cross.

So basically we have the moral law which defines love and the character of God and the ceremonial law that was added because God's moral law was transgressed. (1 John 3:4) Now to state the obvious, if the Lord's Sabbath had been a ceremonial law then it would have been practiced when one sinned before the cross but the Sabbath of the Lord was never practiced because of sin. It would also had to have been written by Moses in his book of the law, but not so.

Most of the genuine confusion comes from the fact that there were also sacrificial sabbaths such as “Passover” and “Day Of Atonement” and five others that were added because of sin. Jesus of course became our Passover Lamb and no one can dispute that was about sacrifices and hence sin, (Hebrews 10:12; Romans 6:23) and the Day Of Atonement was about removing the sins of the people from the sanctuary, and again, clearly about sacrifices. These two sacrificial, ceremonial sabbaths were written down by Moses in the Mosaic Law where they belonged, as I hope one would now understand.

Now, to state the obvious once again, the Mosaic Laws were written in the Mosaic Law and the Ten Commandment laws were written in the Ten Commandments. The “Sabbath of the Lord thy God” (Exodus 20:8-11) is the fourth Commandment. The Creator of the universe does not make mistakes and knew exactly what He was doing when He wrote His Sabbath in His law instead of the Law of Moses, which had all the ceremonial sabbaths! God put His Sabbath precisely where it belonged. God is not a fool and “is not the author of confusion…” 1 Corinthians 14:33.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#73
Some also claim that the Lord's Sabbath was not made at creation but scripture shows this incorrect also. The only reason why we have a seven day week is because God added the Seventh day Sabbath at creation. (Genesis 2:1-3) The word translated “rested” in our English Bibles in Genesis 2:3 is “shabbath” in Hebrew and means Sabbath! So the Sabbath was made at creation before sin and was part of God's original perfect plan. Thus the Lord's Sabbath existed a long time before the ceremonial law ever did which is just one more reason why the Lord's Sabbath cannot be a ceremonial law. Exodus 31:17 also confirms when God created the Sabbath day, “It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever:..” When and why was this? Because...in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested [shabbath], and was refreshed.” Parentheses are added. And as per Genesis 2:3, the word “rested” in Exodus 31:17 is also “shabbath” thus saying God rested on the Sabbath after creating and was refreshed.
See also is the Sabbath for Israel only.

Those guilty of antinomianism often claim that the moral law and the ceremonial law are the same but to make such a statement is no different from saying that when someone commits adultery, they must go and commit murder to make reconciliation for their sin. Or that Jesus died on the cross because people were using animals for sacrifices. This sounds ridiculous I know, but this is what they are effectively saying when they try to convince others that there is no difference between these two laws. It is easily seen that one law was about animal sacrifices that Jesus replaced, while the other is a law of love which defines God's character and is sin to break.

Some also claim that the moral law did not exist before the Ten Commandments were given but again scripture proves this false. (Genesis 26:5) These commandments, statutes and laws cannot be the Mosaic Law because this law was not given until 430 years later because the law was transgressed. But what law? (Galatians 3:17-19) The Ten Commandments had to be transgressed first and why the sacrificial law was added to make reconciliation for sin until the seed should come. It obviously cannot be the other way around. Note that this law was only until the seed (Christ) as He nailed this sacrificial law to the cross being the perfect sacrifice. Read what is the law in Galatians for more. We also find the Sabbath being kept before the Ten Commandments were codified in Exodus 20. Just before God first read the Ten Commandments, He said to Moses that He is going to test the people to see if they will keep all His law or not. The Sabbath is very much a test Commandment and most are failing miserably just as God's children did in Exodus 16:4-30. So how did God test the people to see if they loved Him enough to obey His Law? By seeing if they would specifically keep the Seventh Day or not. Did they keep the Seventh day as God commanded? No! And so God accused them of breaking all His law. As far as God was concerned, if they did not keep the fourth Commandment as He commanded then they were breaking all His Laws and Commandments. We find James confirms this same principle as God. (James 2:10-12)

Seventeen verses after the second reading of the Ten Commandments, Moses quoting God states in Deuteronomy 6:5 that to keep the Ten Commandments God wrote in stone is to love Him with all our heart, soul and might. Thus these Ten Laws, which of course includes the fourth Commandment are about loving God with all our heart and are therefore moral laws. So did you note that all Ten are love for God? The fourth being the Sabbath is also a Commandment of love because Deuteronomy 6:5 says that loving God with all your heart, soul and might is to keep each and every one of the Ten Commandments that had just been read. In no way does loving God supremely change one single Commandment. So we find from these points and many more that the Lord's Sabbath cannot be a ceremonial law.

[Read also was the Sabbath abolished.
..."The Sabbath was not abolished at the cross and that can also be proven by the following page on the Sabbath in the New Covenant. Read what day is the Sabbath day or who changed the Sabbath to Sunday to see that it was not changed to Sunday according to the Bible. Also read how the Sabbath was changed to Sunday to discover in brief all the steps Satan used to bring about the change of the Sabbath day. See also do we need to keep the feast days. " ]
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,385
6,729
113
#74
The Sabbath was not a ceremonial law. It was part of the Ten Commands of God, those which God wrote with His own finger in stone.
If the Sabbath were a ceremonial law it would have been practiced when someone sinned. But it wasn't that.
Is the Sabbath a Ceremonial Law or Moral Law?

It seems today that many cannot tell the difference between what God wrote in stone and what Moses wrote in a book. There are some who claim that the Lord's Sabbath is a ceremonial law and they go to complicated extremes to try and prove this heresy. But the truth does not have to be complicated and so we are going to keep this simple so that the wise will have no trouble seeing how our adversary has once again set out to deceive many on this precious Commandment about quality time with God on His Holy day.

As there is so much confusion between laws it would be very beneficial to read the first few paragraphs of the comparison between the Ten Commandments and the Mosaic Law before continuing. See also the Bible list of the Ten Commandments.

The Ten Commandments were personally spoken by God, and written by the finger of God (Exodus 31:18; Deuteronomy 4:12-13) and stored on the inside of the Ark of the Covenant. (Deuteronomy 10:5)
On the top of the Ark of the Covenant were two Cherubim and between these two Cherubim was what is known as the Shekinah glory which represented the very presence of God Himself. Directly under the Shekinah glory was the mercy seat and under the mercy seat was where these stone tablets which God wrote upon were stored. This is the moral law of God and it is not difficult to see just how important this law is. The purpose of this law written in stone is to point out sin. (Romans 7:7)

The ceremonial law on the other hand was given to Moses by God and was written by Moses on parchment in a book (Deuteronomy 31:24) and was stored on the outside of the Ark of the Covenant (Deuteronomy 31:26) to be a witness against the Israelite people. Hence it was also called the Mosaic Law or the law of Moses since it was written by him. This law is also called the sacrificial law as it was added because of sin and was practiced when one sinned before Jesus replaced this sacrificial law on the cross when He became our final sacrifice ending the need for this law. Thus the Mosaic Law only was nailed to the cross. See were the Ten Commandments nailed to the cross.

So basically we have the moral law which defines love and the character of God and the ceremonial law that was added because God's moral law was transgressed. (1 John 3:4) Now to state the obvious, if the Lord's Sabbath had been a ceremonial law then it would have been practiced when one sinned before the cross but the Sabbath of the Lord was never practiced because of sin. It would also had to have been written by Moses in his book of the law, but not so.

Most of the genuine confusion comes from the fact that there were also sacrificial sabbaths such as “Passover” and “Day Of Atonement” and five others that were added because of sin. Jesus of course became our Passover Lamb and no one can dispute that was about sacrifices and hence sin, (Hebrews 10:12; Romans 6:23) and the Day Of Atonement was about removing the sins of the people from the sanctuary, and again, clearly about sacrifices. These two sacrificial, ceremonial sabbaths were written down by Moses in the Mosaic Law where they belonged, as I hope one would now understand.

Now, to state the obvious once again, the Mosaic Laws were written in the Mosaic Law and the Ten Commandment laws were written in the Ten Commandments. The “Sabbath of the Lord thy God” (Exodus 20:8-11) is the fourth Commandment. The Creator of the universe does not make mistakes and knew exactly what He was doing when He wrote His Sabbath in His law instead of the Law of Moses, which had all the ceremonial sabbaths! God put His Sabbath precisely where it belonged. God is not a fool and “is not the author of confusion…” 1 Corinthians 14:33.
* the Ark of the Covenant.

what Covenant? well, according to Leviticus 26, the Covenant was made with " the fathers of those who came out of Egypt.".

so, if one cannot trace their ancestry back to those who walked across the red sea, then one was never under that Covenant, which of course contains the Sabbath command.
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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#75
What do you suppose people do with Hebrews 4 when it speaks of Jesus as our Sabbath rest? Verses 9-10 in particular state, "So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God's rest has also rested from his works as God did from his."
We are always in Christ and Christ is eternally within us.
A day of rest is a day Jesus observed as was meant to be. That's why the law keepers, the Pharisee, sought to persecute Jesus for "working" on the Sabbath. Jesus showed the people what the Sabbath day meant. It was a day of rest from the world, not from God's calling to serve.
When we rest, and are at rest on Sabbath day, we can tune out the world. We can be in the word, serve God as we're led to, etc...
That's what it means when it says, the Sabbath was made for us. We were not made for the Sabbath.

Jesus never abolished the Sabbath. He led by example, and He and His Apostles observed the Sabbath as He exampled, as did Paul.
There's something to be said for Jesus example and recollection of that if we run into fellow Christians who say, the Sabbath was done away with just like "all the other laws of God".
The Ten Commandments are not done away. God forbid!
Read them over, as you know them by heart most likely. Imagine the opposite of what they instruct if you wish to gain a picture of those moral commands no longer applying, as some in the world would claim.
Instead of reading, thou shalt not.... Put in its place, thou shalt.....
Because if those ten moral commands no longer apply, that is precisely what is being said.
Thou shalt have other god's before Me.
Thou shalt.....

The Devil never gives up trying to lead Christians astray. That's why we are warned of false teachers who will try to deceive even the Saints , the Elect, of God.
The adversary has his disciples too.
 

Ghoti2

Well-known member
Nov 8, 2019
469
283
63
#77
A very good friend of mine wrote this .
The 10 Commandments as Promises​

It must have been a strange feeling for Moses to return to the place where God had spoken to him out of the burning bush. On his first visit, a flock of sheep had surrounded him. Now, two million people surrounded him. God called him back up Mount Sinai to give him the commandments by which His people are to live. The Law of God was never a ladder for unsaved people to climb to heaven. It was always a pattern of life for God's people who had been saved from judgment by the blood of the Lamb.

A New Dimension of God's Grace
God was not saying, "I'm giving you these commandments, so that by keeping them you may become My people." He was saying, "I am giving you these commandments because you are My people." The message of the Law to us today is not that we must keep the laws in order to be saved, but rather that because we are saved, we should keep these laws. The Law tells us how people who belong to God ought to live.

This is important, because some people have the idea that the Old Testament is a book of law, and the New Testament is a book of grace, and that the OT has nothing to do with us because we're not under law, we're under grace. That is a complete misunderstanding of the Bible. The whole Bible is a book of grace. God has one plan from beginning to end, and it all fits together. God promised a Redeemer on the very day that sin entered the world. God has always saved His people by grace and through faith. We've seen this in the stories of Adam and Eve, Noah and the Exodus. There is one God, and there is one story.

Get a Glimpse of the Glory of God
In the NT, sin is defined as "fall(ing) short of the glory of God" and as "break(ing) the law" (Rom.3:23; 1 John 3:4). Put these two truths together, and we make an interesting discovery. The Law is an expression of God's glory. Every one of the Ten Commandments (Ex. 20:3-17) reflects some aspect of the character of God. When God declared, "You shall have no other gods before me" (v. 3), it was because: He is the only God. There is no one like Him. He said not to misuse His name because: His Name is above every name. The reason we should honor our father and mother is that: all fatherhood derives from God, and all authority, even within family life, derives from Him. Why should we not commit adultery? Because God is faithful. Why should we not steal? Because God is trustworthy. Why should we not lie? Because God is truth. Why should we not covet? Because God is at peace, and content in Himself.

The Ten Commandments are not an arbitrary set of rules. They are a direct reflection of the character of God. So as you think and meditate about the Law, let it lead you to worship and to the realization that the greatest challenge for God's people is to reflect God's character in the world. When we obey His law, we reflect something of His glory.

The Greatest Battles of Your Heart
A second reason for God giving these Ten Commandments is that they speak to the ten most significant struggles of human experience. Parents know all about this. They always give rules to their children to target areas of struggle. They give instructions like, "Eat your dinner!" or "Do your homework!" or "Clean your room!"… to help kids overcome their struggles. When God gave the Ten Commandments, He spoke directly to the primary struggles that all of us experience. Take a moment to read Exodus 20:3-17. These are the battle of our lives, are they not? The Law is like a light. It shines into our souls, and when we look at what God says to us, we have to admit that He is speaking directly to the primary battles of our own heart. This should drive us to God like nothing else.

The apostle Paul wrote that the Law is a good thing, just like X-rays are a good thing - even if they may bring us bad news. Through the Law of God, I discover that I'm a person who finds it difficult to let God be God, and I am a person who is naturally more interested in myself than in the interests of other people. The Law announces my need of Jesus Christ.

The Law is like a teacher to bring us to Christ (Galatians 3:24). When you learn what the Law has to teach, you will, if you've learned the lesson properly, come to Jesus Christ. And if the Law does not bring you to Jesus, then you have missed the greatest purpose God intended for it. This is the point of Jesus' statement to the Pharisees, "You diligently study the Scriptures...yet you refuse to come to me" (John 5:39-40). The first reason you need Jesus Christ is NOT that you'll have richer, fuller, and more satisfying life. It is that you are a sinner in nature and practice, and the X-ray of God's Law shows it, even if you feel no pain!

Laying Track for the Train
God's ultimate purpose is to restore in us the true refection of His glory. Since God's glory is expressed in His Law. That means that the purpose of the gospel is to bring us to the position where we begin to live according to the Law of God. This transformation is the work of the Holy Spirit, and is spoken of in the Old and New Testament. "I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you... I will put my Spirit in you and move you to follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws." (Ezekiel 36:26-27)

The Law of God is like the rails for a train. The rails give direction, but the train will not go anywhere unless there is power in the engine. It is the special work of the Holy Spirit to give God's people power to move in the direction that is laid out in God's law. The Christian life is not a matter of believing in Jesus and then trying your best to live according to God's Law. The Holy Spirit resides in your life and He will make the difference between a battle in which you are destined for defeat, and a battle in which there will be ultimate victory.

Delighting in the Law
If you have understood the Law of God, it should cause you to fall down in worship, because the Law shows us who God is and what He is like. It will make you cling to Jesus Christ because you will be absolutely clear about why you need Him. It gives you direction for a new life in the power of the Holy Spirit that is no longer a list of impossible demands, but a description of new possibilities
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
25,587
13,857
113
#78
The Sabbath was not a ceremonial law. It was part of the Ten Commands of God, those which God wrote with His own finger in stone.
If the Sabbath were a ceremonial law it would have been practiced when someone sinned. But it wasn't that.

It seems today that many cannot tell the difference between what God wrote in stone and what Moses wrote in a book. There are some who claim that the Lord's Sabbath is a ceremonial law and they go to complicated extremes to try and prove this heresy.
There isn't a single verse of Scripture anywhere that identifies any commandment as "ceremonial" or "moral" (or "civil", for that matter) or that divides the Law into categories. So, perhaps you should be a little more cautious before slinging around words like "heresy".
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
4,551
2,230
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www.christiancourier.com
#79
There isn't a single verse of Scripture anywhere that identifies any commandment as "ceremonial" or "moral" (or "civil", for that matter) or that divides the Law into categories. So, perhaps you should be a little more cautious before slinging around words like "heresy".
I can tell you didn't read the article.