Does the sovereignty of God nullify the grace of God?
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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Christ Jesus only died for those that his Father gave him, which included all of the old testament saints and all of the new testament saints.
Jesus, while on the cross, gave them the promise of their eternal inheritance of heaven, without the loss of one (John 6:37-40).
Let me try to explain it as simple and I can I do not think were are in agreement but I am not going to say you are wrong.
God Has to Judge sin. This is the hurling assaults from Satan who accuses the brethren Believe.
God must judge sin. My sin. HE must judge He must use his power and authority to do so. Because HE is Holy.
Yet He demands blood for sin. Jesus made that payment and removed the punishment of the law from me. God willingness not to punish me was because another took it on my behalf. It is not that God want to per say, it is God Made away out of HIS Judgment.
Very powerful stuff I might say.[/QUOTE
God's adopted children are judged daily, by God's chastening, as they sojourn here on earth, and will not be judged at the last day, and will be told to "enter in to heaven ye good and faithful servant".
There is a definition that is taken as, summarily, "God gets what God wants," and so he must not want "all to be saved" since not all are saved... however, I see it more accurately as, and this is probably not word for word either, "God wants everyone to come to the knowledge of salvation," that is 'to know salvation, that is Christ." Is not the desire for each 'comer's' involvement by his/her coming (which is an action word) also contained within that will?
Jesus said, "I will draw all men to Me" and also, "no man can come to Me unless the Father draws him" so tell me Who, then, exerts the initial draw? Does anyone know? Yet, that not everyone comes to know salvation equates to...God not wanting them to come rather than them not willing to come?! Is it out of God's character to offer regard the will of man, I mean isn't considering an individual's will a might too humble to be God? Yet, Jesus said, "Come, and learn of me... I am humble and lowly of heart..."
Oh well, anyway. I came here 10 years ago with the hopes of finding the Christian rendition of the Borg, all that we could accomplish if we were all actually one. Just think of the potential to dissolve the world in a total blazing glory... I must be delusional.
Mem, You have more knowledge of the truth than most on this forum, but you seem to be lacking in making the scriptures harmonize, as there should be no contradictions in the scriptures if we are to have the full knowledge of the truth, in which my hope is that my comments may contribute to your better understanding.
Your remark of "God wants everyone to come unto the knowledge of salvation" will contradict with your statement that "God gets what he wants". You are right that God gets what he wants (Dan 4:35) (Eph 1:5) (Eph 1:11)
You have taken your quote from 1 Tim 2:4 and I am going to give you the interpretation that I think is the right interpretation. You can research it and come to an understanding of your own, but just keep in mind that the scriptures do not contradict themselves in matters concerning the doctrine of Jesus Christ.
Paul left Timothy in Ephesus to charge some, in the church, that they teach no other doctrine (1 Tim 1:3). Paul further instructs Timothy (in 1 Tim 2) that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men who are in authority over the city of Ephesus hat the church in Ephesus may lead a quite and peaceful life in all godliness and honesty, for this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men, who have been teaching a false doctrine, to be saved=delivered from their ignorance, and come unto a knowledge of the truth.
Verse 2:6 - Who gave himself a ransom for all (of those that His Father gave him - John 6:39). Verse 2:8 - I will therefore that men every where, lifting up holy hands, without without wrath and doubting (Psalms 134).
Timothy continued, in this second chapter to instruct the members as to how they should conduct themselves in the church.
I hope this helps your understanding, in the fact that the scriptures do not contradict each other.
If we are discussing scripture, it would help me to know exactly what scripture you are basing your statement on.
What is your interpretation of John 6:38-39?
Everyone who is born into this world, by natural birth, inherits the sin of Adam, until they are born again. The wicked (those who are not born again) live to be old (Psalms 73, especially verse 5) Infants who die are born again. John was even born again in his mother's whom.
Supreme Power, defines the Sovereignty of God. He has the power and justification to do anything He pleases. But even in this capacity of having all of this freedom to do as God wants to do, He also set up His own basic rules and guidelines to keep Him from being a dictator. Free will, is the biggest attribute He gave to His creation. Mercy and Grace He put into place so He will be patient with us. The Sovereignty of God is actually fascinating. He can do anything. Has all power. But makes it fair in how He utilizes His position.
None, but Christ died for them to make a way for them to have everlasting life. Why do you ask?
For starters...
1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
No, God's sovereignty does not nullify His grace.
To say that God is sovereign, is to say that He is the ultimate and supreme Ruler. There is no higher authority than Him.
I believe that man's free will does not compromise the sovereignty of God. Rather, the former emphasizes the latter.
Because there is no thing or no one greater than God, His purposes will be accomplished regardless of what mankind does or doesn't do. And to paraphrase A. W. Tozer, only a god (intentional lowercase) less than sovereign would be afraid to give mankind free will.
Before God created the universe, He had infinite options at His disposal as to how He would accomplish that. Therefore, no matter what has happened, will happen, could have happened or will have happened, God's Will stands.
To say that God is sovereign, is to say that He is the ultimate and supreme Ruler. There is no higher authority than Him.
I believe that man's free will does not compromise the sovereignty of God. Rather, the former emphasizes the latter.
Because there is no thing or no one greater than God, His purposes will be accomplished regardless of what mankind does or doesn't do. And to paraphrase A. W. Tozer, only a god (intentional lowercase) less than sovereign would be afraid to give mankind free will.
Before God created the universe, He had infinite options at His disposal as to how He would accomplish that. Therefore, no matter what has happened, will happen, could have happened or will have happened, God's Will stands.
The only sinners that Christ Jesus saved eternally are those that his Father gave him (John 6:38-39), and he did not lose any of them, and will raise them up at the last day.
Romans 9 gives us specific instances of God choosing specific individual because of His foreknowledge of their character.
9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. Why? God saw Jacob as a man of faith (in spite of his deception of Isaac). God also saw Esau as a faithless "profane" person (Heb 12:16) who did not genuinely repent.
9:17: For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Why? God saw Pharaoh as an unrepentant person, even though he was given many chances to repent. Pharaoh was an evil man to begin with and he kept hardening his heart until God hardened it. God showed His power in the plagues, and then in the drowning of Pharaoh and his army.
9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? This would correspond to what Christ said regarding the Gospel: He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (John 3:18) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:16)
9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: For example, the world before the Flood had 120 years to repent.
Concerning God’select nation, Israel…they are enemies of the gospel. They were elect, chosen, to bring forth the seed, Jesus. Salvation is never the context of election.
Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
