Don’t take your JESUS to a night club.
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(wee elephant moving some distance away from Reborn, looking skyward for the impending lightening bolt!)
How outrageous my responses are .....keeps in line with how outrageous the thread idea is.
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cmarieh
Guest
I personally don’t see anything wrong with a Christian going to a nightclub or a bar. The intentions of why you want to go may be wrong. For example if you are planning to go to the nightclub to see if you can find someone to take home for the night, then I believe it’s wrong. However, if you go with the intent of having a good time with friends and maybe meet new people then I don’t see anything wrong with it. The same goes for a bar, in fact I have heard of a few people meeting in a bar at the end of the day for a bible study or to relax, there is nothing wrong with it even if you do plan on getting a beer. Nowhere in the bible does it clearly say that you can’t do any of these things. Granted, people can and have manipulated scripture to say these things are not biblical, but I believe what the bible says rather than what man does. I would say ask yourself, what your intentions are in wanting to go to that type of establishment and the people you are wanting to go with (they need to have the same intentions as you), set up boundaries and stick with them, because there are obviously creepy characters that hang out at these places.
The Bible says to be careful, or you'll fall in temptation. Those places aren't necessarily the best places to go for fellowship. If you're at a club it's not like you go on stage and grab a Mic and start preaching from the Gospel's. Same if you're at a bar. You wouldn't stand on top to do the same. As someone that goes to sports bars, yes I don't see anything wrong with it. But at the same time, if you're going at 1 a.m. on a Saturday night, can you honestly say something good is going to come out of it?
During a darker time, I spent time in the clubs and bars. I wont step foot in them now. I spend time with my kids and I stay active in the church.
2Peter 2:22
It has happened to them according to the true proverb: A dog returns to its own vomit, and, "a sow, after washing itself, wallows in the mud."
To put it bluntly, nightclubs are part of the world which is controlled by Satan. They are designed for the purpose of giving oneself over to sinful desires. Nightclubs exist primarily for two purposes: drinking alcohol and meeting members of the opposite sex, most often with sexual activity in mind. Yes, there are music and dancing, but primarily singles in particular go clubbing to drink and meet someone. Nightclubs are of the world, and, while Christians are to be in the world, we are not to be of it. Being of the world means to be interested in and desiring those things that appeal to the sinful nature.
Paul, speaking to Christians, addresses the issue of worldly practices in Ephesians 4:17-24, "So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking. They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, with a continual lust for more. You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." Here Paul describes those who exclude God and give themselves over to sensuality for the practice of every kind of impurity with greediness.
Obviously, God does not desire us to give ourselves over to sin so easily and willfully. Notice what God says here, "put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires." It's interesting to note that God says when we give ourselves over to our sin nature, we are being deceived by our desires. Satan is a master counterfeiter. In other words, Satan presents something that appears on the surface to be attractive. The lure of clubbing is that it is very enjoyable, fun, and exciting. What we don't see are the consequences because Satan keeps the sensual attraction at the forefront of our minds. Sex, alcohol, and drugs—all found in most nightclubs—are very destructive, both physically and spiritually. God has a place for sex where it is the most enjoyable—in monogamous marriage, where there are no STD's, HIV, guilt, aloneness—and those who don't believe God in this are short-changing themselves.
God desires for us to be righteous and holy because He created us to be that way. The benefits of living the life that God intended far exceed the petty, short-lived thrills that this world offers. Many who are or used to be in the nightclub lifestyle say the same thing—there is no joy, there is no fulfillment; there is only emptiness. Only God can fulfill our needs and give us the joy and happiness we all seek. Clubbing offers nothing more than a very cheap imitation. There is no lasting joy to be found in nightclubs, only temptation to sin.
Such places are most especially not for Christians. Aside from the obvious temptations, there is the issue of our Christian witness in the world. When unbelievers see a professing Christian engaging in a sinful lifestyle, Christ is maligned and demeaned. We are to let our lights shine before men so they see our good works and glorify our Father who is in heaven (Matthew 5:16). It’s hard to see how the light of our new life in Christ can shine in a nightclub. Even if the Christian is not indulging in the sinful activities, the witness he or she presents to the watching world by just being there is destructive and must be avoided.
gotquestions.org
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cmarieh
Guest
That is why I said you need to go with people that have the same intentions and to set up boundaries that you stick with. You should not go by yourself, that is just asking for trouble, but when you show up and leave with the same people, you do hold each other accountable. I do think by saying these places are bad and nothing good can come from it is passing judgment, which is wrong.
I went clubbing for the first time New Year's Eve two years ago... It was the most uncomfortable thing I had ever experienced. Not to mention the fact I was five minutes away from possibly being killed in an auto accident. But because I had stayed for an addition five minutes, another person was in a tragic car accident Just right outside the night club. This happened at 3 or 4 in the morning. Is it really judgmental saying nothing good can generally happen at a night club that early in the morning? You can have all the good attention in the world. But Scripture says to not put yourself in those types of situations for a reason.
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Siberian_Khatru
Guest
A
Abing
Guest
The funny thing is, Christians talk about winning the lost. It's touted as the Brass Ring of Christianity.
But the catch is, Christians expect that all the lost must come to church (or only other Christian-approved places) in order to be saved. Too bad for anyone else who happens to be wandering around in non-Christian-approved places, or for people who have been deeply hurt by supposedly Godly people and are deathly afraid of anything having to do with organized religion. I'm always amused by the fact that Christians somehow seem to expect the lost to come to them instead of the other way around, which is an example that Jesus Himself gave.
I think that as others have noted, you have to know yourself and your own intentions. I have one story in particular I'd like to tell, but it's fairly long and I'm not sure it would catch anyone's interest, so I'll save it for another time.
I will say though that I was involved with a church that wanted to start a group that went to such places just talk to people, get to know them, and, if it seemed to go in that direction, invite them to church. I was very excited about this but unfortunately, the group never took hold, probably because of many traditional Christians who lived and died by the "Never Set Foot In Such a Place, Ever" Creed.
Now I'm certainly not advocating going to nightclubs if you have a problem with drinking, the party life, or going to such places. It's all about knowing your limits and boundaries. If you know those places are trouble for you personally, don't go. I'm also not saying we have to go to such places in order to win the lost or that we can excuse reckless behavior every weekend by trying to call it working in the missions field. But God may have purpose for a Christian who goes to such a place.
In 6 years of college (4 undergrad, 2 grad), I can count on both hands the number of times I went to clubs, and the primary reason I was asked was to be the DD (designated non-drinker who gets people home safely.) I've never been much of a drinker and people go back and forth between teasing me to bits and asking me to cart them around.
Now I know some Christians will say, "You should never endorse their evil, sinful behavior to begin with!!! Why go to a place like that with them and encourage such heathen behavior!!" Well for one thing, I tend to like the music at clubs. And, every now and then, if I can bury myself in the midst of a crowd, I even like to dance.
One time I went there was a girl in our group who wanted to go home with some random guy she met at the club. I told her, "No way. We all came here together, we're all leaving together." It wasn't easy to stand up to her, as she and I both had very strong personalities. But, sometimes people who put up a fight are actually waiting, and even hoping, for someone to make the effort to fight with them a little. I told her, "If you go off with this guy and something bad happens to you, there's no way I'm going to carry that around on my conscience (when I have a chance to do something about it.)" Needless to say, we all left together and at the same time that night.
People are going to do what they're going to do, regardless of what our own opinion, and I'll be the first to admit there's a fine line between enabling and taking a stand.
But I believe God had a purpose in my going along that night (I usually decline so many times that they just stop asking.) I can't always prevent or protest what people might decide to do. But my hope is that maybe someday the people I went with will look back and say, "When I was young and making bad decisions, a Christian cared about me enough to look out for me even during my worst times. I want to know more about why they believe the way they do so I can do that for someone else, too."
But the catch is, Christians expect that all the lost must come to church (or only other Christian-approved places) in order to be saved. Too bad for anyone else who happens to be wandering around in non-Christian-approved places, or for people who have been deeply hurt by supposedly Godly people and are deathly afraid of anything having to do with organized religion. I'm always amused by the fact that Christians somehow seem to expect the lost to come to them instead of the other way around, which is an example that Jesus Himself gave.
I think that as others have noted, you have to know yourself and your own intentions. I have one story in particular I'd like to tell, but it's fairly long and I'm not sure it would catch anyone's interest, so I'll save it for another time.
I will say though that I was involved with a church that wanted to start a group that went to such places just talk to people, get to know them, and, if it seemed to go in that direction, invite them to church. I was very excited about this but unfortunately, the group never took hold, probably because of many traditional Christians who lived and died by the "Never Set Foot In Such a Place, Ever" Creed.
Now I'm certainly not advocating going to nightclubs if you have a problem with drinking, the party life, or going to such places. It's all about knowing your limits and boundaries. If you know those places are trouble for you personally, don't go. I'm also not saying we have to go to such places in order to win the lost or that we can excuse reckless behavior every weekend by trying to call it working in the missions field. But God may have purpose for a Christian who goes to such a place.
In 6 years of college (4 undergrad, 2 grad), I can count on both hands the number of times I went to clubs, and the primary reason I was asked was to be the DD (designated non-drinker who gets people home safely.) I've never been much of a drinker and people go back and forth between teasing me to bits and asking me to cart them around.
Now I know some Christians will say, "You should never endorse their evil, sinful behavior to begin with!!! Why go to a place like that with them and encourage such heathen behavior!!" Well for one thing, I tend to like the music at clubs. And, every now and then, if I can bury myself in the midst of a crowd, I even like to dance.
One time I went there was a girl in our group who wanted to go home with some random guy she met at the club. I told her, "No way. We all came here together, we're all leaving together." It wasn't easy to stand up to her, as she and I both had very strong personalities. But, sometimes people who put up a fight are actually waiting, and even hoping, for someone to make the effort to fight with them a little. I told her, "If you go off with this guy and something bad happens to you, there's no way I'm going to carry that around on my conscience (when I have a chance to do something about it.)" Needless to say, we all left together and at the same time that night.
People are going to do what they're going to do, regardless of what our own opinion, and I'll be the first to admit there's a fine line between enabling and taking a stand.
But I believe God had a purpose in my going along that night (I usually decline so many times that they just stop asking.) I can't always prevent or protest what people might decide to do. But my hope is that maybe someday the people I went with will look back and say, "When I was young and making bad decisions, a Christian cared about me enough to look out for me even during my worst times. I want to know more about why they believe the way they do so I can do that for someone else, too."
Gotta disagree with you on this one seoulsearch.
Mind you, it depends on the place. "Pub," "bar" and even "bowling alley" can mean different things in different places, even in the next town over. In one town it means a seedy dive where people go to get drunk and hang out with other people who are drunk. In another place it's a lot like the bar in "Cheers," just a place where friends hang out.
But assuming we are talking about the seedy dive version, I have to disagree about going there to witness. Kinda like hanging out in a Linux chatroom to talk about how great Windows is, or going to a Chevy dealership to tell everyone how much you like Ford. People go there for a reason that is not only different, it is diametrically opposed to christianity. To go there to witness to people is basically asking for an argument.
Do they need God? Assuredly. Will they come to church to find Him? Probably not. Can you talk to them anywhere besides the bar? I'm assuming they don't spend every moment of every day there... every bar has to close sometime.
Mind you, it depends on the place. "Pub," "bar" and even "bowling alley" can mean different things in different places, even in the next town over. In one town it means a seedy dive where people go to get drunk and hang out with other people who are drunk. In another place it's a lot like the bar in "Cheers," just a place where friends hang out.
But assuming we are talking about the seedy dive version, I have to disagree about going there to witness. Kinda like hanging out in a Linux chatroom to talk about how great Windows is, or going to a Chevy dealership to tell everyone how much you like Ford. People go there for a reason that is not only different, it is diametrically opposed to christianity. To go there to witness to people is basically asking for an argument.
Do they need God? Assuredly. Will they come to church to find Him? Probably not. Can you talk to them anywhere besides the bar? I'm assuming they don't spend every moment of every day there... every bar has to close sometime.
J
jeremyPJ
Guest
I've always been someone who thinks a bit outside the box, which doesn't tend to be very popular.
I'm not saying, go to a seedy bar and try to set up a church.
But if someone asked me if I wanted to go with them sometime, I just might say, "Sure, why not?" You never know who you might wind up talking to and what your conversation might turn into. A lot of people at those places are trying to drown out sorrows and sins from the past, and they just might be open to talking about spiritual things.
A long time ago, there was a new place in my hometown called, "The Player's Club" and I went a couple times with some friends from work. One time I wound up talking to a guy whose wife of 8 years had just left him, and he was trying to drink her away. Another time I wound up sitting in the back of the bar talking to a guy about life, death, and God (he was a pastor's son, and had been running from God his entire life, especially when his fiancee died.) This in itself is a story... Maybe for another post.
In the 13 years I lived back in that area (after moving away from college), those are the only two times I can remember going to a club, so I'm definitely not a regular by any means. But sometimes in those situations, people are at their most vulnerable, and they just might be open to talking about God more than any other time.
Never mind me though, as I'm a little off the rocker as it is. I'm mostly an introvert who can sometimes masquerade as an extrovert, and I like talking to people in unconventional settings because it's often more real with less small talk. If you give me a choice between serving at a prison or a children's church, I'll most likely choose the prison every time.
Nothing against kids (they're adorable.) But when you talk to someone about where he left the body and whether he believes God has forgiven him all in the same sentence, things get pretty real, and that keeps my attention levels going a lot longer than reading the same children's Bible story 4 times.
Same thing at the bar (but maybe not quite as dramatic)--some of the conversations might be uncomfortable but they're real, and I handle that a lot better than talking about the weather at church picnics. It's just the way I'm built.
Well that's somewhat different. Your first post, (maybe it was just me but) I got the impression you were advocating going to a bar to witness to people. Thanks for clarifying that.
Also, it reminds me of... wait for it... a song! Surprised?
[video=youtube;3xRy8zx878w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xRy8zx878w[/video]
Also, it reminds me of... wait for it... a song! Surprised?
[video=youtube;3xRy8zx878w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xRy8zx878w[/video]