Dr. Charles Stanley

[dcontroversal]

Discernment:

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Your point?

 

[Jabberjaw]

They were not baptized figuratively. They were baptized literally into moses

Why does everyone want to make a figure of everything?

they were actually baptized "immersed" into Moses? explain to me how all those people fit "into" Moses?

 

[dcontroversal]

yes, it is what scripture says

It says they were LITERALLY baptised into moses.

So why are yuo making it figurative? When it is literal?

You do remember Mr. Twisty right.....substitute Miss......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You ignore Heb 11:8 that says "by faith Abraham obeyed", it was Abraham's "obedience" :

 Hebrews 11:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

Abraham was told to "go out to the place" and by "faith" he "obeyed" God and it was accounted to him righteousness.

Just as we today by "faith" must "obey" the "Gospel" to be accounted righteous.

We are not talking about hebrews, we are talking about Romans 4.

Romans 4 says he was saved by faith apart from works. Else he would have something to boast about.

Hebrews 11 says what he did BECAUSE of the faith which saved him (what occured after)

Why are you wishing to place these works of abraham on his salvation? So he can boast of his own salvation and earn the reward?

 

[MsLimpet]

Your point?

No point, Sir. Agreeing with your post.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You do remember Mr. Twisty right.....substitute Miss......

lol. Yeah,

I have borrowed your term a few times, I hope you do not mind.

where ya been bro. Have missed ya!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

they were actually baptized "immersed" into Moses? explain to me how all those people fit "into" Moses?

Placed into union with moses.. You do understand that is a possible interpretation of the greek word used do you not?

Try not to get your doctrine from a word which is not even native to the english language, but only a transliteration. To interpret the transliteration we can ONLy interpret the word from which it was transliterated from.

They were placed into moses, Moses being the head

We are placed into Christ Christ being the head.

no immersion in water involved.

 

[Jabberjaw]

We are not talking about hebrews, we are talking about Romans 4.

Romans 4 says he was saved by faith apart from works. Else he would have something to boast about.

Hebrews 11 says what he did BECAUSE of the faith which saved him (what occured after)

Why are you wishing to place these works of abraham on his salvation? So he can boast of his own salvation and earn the reward?

You keep running to Romans 4 where Paul was rebuking the Jews that were keeping the Law of Moses (Paul here called the Law of Moses "works")

The Law of Moses (or "works" as Paul calls it here) is works of merit, NOT the same works of Abraham, you should be in Hebrews.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Placed into union with moses.. You do understand that is a possible interpretation of the greek word used do you not?

Try not to get your doctrine from a word which is not even native to the english language, but only a transliteration. To interpret the transliteration we can ONLy interpret the word from which it was transliterated from.

They were placed into moses, Moses being the head

We are placed into Christ Christ being the head.

no immersion in water involved.

Give me a Lexicon that interprets Baptizo as "in union with"

 

[VCO]

Because there is one baptism that saves Eph 4:5, can you enter the kingdom with sin?

Let's see now, HOW MUCH OF YOUR SIN WAS FUTURE, WHEN IT WAS PAID IN FULL ON THE CROSS?

Technically, there is only ONE sin that was not PAID FOR ON THE CROSS.

That is blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit, (which is bringing you to Repentance to receive Jesus Christ as LORD), totally rejecting the facts about Christ that the Holy Spirit was trying to use to bring about the conversion of that individual.

What about those who NEVER heard the name of Jesus Christ?

Colossians 1:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible*, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church*; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
Romans 1:18-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For God’s wrath is revealed* from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth*,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made.*
As a result, people are without excuse.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God* or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.

*That is why theories such as Evolution are so extremely dangerous, and even those who deny the DEITY of Jesus Christ, need to take this WARNING OF HIS WRATH, very serious.

 

[dcontroversal]

lol. Yeah,

I have borrowed your term a few times, I hope you do not mind.

where ya been bro. Have missed ya!

Oh been building a (armored) chicken coop as a buddy of mine gave me 20 to 30 chickens hahaha and seeing how I live in the woods......I had to make it coon, possum, rat, snake, fox proof hahah....weaving chicken wire together with wire is no funnnnnnnnnnn for real!...Don't mind the use of the phrase as I have laughed a few times when I read your usage of it

 

[Jabberjaw]

But Israel was still baptized to Moses through the Cloud (which was Christ) AND in the Red Sea.

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

We can find probably 6 or 7 baptisms in the whole bible, but there is only one saving baptism :

Ephesians 4:5 (NKJV)
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

and Peter said is it by water :

1 Peter 3:20-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

 

[dcontroversal]

No point, Sir. Agreeing with your post.

Cool....it is a rainy lazy day here in Missouri and I am bordering on lethargic because of the rain hahahah had to drink a double French Vanilla Cappucino with sugar to wake up and understand your point...HAHAHA Thanks MI Amiga

 

[MsLimpet]

yes, it is what scripture says

It says they were LITERALLY baptised into moses.

So why are yuo making it figurative? When it is literal?

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the Heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat, both the Earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.” Now, just keep that in mind. In 2 Peter 3:10 the Bible says figuratively speaking that the Lord is coming back like a what? Like “a thief in the night”. Okay. Now let’s go to 2 Corinthians 11:8. 2 Corinthians 11:8. And Paul, in talking about working with these different churches and congregations, he says that “I robbed other churches, taking wages from them to minister to you.” So we’ve got the Lord figuratively coming back like a thief in the night, and we have Paul that is figuratively robbing from other churches.

So that’s figurative language, so I guess we can go out and be thieves and start robbing from other churches and other individuals because we read in the Bible figuratively how the Lord is coming back like a thief and Paul robbed from other churches. You see how ridiculous that is? Because we understand,

2 Peter 3:10 and 2 Corinthians 11:8. How come you can’t understand that with the book of Revelation and understand that that, too, is nothing more than figurative language? And I will make the point one more time. Figurative language does not and cannot alone authorize a literal practice.

 

[Jabberjaw]

Let's see now, HOW MUCH OF YOUR SIN WAS FUTURE, WHEN IT WAS PAID IN FULL ON THE CROSS?

Technically, there is only ONE sin that was not PAID FOR ON THE CROSS.

That is blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit, (which is bringing you to Repentance to receive Jesus Christ as LORD), totally rejecting the facts about Christ that the Holy Spirit was trying to use to bring about the conversion of that individual.

What about those who NEVER heard the name of Jesus Christ?

Colossians 1:16-18 (HCSB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] For everything was created by Him, in heaven and on earth, the visible and the invisible*, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities— all things have been created through Him and for Him.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] He is before all things, and by Him all things hold together.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] He is also the head of the body, the church*; He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He might come to have first place in everything.
Romans 1:18-21 (HCSB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For God’s wrath is revealed* from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth*,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] For His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen since the creation of the world, being understood through what He has made.*
As a result, people are without excuse.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For though they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God* or show gratitude. Instead, their thinking became nonsense, and their senseless minds were darkened.

*That is why theories such as Evolution are so extremely dangerous, and even those who deny the DEITY of Jesus Christ, need to take this WARNING OF HIS WRATH, very serious.

So according to you, Jesus died so we can live anyway we want to, there is no longer any such thing as sin, it was washed away with his blood once and for all and we are all saved, nothing we can do to change that,

is that what you're saying?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Give me a Lexicon that interprets Baptizo as "in union with"

what do you think it means to be immersed into??

Does it say they were baptized INTO MOSES or not.

You do understand the laws of language between a verb and the subject do you not?

Baptize is the verb, Moses is the subject.

what else could it mean?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We can find probably 6 or 7 baptisms in the whole bible, but there is only one saving baptism :

Ephesians 4:5 (NKJV)
one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

and Peter said is it by water :

1 Peter 3:20-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

so water trumps the baptism of jesus.

ok thanks..

good luck!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Cool....it is a rainy lazy day here in Missouri and I am bordering on lethargic because of the rain hahahah had to drink a double French Vanilla Cappucino with sugar to wake up and understand your point...HAHAHA Thanks MI Amiga

raining cats and dogs here also. I have been baptized ten time over today HA HA!!

 

[VCO]

Placed into union with moses.. You do understand that is a possible interpretation of the greek word used do you not?

Try not to get your doctrine from a word which is not even native to the english language, but only a transliteration. To interpret the transliteration we can ONLy interpret the word from which it was transliterated from.

They were placed into moses, Moses being the head

We are placed into Christ Christ being the head.

no immersion in water involved.

But being placed under the leadership of Moses (into Moses) did not equal Salvation, where placed into Christ does equal Salvation. Perhaps that is part of what it means by this verse:

Hebrews 7:22 (HCSB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] So Jesus has also become the guarantee of a better covenant.

You might add to that no immersion in water comment:

1 Peter 3:20 (GW)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] They are like those who disobeyed long ago in the days of Noah when God waited patiently while Noah built the ship. In this ship a few people—eight in all—were saved by water.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the Heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat, both the Earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.” Now, just keep that in mind. In 2 Peter 3:10 the Bible says figuratively speaking that the Lord is coming back like a what? Like “a thief in the night”. Okay. Now let’s go to 2 Corinthians 11:8. 2 Corinthians 11:8. And Paul, in talking about working with these different churches and congregations, he says that “I robbed other churches, taking wages from them to minister to you.” So we’ve got the Lord figuratively coming back like a thief in the night, and we have Paul that is figuratively robbing from other churches.

So that’s figurative language, so I guess we can go out and be thieves and start robbing from other churches and other individuals because we read in the Bible figuratively how the Lord is coming back like a thief and Paul robbed from other churches. You see how ridiculous that is? Because we understand,

2 Peter 3:10 and 2 Corinthians 11:8. How come you can’t understand that with the book of Revelation and understand that that, too, is nothing more than figurative language? And I will make the point one more time. Figurative language does not and cannot alone authorize a literal practice.

Scripture says they were BAPTIZED (verb to be fully immersed, overwhelemed, or placed into) Moses.

Why would you take a literal things and make it a symbole. when we are not directed to?

How was abraham saved, when was he baptised? And yes, He was baptized into CHrist. or else he is not in heaven