Dr. Charles Stanley

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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#181
#181
Jabberjaw said:
Abraham was saved by the blood of Christ, just like us, and how did you come in contact of that blood of Christ?
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the same way he did.

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, [SUP]6 [/SUP]just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
 
J

john832

Senior Member
#182
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#182
Jabberjaw said:
  1. Where in the whole Gospel, can you show me anyone but the Apostles, or the house of Cornelius was baptized by the HS
  2. Where does say anyone including the Apostles, or house of Cornelius were "saved" by the baptism of the HS

Peter says "water saves us" :

1 Peter 3:20-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP]who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. [SUP]21 [/SUP]There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
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Israel going through the Red Sea was also a type of baptism...

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#183
#183
Jabberjaw said:
quite simple, here is one water conversion :

 Acts 22:16 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'
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so John the baptist lied to probably thousands of people when he said Jesus would baptize them with the HS. And he actually meant peter would baptize them to wash them?

Taking one verse is not going to prove your point. Far to many people were washed BEFORE they were baptised in water to take this one verse and prove they all had to be.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#184
#184
john832 said:
Israel going through the Red Sea was also a type of baptism...

1Co 10:1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
1Co 10:3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
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Yep.

The same rock. Which was Christ. NOT water.
 
VCO

VCO

Senior Member
#186
Oct 14, 2013
11,984
4,604
113
#186
MsLimpet said:
Then that "repented" sinner has to obey the rest of God's commands. Hear the gospel, repent, confess and be baptized.
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Not quite right, but close. A genuinely repenting sinner will WANT TO OBEY, as an act of reciprocating LOVE for GOD and the Forgiveness HE provided. A lack of the desire to obey is a good indication that the Repentance and Love for GOD is not genuine.

John 14:15 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
 
doseofreality

doseofreality

Banned
#187
Dec 9, 2013
753
5
0
#187
Jabberjaw said:
There are some hard verses in the bible, but those that are required for salvation are perfectly clear when read without putting man made doctrine along side of their bible, or in other words using some supposed learn man/men telling them what the bible really means.

the Devil himself is a scholar, he quotes scripture, he told Eve what God really meant.

One needs to stay in the bible, and the bible only, and pray for the wisdom James says God says he will give us to understand what we need to know :

 James 1:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
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From christian perspective I understand what you mean. However, back to my point, some (not all) "man made" doctrines are based on the bible. To refute them you also use the bible.

Logically this means either the bible has inherit contradictions or everyone is wrong about their own interpretations in some way or another.

Of course you will not admit than the bible may have contradictions, so that leaves you with admitting you may be wrong about your interpretation.
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#188
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#188
eternally-gratefull said:
the same way he did.

What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh?[SUP][a][/SUP] [SUP]2 [/SUP]For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][b][/SUP] [SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, [SUP]6 [/SUP]just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

[SUP]7 [/SUP]“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Blessed is the man to whom the Lord shall not impute sin.”
Click to expand...
Again you cannot get your head out of the Law of Moses, Abraham was saved by his righteous works, also known as "obedience", Abraham "obeyed" God which was accounted to him Righteousness, for us today, the same as then, we must "obey God", and God said "Hear, Believe, Repent, Confess, and be baptized.
 
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john832

Senior Member
#189
May 31, 2013
11,365
186
63
#189
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#190
#190
john832 said:
But Israel was still baptized to Moses through the Cloud (which was Christ) AND in the Red Sea.

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
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yep. And who did this? God or man?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#191
#191
Jabberjaw said:
Again you cannot get your head out of the Law of Moses, Abraham was saved by his righteous works, also known as "obedience", Abraham "obeyed" God which was accounted to him Righteousness, for us today, the same as then, we must "obey God", and God said "Hear, Believe, Repent, Confess, and be baptized.
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No.

You totally ignored romans 4. it does not say he obeyed God.

It says he had faith in God. If he was saved by obeying, then he was saved by works.

His obedience was a direct affect of his faith, and his trust in God;. But he was saved BEFORE he did one work.





 
M

MsLimpet

Guest
#192
#192
john832 said:
But Israel was still baptized to Moses through the Cloud (which was Christ) AND in the Red Sea.

1Co 10:2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
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and were all baptized unto Moses—It brought them into a relationship to Moses they had never sustained before. That is, into his undisputed control over their movements. Up to the very moment of that baptism this control was still disputed by Pharaoh. They were saved by that baptism from his hands and passed under the leadership of Moses. True they were baptized figuratively in the cloud and in the sea, yet at the same time, but passed out of Pharaoh into Moses. They were committed to his leadership as men now by baptism are consecrated to the leadership of Jesus Christ, and this transition into Moses by an act quite similar to baptism.


in the cloud and in the sea;—Those who passed through the sea did not have water sprinkled or poured upon them. The cloud was not a rain cloud, but one of smoke, that presented at night an appearance of fire and by day a cloud to guide them. (see Ex. 13:21-22) The water from the sea did not wet them, for a strong east wind blew the waters back and congealed them, and they went over on dry land. (Ex. 15:8) In this passage the whole body of people were hidden, enclosed, covered by the sea and the cloud, [prefiguring the double process of submersion and emersion in baptism]. They were baptized in these. "The waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left. Jehovah saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians." (Ex. 14:29, 30)
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#193
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#193
doseofreality said:
From christian perspective I understand what you mean. However, back to my point, some (not all) "man made" doctrines are based on the bible. To refute them you also use the bible.
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any doctrine other than the doctrine of Christ is to be refuted:

 2 John 1:9 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.

If they are not of the doctrine of Christ we are to "mark them" :

Romans 16:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
 
T

The_highwayman

Guest
#194
#194
MsLimpet said:
"The stone" in this quotation refers to Christ. (Psalm 118:22-25.) It is a figure taken from the choosing of stones for a building. (Dan. 2:45; Acts 4:11; Eph.2:20; 1 Pet. 2:7.) The husbandmen have become the builders of the spiritual temple; they refuse to lay a foundation on faith in Christ; they reject him, and hope to go on in their work without them. "The head of the corner," the cornerstone, is the principal one in the foundation.


Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken away from you.—This is one of the clearest prophecies of the change of covenant to be found in any of the records of the gospel. The kingdom of God, the church, the vineyard, the cornerstone, all these represent the idea of the gospel economy. It should be taken from the Jews, who so persistently rejected Jesus and was to be given to the Gentiles who would bring "forth the fruits thereof." The Jews were God's chosen people; because they had all the advantages and rejected them, these advantages are to be given to the Gentiles.The Gentiles become the chosen people of God. (1 Pet. 2:4-10.)
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so you follow the false teaching of replacement theology as well.....
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#195
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,396
113
#195
I never really watch T.V. preachers and there was one old dude that I used to listen to on the way to work about 14 years ago and I liked some of what he said, but did not agree with everything he taught....I think his name was J. Vernon Mcghee....like I said...didn't agree with everything he said, but I liked some of what he said.....He is probably the only dude that I have ever listened to for about a year or so back in 2000-2001.
 
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MsLimpet

Guest
#196
#196
dcontroversal said:
I never really watch T.V. preachers and there was one old dude that I used to listen to on the way to work about 14 years ago and I liked some of what he said, but did not agree with everything he taught....I think his name was J. Vernon Mcghee....like I said...didn't agree with everything he said, but I liked some of what he said.....He is probably the only dude that I have ever listened to for about a year or so back in 2000-2001.
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Discernment:

1 Corinthians 2:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#197
#197
MsLimpet said:
and were all baptized unto Moses—It brought them into a relationship to Moses they had never sustained before. That is, into his undisputed control over their movements. Up to the very moment of that baptism this control was still disputed by Pharaoh. They were saved by that baptism from his hands and passed under the leadership of Moses. True they were baptized figuratively in the cloud and in the sea, yet at the same time, but passed out of Pharaoh into Moses. They were committed to his leadership as men now by baptism are consecrated to the leadership of Jesus Christ, and this transition into Moses by an act quite similar to baptism.


in the cloud and in the sea;—Those who passed through the sea did not have water sprinkled or poured upon them. The cloud was not a rain cloud, but one of smoke, that presented at night an appearance of fire and by day a cloud to guide them. (see Ex. 13:21-22) The water from the sea did not wet them, for a strong east wind blew the waters back and congealed them, and they went over on dry land. (Ex. 15:8) In this passage the whole body of people were hidden, enclosed, covered by the sea and the cloud, [prefiguring the double process of submersion and emersion in baptism]. They were baptized in these. "The waters were a wall unto them on their right hand, and on their left. Jehovah saved Israel that day out of the hand of the Egyptians." (Ex. 14:29, 30)
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They were not baptized figuratively. They were baptized literally into moses

Why does everyone want to make a figure of everything?
 
Jabberjaw

Jabberjaw

Senior Member
#199
Mar 21, 2014
1,039
7
38
#199
eternally-gratefull said:
No.

You totally ignored romans 4. it does not say he obeyed God.

It says he had faith in God. If he was saved by obeying, then he was saved by works.

His obedience was a direct affect of his faith, and his trust in God;. But he was saved BEFORE he did one work.
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You ignore Heb 11:8 that says "by faith Abraham obeyed", it was Abraham's "obedience" :

 Hebrews 11:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP]By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.

Abraham was told to "go out to the place" and by "faith" he "obeyed" God and it was accounted to him righteousness.

Just as we today by "faith" must "obey" the "Gospel" to be accounted righteous.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#200
#200
MsLimpet said:
Because that is what scripture says.
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yes, it is what scripture says

It says they were LITERALLY baptised into moses.

So why are yuo making it figurative? When it is literal?
 
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