Dysfunctional Faith-Alone justification

[legion]

I have been speaking about how to live under the New Covenant, which involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on our hearts (Jeremiah 31:33),

Therein is your problem, It was not the torah [old covenant] (that was only for Israel) and it was only for a time, until Jesus came and ushered in a NEW COVENANT(Grace), NOT LIKE YOUR (Israels) FOREFATHERS. You dont even understand the verse you are trying to debate me with. Jesus is God, and he wrote HIS LAW (grace) in our heart... Second it wasn't eaccepted byIsrael first because they rejected him, so it was given to the gentiles to cause Israel to be jealous and come to Jesus.

Again, you do not understand the old covenant, and you do not understand the new covenant. Nor do you understand what Jesus did on the cross. You are in bondage to the law....

 

[2Christ]

Jesus arrived to visit His friends!

Zechariah 13:6
And one will say to him, ‘What are these wounds between your arms?’ Then he will say, ‘Those with which I was wounded
the house of my friends.’

Jesus arrived to visit the house of David.

Jesus was not sent to the Gentiles.

Matthew 15:23-24
But He did not answer her (Gentile woman) a word. And His disciples came and implored Him, saying, “Send her away,
because she keeps shouting ". But He answered and said, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

At this time the Gentiles were definitely not in the covenant (Exodus 24) to obey the Torah.

The apostles did not associate with the Gentiles at this time.

The apostles asked Jesus to send her away they were not interested in Gentiles.

So when were the Gentiles included into the old covenant to obey the Torah (Exodus 24)?



So what, synagogues preach Moses?

Is that all you have?

That is inference not a formal command from God that Gentiles are under the law and not under grace!

You cannot be under two covenants at the same time if you are a Gentile.

I need the evidence from the scripture that Gentiles were included in Exodus 24.

Your trying to infer that Gentiles are under the law without any formal statement by God in the scripture.

You are asking for something Scripture never requires. Gentiles do not have to be formally inserted into Exodus 24 before they can be expected to obey God. God judged Gentile nations long before Sinai and held them accountable for sin. Nineveh repented, Sodom was judged, and Egypt was judged. If Gentiles were under no law, on what basis were they judged?

You quote Matthew 15:24, but you stop before the end of the story. Jesus later told the same Gentile woman:
"O woman, great is thy faith: be it done unto thee even as thou wilt." (Matthew 15:28 ASV)

His earthly ministry began absolutely with Israel, but His mission was always larger. Jesus Himself said:
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and they shall become one flock, one shepherd." (John 10:16 ASV)

And after His resurrection He commanded: "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations... teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20 ASV)

All nations means Gentiles too. You ask for a formal statement from God. Here it is from the prophets: "Also the foreigners that join themselves to Jehovah, to minister unto him, and to love the name of Jehovah, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from profaning it, and holdeth fast my covenant; even them will I bring to my holy mountain." (Isaiah 56:6-7 ASV)

God Himself speaks of foreigners who join themselves to Him and hold fast His covenant. You say the apostles were not interested in Gentiles. Yet Peter said: "God made choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel, and believe." (Acts 15:7 ASV) That was not Paul's idea. Peter said God chose him for that work.

You dismiss Acts 15:21, but James included it for a reason: "For Moses from generations of old hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath." (Acts 15:21 ASV)

The four requirements were not the whole faith. They were immediate necessities for new converts. James expected them to continue learning. And you speak of grace versus law as though Jesus taught such a separation. He did not. Jesus said:

"If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments." (John 14:15 ASV) and: "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21 ASV)

So the question is not, "When were Gentiles added to Exodus 24?"
The real question is, "Did God invite Gentiles to become His people and teach them to obey Him?" Jesus, the prophets, Peter, and James all answer yes.

if you continue to twist scripture for your own ends, you will have problems on the day of judgment, remember a name can be blotted out from the book of life. What we think is irrelevant what matters are the words of Jesus, not one verse picked one at a time but all he did say during his ministry, understood as a whole. Everything Jesus said is important, we have his written words we should listen to him. His words are eternal life, just remember this the next time you contradict what Jesus said.

 

[2Christ]

God had a plan regarding the Gentiles but the Gentiles were not included until years after the resurrection.

Joel 2:32
And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord will be delivered.

Acts 2:21
And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

Romans 10:13
For “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”

Are you saying that Gentiles that call on the name of the Lord are not saved?

No, I never said that. You are arguing against something I did not write.

I quoted Matthew 8:11 to show that Jesus Himself announced, before the resurrection, that many from the east and west would enter the kingdom with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. That proves the inclusion of Gentiles was already part of His teaching.

"And I say unto you, that many shall come from the east and the west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 8:11 ASV)

You responded by asking whether I am saying Gentiles who call on the Lord are not saved. I said no such thing. In fact, I agree that Gentiles who call upon the Lord are saved. The verses you quoted from Joel, Acts, and Romans support that truth, and they do not contradict what Jesus said in Matthew 8:11. They confirm it.

So you have not answered the verse. Instead, you changed my argument into one I never made. Jesus had already spoken of Gentiles coming into the kingdom before the resurrection. That was the point under discussion. Please answer the actual point being made instead of fighting an imaginary one.

 

[2Christ]

If you want to observe the written code then you have no option but to obey the Sabbath law. I really don't know why believers don't understand the place of the law when God's word is so clear. Anyway, it's your life before God. I've answered your questions as best I can.

Do you see and understand the difference between the way the pharisee followed the "Law" and the way Jesus explained how to follow the commandments? Is what Jesus asked us to do have any importance at all? to me its all that matters. read Matthew chapter 23. see below a lot to learn from what jesus said;

Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees​

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples:

Mat 23:2 “The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.

Mat 23:3 So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

Mat 23:4 They tie up heavy, burdensome loads and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

Mat 23:5 All their deeds are done for men to see. They broaden their phylacteries and lengthen their tassels.

Mat 23:6 They love the places of honor at banquets, the chief seats in the synagogues,

Mat 23:7 the greetings in the marketplaces, and the title of ‘Rabbi’ by which they are addressed.

Mat 23:8 But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Mat 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

Mat 23:10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ.

Mat 23:11 The greatest among you shall be your servant.

Mat 23:12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Mat 23:13 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let in those who wish to enter.

Mat 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You traverse land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

Mat 23:16 Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’

Mat 23:17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes it sacred?

Mat 23:18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.’

Mat 23:19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes it sacred?

Mat 23:20 So then, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.

Mat 23:21 And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the One who dwells in it.

Mat 23:22 And he who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the One who sits on it.

Mat 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You pay tithes of mint, dill, and cumin. But you have disregarded the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Mat 23:24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

Mat 23:25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.

Mat 23:26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, so that the outside may become clean as well.

Mat 23:27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside, but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of impurity.

Mat 23:28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to be righteous, but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Mat 23:29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous.

Mat 23:30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’

Mat 23:31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the sons of those who murdered the prophets.

Mat 23:32 Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your fathers.

Mat 23:33 You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the sentence of hell?

Mat 23:34 Because of this, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and others you will flog in your synagogues and persecute in town after town.

Mat 23:35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Mat 23:36 Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.

The pharisee followed the letter of the law with NO love, NO mercy, NO compassion. Jesus explained how to keep the commandments from the heart, first by loving God with all our hearts and strength and second, to love one another. the core of all laws is Love, that is the purpose of the Law.

Remember what JESUS said simply and clearly; " if you love me keep my Commandments " can you blame me for keeping the words of Jesus whom I Love ? Can you?

 

[2Christ]

Indeed. In Matthew 4:15-23, Christ began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and the Torah was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. Christ also set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to the Torah and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6). So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Torah by word and by example and then commissioned his disciples to teach to the nations everything that he taught them (Matthew 28:16-20).

I agree but to me not the whole Torah, Jesus spoke of the commandments mostly and did put a strong emphasis on them, as for the law of Moses it was for another time and linked to his chosen peoples identity. I believe the core of the Law is Love above all else and that it fulfills the requirements, do we ignore the law? NO it is Holy and Just, but we can learn from it and apply what can be applied today, most of the law of Moses serve no purpose today, should we resume sin sacrifice? NO! there is a great wisdom imparted by the O.T. we certainly learn from it it takes time and gentiles cannot be expected to know it all in this evil world, but one day when Christ returns all will change, this is certain.

 

[Soyeong]

So you reject Peter's vision as being from God?

No, though I do reject certain interpretations of his vision and so should you.

 

[Soyeong]

I agree but to me not the whole Torah, Jesus spoke of the commandments mostly and did put a strong emphasis on them, as for the law of Moses it was for another time and linked to his chosen peoples identity. I believe the core of the Law is Love above all else and that it fulfills the requirements, do we ignore the law? NO it is Holy and Just, but we can learn from it and apply what can be applied today, most of the law of Moses serve no purpose today, should we resume sin sacrifice? NO! there is a great wisdom imparted by the O.T. we certainly learn from it it takes time and gentiles cannot be expected to know it all in this evil world, but one day when Christ returns all will change, this is certain.

The only that the Law of Moses can be temporary is if what it teaches us about how to know God through embodying His character traits is also temporary, but God's character traits are eternal. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalm 119:142), therefore all of His righteous laws are also eternal (Psalm 119:160) and the only way that they can be temporary is if God's righteousness is also temporary. Do you believe in the existence of the God who has the character traits that the Law of Moses was given in order to teach us how to embody? God chose Israel for the purpose of sanctifying His name, not so that they would be set apart for its own sake.

The way to love God is by embodying His character traits, such as the way to love justice is by being a doer of justice, the way to love holiness is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth. In other words, the goal of everything that God has instructed in the Law of Moses is to teach us how to love different aspects of His character traits, which is why the Bible repeatedly states in both the OT and the NT that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments, which is why love fulfills the law. If we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit idolatry, murder, adultery, theft, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for the rest of the Law of Moses, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them.

There can be either legitimate or illegitimate reasons for not following certain laws, such as with Deuteronomy 17:18 specifically commanding the king to write a copy of the Torah, so everyone who is not the king has a legitimate reason to not follow that law. The Israelites were given a number of laws that had the condition "when you enter the land..." while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years, so they had a legitimate reason to not follow those laws while they were outside of the land. When the Israelites were exiled to Babylon after the destruction of the 1st Temple, then the condition for their return to the land was to first return to obedience to the Law of Moses, so they had a legitimate reason to follow the laws in regard to Temple practice while there was no Temple. This should not stop us from obeying the laws that we can obey.

 

[ATG]

I disagree:

"Only two options are made: either justification by faith alone without works, Or salvation by works alone."

Save by Grace through faith. It seems some what to force the two position only as if it must be one or the other. What about both ?

I welcome people jumping into the middle of an ongoing argument, but you need to understand the argument first. Try again.

ATG said:
And this is the limited one-sided argument of faith alone justification, that is against any works justifying a man.

Only two options are made: either justification by faith alone without works, Or salvation by works alone.

The one option consistently excluded is that of Scripture: Salvation by faith with works, and justification by works of faith.

Faith alone justifiers only offer the first two gospels, both of which is false. I lastly give the Scripture's gospel, which always comes first with Jesus Christ.

 

[ATG]

I'd rather use the expression the Lord God Jesus Christ, because after the Resurrection the union was complete, and thus the one who sees Him, sees the Father Himself, for the Lord has fully glorified, or made divine, His Human. So, so our God is Jehovah Himself in His Divine Human, that is, Jesus Christ is that the only one "Jehohav our Righteousness".

O Lord. Created christ angels are back again...

It just goes to prove, that isolated sects can pretend to debate certain things of the Bible for a while, but then inevitably must dive into their sole agenda: Pushing their own gospel on others.

Have a reasonable argument going, until the proselytizing arrow must be shot into the mix:

Mat 23:15
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Rev 6:1
And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.

It's the same with Oneness, holiness Pentecostals, 2:38 baptizers, sabbath commandoes, faith aloners, and perhaps even good old circumcision Judaizers...

 

[Gideon300]

Do you see and understand the difference between the way the pharisee followed the "Law" and the way Jesus explained how to follow the commandments? Is what Jesus asked us to do have any importance at all? to me its all that matters. read Matthew chapter 23. see below a lot to learn from what jesus said;

Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees​

Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples:

Mat 23:2 “The scribes and Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat.

Mat 23:3 So practice and observe everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

Mat 23:4 They tie up heavy, burdensome loads and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.

Mat 23:5 All their deeds are done for men to see. They broaden their phylacteries and lengthen their tassels.

Mat 23:6 They love the places of honor at banquets, the chief seats in the synagogues,

Mat 23:7 the greetings in the marketplaces, and the title of ‘Rabbi’ by which they are addressed.

Mat 23:8 But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.

Mat 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.

Mat 23:10 Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ.

Mat 23:11 The greatest among you shall be your servant.

Mat 23:12 For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Mat 23:13 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let in those who wish to enter.

Mat 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You traverse land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

Mat 23:16 Woe to you, blind guides! You say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.’

Mat 23:17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes it sacred?

Mat 23:18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.’

Mat 23:19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes it sacred?

Mat 23:20 So then, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it.

Mat 23:21 And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the One who dwells in it.

Mat 23:22 And he who swears by heaven swears by God’s throne and by the One who sits on it.

Mat 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You pay tithes of mint, dill, and cumin. But you have disregarded the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.

Mat 23:24 You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

Mat 23:25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.

Mat 23:26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, so that the outside may become clean as well.

Mat 23:27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside, but on the inside are full of dead men’s bones and every kind of impurity.

Mat 23:28 In the same way, on the outside you appear to be righteous, but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

Mat 23:29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous.

Mat 23:30 And you say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’

Mat 23:31 So you testify against yourselves that you are the sons of those who murdered the prophets.

Mat 23:32 Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your fathers.

Mat 23:33 You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape the sentence of hell?

Mat 23:34 Because of this, I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and others you will flog in your synagogues and persecute in town after town.

Mat 23:35 And so upon you will come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.

Mat 23:36 Truly I tell you, all these things will come upon this generation.

The pharisee followed the letter of the law with NO love, NO mercy, NO compassion. Jesus explained how to keep the commandments from the heart, first by loving God with all our hearts and strength and second, to love one another. the core of all laws is Love, that is the purpose of the Law.

Remember what JESUS said simply and clearly; " if you love me keep my Commandments " can you blame me for keeping the words of Jesus whom I Love ? Can you?

Do you not realise that the commandments of Lord Jesus are not the Law? There is so much more to the Christian life than a set of rules that no one has obeyed ever anyway. The law came through Moses and was for Israel. Grace and Truth came through Lord Jesus. If all that was required is the Law, then Jesus spoke for no good reason. Where in the 10 commandments does it say. "Sell all you have........" Yet that was what Lord Jesus commanded the rich ruler. Has he said that to you? He has not said that to me.

The law was written on stone, hard, cold and heartless. You can't have a relationship with a stone.

 

[CS1]

I welcome people jumping into the middle of an ongoing argument, but you need to understand the argument first. Try again.

ATG said:
And this is the limited one-sided argument of faith alone justification, that is against any works justifying a man.

Only two options are made: either justification by faith alone without works, Or salvation by works alone.

The one option consistently excluded is that of Scripture: Salvation by faith with works, and justification by works of faith.

Faith alone justifiers only offer the first two gospels, both of which is false. I lastly give the Scripture's gospel, which always comes first with Jesus Christ.

I disagree. Yet i am waiting for one to tell me of the works they do God accept. Those keep saying :


Only two options are made: either justification by faith alone without works, Or salvation by works alone.

The one option consistently excluded is that of Scripture: Salvation by faith with works, and justification by works of faith.


Tell me which work you do.

 

[legion]

Jesus never had to speak of grace as a separate doctrine because He was grace incarnate. Why can't you see this? Do you think Paul invented something new? You keep turning the discussion away from what Jesus Himself taught and back to interpretations about the law and grace.

I agree that God wants more than outward obedience. Jesus taught exactly that. He said that anger is the root of murder, lust is the root of adultery, and that God looks at the heart. But notice what Jesus did: He did not abolish the commandments. He took them deeper.

When Jesus said that hatred is like murder and lust is like adultery, He was not replacing the commandments. He was showing their true spiritual meaning. You say the Law only condemned sinners, yet Jesus said:"If thou wouldest enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17 ASV) And when asked about the greatest commandments, He answered with love for God and love for neighbour. He then said: On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets." (Matthew 22:40 ASV)

The law was not removed. It hangs upon love. Are we allowed to remove these simple commandments on our own when jesus said to keep them? You speak of being led by the Spirit. I agree. But where does the Spirit lead us? Into obedience to God, not away from it. Jesus said:"If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments." (John 14:15 ASV), personally ,how could I not listen to him when he said;
"He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me." (John 14:21 ASV)

The New Covenant is not God lowering His standard. It is God writing His law on the heart so that His people desire to obey Him from within instead of merely obeying outwardly. if the Spirit is leading us, would the Spirit lead us to worship other gods, make idols, dishonor parents, murder, steal, commit adultery, lie, covet, or break the commandments God spoke with His own voice? Of course not.

The difference between us is not whether God wants the heart. We both agree He does. The difference is that I believe what Jesus taught that true obedience begins in the heart and then appears in our actions. The commandments were never the enemy. Sin was the enemy. Grace does not free us from obeying God. Grace frees us from our sins so that we can through Love obey Him.

GOD said from a voice in heaven that was heard by Jesus disciples;

And a voice came from the cloud, saying, “This is My Son, whom I have chosen. Listen to Him!” (Luke 9:35)

First of all Gentiles were never under the law and neither were any Christians so on that basis none of what you're saying makes sense to a Christian group.

Second if you have a blueprint for a building and then somebody builds it and you have the building you don't destroy the blueprint necessarily but it's no longer needed you have the building.

This is the essence of Matthew 5:17 that is so often quoted by people trying to enforce the Mosaic law under the Gentiles. Note that in that verse it says the law and the prophets it's not referring to the Mosaic law specifically it's referring to the entire Old Testament prophecies about Jesus.

So what it is saying is that the Old Testament will not go away because all of the prophecies about Jesus have not come true yet that is the reason it will stay so that the prophecies can be seen as completed. however Jesus did complete the law.

this is the exact same thing with the law once Jesus showed up we no longer needed the law to point us at Jesus

 

[Inquisitor]

We always have to have works whether Old or New Testament for we must labor for the kingdom of God and to be right with Him.

The Bible says charity, love in action, works, is greater than faith.

And faith works by love.

Works of love is greater than faith.

No love then faith is void.

John said do not love in word, neither in tongue, but in deed, works, and in truth.

Love is only valid in works.

We are not saved by works but by faith when we first confess Christ for that is all we can do.

For the works of the Old Testament physical laws or anything we do according to the flesh will give us salvation.

But after we are saved we have to allow the Spirit to lead us to do works of love which love is the fulfilling of the law.

James 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

James 2:25Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

It is obvious we have to have works of love by the Spirit to have faith applied to our life.

1 Corinthians 2:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

Paul said He could have all faith to remove mountains, but if he did not have charity, works, then he is nothing.

Paul said the same thing as James but people want to argue over the 2 as if there is a contradiction.

They do not understand when Paul talks about works and try to carry that throughout their Christian walk after they confessed Christ.

They say faith alone but we have to have works.

Also it is love alone and everything stems from love including faith and love is the fulfilling of the law.

Here is an analysis of the statement based on biblical theology and scripture.

Theological Opinion
The paragraph contains a mix of biblical truths and theological misunderstandings. [1]

• What it gets right: It correctly highlights that genuine faith must produce actions. Love cannot just be spoken; it must be demonstrated through deeds. [1, 2]
• Where it misinterprets: It incorrectly states that we must work "to be right with Him." The Bible teaches that right standing with God (justification) comes through faith alone, not human labor. Works are the result of being right with God, not the cause. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

Supporting Scripture
On Faith and Works

• Ephesians 2:8–9: "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
• James 2:17: "So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

On Love and Deeds

• 1 John 3:18: "Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth."
• Galatians 5:6: "For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love." [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

On Love and Faith

• 1 Corinthians 13:13: "So now faith, hope, and love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love."
• 1 Corinthians 13:2: "And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." [1, 2, 3, 4]

 

[2Christ]

The only that the Law of Moses can be temporary is if what it teaches us about how to know God through embodying His character traits is also temporary, but God's character traits are eternal. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalm 119:142), therefore all of His righteous laws are also eternal (Psalm 119:160) and the only way that they can be temporary is if God's righteousness is also temporary. Do you believe in the existence of the God who has the character traits that the Law of Moses was given in order to teach us how to embody? God chose Israel for the purpose of sanctifying His name, not so that they would be set apart for its own sake.

The way to love God is by embodying His character traits, such as the way to love justice is by being a doer of justice, the way to love holiness is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth. In other words, the goal of everything that God has instructed in the Law of Moses is to teach us how to love different aspects of His character traits, which is why the Bible repeatedly states in both the OT and the NT that the way to love God is by obeying His commandments, which is why love fulfills the law. If we love God and our neighbor, then we won't commit idolatry, murder, adultery, theft, rape, kidnapping, favoritism, and so forth for the rest of the Law of Moses, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on them.

There can be either legitimate or illegitimate reasons for not following certain laws, such as with Deuteronomy 17:18 specifically commanding the king to write a copy of the Torah, so everyone who is not the king has a legitimate reason to not follow that law. The Israelites were given a number of laws that had the condition "when you enter the land..." while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years, so they had a legitimate reason to not follow those laws while they were outside of the land. When the Israelites were exiled to Babylon after the destruction of the 1st Temple, then the condition for their return to the land was to first return to obedience to the Law of Moses, so they had a legitimate reason to follow the laws in regard to Temple practice while there was no Temple. This should not stop us from obeying the laws that we can obey.

You are right that God's character does not change, but that does not mean that every command given for a specific purpose, people, place, or priesthood must always be practiced in the same way. God Himself gave commands that depended on circumstances. A command can be holy and righteous without being universal or eternal in its application.

Jesus summed up the law with love for God and neighbor (Matthew 22:37-40). Love remains , central, eternal, but many regulations served particular purposes in Israel's history and worship.

There are about 613 commandments traditionally counted in the Torah. The Ten Commandments are only a small part of them. Of the remaining laws, a large number cannot be practiced today, and many will not exist even in the Heavenly kingdom because their purpose has already been fulfilled.

Examples:

• About 200 laws concern the Temple, sacrifices, priests, and ritual service. There is no Temple today. Even in the kingdom, sin offerings will not serve the same purpose they did before the sacrifice of Christ. Hebrews speaks of those sacrifices as shadows pointing forward.
• Around 50 laws concern ritual uncleanness, such as purification after contact with the dead, skin diseases, bodily discharges, and the use of the ashes of the red heifer. Several of these require the Temple and priesthood.
• Many laws apply only to ancient Israel as a nation in the land, such as the cities of refuge, dividing tribal inheritances, boundary stones, kings writing their own Torah scroll (Deuteronomy 17:18), and regulations concerning conquest and warfare. These cannot apply to most believers and will have no place when Christ reigns in peace.
• Numerous laws concern slavery and indentured servants. Isaiah foretells that in the Messianic age people will not oppress one another (Isaiah 2:4), so these regulations will no longer be needed.
• Levirate marriage (Deuteronomy 25:5-10) was given to preserve inheritance within Israel. Jesus taught that in the resurrection people neither marry nor are given in marriage (Matthew 22:30), showing that this law has no future application in the age to come.
• Laws concerning divorce certificates (Deuteronomy 24:1-4) were permitted because of the hardness of men's hearts. Jesus said, "from the beginning it hath not been so" (Matthew 19:8 ASV), showing that some Mosaic provisions were concessions, not God's ultimate ideal.
• Laws concerning circumcision on the eighth day, mixed fabrics, tassels, agricultural boundaries, and various civil penalties were tied to Israel's national identity and separation from the nations.

So the question is not whether God's righteousness changes. Of course it does not. The question is whether every law was given for all people, in all places, and for all ages. Scripture itself shows the answer is no.

If every one of the 613 laws were eternally binding in exactly the same way, then believers would have to restore animal sacrifices, appoint Levitical priests, establish cities of refuge, practice levirate marriage, regulate slavery, and reinstate many laws that depend on tribal inheritance and a Temple. Yet even the prophets describe the future kingdom as a time when "they shall beat their swords into plowshares" (Isaiah 2:4 ASV), and Jesus taught that marriage itself does not continue after the resurrection (Matthew 22:30 ASV).

God's character is eternal. His love, justice, holiness, and mercy are eternal. But commands given for sacrifices, priesthood, inheritance, kingship, slavery, and national administration were given for specific purposes. Jesus pointed us back to the heart of the law:

"Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second like unto it is this, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets." (Matthew 22:37-40 ASV)

The foundation is eternal. The shadows and temporary administrations were not. Otherwise, one would have to explain why God Himself gave hundreds of commandments that large parts of humanity have never been able to keep, and why some of them will have no purpose when Christ has fully established His kingdom.

As well we must remember the words of God through the prophets Obedience, mercy, and righteousness always came first. These verses help show that some commands were given for a purpose and were not the ultimate goal.

1 Samuel 15:22 (ASV)

And Samuel said, Hath Jehovah as great delight in burnt-offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of Jehovah? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Psalm 40:6-8 (ASV)

Sacrifice and offering thou hast no delight in; Mine ears hast thou opened: Burnt-offering and sin-offering hast thou not required. Then said I, Lo, I am come; In the roll of the book it is written of me: I delight to do thy will, O my God; Yea, thy law is within my heart.

Psalm 51:16-17 (ASV)

For thou delightest not in sacrifice; else would I give it: Thou hast no pleasure in burnt-offerings. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: A broken and contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.

Hosea 6:6 (ASV)

For I desire goodness, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt-offerings.

Jesus Himself quoted this verse twice (Matthew 9:13; 12:7).

Isaiah 1:11-17 (ASV)

To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith Jehovah: I have had enough of the burnt-offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he-goats... Cease to do evil; Learn to do well; seek justice, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow.

Micah 6:6-8 (ASV)

Wherewith shall I come before Jehovah, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt-offerings, with calves a year old? Will Jehovah be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil?... He hath showed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth Jehovah require of thee, but to do justly, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with thy God?

Jeremiah 7:22-23 (ASV)

For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt-offerings or sacrifices: but this thing I commanded them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people...

These passages show that even within the Old Testament God distinguished between His eternal moral character and ceremonial practices. His justice, mercy, truth, and holiness are eternal, but sacrifices and many ceremonial regulations were means to an end, not the end itself.

Hosea 6:6, Micah 6:8, and Jeremiah 7:22-23 are especially powerful because they make it difficult to argue that every command in the Law of Moses stands on exactly the same level or serves the same purpose for all ages. Jesus Himself directed attention to the weightier matters: love, mercy, justice, and obedience to God.

 

[2Christ]

Do you not realise that the commandments of Lord Jesus are not the Law? There is so much more to the Christian life than a set of rules that no one has obeyed ever anyway. The law came through Moses and was for Israel. Grace and Truth came through Lord Jesus. If all that was required is the Law, then Jesus spoke for no good reason. Where in the 10 commandments does it say. "Sell all you have........" Yet that was what Lord Jesus commanded the rich ruler. Has he said that to you? He has not said that to me.

The law was written on stone, hard, cold and heartless. You can't have a relationship with a stone

Before Jeremiah spoke of the New Covenant, he did not say God would have no law or instruction. He said God would write His law on the heart.

You are again misunderstanding what I wrote. I have never taught that the Christian life is merely following letters written on stone. On the contrary, I believe exactly what God promised through Jeremiah and what Paul himself quoted.

Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, That I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah... I will put my laws into their mind, And on their heart also will I write them: And I will be to them a God, And they shall be to me a people. (Hebrews 8:8,10 ASV)

Paul's point was not that God removed His law, but that He writes it on the heart.

Jeremiah had already foretold this:

But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith Jehovah: I will put my law in their inward parts, and in their heart will I write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. (Jeremiah 31:33 ASV)

Jesus also taught that the Kingdom is like a mustard seed. It grows and will one day fill the earth. We are not yet at its fullness. When Christ returns, Jeremiah's prophecy will reach its complete fulfillment and all shall know the Lord.

I agree that Christianity is far more than a set of rules. It is a relationship with the living Christ. But a relationship with Christ does not mean having no instruction from Him. Jesus said:

If ye love me, ye will keep my commandments. (John 14:15 ASV)

His commandments go far beyond words carved on stone. He taught humility, mercy, forgiveness, love for enemies, generosity, self-denial, and even told the rich ruler to sell what he had because He knew the man's heart, He placed money before God.. He does not give the same personal command to everyone, but He calls everyone to follow Him.

God promised that what was once written on stone would one day be written on the heart.

And Jesus Himself said:

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me. (John 14:21 ASV)

Every one therefore that heareth these words of mine, and doeth them, shall be likened unto a wise man, who built his house upon the rock. (Matthew 7:24 ASV)

The New Covenant is not the absence of God's instruction. It is God's instruction no longer remaining outside of us and followed blindly like automatons ( the pharisees) , but being written within us through our relationship with Christ.

when will you understand this? How many time must I repeat? I explained all this already. Love is the fulfillment of the law not the letter. Do we have the same bible?

 

[Proximus]

It's the same with Oneness, holiness Pentecostals, 2:38 baptizers, sabbath commandoes, faith aloners, and perhaps even good old circumcision Judaizers...

Different churches can have different opinions, and the history shows that one heresy is at times battling with another, or they join against the other ones, encouraging one another to guard against heresies. So, it is not up to whatever a person claims, but how a certain opinion is explained by the rightly collated passages of the Word, and how it agrees with the basic sound reason.

So, if the opinion, interpretation is properly supported by the passages, not of the letter alone, but also the spirit, and is in agreement with the basic sound reason, it is then the doctrinal truth.

Indeed: "And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer."

 

[ATG]

So, the challenge of dysfunctional faith alone justification without works, remains unanswered.

Let's go on:

Those that call themselves Christians are either monergists or synergists. Monergists are those that believe that salvation is initiated and entirely concluded by God.

Of course God does the saving and justifying. Sinners alone can't save and justify themselves with God.

Sinners can only repent of our sins and do good by the grace of God.

God the Father chooses who to save and men's will has nothing to do with being chosen.

Well, this is of course false, since all are called to repentance, but only the few that repent are chosen by God to do His will.

Jhn 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. This he said, signifying what death he should die.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Mat 22:14
For many are called, but few are chosen.

Here perhaps is more dysfunction of faith alone justification without works: Sinners do nothing to be saved, and so God saves and justifies against the will of a person all by Himself alone.

Like an unseen stone falling unawares from the sky, or white bird droppings from on high.

God changes the person chosen by indwelling him with the Holy Spirit which allows for both Father and Son to enter the person's being and fill that person with the same divine love that they share. It is this love for God first and all other's as the person loves himself that results in good works when the person is lead by the Father and Son that reside in him through the Holy Spirit.

Once again, this is the promised common new birth to all that repent for Jesus' sake.

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Synergists are those that believe that salvation takes a combination of God's work and men's will to be saved.

Well, no man can repent against his will, unless it is forced religion, not by grace.

However, since repentance unto life is granted by the grace of God, then repentance is not by man's will alone:

Jhn 1:12
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name. Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And also since doing good is only by the Spirit of God, then once again, no man does God's righteousness by their own will alone:

3 John{1:11}
Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that is doing good is of God: but he that is doing evil hath not seen God.

Titus 3:4
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

And so, while our will must be humbled before God to repent and do His will, God cannot save nor justify against the will of any man: Repentance from doing evil and only doing good must be with a willing heart:

Exo 35:21
And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the LORD'S offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.

1Ch 29:5
And who then is willing to consecrate his service this day unto the LORD?

God does not save nor justify any sinner unwilling to repent and do good. Being made in the image of God is by His willing Spirit.

If the works of men were not personally willing, like the dumb beasts of the field, then God could not judge any person, the same as the dumb beasts.

People may seek to act and be like the brute beasts, but they cannot escape the judgment of God, but only ensure their own destruction:

Jde 1:10
But these speak foolishly of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts.

Christ died for everyone and the Father bestows His grace on everyone, but to be saved, you have to accept it.

The former I understand to be the OSAS Christians, or even the Calvin predeterminants, where they do no nothing nor repent to be saved.

But this one sounds like a Unitarian thing and New Age: Everyone is in fact saved by grace through the death of Jesus Christ alone, and all anyone needs do is 'wake up' to their own new divine state, and have peace and tranquility.

I tend to believe the monergist because of the following scriptures:

It's neither: Not if the first is God saving any man against his will. Nor if the second is man saving himself by his own will.

We humble our own will, and God works with us to do His will:

Phl 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

We cease doing our own will without God, and with God we are willing to do His good pleasure.

Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Psa 110:3
Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Heb 13:18
Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly.

 

[ATG]

By boasting is meant that no human can say in heaven: "I made it", "I made the right decision", " I did the right things", etc.

True, since no one with works to boast of will be resurrected unto life by Jesus Christ.

Boasting is doing works without Christ, and by one's own will alone.

Works excluded from be justified with God, are of our own righteousness, and of the law, without faith toward God.

God's salvation and justification by grace, is only without works without faith, not without works of faith.

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
God does not exclude living by Jesus' faith from being justified by faith: For the just shall live by his faith.

Even faith is a gift from God.

Exactly. Well done. The faith of man to do his own will, and be proud of his works without God, is not the faith that saves the soul and does the will of God.

Only the faith of Jesus Christ is the gift of God that saves the soul. And only them that repent of their own works can receive His faith, and do works glorifying God and not man:

Mat 5:16
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Works that bring glory to God by Jesus Christ, are not excluded from being justified with God, as are excluded the evil works and self-righteousness of men...

Sadly the road to damnation is wide and is paved with people who refuse to give all credit for their salvation to God.

True. God gets the glory for repentance, because being willing to repent for Jesus' sake is also granted by grace.

Acts{11:18}
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the nations granted repentance unto life.

But if any man repents not to be saved, and does nothing of a willing mind and heart, and yet claims justification by his own faith alone; That is a boastful to himself, not from God:

Ps 12:3
The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our words are our own: who is lord over us?

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

It was Jesus who, through the Holy Spirit, brought Lazarus back to life after being dead for 4 days. Lazarus had no part in being brought back to life because he was physically dead. We are spiritually dead, and can not bring ourselves to spiritual life without Jesus through the Holy Spirit.

True. But being physically made to live again from death, without one's will, certainly is not being born again from spiritual death unto life, with our living will.

The analogy is as wrong as the difference between living people with will to do good or evil, and dead people without will to do anything at all.

This adds to the dysfunction of being justification by faith alone without works, as though any living person can be without works, nor will on earth. Only dead bodies in the grave are without will and works.

 

[Soyeong]

Therein is your problem, It was not the torah [old covenant] (that was only for Israel) and it was only for a time, until Jesus came and ushered in a NEW COVENANT(Grace), NOT LIKE YOUR (Israels) FOREFATHERS. You dont even understand the verse you are trying to debate me with. Jesus is God, and he wrote HIS LAW (grace) in our heart... Second it wasn't eaccepted byIsrael first because they rejected him, so it was given to the gentiles to cause Israel to be jealous and come to Jesus.

God's character traits are eternal, so everything that God's covenants teach us about how to know God through embodying His character traits is eternally and cumulatively valid regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalm 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalm 119:160), so anyone who has the goal of knowing God through embodying His righteousness will consider any instructions that God has given for how to do that to be cumulatively valid regardless of which covenant they are under. For instance, being a doer of charity was a way to embody God's righteousness before God made any covenants with man, so that is an eternally valid way to know God. There is nothing that God's covenants teach us about who God is that is only true about God for a time. While it is true that the New Covenant is not like the Mosaic Covenant, it still made with the same God with the same eternal character traits and therefore the same cumulatively valid instructions for how to know Him through embodying His character traits (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27). The New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on on our hearts, so while the New Covenant is not like the Mosaic Covenant, the way that they are not like each other is not in regard to following the Torah. Gentiles who want nothing to do with obeying the Torah also want nothing to do with the New Covenant.

The way to make a Jew jealous is by being more observant to the Torah than they are, but Gentiles refusing to follow Christ's example of obedience to the Torah is not going to cause any Jews to become jealous.

Again, you do not understand the old covenant, and you do not understand the new covenant. Nor do you understand what Jesus did on the cross. You are in bondage to the law....

The sentiment is mutual, but I at least have Scripture to support my position. In Psalm 119:142, the Torah is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of the Torah that puts us into bondage while the truth sets us free. Even if I were in bondage to the law, then it would still be much better than you being in bondage to sin.

 

[legion]

God's character traits are eternal, so everything that God's covenants teach us about how to know God through embodying His character traits is eternally and cumulatively valid regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any. For example, God's righteousness is eternal (Psalm 119:142), therefore all of God's righteous laws are eternal (Psalm 119:160), so anyone who has the goal of knowing God through embodying His righteousness will consider any instructions that God has given for how to do that to be cumulatively valid regardless of which covenant they are under. For instance, being a doer of charity was a way to embody God's righteousness before God made any covenants with man, so that is an eternally valid way to know God. There is nothing that God's covenants teach us about who God is that is only true about God for a time. While it is true that the New Covenant is not like the Mosaic Covenant, it still made with the same God with the same eternal character traits and therefore the same cumulatively valid instructions for how to know Him through embodying His character traits (Jeremiah 31:33, Ezekiel 36:26-27). The New Covenant involves God putting the Torah in our minds and writing it on on our hearts, so while the New Covenant is not like the Mosaic Covenant, the way that they are not like each other is not in regard to following the Torah. Gentiles who want nothing to do with obeying the Torah also want nothing to do with the New Covenant.

The way to make a Jew jealous is by being more observant to the Torah than they are, but Gentiles refusing to follow Christ's example of obedience to the Torah is not going to cause any Jews to become jealous.


The sentiment is mutual, but I at least have Scripture to support my position. In Psalm 119:142, the Torah is truth, and in John 8:31-36, it is the transgression of the Torah that puts us into bondage while the truth sets us free. Even if I were in bondage to the law, then it would still be much better than you being in bondage to sin.

Yes God's traits are Eternal but his law was appointed for a specific people and of a specific time frame to usher in Jesus Christ the fact that you don't understand this again I will reiterate loudly

Your problem is that you do not understand the Mosaic law you also do not understand the New Covenant and you do not understand what Jesus Christ did on the cross until you understand this you will not understand what Christianity is about you are literally in bondage to the law