Ephesians 2 is not preaching faith alone.

[Inquisitor]

If there is anyone having justification by faith-alone apart from works, that is not justified by faith-alone while doing an evil work, then say so.

You've be the first.

But, if faith-alone justifies while committing sin against Christ, then ceasing sinning against Christ is not necessary to be justified by faith-alone.





I know where you get this wacky hogwash, that faith-alone justification includes cessation from sinning. But you would do well to ACTUALLY say so, instead of throwing irrelevant criticism at what you erroneously ASSUME other faith-alone Christians believe.

Go ahead and declare that faith-alone does not justify any man, that is doing any evil deed.

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning.

You seem to be placing an enormous emphasis on your own obedience.

Here is a simple passage by Paul and hopefully you can, zero in, on the reason for your salvation.

Colossians 1:22-23
In the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—
if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel
which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

Jesus justifies us, Jesus sanctifies us, Jesus makes us holy, Jesus declares us blameless!

IN HIS SIGHT

All this belongs to Jesus and we cannot generate any of this ourselves.

That is why we boast in Jesus alone for our salvation.

 

[Inquisitor]

All NT Scripture law of Christ applies to every person on earth, but only isn't applied by OT unbelieving Jews, and unbelievers of the nations.

I do not understand your logic?

 

[ATG]

The law only provides a knowledge of sin and nothing else.

The law provides a knowledge of sin and judgment of transgressors.

Rom 4:15
Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

If the law does not judge transgressors with wrath, then there is no law.

The purpose of the law was to prepare Israel for the messiah.

The purpose of the law of Christ is to prepare the world for Christ's return.

Once you have a deep awareness of your inability to obey even simple laws.

Then you are a transgressor inwardly and outwardly, and have no hope to fulfil the law of Christ at His coming.

Then you will hurl yourself at the feet of the messiah.

Then Christ will hurt you with flaming fire at His coming feet.

2Th 1:7
And to you who are troubled rest with us,When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Rev 6:16
And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The letter to the Romans is describing in detail why the Jews failed to achieve righteousness,
through the law.

And why Christians fall from righteousness of the law, by transgressing the same as the Jews:

Rom 11:18
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

1 Peter {1:15}

Be ye holy, for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judges according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Faith-alone justification is highminded above the law, as being without law, and without fear of the Lamb's judgment and wrath against all them that do evil.

Paul is not describing the Gentiles in Romans 2 to Romans 11.

Paul is not writing words of the risen Lamb of God Jesus Christ to any unbelievers anywhere in Romans, nor is James, Peter, John, Jude...Which especially includes OT unbelieving Jews, who would never read the Lord Jesus' words for themselves either.

 

[ATG]

Do you differentiate between the OT Law and the law of grace in Christ?

No. There is no law of grace in NT Scripture. Only the law of Christ and of the Spirit.

I only teach Scripture of God and Christ, not traditions and ideologies of man alone.

 

[ATG]

I will give AI a crack at understanding the difference between the Mosaic law and grace.

Scripture only:


1. The Law was given to Israel in covenant

• “The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us…” (Deuteronomy 5:2–3)
• “He declares…his statutes and rules to Israel. He has not dealt thus with any other nation…” (Psalm 147:19–20)
• “The words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments” (Exodus 34:28)

2. Gentiles were not under that covenant

• “Remember that you were at that time separated from Christ…alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise” (Ephesians 2:12)
• “You are not under law but under grace” (Romans 6:14)
• “If you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law” (Galatians 5:18)

3. The apostles did not place the Law on Gentiles

• “Why are you putting God to the test by placing a yoke on the neck of the disciples that neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear?” (Acts 15:10)
• “It has seemed good…to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements” (Acts 15:28)

4. The Law is fulfilled in love

• “He who loves another has fulfilled the law” (Romans 13:8)
• “The whole law is fulfilled in one word: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself’” (Galatians 5:14)
• “Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law” (Romans 13:10)

5. Jesus identified love as the core command

• “You shall love the Lord your God…You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets” (Matthew 22:37–40)

6. Jesus gave a new commandment

• “A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you” (John 13:34)
• “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you” (John 15:12)

7. This love is the fulfillment and goal

• “The aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith” (1 Timothy 1:5)
• “Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ” (Galatians 6:2)

---

Conclusion from Scripture:

• The covenant Law (including the Ten Commandments) was given to Israel.
• Gentiles were not originally under that covenant and were not placed under it by the apostles.
• The Law is fulfilled in love.
• Jesus’ commandment centers on love—as He loved.

So according to Scripture, love (agape) is the fulfillment of the Law and the defining command under Christ.

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

Jhn 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

So according to Scriptures, no one is loving their neighbor with faith-alone, nor loving Jesus with transgressing His commandments.

(AI programmed by faith-alone law breakers, only repeats doctrine of faith-alone law breakers.)

 

[TruthDefender]

No surprise faith-alone only seeks justification out of context, as though there is no law of Christ to obey and keep.

Rom 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Faith does not nullify keeping the law, as though being justified by faith-alone while transgressing the law.

Rom 3:21
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Rom 2:27
And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

Faith toward God establishes the law doing it's righteousness by nature, without the law being written.

1Ti 1:9
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

The law of Christ judges every man's work to condemn the transgressors. But the righteousness of the law is fulfilled by the Spirit written on the heart, and not on stone and paper alone.

The faith of the lawless does not nullify the law nor judgment of works by law. God judges no man by faith-alone, but only by works of good or evil from the heart.

-"For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace." Romans 6:14 NKJV

-"having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross."
Colossians 2:14 NKJV

*-"But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second."
Hebrews 8:6-7 NKJV

*-"For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God."
Hebrews 7:18-19 NKJV

 

[Inquisitor]

Rom 11:18
Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

Who were the natural branches in Romans 11:18?

How do you explain "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith."?

 

[Just_A__Follower]

You're avoiding Romans 2 to punch on Romans 3:20 keeping the law, that has nothing to do with transgressors of law being judged the same as all transgressors of the law.

Having the law alone or faith-alone does not justify any man doing the same evil of men without law nor faith.

All the diversions, manipulations, and flower-strewn speeches about faith-alone justification, is summed up in one hypocrisy:

That someone having-faith alone can be jsutified with Christ while doing the same things as unbelieving transgressors, that are not justified with Christ.

No faith-alone justifier ever denies this simple religious hypocrisy, that is worse than all other religious hypocrisies, because they name Christ while doing so.

2Ti 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

Some hypocrite Jews did so in the name of the God of Israel, by having the law-alone. Some hypocrite Christians do so in the name of Christ, by having their faith-alone.

Rom 2:23
Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God. For the name of God is blasphemed among the nations through you, as it is written.

Rom 2:23
Thou that makest thy boast of faith, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God. For the name of God is blasphemed among the nations through you, as it is written.

By transgressing the law of Christ, outward circumcision is made uncircumcision, and inward faith is made unbelief.



Paul wrote those verses to show how condemned anyone can be by transgressing the law of God.

He wrote them to show that everyone committing sin is unsaved and unjustified with God. Neither outward circumcision alone, nor inward faith-alone justifies any transgressor against God.




You need to take off your present unholy sinning religion glasses and obey Gospel Scripture.

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:


2Th 1:7
And to you who are troubled rest with us,When the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:





The only difference between you and unbelievers, is they do not name Christ and magnify self-justification.

Good luck being saved by your obedience alone. Have a nice day.

 

[ATG]

You seem to be placing an enormous emphasis on your own obedience.
Jesus justifies us, Jesus sanctifies us, Jesus makes us holy, Jesus declares us blameless!

IN HIS SIGHT

You put an enormous emphasis on obedience in spirit with disobedience in deeds.

So, now we have inward faith-alone with works in spirit, not in deeds. "I know I still do evil, but 'God' sees my heart is still good..."

It's the perversion of God not being fooled by outward works that appear righteous, because He sees the inward heart that is corrupt.

Mat 23:25
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess…Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

That is why we boast in Jesus alone for our salvation.

That is why you boast in justification by faith-alone, not in deed and in truth.

 

[ATG]

I do not understand your logic?

I completely understand the illogic of NT Scriptures written by the apostle to the non-Jews, as only being written to the Jews.

It dismisses any NT Scripture, that a non-Jew doesn't like, and wants to throw it off on the Jews alone.

 

[ATG]

Who were the natural branches in Romans 11:18?

As I've said before, if you're only a babe in knowledge of Scripture, and want me to instruct you in the basics, then I'd be glad to.

Otherwise, take a shot at it for yourself.

How do you explain "Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith."?

How do you explain: Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

 

[ATG]

Good luck being saved by your obedience alone. Have a nice day.

No luck being saved by your faith-alone. Have a nice day.

 

[Inquisitor]

That is why you boast in justification by faith-alone, not in deed and in truth.

Regardless of your performance as a Christian.

Ultimately, our salvation is based on trusting Jesus to save us.

 

[BillyBob]

As I've said before, if you're only a babe in knowledge of Scripture, and want me to instruct you in the basics, then I'd be glad to.

What a terrible thought! How could you even suggest such a thing? Please tell me this was a joke. . . .

We will never acquire perfect obedience in out lifetime. That is why we must trust and believe, [have faith], that we are given the perfect obedience of Christ. He is our advocate seated at the right hand of the father. He intercedes on our behalf. He pleads our case before the father, saying that He has suffered for our sins. Therefore we will be found spotless before the throne of God.
You must either trust yourself or trust Christ.
Does this give you a license to sin? Heaven forbid!

 

[Gideon300]

To clarify Eph 2.8, Paul is simply saying that the doctrine of "Salvation" (getting in) has nothing to do with man's works/behavior/actions. It is solely on the basis of man's faith that one is saved. James 2 is arguing that there are two different Justifications. A man is justified (vindicated) by his actions before man (once he is in), and he is justified (vindicated) by his works before man.


Omniscient Beings do not have faith. God can be faithful, but not have faith. Faith denotes a lack of knowledge; God does not lack knowledge or anything.




"The Faith that is of God" is not a correct translation. As I said before, omniscient Beings do not have faith. Nowhere does God give us faith to be saved. The translation should be "The faith in God...."

Now, having restricted the use of Faith to 'in God' there is, however, a faith that God gives some believers. This is faith that God gives some believers to demonstrate that God can always be trusted, even in tough circumstances, some of us as believers are given to man by God to demonstrate that God guides the believer at times (this faith has nothing to do with salvation). Most believers don't have this gift of faith, it seems to only go to a small group of believers so that these believers can encourage other believers to be trusting and brave in difficult circumstances.


For salvation/justification nobody is given faith to accept Christ.


I live by the faithfulness of the Son of God...
I live by the faithfulness in the Son of God...

How can God give someone something that He does not have? God indeed has faith. Galatians 2:20 literally says exactly that. I don't use the KJV, but it gets Galatians 2:20 right. I use the Berean mostly. It translates the verse incorrectly, even though its own literal translation says the same as the KJV.

Faith, hope and love are three eternal qualities, according to 1 Corinthians 13:13. What is of God is eternal, what is of man is not.

 

[Dino246]

No surprise faith-alone only seeks justification out of context, as though there is no law of Christ to obey and keep.

Does anyone pretend that one verse is the whole counsel of God? No, but that one verse completely undermines your assertion.

 

[Dino246]

If there is anyone having justification by faith-alone apart from works, that is not justified by faith-alone while doing an evil work, then say so.

You've be the first.

But, if faith-alone justifies while committing sin against Christ, then ceasing sinning against Christ is not necessary to be justified by faith-alone.





I know where you get this wacky hogwash, that faith-alone justification includes cessation from sinning. But you would do well to ACTUALLY say so, instead of throwing irrelevant criticism at what you erroneously ASSUME other faith-alone Christians believe.

Go ahead and declare that faith-alone does not justify any man, that is doing any evil deed.

1Jo 3:8
He that is committing sin is of the devil; for the devil is sinning from the beginning.

You are fond of putting words in the mouths of others.

 

[Gideon300]

Regardless of your performance as a Christian.

Ultimately, our salvation is based on trusting Jesus to save us.

It's a false dichotomy anyway. It's not faith alone. We are saved by grace, through faith. Of course, the legalists don't want to know about grace. Or if they do, I've not seen them talk about it.

 

[Dino246]

It's a false dichotomy anyway. It's not faith alone. We are saved by grace, through faith. Of course, the legalists don't want to know about grace. Or if they do, I've not seen them talk about it.

if this particular OP learns about salvation by grace through faith, he will have nothing left to argue.

 

[ATG]

Regardless of your performance as a Christian.

Because of faith-alone Christian weakness, correction in faith toward God is offensive.

Tit 1:13
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;

Ultimately, our salvation is based on trusting Jesus to save us.

Bible salvation is trusting Jesus to save us from doing any evil.

The hypocrisy of faith-alone Christianity is refusing to acknowledge their own purpose and conclusion of their faith-alone justification: That by faith-alone, they count themselves justified while still doing evil.

None of them deny continuing to commit unrighteous deeds in life, and they all say their faith-alone in Christ justifies them for life, apart from their deeds.