Ephesians 2 is not preaching faith alone.

[ATG]

ATG said:
As I've said before, if you're only a babe in knowledge of Scripture, and want me to instruct you in the basics, then I'd be glad to.
What a terrible thought! How could you even suggest such a thing? Please tell me this was a joke. . . .

How is offering to help a babe in knowledge, by instruction in the first principles of Bible covenants and law...Methinks thou exclaimest much to loudly.

If you say being a babe and novice in need of instruction is terrible, then you've grown too big for your theological britches.

1Co 4:6
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another.

 

[ATG]

We will never acquire perfect obedience in out lifetime.

Of course you won't become obedient to God in all things.

1 Peter{1:14}
As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Of course you'll continue to sinfully disobey Him as all children of disobedience. No faith-alone Christian ever can wholly obey God, because by their faith-alone they declare it impossible to walk as Jesus walked on earth.

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

Heb{5:8}
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

5:18
We know that whosoever is born of God is not sinning; but he that is begotten of God is keeping himself, and that wicked one is not touching him.
It's the spiritual sin of one's faith in personal justification, being unbelief in Jesus' salvation from disobeying His Father.

By transgression of the law circumcision is made uncircumcision, so also is faith made unbelief.

Rom 10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report…For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

That is why we must trust and believe, [have faith], that we are given the perfect obedience of Christ.

Only dysfunctional faith-alone can claim to be obedient in spirit, while disobedient in deed and in truth.

1Jo 3:18
My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.

It's not possible to love God in the heart, while disobeying God with the body. No more than to love our neighbor in spirit, while sinning against him in the flesh.

 

[ATG]

He is our advocate seated at the right hand of the father. He intercedes on our behalf.

Jesus doesn't advocate for any unrepentant evil doer. No matter that their faith-alone demands of Him.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Nah 1:3
The LORD is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked:

God is longsuffering for the rebellious to repent of disobeying Him, but He does not forgive nor justify anyone disobeying Him.

Nor is His Son unrighteous to advocate for acquittal of the disobedient that name His name, while judging other children of disobedience guilty.

 

[ATG]

He pleads our case before the father, saying that He has suffered for our sins.

Theological nonsense. No Scripture says that the Lamb of God must remind the Father of dying for sins.

His resurrected body itself, with the marks and prints of crucifixion, is a reminder to all for all ages:

Jhn 20:27
Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

Rev 5:6
And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain,

The resurrected righteous Son Jesus Christ advocates mercy and acquittal only for them, that confess and repent of crucifying Him, and from disobeying Him.

Cor {7:10}
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

No disobedient sinner is acquitted of continued disobedience, by reminding the Son that He had to die for sins, so that past disobedience could be repented and forgiven.

Rom 3:25
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Therefore we will be found spotless before the throne of God.

Spiritual delusion of being spotless within, while corrupt without.

You must either trust yourself or trust Christ.

You must either trust your faith-alone to justify you, or trust Jesus Christ to make you obedient in all things.

Does this give you a license to sin? Heaven forbid!

Does continued justification while sinning give you a license to sin? Of Course! Heaven forbid any faith-alone Christian should let that obvious unspoken secret out of the bag.

All of faith-alone justification is for one purpose and conclusion: To justify someone by their faith-alone in Christ, while disobeying Jesus Christ. And declaring by their faith-alone, that they will continue doing so in this life unto the end.

 

[ATG]

Does anyone pretend that one verse is the whole counsel of God?

Of course. It's sometimes called making a religion out of a shoe-string verse of Scripture.

The Acts 2:38 water baptizers do so, and the lawless faith-alone justifiers do so with Rom 3:28.

That one verse completely undermines your assertion.

That one verse taken out of context completely undermines obedience to the law of Christ. Which is anathema to faith-alone justification.

Neither law nor obedience to the law of Christ, works against faith toward God unto salvation. Transgression of the law works against faith-alone justification.

Jas 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well: But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors. For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

 

[ATG]

You are fond of putting words in the mouths of others.

You are fond of not denying them, while trying to spit them out.

The purpose and conclusion of all faith-alone justification apart from what a person is doing at the time, is obvious religious hypocrisy to all: Being justified by a faith-alone when doing the same unrighteousness of all sinners.

No faith-alone justifier has ever denied this, by confessing their faith-alone does not justify them, if doing the same unrighteousness of all sinners.

It's more commonly called self-justifying religion, that does not always practice what it preaches. But even worse, also declaring that they cannot possibly always practice what it preaches. But even way worse, declaring that anyone always practicing what it preaches is the 'real' hypocrite in the room.

It is completely dsyfunctionally upside down, as though walking as Jesus walked, keeping His commandments blamelessly, and always doing those things pleasing to the Son and the Father, is the greatest offense and enemy to faith-alone Christians everywhere...

Rev 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[ATG]

if this particular OP learns about salvation by grace through faith, he will have nothing left to argue.

If this particulare OP hears salvation by grace though faith, he will have nothing to argue with.

What this OP hears is salvation by grace through faith-alone apart from works. As well as the dupiclity of claiming to preach the one, while preaching the other.

It shows that this OP has sufficiently exposed faith-alone justification's hypocritical purpose and conclusion, that is never denied. And so, those who formerly preached salvation by grace through faith-alone, now pretend to have been preaching salvation by grace through faith all along.

Which is fine. Any Christian preaching salvation by grace through faith, is preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. With which there is nothing to argue against.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2 is preaching salvation by grace through faith, not faith-alone.

The Scriptures of God and Jesus Christ get the honor for purging faith-alone from the lips of others. If not the hearts.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

If this particulare OP hears salvation by grace though faith, he will have nothing to argue with.

What this OP hears is salvation by grace through faith-alone apart from works. As well as the dupiclity of claiming to preach the one, while preaching the other.

It shows that this OP has sufficiently exposed faith-alone justification's hypocritical purpose and conclusion, that is never denied. And so, those who formerly preached salvation by grace through faith-alone, now pretend to have been preaching salvation by grace through faith all along.

Which is fine. Any Christian preaching salvation by grace through faith, is preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. With which there is nothing to argue against.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2 is preaching salvation by grace through faith, not faith-alone.

The Scriptures of God and Jesus Christ get the honor for purging faith-alone from the lips of others. If not the hearts.

Why does the phrase “saved by faith alone” trigger you so much?

 

[Dino246]

You are fond of not denying them, while trying to spit them out.

I have no obligation to do anything with the words you attribute to me. They are neither my words nor my beliefs.

You don't care about others enough to discover what they actually believe. Why should I value what you throw at me?

 

[Inquisitor]

Scriptures are given.

Show how the Scriptures are not saying what they say, when the beginning of the gospel preached by Jesus is repent, and believe the gospel. And then preached by Peter to repent, and be converted by the gospel. And then confirmed by Paul that repentance is the first principle of faith toward God.

The gospel of Jesus Christ according to the Scriptures, is repentance to believe God and be converted to the kingdom of God. No repentance, no faith toward God, nor conversion of Jesus Christ.


Only those sinning and trespassing against God can repent.

Dan {4:27}
Wherefore, O king, let my counsel be acceptable unto thee, and break off thy sins by righteousness, and thine iniquities by shewing mercy to the poor; if it may be a lengthening of thy tranquility.

Those doing good righteousness of God, need no repentance:

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:




You're confusing the argument.

Only sinners can repent of their sinning, which can only be by conviction of the Spirit for sinning. Which is why godly sorrow working repentance is granted by God unto salvation and life.

Jhn 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Acts{11:18}
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the nations granted repentance unto life.

Neither the work of repentance nor faith toward God is our own alone, but only given by God to be freely saved and justified with Him.

Acts{3:19}
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, that any man should boast.

Both the work of repentance and the faith of God are the gift of God, not the work of man, that can be boasted of.

Because of faith-alone Christian weakness, correction in faith toward God is offensive.

Tit 1:13
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;


Bible salvation is trusting Jesus to save us from doing any evil.

The hypocrisy of faith-alone Christianity is refusing to acknowledge their own purpose and conclusion of their faith-alone justification: That by faith-alone, they count themselves justified while still doing evil.

None of them deny continuing to commit unrighteous deeds in life, and they all say their faith-alone in Christ justifies them for life, apart from their deeds.

You do not sin?

You do not do evil?

 

[Inquisitor]

The hypocrisy of faith-alone Christianity is refusing to acknowledge their own purpose and conclusion of their faith-alone justification:

Paul seems to be saying that the Gentiles attained a righteousness by faith.

Romans 9:30-32
What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness,
even the righteousness which is by faith; but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive
at that law. Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They
stumbled over the stumbling stone.

 

[ThunderPen]

You have actually crucified your passions and desires?

Wow, not often I get to meet a bona fide Christian.

Obviously your living in the Holy Spirit continually.

All the fruit, gifts, and ministries of the Holy Spirit, as we were commanded.

I was a porn addict for decades and the Holy Spirit equipped me with self control and set me free. I no longer even have a desire for it. This victory is all by the Spirit, each believer received the equipping of the Spirit for free when they believe, and need to believe that they have the fruit, the use of the fruit of the Spirit is by faith, by believing you already have them.

Paul clearly said, they that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. Galatians 5:24 In fact it was not Paul who said that, but the Spirit through Paul, if it was not so, Paul would have said so as he did in other letters when the words were just from him.

The Holy Spirit is living in me continually, because of the death and resurrection of Christ.
All the fruits and gifts of the Spirit are mine, through faith, that is, through believing.

 

[Nedsk]

Could you please give Scripture?

Really? I've posted it 1000 times.

James 2:22. Why would something that's already complete need completion? If faith alone was sufficient it would complete for salvation but James tell us that a man is saved by works and not by faith alone.

Why would any mention of works be necessary at all if faith alone is sufficient for salvation? People have to talk about works though because Scripture is clear that works need to be involved. No one claims they are saved by them but no one is saved without them

 

[Nedsk]

I’ll just take as you don’t understand.

You mean agree with you? Lol You refuse to see the words and you listen only to what your cashier turned pastor tells you. It would be funny if it wasn't sad. God gave you a brain right? You should exercise it

 

[mailmandan]

James 2:22. Why would something that's already complete need completion? If faith alone was sufficient it would complete for salvation but James tell us that a man is saved by works and not by faith alone.

BUSTED!

 

[Just_A__Follower]

You mean agree with you? Lol You refuse to see the words and you listen only to what your cashier turned pastor tells you. It would be funny if it wasn't sad. God gave you a brain right? You should exercise it

I asked you a simple question in which you were unable to answer. And no I don’t mean agree with me. And I don’t have a pastor. And yes I use my brain, do you? Would you like to just answer the question or continue spouting off garbage that takes a conversation nowhere? Do you understand what the phrase “saved by faith alone” means?

 

[Roger316]

If this particulare OP hears salvation by grace though faith, he will have nothing to argue with.

What this OP hears is salvation by grace through faith-alone apart from works. As well as the dupiclity of claiming to preach the one, while preaching the other.

It shows that this OP has sufficiently exposed faith-alone justification's hypocritical purpose and conclusion, that is never denied. And so, those who formerly preached salvation by grace through faith-alone, now pretend to have been preaching salvation by grace through faith all along.

Which is fine. Any Christian preaching salvation by grace through faith, is preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. With which there is nothing to argue against.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Eph 2 is preaching salvation by grace through faith, not faith-alone.

The Scriptures of God and Jesus Christ get the honor for purging faith-alone from the lips of others. If not the hearts.

It seems like you are painting with too broad a brush. While we can imagine that some folks who believe in "faith alone" live sinful lives, I doubt that they all do. Believing in faith-alone does not necessarily lead to a lax attitude toward morality.

The slogan “faith alone” doesn’t mean “nothing besides faith matters.” It arose during the Reformation as a response to the medieval Catholic system of indulgences and sacramental requirements for salvation. The Reformers — following Paul — were asking a deeper question:

Does God justify a person because of external religious actions, or because of the inward posture of trust toward Him?

“Faith alone” is a shorthand way of saying that justification is grounded in the inner reality of trusting God, not in outward rituals or performances. It’s an attempt to capture the conviction that salvation is given to those whose hearts genuinely rely on God, rather than those who merely comply with external requirements.

 

[TruthDefender]

Really? I've posted it 1000 times.

James 2:22. Why would something that's already complete need completion? If faith alone was sufficient it would complete for salvation but James tell us that a man is saved by works and not by faith alone.

Why would any mention of works be necessary at all if faith alone is sufficient for salvation? People have to talk about works though because Scripture is clear that works need to be involved. No one claims they are saved by them but no one is saved without them

Thank u for that! I’m not going to keep straight who posts what; especially when you’re on multi threads.

I never stated that it is all you need. (?) However, it is mandatory to have faith for salvation. What is this thread about??

“Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.”
‭‭James‬ ‭2‬:‭21‬-‭24‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[Inquisitor]

I was a porn addict for decades and the Holy Spirit equipped me with self control and set me free. I no longer even have a desire for it. This victory is all by the Spirit, each believer received the equipping of the Spirit for free when they believe, and need to believe that they have the fruit, the use of the fruit of the Spirit is by faith, by believing you already have them.

Paul clearly said, they that belong to Christ have crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts. Galatians 5:24 In fact it was not Paul who said that, but the Spirit through Paul, if it was not so, Paul would have said so as he did in other letters when the words were just from him.

The Holy Spirit is living in me continually, because of the death and resurrection of Christ.
All the fruits and gifts of the Spirit are mine, through faith, that is, through believing.

That is the only way we are truly set free is in the full power of the Holy Spirit!

Amen.

 

[ATG]

Why does the phrase “saved by faith alone” trigger you so much?

Ask Jesus Christ why it offends God so much:

Jas 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

2Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.