Eternal Security - If saved, always saved! Part 1. - By David Stewart
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You say evade, I say clarify.
You can think you obey the bible and not be a follower of Christ. You can think that obedience is the key to being saved and not have to come to Christ Himself, but that is wrong.
The Lord says depart from me, for I never knew you. That is to people who thought they were obeying and doing everything required of them. They failed to ask God for help. They failed to ask God for the very things that would save them. You have to go to Him and ask directly.
Your work and your obedience doesn't save you. His Grace is what saves you. And I'm pretty sure you have to ask Him for it.
You have to admit you asked a pretty loaded question...
You can think you obey the bible and not be a follower of Christ. You can think that obedience is the key to being saved and not have to come to Christ Himself, but that is wrong.
The Lord says depart from me, for I never knew you. That is to people who thought they were obeying and doing everything required of them. They failed to ask God for help. They failed to ask God for the very things that would save them. You have to go to Him and ask directly.
Your work and your obedience doesn't save you. His Grace is what saves you. And I'm pretty sure you have to ask Him for it.
You have to admit you asked a pretty loaded question...
Of course Peter was talking about the mans old lifestyle. Those were his PAST sins that were purged. You are not purged of future uncommitted sins. You will not find a single verse in the entire Bible which states or even alludes to sins being forgiven in advance.
Your problem is that you view Jesus death on the cross as a penal substitution.
Penal Substitution is a teaching which is only 400 years old. It is pure heresy because it teaches that Jesus was punished in your place thus you cannot be punished for your sins because the punishment due was already meted out on Jesus. Thus under this satanic teaching you can sin and surely not die.
Such a teaching is found nowhere in the Bible, it was not taught by the early church, it was only developed during the reformation on the back of Anselm's 11th century Satifaction model.
The parable of the unforgiving servant completely contradicts it. Rom 3::25 and 2Pet 1:9 explicitly speak of past sins. Therefore you have to twist those scriptures in your mind to mean something else.
When Paul and Peter refer to previous sins that is exactly what they mean.
An adulterer does not approach his wife (or God for that matter) and seek forgiveness for his adultery and then go out and commit the same act a week later and remain forgiven.
Ezekiel clearly puts such an absurd notion to rest.
Eze 18:24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.
Peter agreed.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Yet you are emotionally tied to Satan's gospel of "Ye shall not surely die."
M
You didn't ask me to clarify before. If you needed me to clarify, you should have said so the first time.
Well sure you can. You can also claim to be a Christian and be saved and actually be a wolf in sheep's clothing.
All I did was ask you some questions. I never once claimed you could be saved by not coming to Christ, so please don't resort to making false assumptions like that.
But asking God for His grace is doing something, is it not? Asking God for grace is obeying the Bible, is it not?
Obedience IS coming to Christ.
No they were not obeying and doing everything required of them. Here is that verse...
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
They were workers of iniquity. They may have had many outward charitable works but they did these works while still in iniquity. You cannot serve two masters.
Jesus prefaced the above comment with...
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
As you stated these people may have thought they were doing everything right but there is a way that seems right to a man but the end is death. These people named the name of Christ but did not depart from iniquity.
They didn't do this...
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
You are right, it is not work and obedience which saves someone. For we cannot quicken ourselves and we didn't put Jesus on the cross ourselves. God in His mercy did and does those things.
Yet that does not negate the fact that obedience and works of faith allow salvation to effectually take place.
Noah had to build the ark. It was absolutely mandatory for him to do so. He worked with God and yielded to His grace. God did not build the ark for him. That exact example is given us in Hebrews 11 for us to learn from. All those in Hebrews 11 had the works of faith in evidence, without which they would have perished.
No they were not obeying and doing everything required of them. Here is that verse...
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
They were workers of iniquity. They may have had many outward charitable works but they did these works while still in iniquity. You cannot serve two masters.
Jesus prefaced the above comment with...
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
As you stated these people may have thought they were doing everything right but there is a way that seems right to a man but the end is death. These people named the name of Christ but did not depart from iniquity.
They didn't do this...
2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.
2Ti 2:22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.
You are right, it is not work and obedience which saves someone. For we cannot quicken ourselves and we didn't put Jesus on the cross ourselves. God in His mercy did and does those things.
Yet that does not negate the fact that obedience and works of faith allow salvation to effectually take place.
Noah had to build the ark. It was absolutely mandatory for him to do so. He worked with God and yielded to His grace. God did not build the ark for him. That exact example is given us in Hebrews 11 for us to learn from. All those in Hebrews 11 had the works of faith in evidence, without which they would have perished.
I meant that I was clarifying not evading. I didn't need you to clarify, I thought I knew what you were asking.
I wasn't saying that you claimed a person could be saved by obedience alone. But do you see how answering the question the way you wanted me to answer it could have left that important element out?
And you are right. Ultimately asking God for Grace is obeying the Bible. Ultimately the Bible is Gods Word for us. We just have to continue to study it to show ourselves approved...
Good Talk... LOL
Jesus taught those who were considering to follow Him ought to count the cost.
Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Jesus didn't imply in His teaching above that everything was built already. The implication is that you have to do something.
What might that be?
Simply it is being a doer of the word. Those who are the doers BUILD their house upon the rock.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Jesus Christ is the foundation that we build upon.
When Jesus said it is finished He was referring to the propitiatory sacrifice on the cross on behalf of our past sins (Rom 3:25). He still had to be resurrected, people still had to follow Him.
So you honestly believe that "it is finished" cancels out "striving" and patiently continuing?
Striving...
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Patiently continuing...
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Paul sure didn't think "it is finished" applied to running the race with endurance.
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Even after "It is finished" Jesus said this..
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
Luk 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.
Jesus didn't imply in His teaching above that everything was built already. The implication is that you have to do something.
What might that be?
Simply it is being a doer of the word. Those who are the doers BUILD their house upon the rock.
Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
Mat 7:25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
Mat 7:26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
Mat 7:27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Jesus Christ is the foundation that we build upon.
When Jesus said it is finished He was referring to the propitiatory sacrifice on the cross on behalf of our past sins (Rom 3:25). He still had to be resurrected, people still had to follow Him.
So you honestly believe that "it is finished" cancels out "striving" and patiently continuing?
Striving...
Luk 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
Luk 13:24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
Patiently continuing...
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Paul sure didn't think "it is finished" applied to running the race with endurance.
1Co 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Co 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Co 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Co 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Even after "It is finished" Jesus said this..
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
There are things to do before you come to Christ. The Law demands work from all who desire to obey it.
Galatians 3:23-26
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
But after that faith come we are no longer under the schoolmaster which requires us to work...
Hebrews 4:1-11
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
We strive to enter His Rest. Because we sinners fall into un-belief from time to time and have to ask Jesus to bring us back onto the path of righteousness.
It is finished means that God has provided all the provision necessary for you and your Salvation. You haven't recieved it because of your un-belief. You feel there are things for you to do, such as building your ark, because you lack faith. I can speak to you of these things because I lack faith sometimes too. I'm not trying to point at you and say you have fallen short, because I have fallen short also. That is why the Lord says in our weakness He is strong. When we know we need Him and call out He is strong to Save.
Galatians 3:23-26
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
But after that faith come we are no longer under the schoolmaster which requires us to work...
Hebrews 4:1-11
1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
4 For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
5 And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
6 Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
We strive to enter His Rest. Because we sinners fall into un-belief from time to time and have to ask Jesus to bring us back onto the path of righteousness.
It is finished means that God has provided all the provision necessary for you and your Salvation. You haven't recieved it because of your un-belief. You feel there are things for you to do, such as building your ark, because you lack faith. I can speak to you of these things because I lack faith sometimes too. I'm not trying to point at you and say you have fallen short, because I have fallen short also. That is why the Lord says in our weakness He is strong. When we know we need Him and call out He is strong to Save.
I know that Christ right now is seated at the right hand of God and is making intercession for the saints. See Romans 8:34
You have to remember Feedm3, we are talking about the Physical reign of the Lord Jesus Christ on this earth. And right now who is it that rules the airwaves? Who is the prince of the power of the air? It is Satan. See Ephesians 2:2.
Right now, who is the god of this world? Again, it is Satan. See 2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. - 2 Corinthians 4:4 (KJB)
wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: - Ephesians 2:2 (KJB)
Those are interesting verses which you brought up. And yes I am aware that those verses are referencing to the 1,000 year Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ. Those verses are showing us that Jesus Christ is the Head of the Church (The Body of Christ).
Again, you must remember that we are talking about and discussing the Physical Messianic Reign of our Lord Jesus Christ on this Earth when He will rule the nations with a rod of iron. Right now, Christ is in Heaven seated at the right hand of God
Yes the Rapture will come and we will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air. And so shall we ever be with the Lord.
Again, there is more than one judgment. I have addressed this already with you. Remember you have the Judgment Seat of Christ which is for the Christians. Then you have the Judgment of the Nations and the Old Testament Saints. And after the 1,000 year Reign of Jesus Christ, the Great White Throne Judgment will take place which is for the unsaved dead.
No Feedm3, those passages of Scripture which I cited to you are referring to the 1,000 year Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ. They are not referring to the Church Age. Right now we are in the Church Age. The 1,000 Year Millennial Reign of Jesus Christ will take place after the Judgment of the Nations. And during the Millennial Kingdom, both Jews and Gentiles will have to keep the Feast of Tabernacles. Let me ask you Feedm3, are we as Christians required to keep the Feast of Tabernacles right now?
Of course not.
I think I see what you are doing Feedm3, your spiritualizing the Scriptures.
You should allow the Scripture to interpret Scripture and to simply take at face value what the Scriptures are actually saying.
Correct. We are now living in the Church Age, or the Age of Grace. We are not under the Law, we are under Grace. But again during the Physical Messianic Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ; this is what we can expect to be taking place:
Zechariah 14 (King James Bible)
King James Version (KJV)
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness Unto The Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts. - Zechariah 14:1-21 (King James Bible)
Ezekiel 44:9-31 (King James Bible)
9 Thus saith the Lord God; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
10 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.
12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord God, and they shall bear their iniquity.
13 And they shall not come near unto me, to do the office of a priest unto me, nor to come near to any of my holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.
14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.
15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord God:
16 They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge.
17 And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.
18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.
19 And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments.
20 Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads.
21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.
22 Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before.
23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.
25 And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves.
26 And after he is cleansed, they shall reckon unto him seven days.
27 And in the day that he goeth into the sanctuary, unto the inner court, to minister in the sanctuary, he shall offer his sin offering, saith the Lord God.
28 And it shall be unto them for an inheritance: I am their inheritance: and ye shall give them no possession in Israel: I am their possession.
29 They shall eat the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering: and every dedicated thing in Israel shall be theirs.
30 And the first of all the firstfruits of all things, and every oblation of all, of every sort of your oblations, shall be the priest's: ye shall also give unto the priest the first of your dough, that he may cause the blessing to rest in thine house.
31 The priests shall not eat of any thing that is dead of itself, or torn, whether it be fowl or beast. - Ezekiel 44:9-31 (King James Bible)
Ezekiel 45:18-25 (King James Bible)
18 Thus saith the Lord God; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary:
19 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court.
20 And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house.
21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.
22 And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering.
23 And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the Lord, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily for a sin offering.
24 And he shall prepare a meat offering of an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and an hin of oil for an ephah.
25 In the seventh month, in the fifteenth day of the month, shall he do the like in the feast of the seven days, according to the sin offering, according to the burnt offering, and according to the meat offering, and according to the oil. - Ezekiel 45:18-25 (King James Bible)
So after reading these passages of Scripture, if you just read them and read them within the context without trying to Spiritualize them, you should be able to see that these are prophecies regarding the Millennial Kingdom. These are prophecies that point to the Millennial Kingdom and Messianic Reign of Jesus Christ. And from what I have read from these passages, it appears that the Law that was delivered by Moses will be obeyed. Remember this will be a Messianic Kingdom. And also the Sabbaths and Feasts of Israel will be kept. This includes the Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, and the Feast of Tabernacles. These will all be observed, kept and followed during the literal Messianic 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ.
Again Feedm3, I ask you, what Christian (Gentile Believer) do you know of who is currently keeping the feasts of Israel?
Except for the Christians who follow modern day Messianic Jewish Roots Movement of today. I Understand there are some Christians who have joined the Messianic Movement and who are observing the feasts because of what they are being taught in the Messianic Synagogues. But outside of that, are there any Christians that you know who attend a Baptist, Protestant, Methodist Church, and who are keeping the Sabbath and the Feasts of Israel?
I am guessing probably not. And like I mentioned above, there are a few exceptions. The Christians following the Messianic Roots movement are simply not rightly diving the word. Those in the Messianic Roots Movement who are teaching that you should keep the law and the feasts clearly have not heeded or obeyed the Scripture found in 2 Timothy 2:15 where we are commanded to study the Scriptures and to rightly divide them. The Apostle Paul never commanded us to keep the Feasts or to Keep the Sabbaths. And the Pauline Epistles are definitely written for the Church Age.
The teachers of the Messianic Hebrew Roots Movement seem to look over Colossians 2:16.
Well Feedm3, if what you say is true. Then what about Ezekiel (Chapters 40-48)?
I mean if you read these Chapter without spiritualizing them, it is evident that Scripture teaches that the Sabbaths, Feasts, and even the Animal Sacrifices will come back in the Millennium. There is just no getting around that. Again, when studying Scripture you have got to be a dispensationalist.
God's method of Bible Study for us is Dispensational Bible Study.
Of course we are not to make sacrifices according to the Law. We are not under the law but under grace in this dispensation. The Law, the Sabbaths, The Feasts, the Animal Sacrifices come back in the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ. (See Ezekiel 43, 44, 45 and Zechariah 14)
Feedm3, you are interpreting these Scriptures with an allegorical mindset and viewpoint. That is why you have not accepted the truth about the 1,000 year Millennial Reign of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
When you read Ezekiel 43,44,45 and Zechariah 14, do not interpret them allegorically but allow Scripture to interpret Scripture.
King James Version (KJV)
14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.
10 All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses.
11 And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13 And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the Lord shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14 And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15 And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20 In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, Holiness Unto The Lord; and the pots in the Lord's house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the Lord of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the Lord of hosts. - Zechariah 14:1-21 (King James Bible)
Ezekiel 44:9-31 (King James Bible)
9 Thus saith the Lord God; No stranger, uncircumcised in heart, nor uncircumcised in flesh, shall enter into my sanctuary, of any stranger that is among the children of Israel.
10 And the Levites that are gone away far from me, when Israel went astray, which went astray away from me after their idols; they shall even bear their iniquity.
11 Yet they shall be ministers in my sanctuary, having charge at the gates of the house, and ministering to the house: they shall slay the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people, and they shall stand before them to minister unto them.
12 Because they ministered unto them before their idols, and caused the house of Israel to fall into iniquity; therefore have I lifted up mine hand against them, saith the Lord God, and they shall bear their iniquity.
13 And they shall not come near unto me, to do the office of a priest unto me, nor to come near to any of my holy things, in the most holy place: but they shall bear their shame, and their abominations which they have committed.
14 But I will make them keepers of the charge of the house, for all the service thereof, and for all that shall be done therein.
15 But the priests the Levites, the sons of Zadok, that kept the charge of my sanctuary when the children of Israel went astray from me, they shall come near to me to minister unto me, and they shall stand before me to offer unto me the fat and the blood, saith the Lord God:
16 They shall enter into my sanctuary, and they shall come near to my table, to minister unto me, and they shall keep my charge.
17 And it shall come to pass, that when they enter in at the gates of the inner court, they shall be clothed with linen garments; and no wool shall come upon them, whiles they minister in the gates of the inner court, and within.
18 They shall have linen bonnets upon their heads, and shall have linen breeches upon their loins; they shall not gird themselves with any thing that causeth sweat.
19 And when they go forth into the utter court, even into the utter court to the people, they shall put off their garments wherein they ministered, and lay them in the holy chambers, and they shall put on other garments; and they shall not sanctify the people with their garments.
20 Neither shall they shave their heads, nor suffer their locks to grow long; they shall only poll their heads.
21 Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.
22 Neither shall they take for their wives a widow, nor her that is put away: but they shall take maidens of the seed of the house of Israel, or a widow that had a priest before.
23 And they shall teach my people the difference between the holy and profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.
24 And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.
25 And they shall come at no dead person to defile themselves: but for father, or for mother, or for son, or for daughter, for brother, or for sister that hath had no husband, they may defile themselves.
26 And after he is cleansed, they shall reckon unto him seven days.
27 And in the day that he goeth into the sanctuary, unto the inner court, to minister in the sanctuary, he shall offer his sin offering, saith the Lord God.
28 And it shall be unto them for an inheritance: I am their inheritance: and ye shall give them no possession in Israel: I am their possession.
29 They shall eat the meat offering, and the sin offering, and the trespass offering: and every dedicated thing in Israel shall be theirs.
30 And the first of all the firstfruits of all things, and every oblation of all, of every sort of your oblations, shall be the priest's: ye shall also give unto the priest the first of your dough, that he may cause the blessing to rest in thine house.
31 The priests shall not eat of any thing that is dead of itself, or torn, whether it be fowl or beast. - Ezekiel 44:9-31 (King James Bible)
Ezekiel 45:18-25 (King James Bible)
18 Thus saith the Lord God; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary:
19 And the priest shall take of the blood of the sin offering, and put it upon the posts of the house, and upon the four corners of the settle of the altar, and upon the posts of the gate of the inner court.
20 And so thou shalt do the seventh day of the month for every one that erreth, and for him that is simple: so shall ye reconcile the house.
21 In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten.
22 And upon that day shall the prince prepare for himself and for all the people of the land a bullock for a sin offering.
23 And seven days of the feast he shall prepare a burnt offering to the Lord, seven bullocks and seven rams without blemish daily the seven days; and a kid of the goats daily for a sin offering.
24 And he shall prepare a meat offering of an ephah for a bullock, and an ephah for a ram, and an hin of oil for an ephah.
25 In the seventh month, in the fifteenth day of the month, shall he do the like in the feast of the seven days, according to the sin offering, according to the burnt offering, and according to the meat offering, and according to the oil. - Ezekiel 45:18-25 (King James Bible)
So after reading these passages of Scripture, if you just read them and read them within the context without trying to Spiritualize them, you should be able to see that these are prophecies regarding the Millennial Kingdom. These are prophecies that point to the Millennial Kingdom and Messianic Reign of Jesus Christ. And from what I have read from these passages, it appears that the Law that was delivered by Moses will be obeyed. Remember this will be a Messianic Kingdom. And also the Sabbaths and Feasts of Israel will be kept. This includes the Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, and the Feast of Tabernacles. These will all be observed, kept and followed during the literal Messianic 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ.
Again Feedm3, I ask you, what Christian (Gentile Believer) do you know of who is currently keeping the feasts of Israel?
Except for the Christians who follow modern day Messianic Jewish Roots Movement of today. I Understand there are some Christians who have joined the Messianic Movement and who are observing the feasts because of what they are being taught in the Messianic Synagogues. But outside of that, are there any Christians that you know who attend a Baptist, Protestant, Methodist Church, and who are keeping the Sabbath and the Feasts of Israel?
I am guessing probably not. And like I mentioned above, there are a few exceptions. The Christians following the Messianic Roots movement are simply not rightly diving the word. Those in the Messianic Roots Movement who are teaching that you should keep the law and the feasts clearly have not heeded or obeyed the Scripture found in 2 Timothy 2:15 where we are commanded to study the Scriptures and to rightly divide them. The Apostle Paul never commanded us to keep the Feasts or to Keep the Sabbaths. And the Pauline Epistles are definitely written for the Church Age.
The teachers of the Messianic Hebrew Roots Movement seem to look over Colossians 2:16.
Well Feedm3, if what you say is true. Then what about Ezekiel (Chapters 40-48)?
I mean if you read these Chapter without spiritualizing them, it is evident that Scripture teaches that the Sabbaths, Feasts, and even the Animal Sacrifices will come back in the Millennium. There is just no getting around that. Again, when studying Scripture you have got to be a dispensationalist.
God's method of Bible Study for us is Dispensational Bible Study.
Of course we are not to make sacrifices according to the Law. We are not under the law but under grace in this dispensation. The Law, the Sabbaths, The Feasts, the Animal Sacrifices come back in the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ. (See Ezekiel 43, 44, 45 and Zechariah 14)
Feedm3, you are interpreting these Scriptures with an allegorical mindset and viewpoint. That is why you have not accepted the truth about the 1,000 year Millennial Reign of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
When you read Ezekiel 43,44,45 and Zechariah 14, do not interpret them allegorically but allow Scripture to interpret Scripture.
I do understand that there are types and shadows in the Bible. In fact, I am aware that they are through out the whole Bible, and it is good to be able to see where they occur. But if you try to spiritualize the Scriptures which you do not understand, that can be a problem. The proper way to study the Bible is to 1) ask the Holy Ghost to open our eyes to understand the Scriptures (Psalm 119:18)
2) rightly divide the Scriptures (2 Timothy 2:15)
3) and to allow the Scriptures to interpret the Scriptures(1 Corinthians 2:13)