Eternal Security - If saved, always saved! Part 1. - By David Stewart

feedm3 · Sep 24, 2012

The coming of the Messiah, and establishment of His church - Matt 16:18, the new covenant with Israel and Judah, as well as the Gentiles. IT HAS BEEN FULFILLED BY THE NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH

The Place God dwells now is IN the Christian, because the Christian is NOW part of HIS body, and His body is the church.

Written to the Corintian CHURCH:
II Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people

Written to the ROMAN CHURCH:
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his

I Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit

Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence

19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord

EZE 43:5-7 FULFILLED

Here again, the church:

"his Tabernacle":
Heb 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God

The "everlasting covenant":

HEB 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away

EZE 37:26-F. FULFILLED

This is concerning the NEW Covenant, and it's inclusion of the Gentiles:

I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: 11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

"his neighbor and bother" is showing every man ONLY taught other Jews in the first covenant, but under the NEW they will not limit themselves to the "neighbors and brothers" but it is a Covenant for all men of any race:

Rom 1:16 for I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God unto salvation to the Jew first and ALSO THE GREEK: -ZEC 8:21-23 FULFILLED

so you believe it is a literal "beast" and literal "marks on their foreheads"? You think vs 1-3 in Rev 20 are literal "chains" "bottomless pitts", "serpents" and "dragons"?

If not, then what in this figurative context makes Jerusalem, and a 1ooo years literal?

Show why, give a valid reason.

My reason for knowing they are figurative is valid and logical.

1. the context is highly figurative - "the bottomless pit", the "dragon", the "serpent" the "great chain" all figurative. So keeping things in context, the "looo years" and the "place Jerusalem" are also figurative, as God expects me to use the common sense he gave me when interpreting these things.

So theres my logical valid reason, so what's yours?

In fact the first Chapter of Rev tells you it is going to be a symboical book:
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

See that word "signified", it means to symbolize the truth.

Same word used here:
John 5:31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die

Notice he "signified" his death by saying "he would be "lifted up", which was a figurative way of saying the would be crucified, without actually saying it.

The entire book of Rev are "signifying" things, that you and many others NEED and WANT to be literal, yet youy can not even show why.

Lets look at just 6 terms found in the first 3 passges of Revelation 20:

1. "the key" - no one believes God needs a literal "key" that will free Satan. God is all powerful.

2. "a great chain", figurative, unless you believe in this spiritual place, angels use big chains to capture dragons.

3. Dragon - figurative term to describe Satan

4. Serpent - same as above

5. the bottomless pitt - figurative, unless you beleive their is a literal pitt that if one falls into he will just fall for eternity.

6. the 1000 years. Mention in the same context as all the other terms above. So why are these terms figurative, yet this ONE term, is not?

feedm3 · Sep 24, 2012

Also it is important to not Revelation's time frame:
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John

It is important and vital, not to ignore details like this when attempting to interpret a hard book like Revelation.

"Shortly come to pass" was intended to let the recipients of this letter who lived 2000 years ago, that the time was at hand.

Well if these things still have not happened yet, again "shortly come to pass" is wrong wroding to use, and actually would be wrong.

Many attempt to say "well a 1000 years is a day with God", yet that is not what that passages says, it says "a thousand years is but a day, and a day as 1000 years". The second part of that passage is always dropped off for some reason. it merly shows their is no difference with a day or a 1000 years as God is not bound by time.

Yet People are, and this letter was written to people, and this letter was telling people, these things that John wrote were about to happen in their lifetimes.

I know this is radical to everything you've probably heard, but before you dismiss it, at least consider why I am saying this, you never know, you may agree in the end.

Also the end of the book say the "time is AT HAND" again a word people interpret as meaning, near.

I said I would not say anything rude anymore, so I will pass on commenting here.

This is concerning the death of Jesus and the reign of Christ, in which one is fulfilled (his death) and other is happing NOW and every sense he was resurrected - (His reign).

If your saying this has not happened yet:

1. your saying the GENTILES have not already been given to Christ as an inheritance. (yet "Gentiles" and "heathen" are from the same Hebrew word)

The Gentiles have already been brought into the covenant, and given to Christ, proving these passages are already fulfilled:

ACTS 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth

2.Christ is NOT reigning now?

So if he is not reigning now who is?

And how come Paul said he is reigning now, every senses eh was raised from the dead?

EPH 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: 18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, 19 And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us- ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, 20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places,

21 Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:
22 And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church

And Paul also wrote in present tense: he IS reging now (he must reign till...):
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

PAUL SAYS "THEN COMES THE END" - THE END, NOT THE BEGINNING, THIS IS SPEAKING OF THE 2ND COMING.

IT SAYS HE WILL "DELIVER UP THE KINGDOM" NOT "SET UP A KINGDOM FOR A 1000 YEARS".

THIS CANNOT BE AFTER THE 1000 YEARS, IT'S NOWHERE IN THE CONTEXT.

THE CHURCH, THE KINGDOM, IS HERE NOW.

THE CHURCH WILL BE GIVEN TO GOD WHEN CHRIST COMES TO SAVE THE "BODY".
Ehp 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. 24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ(<---because he reigns over it), so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing

THIS IS WHEN THE "RAPTURE" TAKES PLACE. NOT THE RAPTURE YOU SPEAK OF, but the ONLY sense the Bible uses the term.

Notice these two passages:

I COr 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God,

"delivered up" meaning God's children will literally float up in some way:

Here is why:
I Thess 4:6 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord

That word "caught up" is where we get the term "rapture". Look it up in the Greek and latin.

So when Christ comes, their will be a Resurrection: of both the just and the unjust:

Those who are sleeping "In Christ" are those in his body, the church, the kingdom, they will rise to meet the Lord in the air, and the kingdom will be handed over to God.

Those who remain will receive wrath.
Jn 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

This is the one and only judgement: it will consist of everything the Bible says about it.

I Cor 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet

This is written is present tense. Literally it says "for he is reigning until he has put all..."

Showing again, Psa 2 is fulfilled.

Grandpa · Sep 25, 2012

That was your best post yet feedm3.

How can someone with so much knowledge not have faith? Is this a common thing?

The bible says in our weakness He is strong. No one can take us from His Hand. Nothing can come between us and the Love of God. Jesus will never leave us nor forsake us.

You have knowledge of the bible saying these things but no faith in them?

I trust in Jesus. That is who I have faith in.

I don't trust in my ability to walk in the straight and narrow.

Hebrews 12:2
Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 25, 2012

Grandpa said:

A big Amen. If my faith was in myself being able to walk the straight and narrow and being perfect (the only way to save ourselves under the law) then I would be sorely lacking in faith, Thank God for the FINISHED work of Christ on the cross, which is not only the author of my faith. But what makes my faith complete. Because it is in God and his promises and not in myself and my ability.

Jesus said, it is finished, he did not say it has begun (I did my part now you do yours) why people can;t see this is beyind me, and saddens me beyond measure. But remember, the pharisees could quote the OT by heart, and could tell us anything it said. so we should not be surprised at people who appear to have alot of knowledge, for it was the same way with many of the jews,

feedm3 · Sep 25, 2012

Both of you are still caught up on a a false conclusion, based on a misunderstanding of obedience.

Maybe they are not straw men arguements as I always say, maybe you two really do not understand the difference between a work, and a duty.

A work - a good deed, even bad deeds. It is doing something, maybe being zelous, or being benelvoent, for the sake of gloiring God. These are works, and they have nothign to do with salvation. I can never do enough good deeds to deserve God's son dieing for me.

Now obedience, which includes "repentace, keeping his commands, becomong dead to sin".

Ask yourselves, is NOT sinning a good deed? is keeping Christ's commands a good deed? If we do either of these does it make us deserving?

Of course not. Why? Becuase it is a duty - Lk 17:10, Ecc 12:13

Is a "duty" and a good deed, the same? NOPE:

Here is the defintion as we use the word: "A moral or legal obligation; a responsibility: "it's my duty to uphold the law".

Here is the Greek

pheilō opheileō
of-i'-lo, of-i-leh'-o
Including its prolonged form (second form) used in certain tenses. Probably from the base of G3786 (through the idea of accruing); to owe (pecuniarily); figuratively to be under obligation (ought, must, should); morally to fail in duty: - behove, be bound, (be) debt (-or), (be) due (-ty), be guilty (indebted), (must) need (-s), ought, owe, should. See also G3785.

Here is the word translated as other words in the KJV:
ought, 15
Joh_13:14, Joh_19:7, Act_17:29, Rom_15:1, 1Co_11:7, 1Co_11:10, 2Co_12:11, 2Co_12:14, Eph_5:28, Heb_5:3, Heb_5:12, 1Jo_2:6, 1Jo_3:16, 1Jo_4:11, 3Jo_1:8

owest, 3
Mat_18:28, Luk_16:5, Luk_16:7

bound, 2
2Th_1:3, 2Th_2:13

due, 2
Mat_18:34, 1Co_7:3

duty, 2
Luk_17:10, Rom_15:27

owed, 2
Mat_18:27-28 (2), Luk_7:41

behoved, 1
Heb_2:17

debt, 1
Mat_18:30

debtor, 1
Mat_23:16

guilty, 1
Mat_23:18

indebted, 1
Luk_11:4

must, 1
1Co_5:10

need, 1
1Co_7:36

owe, 1
Rom_13:8

oweth, 1
Phm_1:18

should, 1
1Co_9:10

Notice what all these have in common, they give the idea of something that is "owed", " due", "obligated" because of what Christ has done for us.

This is why Jesus said in Luke 17:10, "when we have kept ALL what God commanded" we are "still unprofitable servant which have only done that which is our DUTY to do".

Now why on earth would any true Christian teach others that if they think they must do their DUTY TO GOD they are depending on works, and think they are deserving????

If Luke 17: 10 tells us were dont deserve anything by KEEP ALL THAT IS COMMANDED, and shows it is a duty, not a earning?

Why do you keep bringing it up?

The answer for EG is because they is all hes Got to argue against it. IF he acknowledges Luke 17:10 and ECC 12:13, then he will not be able to use the straw man of "earning works".

Grandpa, I am just asking you to read Luke 17:10 honestly, and tell me if one does his duty to God, does that make him deserving of his reward?

To even think if we must do our duty to God, and that makes us deserving of salvation is prideful in itself, which is why Christ said what he did, "You are still unprofitable servants".

That is written so on one would think them doing their duty is earning anything. EG totally ignores this as I have brought it up countless times, and he still continues on this "earning", because his downfall is that if he starts obeying God, he feels hes worthy of salvation and earning it, showing he missed the pint of Luke 17:10.

Dont make that same mistake.

So think about it. The false conclusion is based upon the false idea that keeping God's commands is not a duty, but a work, which is deserving of God's grace.

If one can come to the understanding of the message of Christ, and accept that his/her obedience is a duty, someting that is expected of us, then the whole "deserving" thing goes out the window.

Once it goes out the window, the only thing that remains, is humility, in understanding the least I can do because by Lord died for me, is my Duty, and yet still I am just an unprofitable servant.

feedm3 · Sep 25, 2012

Lol, dont worry EG i didn't take what grandpa said as a huge complement. I know that's what your on here fishing for, and would hate to see anyone else receive that.

That was really immature.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 25, 2012

feedm3 said:

There is no confusion here, Obedience is the same today as it was when Adam decided to eat of the fruit of the tree he was forbidden to eat. Obedience means to do what you are told. No ands ifs about it, We can't twist it to make it something it is not.

A work is a duty. If it is not a duty, it is not a work. The law stated that we must do many duties.

1. Obey the commands
2. Ceremonial duties
3. Sacrificial duties performed by the priests.
4. Etc Etc. All of these were duties, and they were also works. Works which never made anyone righteous, for the following reasons.

1. No one could obey the commands in the way to be righteous, as this would take never disobaying any command even once, or perfection.
2. Ceremonial duties, although they helped point to God, could never take away sin
3. Sacrificial duties also could not take away sin, we are told this specifically by the author of Hebrews, as well as the fact they could NEVER take away sin.

All these things LED them to their messiah (the redeemer) and leads us to Christ (our redeemer) as we know we can not be righteous enough to earn salvation no matter HOW GOOD WE THINK WE ARE, the law condemns us,

Your problem is you try to separate works and obedience, much like the roman catholic church, to help prove to yourself your belief is right, when there is no difference.

Place obedience in front of this defenition. It also fits. For obedience is doing something to earn something when it is said that failure to do so will cause you to lose the thing you state your not trying to earn. In other words, If I am told I can not earn something, it is a gift. But at the same time, if I do not do something (in this case be obedient to Gods commands) or I will lose it. I am contradicting myself. for I am basically saying I am being obedient to earn the right to keep something which was supposedly given to me as a gift.

There is no way around this. you can;t twist it like you do, and not contradict yourself

Are also works. Repent according to you is not a change of mind, it is the act of feeling sorry for each sin you commit, Keeping his commands is a work, It is just as much a work today as it was for the jews, we know it is work because it is impossible to do. That is why Paul in collisions said we should not impose on the gentiles things we ourselves (as jews) were unable to keep) Becoming dead to sin is also a work, because we have to fight our old nature, and this is an every day struggle, As paul made it clear in romans 7. Trying to twist things to make it not a work, when it is clearly a work to do all these things will not help your case.

1. It is impossible as the apostle john said
2. Yes it is, It is being righteous.

If your doing it;
1. To earn salvation. Yes, your trying to earn it by YOUR works of righteousness which you do
2. If it is in order to KEEP salvation, there is no difference, Your still trying to earn it by YOUR WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

Titus 3: 5 makes it clear, it is not by works of righteousness which we do. But by the washing and new birth of the HOLY SPIRIT.

The works of the law were a duty also. And it never saved anyone, Your basically saying the jews were NOTY saved by obeying their duties, But we are, thus God is placing conditions on our eternal life, when the OT saints were not given any condition

face it, If there is a condition placed on anything we recieve or might recieve, it is a work, in order to earn it.

lol. Stop twisting things, Our duty is to do good, no matter what it is. so any time we are doing good deeds, we are doing our duty! you have been fooled by religion, and you can;t even see it

No use going any further, you will continue to twist Gods word and defenition of words to your own destruction. No one can help you but God, maybe one day you will stop trusting yourself and start trusting the promises of God like Granpa said you should do., But I am losing hope. But as God says in his word, All things are possible. so all I can do is pray.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 25, 2012

feedm3 said:

1. That was not directed at you, It was directed at Grandpa.
2. If you took it any way, thats your problem
3. What is immature is taking something which was not directed at you and being childlike by calling it immature. I just stated a fact. Many people have alot of knowledge, but do not know God at all. There is no way you can deny this fact.

feedm3 · Sep 25, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

Dude you just love to hear yourself yap. So your now sayihng obedience is NOT a duty?

Your now saying Luke 17:10, is a work?

HEre maybe if you read the passages for once in your life:

Luke 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do

Let me make this as easy as possible for you, so yo dont have to write 10,000 words in an attempt to twish and distort what is so easly stated.

Here I will pretend your 10.

See the words: "when ye have done ALL those things which are commanded"?

NO see the words" "we have done thtat which was our duty to do"???

Now put them together:

that means our DUTY is to "do all those thing which are commanded".

Now do you see any good deeds their that are deserving of salvation? or would you see a DUTY that is expected of every Christian?

Would you now say it is not essential that we do our DUTY to go to heaven?

Please do not go any further, you just face the same contradictions you have been running from sense I exposed your false, inconsistent, attempt to promote sin.

I am sorry you want to convince God's children it's okay to sin, and they will receive an eternal reward for it, but I cant believe that, and I wont.

Sin will cause hell, because sin is from Satan, if you dont repent, it will as it always has will separate you from God.

I know you believe God will chase us down until we come back, yet you have nothing to prove that, and only again contradict yourself by saying one who lives in sin was never truly saved.

So quit stopping by every where I post because you cant believe someone exposed you because you feel your so smart and manipulative to those who dont study much.

You may convince them if they continue to sin grace will abound, but I am sticking to what Paul said - Rom 6:1-3

You say that was for Gnosticism, dont you get you are a type of Gnocitc, you feel you have speecial revelation that tells you that you can continue in all the sin want and go to heaven.

You can laugh it off that many here call you out on your licentiousness, it does mean its not true.

Just because you say we should not live in sin, because we will be miserable here, does not HIDE what your really saying:

Your licentiousness is really saying, YOU CAN SIN, and you will receive heaven. Just because you water down the consequences of sin to this life, you feel your really standing up for truth?

Wow. Your as false as the come, you pretend not to notice truth, consistency, logic, and it fine with me becuase I KNOW you realize youve been caught, and proved wrong, that's why your back every other week after you say "im done". You will keep coming back until you one day maybe prove something.

Dude, I use our conversations in Bible class to teach how inconsistent you OSAS, Faith ONLY folks are in your beliefs, you take the cake out of them all.

This is why you will not debate me. You already know what would happen. Debate me if you just cant stand not speaking to me. If not leave me alone.

You have heaven full of active adulterers, perverts, murders, etc, because you want to hold on to your sins.

Get a life, I am sorry if your not satified with your answers, but quit coming at me every other week, only to get caught in a pardox, run away for a week, find somtingi online you think will refute me, come back, end up in a pardox again, leave - repeat, repeat, repeat.

How many times have you told me this month, "there is no use going any further"?

When will you stick to that? It only shows your not satified with the answer you gave, or the defense of your believe, becuaed no matter how hard you pretend your right in your own eyes, deep down inside it eats you up that somone came here and did this to your doctrine to show the true message, that's why you keep coming back, hoping you will finally make ONE solid point that does not condratic someihting else you said before.

So please spare me.

feedm3 · Sep 25, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

Oh please, it's obvious what you meant here, and who you meant it about.

You just realized after I said it, how immature it really was. But your too immature to say sorry, or anything like that, so you just now in an immature way pretend you weren't talking to me responding what grandpa said to me. Whatever who cares? Lol

You know if I were a betting man, i would put all may money on the fact, I bet in your real life, you manipulate alot of people, and you feel you are good at it.

Let me tell you. Many people are just push overs, and the let you feel that way, but really they exactly what your doing. That's advise, I am sure you pretend you have no idea what I am talking about.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 25, 2012

feedm3 said:

Dude you have serious issues!

1. A licentious gospel is a gospel which says I can have mere belief and do not have to change my life. I can continue to live in sin, I do not have to do any good works. I can do whatever I want. YOU KNOW I DO NOT TEACH THIS.
2. Everytime we talk and I back you into a corner, Instead of responding to what I say, you attack me, Call me all kinds of names, State lies against me, You don't prove me wrong, or stick to what I said, you go back to your nonsense of posting a few verses and saying I like to hear myself (ad hominem attacks) THIS IS WHY I DO NOT LIKE TALKING TO YOU, YOU DO NOT WANT TO DISCUSS ANYTHING< YOU WANT TO PROVE TO THE WORLD HOW SMART YOU THINK YOU ARE AND HOW DUMB THOSE WHO DO NOT AGREE WITH YOU ARE.
3. You have not proven me wrong, You have not proven that it was our DUTY to obey the law, just like it was Isreals DUTY to obey the law. Yet paul says we ARE NOT SAVED BY OUR DUTY TO OBEY THE LAW. but you do not want to hear that, You twist things around and the only one your convincing is yourself

As I have said many times before, When you really want to discuss scripture, and not act like a baby who got his toes stepped on because someone does not agree with you. Come talk to me, Otherwise leave me alone, If I am not talking to you DON'T RESPOND.

What I told grandpa about those who have scripture knowledge fits MANY MANY PEOPLE. He asked a general question, I gave a general answer. It was not directed at you, if you feel it was, maybe you have a guilty conscience, Don;t take that out on me.

I am SAVED, I HAVE eternal life. I have GODS ASSURANCE I will be raised based on HIS plan of eternal life. I DO Obey his commands but am not perfect. I try to do it better every day, but days I take steps backwards, But I HAVE NOT been given a spirit of FEAR, I have been adopted into Gods family, If you don;t like that TOO BAD!

feedm3 · Sep 25, 2012

Ive heard this before:

11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. 12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess

wow, you used more "i"s than he did.

Maybe you two should compete to see who more righteouss

eternally-gratefull · Sep 25, 2012

feedm3 said:

wow, Does anyone else see the hate in this mans eyes?

1. He is the one claiming he is more righteous than others, that is why he is more saved.
2. I said and showed what GOD did for me, My comment was based on ALL that God did, not what I do. The I's were my position in Christ, based on the promises of God, the death of Christ, and his adopting me into his family. Not based on anything I did.

And he wonders why I hate talking to him.. I wonder if it is against the board rules for people to slander others like he just slandered me?

megaman125 · Sep 25, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

I would love to see you quote feedm3 where he claimed he was more saved or more righteous than others.

And he wonders why I hate talking to him.. I wonder if it is against the board rules for people to slander others like he just slandered me?

Click to expand...

Oh the irony. Here, let me try one for you. I wonder if it is afainst the board rules for a professing Christian to demand that another Christian drink poison in order to prove the Bible to the demanding one?

feedm3 · Sep 26, 2012

eternally-gratefull said:

I doubt anyone on CC can see my eyes (I hope not that would be creepy). Also, I dont wonder why you hate talking to me, I know why; because I wont buy in to your false words.

I am not looking of the easy way out, nor I am I going to fool myself so I can hold on to sin.

I dont care how you put icing on the cake, how pretty it looks, how humble you try to make it sound, how much you try to twist me not obeying God into trusting Him more, beneath all that, it still simply the message, you dont have to obey God to get heaven.

All the talk about "trusting God's work" "not trusting self", "I am just a filthy rag in God's eyes" Etc ONLY shows the Bible knew exactly what it's talking about when it warned of the "icing" you false teachers would try to use:

Rom 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned (what you teach is contrary to Rom 6:1-3); and avoid them. 18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple <-----They disguise the false message with humble words trying to fool the innocent, to hide the real message that will devour many

Therefore you dont have to give up sin, you CAN continue in SIN and Grace will abound - their is your true message, it's nothing new. Rom 6:1-2 Already showed that is not possible.

That's why you hate talking to me. And no, I am not going to drink poison, or jump off a cliff to prove it as you so wickedly tried with mega-man. If you hate talking to me, feel free to stop at any time, who has a gun to your head?

Bornhuman · Sep 26, 2012

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

I used to believe that it took works and obedience to be saved. I never had any peace and was always uncertain whether or not I would go to heaven if I died at that moment. Grace cancels out works and works cancels out grace. You cant have a combination of the two. God is not a father who disowns his children everytime they disobey. Kinda like a father who disowns his son everytime they fail to clean their room. That is a relationship that is rooted in legalism and fear. We do whats right not to be saved but because we are saved.

Heb 12:6

For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Heb 12:7

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Heb 12:8

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

God chastises his sons when they are disobedient. So the fact that you ar being chastised proves that you are still a son and not a bastard child or disowned, and the fact that you are being chastised proves that you have been disobedient. I dont believe that just because someone has backslidden that they have lost their salvation. If they are truly rooted in their faith then the Holy Spirit is going to convict their heart. I believe a true believer living in sin will be far more miserable than a non believer living in sin.

They way we behave matters though. We are the salt of the earth and we are to set the example. We shouldnt cause others to blaspheme the name of God because of our behavior.

eternally-gratefull · Sep 26, 2012

Bornhuman said:

Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

I used to believe that it took works and obedience to be saved. I never had any peace and was always uncertain whether or not I would go to heaven if I died at that moment. Grace cancels out works and works cancels out grace. You cant have a combination of the two. God is not a father who disowns his children everytime they disobey. Kinda like a father who disowns his son everytime they fail to clean their room. That is a relationship that is rooted in legalism and fear. We do whats right not to be saved but because we are saved.

Heb 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

Heb 12:7

If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

Heb 12:8

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

God chastises his sons when they are disobedient. So the fact that you ar being chastised proves that you are still a son and not a bastard child or disowned, and the fact that you are being chastised proves that you have been disobedient. I dont believe that just because someone has backslidden that they have lost their salvation. If they are truly rooted in their faith then the Holy Spirit is going to convict their heart. I believe a true believer living in sin will be far more miserable than a non believer living in sin.

They way we behave matters though. We are the salt of the earth and we are to set the example. We shouldnt cause others to blaspheme the name of God because of our behavior.

Amen, People like freedom will call you licentious though, They do not understand the HUGE difference between living in sin and preaching it is ok, and admitting you will not be able to stop sin, and grow from your mistakes. Like paul did in romans 7.

Grandpa · Sep 26, 2012

feedm3 said:

Both of you are still caught up on a a false conclusion, based on a misunderstanding of obedience.

Maybe they are not straw men arguements as I always say, maybe you two really do not understand the difference between a work, and a duty.

A work - a good deed, even bad deeds. It is doing something, maybe being zelous, or being benelvoent, for the sake of gloiring God. These are works, and they have nothign to do with salvation. I can never do enough good deeds to deserve God's son dieing for me.

Now obedience, which includes "repentace, keeping his commands, becomong dead to sin".

Ask yourselves, is NOT sinning a good deed? is keeping Christ's commands a good deed? If we do either of these does it make us deserving?

Of course not. Why? Becuase it is a duty - Lk 17:10, Ecc 12:13

Is a "duty" and a good deed, the same? NOPE:

Here is the defintion as we use the word: "A moral or legal obligation; a responsibility: "it's my duty to uphold the law".

Here is the Greek

pheilō opheileō
of-i'-lo, of-i-leh'-o
Including its prolonged form (second form) used in certain tenses. Probably from the base of G3786 (through the idea of accruing); to owe (pecuniarily); figuratively to be under obligation (ought, must, should); morally to fail in duty: - behove, be bound, (be) debt (-or), (be) due (-ty), be guilty (indebted), (must) need (-s), ought, owe, should. See also G3785.

Here is the word translated as other words in the KJV:
ought, 15
Joh_13:14, Joh_19:7, Act_17:29, Rom_15:1, 1Co_11:7, 1Co_11:10, 2Co_12:11, 2Co_12:14, Eph_5:28, Heb_5:3, Heb_5:12, 1Jo_2:6, 1Jo_3:16, 1Jo_4:11, 3Jo_1:8

owest, 3
Mat_18:28, Luk_16:5, Luk_16:7

bound, 2
2Th_1:3, 2Th_2:13

due, 2
Mat_18:34, 1Co_7:3

duty, 2
Luk_17:10, Rom_15:27

owed, 2
Mat_18:27-28 (2), Luk_7:41

behoved, 1
Heb_2:17

debt, 1
Mat_18:30

debtor, 1
Mat_23:16

guilty, 1
Mat_23:18

indebted, 1
Luk_11:4

must, 1
1Co_5:10

need, 1
1Co_7:36

owe, 1
Rom_13:8

oweth, 1
Phm_1:18

should, 1
1Co_9:10

Notice what all these have in common, they give the idea of something that is "owed", " due", "obligated" because of what Christ has done for us.

This is why Jesus said in Luke 17:10, "when we have kept ALL what God commanded" we are "still unprofitable servant which have only done that which is our DUTY to do".

Now why on earth would any true Christian teach others that if they think they must do their DUTY TO GOD they are depending on works, and think they are deserving????

If Luke 17: 10 tells us were dont deserve anything by KEEP ALL THAT IS COMMANDED, and shows it is a duty, not a earning?

Why do you keep bringing it up?

The answer for EG is because they is all hes Got to argue against it. IF he acknowledges Luke 17:10 and ECC 12:13, then he will not be able to use the straw man of "earning works".

Grandpa, I am just asking you to read Luke 17:10 honestly, and tell me if one does his duty to God, does that make him deserving of his reward?

To even think if we must do our duty to God, and that makes us deserving of salvation is prideful in itself, which is why Christ said what he did, "You are still unprofitable servants".

That is written so on one would think them doing their duty is earning anything. EG totally ignores this as I have brought it up countless times, and he still continues on this "earning", because his downfall is that if he starts obeying God, he feels hes worthy of salvation and earning it, showing he missed the pint of Luke 17:10.

Dont make that same mistake.

So think about it. The false conclusion is based upon the false idea that keeping God's commands is not a duty, but a work, which is deserving of God's grace.

If one can come to the understanding of the message of Christ, and accept that his/her obedience is a duty, someting that is expected of us, then the whole "deserving" thing goes out the window.

Once it goes out the window, the only thing that remains, is humility, in understanding the least I can do because by Lord died for me, is my Duty, and yet still I am just an unprofitable servant.

Our duty is to abide in the vine. All work and fruit will proceed from that abiding, in Christ.

Then our "duty" isn't a duty at all, but a blessing from God.

Just like our salvation is a blessing from God, our walk in faith is also a blessing from God. He is the Author and Finisher of our Life in Him.

You must have faith in the Lord. Not just for your initial salvation, but for all the trials that will come after it as well. If God is for us, who can be against us?

Just as God is eternal, His salvation is eternal as well. The blood of the Lamb is most precious and powerful. Perhaps that is the misunderstanding of people that think salvation is cheap, easy or temporary.

megaman125 · Sep 26, 2012

A question for you Grandpa. What does it take to be saved?

feedm3 · Sep 26, 2012

Grandpa said:

Thats sweet, but why not let the Bible tell you what your duty is instead of yourself?

Luke 17:10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do

Eg says Jesus said this to Israel so it was ONLY their Job to their duty.

That is absurd. Jesus gave this illustration to teach all men, their responsibility to God.

To say this does not apply to us, is to flat out reject the words of Christ.

SO what do you think?

Here is the remote context that supports what Jesus said is to all men:

Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man

Do you think that mans duty of keeping his commands stopped in the NT, Like Eg teaches?

You speak of "abiding in the vine", what does it mean to abide in the vine? Can you abide in the vine without keeping his commands?

1Jn 2:6 He that saith he abideth in himought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The word " ought" in this passages, is the same Greek word found in Luke 17:10 that means your "duty".

"duty" and "ought" are both from the same word "phelio"
Definition:
opheilō / opheileō
Thayer Definition:
1) to owe
1a) to owe money, be in debt for
1a1) that which is due, the debt
2) metaphorically the goodwill due
Part of Speech: verb

So John is saying here, if you abide in Him, it is your obligation, duty, you owe, your debt, to walk as HE did.

Just as Jesus said "keeping his commands" is our "duty". You two really think we dont have to do our duty?

How did he walk?
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

So that's how he walked, the next passages is clear that we do the same:
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him

I am showing you scripture, I am interpreting passages with other passages, words with the usage of the same word.

You all keep writing these long statements of your faith, which consist of only your opinions.

I Jn 2:6 shows what one needs to do to ABIDE in HIM grandpa.

YOu and EG are saying, we do NOT have to keep our duty to God, and EG is say now it is impossible to stop sinning. (wonder why he would think that?)

He also tells you one who has not repented and shown a changed life was never saved, now he says it's impossible to stop??????

He does not understand it is licentiousness to teach their are no eternal consequence for sin among the Christians.

that implies a christian can sin and still go to heaven. Which contradicts much of the Bible, and himself saying one must repent.

It does not matter if he will not explicit say this, and hide it under "you should not sin, your life here will be miserable", of course that is not true at all.

Many indulge in sin, live for the world, in the world, and enjoy every minute of it. They may have been chastised at one time, yet obviously they did not hear, and continued in their serving the god of this world.

Listen to the word of God, by it you will be judged - Jn 12:48 - the same word Jesus spoke to Israel and us.

Jn 12:48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

Those who "reject" him, and "recieve" not his words are not limited to the Jews.

Anyone who says we can live in sin and go to heaven are "rejecting him" and "not receiving" his words.

EG will not receive Luke 17:10 as he says it does not apply to us, but the Jews. EG it would do you some good to read the passage below:

I Pet 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear

1. Christians will be judged eternally
2. Those who "do not obey the gospel" (not believe, obey) will fact God's wrath.
3. If the righteousness are "scarcely saved" barley saved -whats the point? see below
4. How shall the ungodly AND SINNER in which EG teaches it's impossible not to be?

How long will you all reject the words of Christ? one day it will be too late to repent, do it now.

Eternal Security - If saved, always saved! Part 1. - By David Stewart

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