Eternal Security - If saved, always saved! Part 1. - By David Stewart

[eternally-gratefull]

Nope, you just did not understand what Gal was saying to the Jewish folk who under the law. You really thought you were lead to Christ by the law. You said it, not me.

How can the law be written in your heart if you feel you do not have to obey God? You have made your own law, in which you can continue in all the sin you want and"

1. either have never been saved
2. Be brought back by God

know which is it today? Will living in sin show we were never saved, or will living in sin bring about chastisments so we return to the faith?

I seriously dont know which one your teaching today, so why dont you tell me. If a professed Christians begins living in sin, what happens? Was he never saved, or will he be brought back.

or you can ignore and pretend you didn't say this, and remain the corner you've backed yourself into every since our first post with each other.

I will just let scripture speak on this issue, although I doubt one will actually read it.

Romans 1:

20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead,

so that they are without excuse,

21 because, although they knew God,

they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man—and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality,[c] wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving,[d] unmerciful;




and now the most important part of this passage, which according paul, started at the beginning of time, LONG before moses was given one law.


32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.

How can one know, unless Gods law was written in their hearts. how can they have excuse if there was no law. how can they know to do good, but have failed if their is no law. how can they be held accountable for sin when they can not know sin is sin.. How can a Gentile even during the mosaic period know when the law was NOT given to them, the same reason those before the law was given. How can we today know the same thing they knew? the same way, It is what leads us to God.

As paul said, THEY HAVE NO EXCUSE

 

[feedm3]

I don't know what your issue is, But you have major problems with reality.

I teach one gospel. Faith in the finished work of Christ. and you know it, your just to blind to admit it. You hate it when people do not agree with you. Your vendetta against me shows your lack of humility

Really, who comes to on here. Do I go around posting everywhere you do? Nope, only you seem to land everywhere I am, only because your disccussed with yourself and how you cannot handle properly defending what you teach. I know it eats you up because your so self involved, you have to be right.

If your saying we must obey a set of rules and regulations, then yes, legalistic.

So was Paul a legalistic? He said we must obey God many times:
He said the disobedient will receive God's wrath, does that make him a legalsit?

What about the Lord?

He said if you dont keep his commands you do not love him. John said the same in I Jn, we abide in him BY KEEPING HIS COMMANDS

II JN 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

SO IF WE DO NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDS, WE DO NOT "KNOW HIM", AND IF YOU SAY YOU DO, AND DONT KEEP HIS COMMANDS YOUR A LIAR:

SO EITHER YOU DO KEEP HIS COMMANDS AND TEACH OTHERS THEY DONT HAVE TO, WHICH IS NOT KEEPING HIS COMMANDS, AND MAKES YOU A LIAR ACCORDING TO JOHN.

SO WHO SOULD I BELIEVE HERE, JOHN OR YOU? Is John a legalist for saying in order to know him we have to keep his commands, becuase that would mean their are a "set of rules" we must follow?

Explian, how I can go to heaven without knowing Christ?

You say we cannot keep all his commands, John says if we dont we do not know him, so does mean like James, we have to keep at least ONE command?

Lol. is Heb 5:9 a legalist passage? It says he is giving eternal life to the obedient? Hmmmm

wrong. I never stated we would have at least one work. James says if we have zero works our faith is dead. Paul says if we are saved BY FAITH, we will work.

Dude, YES YOU DID through implication:

You said this "James says if we have ZERO works our faith is dead".

Never mind the fact he never said "zero" that you.

But what does your statement imply?????

If James says one has zero works has dead faith, that implies I must have some or at least one, work to NOT have DEAD FAITH - TRUE OR FALSE

Does your statement IMPLY that conclusion or not? IF not, then explain EXACTLY what you mean by saying ONLY those with ZERO works have dead faith.

Or James is just saying we must be working as in obedience because it's our duty of saying we have a faith.

Ever notice the passages that say "obedient to the faith", every wonder what that means?

Just answer the implication, thats all, please, or just go somewhere.

Again, James, Jude and Paul state this, your argument is with them.

Why do you always say this? I dont have an argument with neither, I accept what they say. we must have works as in obedience, we must submit to Christ and love him by keeping his commands.

My argument is not with James or Jude, my arguuement is with your contradicting statements concerning James and Jude. Nice try, that only works on those you fool around you, not on everyone.

This is rediculous, I have never stated this, your making stuff up. Get a life why don't you. Do you think you are all that? Your vendetta makes you look foolish, in that you now have to make stuff up.

Like I said, you always accuse people of what your doing thinking it turns the tables. It does not. Stop being a cry baby because you cant speak without a contradiction. Just stop speaking or stop contradicting yourself.

Of course you can only do that if you accept the gospel and stop making up your own, because you are unwilling to let go of certain sins.

That is the only motive i can think of why someone who calls themself a christian would want to convince other christians they do not have ot obey God to go to heaven, knowing all the passages you have to reject, twist, and ignore to say that. it's sad, i dont feel sorry for you, but for those your fooling.

There are no contradictions. There is you adding words to what i say, and twisting other things I say, the contradiction is in your head.

this just proves you can see the contradictions, and proves you lie. You know yove said this, I have to go find them and paste them for you several times, then you get mad and leave for a week.

What the point of me doing that again. If your going to say you never said those things, I am really done with you, because your just a prideful person who is lying if you deny you said that.


LOL. Red believes in a licentious gospel. the gospel you claim I believe in. If anything, the fact you are both coming at me helps my cause, because you both prove what I have said all along, the legalist calls me licentious, and the licentious calls me a legalist. Keep on talking, Your pride, your vendetta and your lies keep coming forth and prove your real self righteous attitude,

Okay, explain. What is a licentious gospel? Teaching we can sin?

So you say "no we should not sin" because "we will receive earthly consequences".

Do you know how many people stay in sin, because of what you teach? DO you how many people are fine with earthly consequences as a trade for a sinful life of pleasure?

You just changed the consequences of not repenting, and YOU ARE SAYING A CHRISTIAN CAN LIVE IN SIN AND WILL STILL GO TO HEAVEN

Is this not what your saying? Never-mind the earthly consequences, are you not saying a Christian who lives in sin, will be saved?

Your going to have alot to answer for, I hope you dont think acting sincere in your belief will save you if your wrong. IF you think that your unfamiliar with God and his word.

 

[megaman125]

Obeying infers that there is a chance that something may not be obeyed. Salvation is not contingent on that.

Jesus says no man can come to me except the Father who sent me draw him. This is more of a leading than an obeying. There aren't any conditions on this except that a saved person is first drawn by God.

Who is the Author and Finisher of our Faith and Salvation? Not us. Not our works or our obedience cause us to be saved or have faith. I would say it is our very disobedience and inability to be obedient that causes us to have faith in the Lord, in someone necessarily more powerful than ourselves.

So are you saying we don't have to obey the Bible to be saved?

Are you saying that one can reject the Bible and still be saved?

I just want to clarify what you're saying, you're free to answer the questions anyway you want. Although, since they are basic yes/no questions, I would appreciate if you address each question by starting with a yes or no.

 

[Grandpa]

Then you are a robot who rolled off the production line disobedient and unable to obey unless God, the Master Programmer, comes along a reprograms you and makes you obey.

That is the heresy of Augustine, Luther and Calvin.

There is no personal responsibility in any of that whatsoever. Men are mere pawns subject to whatever program has been forced upon them, whether it be the rebellion program or the obedience program.

What nonsense!



Rom 2
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

You can call me whatever you like. I went most of my life chained by sin. It was only after I cried out to the Lord for help that I found myself un-bound to sin. After the Lord saved me I found a desire to be holy, like He is holy. I never had that desire before.

If you want to call it re-programming, I would say that is a pretty good description. Our minds are washed and made new by the washing of the Word of God.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Salvation isn't some theoretical concept that you can provide a formula to achieve and it only goes to the most obedient... That is ridiculous.

Salvation is Jesus Christ Himself, friend of sinners.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Really, who comes to on here. Do I go around posting everywhere you do? Nope, only you seem to land everywhere I am, only because your disccussed with yourself and how you cannot handle properly defending what you teach. I know it eats you up because your so self involved, you have to be right.








So was Paul a legalistic? He said we must obey God many times:
He said the disobedient will receive God's wrath, does that make him a legalsit?

What about the Lord?

He said if you dont keep his commands you do not love him. John said the same in I Jn, we abide in him BY KEEPING HIS COMMANDS

II JN 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

SO IF WE DO NOT KEEP HIS COMMANDS, WE DO NOT "KNOW HIM", AND IF YOU SAY YOU DO, AND DONT KEEP HIS COMMANDS YOUR A LIAR:

SO EITHER YOU DO KEEP HIS COMMANDS AND TEACH OTHERS THEY DONT HAVE TO, WHICH IS NOT KEEPING HIS COMMANDS, AND MAKES YOU A LIAR ACCORDING TO JOHN.

SO WHO SOULD I BELIEVE HERE, JOHN OR YOU? Is John a legalist for saying in order to know him we have to keep his commands, becuase that would mean their are a "set of rules" we must follow?

Explian, how I can go to heaven without knowing Christ?

You say we cannot keep all his commands, John says if we dont we do not know him, so does mean like James, we have to keep at least ONE command?

Lol. is Heb 5:9 a legalist passage? It says he is giving eternal life to the obedient? Hmmmm

Dude, YES YOU DID through implication:

You said this "James says if we have ZERO works our faith is dead".

Never mind the fact he never said "zero" that you.

But what does your statement imply?????

If James says one has zero works has dead faith, that implies I must have some or at least one, work to NOT have DEAD FAITH - TRUE OR FALSE

Does your statement IMPLY that conclusion or not? IF not, then explain EXACTLY what you mean by saying ONLY those with ZERO works have dead faith.

Or James is just saying we must be working as in obedience because it's our duty of saying we have a faith.

Ever notice the passages that say "obedient to the faith", every wonder what that means?

Just answer the implication, thats all, please, or just go somewhere.



Why do you always say this? I dont have an argument with neither, I accept what they say. we must have works as in obedience, we must submit to Christ and love him by keeping his commands.

My argument is not with James or Jude, my arguuement is with your contradicting statements concerning James and Jude. Nice try, that only works on those you fool around you, not on everyone.







Like I said, you always accuse people of what your doing thinking it turns the tables. It does not. Stop being a cry baby because you cant speak without a contradiction. Just stop speaking or stop contradicting yourself.

Of course you can only do that if you accept the gospel and stop making up your own, because you are unwilling to let go of certain sins.

That is the only motive i can think of why someone who calls themself a christian would want to convince other christians they do not have ot obey God to go to heaven, knowing all the passages you have to reject, twist, and ignore to say that. it's sad, i dont feel sorry for you, but for those your fooling.




this just proves you can see the contradictions, and proves you lie. You know yove said this, I have to go find them and paste them for you several times, then you get mad and leave for a week.

What the point of me doing that again. If your going to say you never said those things, I am really done with you, because your just a prideful person who is lying if you deny you said that.


LOL. Red believes in a licentious gospel. the gospel you claim I believe in. If anything, the fact you are both coming at me helps my cause, because you both prove what I have said all along, the legalist calls me licentious, and the licentious calls me a legalist. Keep on talking, Your pride, your vendetta and your lies keep coming forth and prove your real self righteous attitude,

Okay, explain. What is a licentious gospel? Teaching we can sin?

So you say "no we should not sin" because "we will receive earthly consequences".

Do you know how many people stay in sin, because of what you teach? DO you how many people are fine with earthly consequences as a trade for a sinful life of pleasure?

You just changed the consequences of not repenting, and YOU ARE SAYING A CHRISTIAN CAN LIVE IN SIN AND WILL STILL GO TO HEAVEN

Is this not what your saying? Never-mind the earthly consequences, are you not saying a Christian who lives in sin, will be saved?

Your going to have alot to answer for, I hope you dont think acting sincere in your belief will save you if your wrong. IF you think that your unfamiliar with God and his word.

Your long posts are rediculous, And you don't prove anything. Thats why no one can discuss anything with you. Stop putting words in my mouth. Stop twisting my words. And stop trying to be a no it all. Your not convincing anyone.

 

[feedm3]

How do you know? My posts are so long becuse I have to repeat everything you say to show you your own implications, then like every other time Ive pointed them out, you just run from them. Thanks for the perfect example of that. I said it over and over, whenever anyone calls you out on the ONLY conclusions your statments make, you just cry "you twisted my words". Whatever man how many people on this site have to tell you contraindicating yourself?

 

[Grandpa]

So are you saying we don't have to obey the Bible to be saved?

Are you saying that one can reject the Bible and still be saved?

I just want to clarify what you're saying, you're free to answer the questions anyway you want. Although, since they are basic yes/no questions, I would appreciate if you address each question by starting with a yes or no.

Obedience comes after Salvation. You are unable to obey the bible until AFTER you are saved. But I suppose the desire to be obedient is what causes us to come to Christ. There are no conditions attached to salvation,except that you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, but there are fruits of salvation, obedience being one of them.
What it boils down to is that if you could obey the bible what would you need to be saved for, or from?

The knowledge that is contained in the bible is what leads one to faith in Jesus Christ and Salvation. So no, you can't reject the bible and be saved because that would be rejecting Christ and you can't be saved without Him.

 

[Skinski7]

i love this.i have many times felt like when i have back slid that i lost my salvation but my pastor said i didnt.i am trying so hard to keep a close and personal relationship with the father and the son.

Your conscience was convicting you of your rebellion and you then went to your pastor to hear "ye shall surely not die."

That pastor is a wolf in the clothing of a sheep.

Jesus once taught a parable of what the kingdom of heaven was like.

Mat 18:23 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
Mat 18:24 And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
Mat 18:25 But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
Mat 18:26 The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:27 Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
Mat 18:28 But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
Mat 18:29 And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
Mat 18:30 And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
Mat 18:31 So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
Mat 18:32 Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
Mat 18:33 Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

There is Jesus teaching a parable about an individual who had his debt forgiven but was later cut off because of his evil deeds.

Ezekiel the prophet gave a similar admonition.

Eze 18:26 When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.
​

Eze 18:27 Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive.
Eze 18:28 Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
Eze 18:29 Yet saith the house of Israel, The way of the Lord is not equal. O house of Israel, are not my ways equal? are not your ways unequal?
Eze 18:30 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

God is going to judge all men by their deeds.

Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

Those who gain eternal life are the ones who continue in well doing.

Paul reiterated this point about continuing in Romans 11.

Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Satan's ministers will teach that you can sin and not surely die. Don't believe them, believe the Bible for it means exactly what it says.

The deceivers will take singly scriptures like Joh 6:39 and will completely isolate them from the context of scripture and then use it to dogmatically prove what tickles their ears.

Joh_6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

If Paul said you can be cut off for not continuing in patient well doing he meant it.

It is the overcomer that will be granted eternal life.

Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Carefully read the following warning...

Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

It may not be what you want to hear but it is better to deal with reality now than at the judgment.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRiqQDSqGtY[/video]

 

[Skinski7]

Obedience comes after Salvation. You are unable to obey the bible until AFTER you are saved. But I suppose the desire to be obedient is what causes us to come to Christ. There are no conditions attached to salvation,except that you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, but there are fruits of salvation, obedience being one of them.
What it boils down to is that if you could obey the bible what would you need to be saved for, or from?

The knowledge that is contained in the bible is what leads one to faith in Jesus Christ and Salvation. So no, you can't reject the bible and be saved because that would be rejecting Christ and you can't be saved without Him.

Returning to obedience cannot undo the condemnation wrought by rebellion to God.

This is why Jesus offered Himself for these PAST SINS which we cannot undo.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

The conscience is purged from all dead works.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Here are two people who obeyed God.

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Inability is a deception.

Cain should have ruled over his sin, he chose not to.

Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

 

[Skinski7]

The following scriptures are seldom used by the wolves who would deceive you dear reader.

Take note that is...

Obedience unto Righteousness.
Righteousness unto Holiness.
Holiness unto Eternal Life.

You are a slave to who YOU OBEY. Whether of sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. Do not be deceived by anyone who tells you that you can obey sin and surely not die.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Returning to obedience cannot undo the condemnation wrought by rebellion to God.

This is why Jesus offered Himself for these PAST SINS which we cannot undo.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Paul spoke of sin commited from adam until the time of Christ's death here, not our own past sins. that would be a misrepresentation of what Paul said. Jesus paid for every sin, from adam until the last sin ever commited by the last man on earth. Not just our past sins.

The conscience is purged from all dead works.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Here are two people who obeyed God.

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Inability is a deception.

so your saying they were sinless, and did not need Christ? Romans 3: 23 was wrong and in error?

Cain should have ruled over his sin, he chose not to.

Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Cain tried to make God happy his own way, by human good, he rejected the thing which God told him to do (sacrifice) which would have shown him what God would do to pay for his sin, instead he tried to appease God by the fruit of his labor. God rejected his human good, and cain God angry.

Cains human good is no different than any human good throughout mankinds history, even today.

 

[Skinski7]

Originally Posted by christianmotherof32011

i love this.i have many times felt like when i have back slid that i lost my salvation but my pastor said i didnt.i am trying so hard to keep a close and personal relationship with the father and the son.

God did not give us a spirit of fear. But a spirit of adoption whereby we cry out abba father. It is good you feel the chastening of God and the guilth which comes with sin, for it brings you back to him, Just remember, he loves you unconditionally. because it is all based on his promise, not how good you try to be,m because you will never be good enough to earn his love.

In other words, your conduct doesn't matter. You can sin and surely not die.


Pe 2:14 Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Pe 2:16 But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.

 

[Grandpa]

Your conscience was convicting you of your rebellion and you then went to your pastor to hear "ye shall surely not die."

That pastor is a wolf in the clothing of a sheep.

Jesus once taught a parable of what the kingdom of heaven was like.

To Christianmotherof32011

There is no reason for this and I hope you don't listen to anything Skinski says.

Discouragement is a ploy of the enemy. You have already won the victory, through Christ. The enemy can only now try to convince you of your defeat with discouragement in this natural life.

Don't listen to those who try to discourage you. Listen to those who would edify. Remember who saved you. If you have questions on whether or not you are still saved ask Him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The following scriptures are seldom used by the wolves who would deceive you dear reader.

Take note that is...

Obedience unto Righteousness.
Righteousness unto Holiness.
Holiness unto Eternal Life.

You are a slave to who YOU OBEY. Whether of sin unto death or obedience unto righteousness. Do not be deceived by anyone who tells you that you can obey sin and surely not die.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

wow talk about twisting what Paul said.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

They WERE (past tense) Slaves to sin. But have now since OBEYED the gospel (of faith) which paulo gave to them. and recieved Christ.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Now he is talking present tesne. We were made FREE from sin, and are NOW servants of righteousness.

What separated the two. what became the dividing line between slave of sin and righteousness? The gospel of Christ, which we have heard. Not our ability to do one or the other. or how good or bad we succeed at it.


Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

We are given two things.

1. we are now servants of God, being set free from being slaves to sin
2. We have been given eternal life. Not maybe, Not conditional. Not we might have, BUT WE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE


if people would read with open minds, and not in the blind stupor of our own belief system, we might see what we say makes no sense. And what you claim supports your view makes no sense.

 

[megaman125]

Obedience comes after Salvation. You are unable to obey the bible until AFTER you are saved. But I suppose the desire to be obedient is what causes us to come to Christ. There are no conditions attached to salvation,except that you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, but there are fruits of salvation, obedience being one of them.
What it boils down to is that if you could obey the bible what would you need to be saved for, or from?

The knowledge that is contained in the bible is what leads one to faith in Jesus Christ and Salvation. So no, you can't reject the bible and be saved because that would be rejecting Christ and you can't be saved without Him.

Well, you didn't answer the first question with a yes/no like I asked.

You did say no in regards to rejecting the Bible.

As for your question, if you're obeying the Bible, would you not be a follower of Christ and therefore saved? (Then again, I'm still waiting for you to give me a direct yes/no answer to the first question, which you evaded that part.)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To Christianmotherof32011

There is no reason for this and I hope you don't listen to anything Skinski says.

Discouragement is a ploy of the enemy. You have already won the victory, through Christ. The enemy can only now try to convince you of your defeat with discouragement in this natural life.

Don't listen to those who try to discourage you. Listen to those who would edify. Remember who saved you. If you have questions on whether or not you are still saved ask Him.

Thats why I hate their legalism and putting rules on Gods grace, it tears us down, and makes us question God's love. Gods love is unquestionable, he loved us when we were his enemy, how much more now that we are his children will he love us.

 

[Skinski7]

Paul spoke of sin commited from adam until the time of Christ's death here, not our own past sins. that would be a misrepresentation of what Paul said. Jesus paid for every sin, from adam until the last sin ever commited by the last man on earth. Not just our past sins.

That is not what Peter taught.

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


Strip away all the fluff and the bottom line is you teach you can sin and surely not die. Anyone who teaches that you must forsake your sin as a condition for repentance you attack with your lies.

You so want to believe that you can sin and surely not die, that conduct has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation.

You are a blind leader of the blind.

You cannot be a partaker of the divine nature unless you first escape the corruption that is in the world through lust.

No-one has escape the corruption that is in the world through lust if they are still sinning every day.


You never make a distinction between sins unto death and sins not unto death as John does. Yet you isolate 1Joh 1:8 totally out of context and use it to support that you can sin and surely not die. In fact you teach that YOU WILL SIN and surely not die.

Exactly what sin do you just have to do? You must be an automatic sinning machine to believe that. That is bondage for you are a slave to whom you obey.

The only sin that ought be in a true Christian's life be sins committed unintentionally due to ignorance. Willful sin is out of the question because it is willful sin which cuts you off from God and puts you under condemnation.

God does not wink at willful rebellion.

 

[Grandpa]

Returning to obedience cannot undo the condemnation wrought by rebellion to God.

This is why Jesus offered Himself for these PAST SINS which we cannot undo.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

The conscience is purged from all dead works.

Heb 9:14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Here are two people who obeyed God.

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Inability is a deception.

Cain should have ruled over his sin, he chose not to.

Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

You keep pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. Apparently it is working for you.

For me, I have to rely on Jesus Christ. I am weak. I fall to all kinds of ploys of the enemy. But only temporarily. Because when I rely on Jesus He helps me to overcome. He helped me the first time and He has helped me all the times after that. There is no reason to believe He will stop helping me. That is faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/b]
That is not what Peter taught.

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.


Strip away all the fluff and the bottom line is you teach you can sin and surely not die. Anyone who teaches that you must forsake your sin as a condition for repentance you attack with your lies.

You so want to believe that you can sin and surely not die, that conduct has nothing whatsoever to do with salvation.

You are a blind leader of the blind.

You cannot be a partaker of the divine nature unless you first escape the corruption that is in the world through lust.

No-one has escape the corruption that is in the world through lust if they are still sinning every day.


You never make a distinction between sins unto death and sins not unto death as John does. Yet you isolate 1Joh 1:8 totally out of context and use it to support that you can sin and surely not die. In fact you teach that YOU WILL SIN and surely not die.

Exactly what sin do you just have to do? You must be an automatic sinning machine to believe that. That is bondage for you are a slave to whom you obey.

The only sin that ought be in a true Christian's life be sins committed unintentionally due to ignorance. Willful sin is out of the question because it is willful sin which cuts you off from God and puts you under condemnation.

God does not wink at willful rebellion.
[/color]

Peter was talking about our old lifestyle. He is not saying we are only forgiven of past sin.

Jesus died 2000 years ago, did he pick and chose which sin to die for and redeem. If Christ did not die for our future sin, we are doomed forever the first sin we commit after we are supposedly saved, and have no hope of eternal life, because thet sin was not paid for.

 

[Skinski7]

Paul never coddled people in their sins. He said this...

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.


No whormonger, not unclean person, not covetous man, no idolator has any inheritance in the kingdom of God. Therefore do not partake in these actions.

It is so simple.

Forsake evil and yield to God.