Eternal Security You CANNOT lose your salvation! by David J. Stewart | January 2004

[FreeNChrist]

You have free will my dear man.

If you had free will to accept God,
Do you now become a slave or puppet to Him?

NO.

You still have free will.
Your free will allows you to abandon Him.

Are you married?
If your wife wants to leave you, for whatever reason, and wants to be away from you,
and you FORCE HER AGAINST HER FREE WILL to stay with you,

Is that a satisfying relationship?

Do you think GOD wants any LESS than you, a mere human, wants???

God desires that you love Him freely.

If you WANT TO LEAVE HIM, He ALLOWS you to leave Him.

You're not thinking. You can't leave Him because wherever you go He's going with you and He has promised to never leave you. We have been spiritually united with God, that is a union that cannot be broken by man, and will not be broken by God. And you should thank God for that.

You are now His. You were purchased at a great price. And He fully intends to have you.

 

[FranC]

The early church fathers got some stuff right. They certainly didn't get everything right. Nor did they have everything revealed to them at that time.

OK.
But who do you suppose knows more?
Them
or John Calvin, born in the 1,500's?


Who knows more about John F. Kennedy?
His wife and kids and family and friends and friends of friends,

or

some guy who wants to read about him and write a book and will be born in 2200?

I'm only going up 240 years instead of 1,500.
Giving you a break.

So? Who knows more?

 

[FreeNChrist]

OK.
But who do you suppose knows more?
Them
or John Calvin, born in the 1,500's?


Who knows more about John F. Kennedy?
His wife and kids and family and friends and friends of friends,

or

some guy who wants to read about him and write a book and will be born in 2200?

I'm only going up 240 years instead of 1,500.
Giving you a break.

So? Who knows more?

Like I said, they got some stuff right, and some stuff wrong. Just as Luther, Calvin and all the rest.

 

[FranC]

You're not thinking. You can't leave Him because wherever you go He's going with you and He has promised to never leave you. We have been spiritually united with God, that is a union that cannot be broken by man, and will not be broken by God. And you should thank God for that.

You are now His. You were purchased at a great price. And He fully intends to have you.

I thank God every day.

Romans 12:17-24

Romans 12:20
"Quite right. They were broken off for their UNBELIEF, But you STAND BY YOUR FAITH, do not be conceited but fear, for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you..." NASB

They were broken off because of UNBELIEF.

BELIEVE AND YOU WILL BE SAVED.
DO NOT BELIEVE AND YOU WILL NOT BE SAVED. (whenever the unbelief occurs.

FAITH SAVES

NO FAITH, NO SALVATION

Are you so afraid of loosing your faith one day that you have to beleve this false doctrine???
God will keep you safe, as long as you desire it.

 

[FranC]

Like I said, they got some stuff right, and some stuff wrong. Just as Luther, Calvin and all the rest.

I'd say that Calvin got a lot wrong.
He made up a Whole different God.
One I DO NOT KNOW.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I'd say that Calvin got a lot wrong.
He made up a Whole different God.
One I DO NOT KNOW.

And I wouldn't totally disagree with you.

 

[FreeNChrist]

I thank God every day.

Romans 12:17-24

Romans 12:20
"Quite right. They were broken off for their UNBELIEF, But you STAND BY YOUR FAITH, do not be conceited but fear, for if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will He spare you..." NASB

They were broken off because of UNBELIEF.

BELIEVE AND YOU WILL BE SAVED.
DO NOT BELIEVE AND YOU WILL NOT BE SAVED. (whenever the unbelief occurs.

FAITH SAVES

NO FAITH, NO SALVATION

Are you so afraid of loosing your faith one day that you have to beleve this false doctrine???
God will keep you safe, as long as you desire it.

God will keep me safe because He desires it.

 

[FranC]

This is what believers in the grace of our Lord Jesus have to say about "sanctification"..the word itself means = "to be set apart"

We are perfectly sanctified in Christ now....very true....we as an identity the new creation in Christ will never be more holy.

However there is a "sanctifying" of our behavior that is on-going that reflects our true nature in Christ...so in essence...we are becoming outwardly who we really are in our inner man which is in Christ.

God sets apart ( sanctifies ) our attitudes and actions outwardly but you are 100% set apart ( sanctified ) as a person..the real you in your inner man..the new creation in Christ.

Hebrews 10:14 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified.

( who are sanctified this is present passive..passive is that something is being done to you continuously in the present tense...the Spirit of the Lord in us changing us. )

Here is what Jesus told Paul on the road to Damascus....having been sanctified ( perfect passive ).

Perfect tense =The perfect tense in Greek is used to describe a completed past action which produced results which are still in effect all the way up to the present. This is continuously happening in the present.

Passive means something is being done to you - you are not doing it.

Acts 26:17 (NASB)

[SUP]18 [/SUP] to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.' (perfect passive )

It is obvious from scripture that we are to walk out the holiness that is in us.

There is a difference between us as a person being "set apart" ( sanctified in our spirit ) and "setting apart " ( sanctifying ) our behavior.

1 Peter 1:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;

[SUP]16 [/SUP] because it is written, "YOU SHALL BE HOLY, FOR I AM HOLY."

Very good.

There is only one aspect of this that is not right.

Justification is an act of God. Man does nothing. He comes to know and want God, to be a part of the Kingdom, he does nothing else, God does the rest. God Justifies this person. He is saved, he is made Whole, he is as if he never sinned and is accepted into the family of God.

Sanctificiation is a co.operative work. God gives man the Holy Spirit to help him. God gave us Jesus to love so that by that love we feel we WANT to obey His two very important commandments and do all He said in Mathew 25.

However, it is a CO.OPERATIVE work. It takes two. Think of when you're tempted by something. You can CHOOSE to sin or to not sin. In this way it's a cooperative effort. It's not as if the Holy Spirit keeps you from sinning.

This is known as sinless perfection and is an incorrect doctrine. It's impossible to NEVER sin.

Otherwise, I agree with all you've said.

 

[wsblind]

Excuse me.

If you are RUNNING FROM HIM (your words)

HOW IS HE YOUR LORD???

There are only two directions to go.

Running TOWARD God
Or running toward the enemy.

If you're running FROM GOD
You're running TOWARD the enemy.

If you're running from Him (God)
HOW COULD YOU STILL BE SAVED, if you're running to satan???

Your running from Him. You are putting His Character,virtue and very eternal nature in question.

We are His body, a part of Him. He will never leave us........we are a part of Him.

29for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30because we are members of His body. 31FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. 32This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.

 

[dcontroversal]

Like I said, they got some stuff right, and some stuff wrong. Just as Luther, Calvin and all the rest.

Really the whole argument is moot......the bible is the rule of faith and practice....not what some man believes and or taught...Paul even covers this in in 2nd Thessalonians....(even a letter as from us)....

 

[FranC]

God will keep me safe because He desires it.

God will keep you safe because YOU desire it.

Colossians 1:21-23 New International Version (NIV)

21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of[a] your evil behavior.
22 But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—
23 if you continue in your faith, established and firm, and do not move from the hope held out in the gospel. This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.

 

[Grace777x70]

There is absolutely no scripture in the NT that says a person loses their salvation in Christ once they are sealed with the Holy Spirit.

This OSAS and losing one's salvation debates are both man-made. Jesus and the apostles always talked about "life."

Anytime we think that our performance has anything to do with being with the Lord for eternity is legalistic and actually nullifies the very grace needed to experience His quality of life in this earth.

Personally I have not found one scripture that says that the believer who has Christ joined as one spirit in their spirit - ever gets kicked out of Christ. I see lot's of warning scriptures about walking by the flesh and that people will lose out on the life of Christ being experienced on this earth.

People believe with the heart and once that happens - we are joined as one spirit with the Lord and sealed by the Holy Spirit. People can say things if they have their minds all screwed up but that doesn't change their hearts where Jesus dwells.

God looks on the heart - man looks at the outward appearances.

People so often do not understand the "why" of the gospel and thus really miss out on the security that is ours in the Lord. This whole discussion about OSAS and losing one's salvation is never talked about in the NT. It is a man-made thing.

Jesus and the apostles always talked about "life" and experiencing that life both on this earth and for eternity.


We need to preach and teach the grace and love of God in Christ towards us so that we can have the proper nutrients to grow up in Him.

This is still true....

 

[FranC]

Really the whole argument is moot......the bible is the rule of faith and practice....not what some man believes and or taught...Paul even covers this in in 2nd Thessalonians....(even a letter as from us)....

§The people FreeIn Christ and I are talking about are not "just men".

YOU and I are just men.
These were theologians and doctors of the early Church.
Give them some respect since you have the Christian "religion" because of them
and also the bible, I might add. They safeguarded it for you. (the letters and gospel until they were put together into a book)

 

[FranC]

This is still true....

Great.
so let's try not to LOSE THAT LIFE.

Eternal life starts HERE.
The Kingdom starts here.

If we want to be a part of it - the part that comes AFTER (our Death)
WE MUST BE IN IT HERE.

 

[Grace777x70]

I personally believe that believers joined as one spirit with the Lord and that become new creation in Christ - that they some how become "un-born again" and become un-joined with the Lord - is the #1 worse doctrine that has ever been perpetrated on the body of Christ.

This false doctrine has caused more harm to immature believers than any other doctrine.

It causes them to trust in themselves - in what they can do to make themselves saved. It is a grace-killer. We live by faith in what grace has provided in Christ. The whole Christian life from start to finish is based on what Christ has already done by His grace and it is accessed by faith. The hearing of Christ brings faith. Rom. 10:17

True faith is of the heart and not in the mind of man. It is with the heart that man believes. We can get screwy in our thinking because of circumstances and false teachings.

Take the teaching where God kills your little children because you somehow did something wrong. That would cause your emotions and mind to become a mess and not trust God from an emotional and mind frame point of view - yet your heart - the inner man in Christ is still in righteousness and holiness because it is joined as one to the Lord.

It brings dis-trust to the Lord who said "I will never leave you nor forsake you." It makes Jesus a liar when He said " The Holy Spirit with be with you and in you forever". John 14:16

How can you trust someone when they say one thing but "actually mean something totally different?" You can't. The doctrine of losing salvation as in the Lord will be separated from you undermines the human being's ability to trust in the Lord at a heart and emotional level.

I have a medical background and have heard psychiatrists talk about a lot of people in asylums and with mental disorders are from religious Christian backgrounds where they feel they have done some thing and the Lord has forsaken them.

The preaching and teaching of the grace and love of God is exactly what is needed to grow up in Christ so that the situations of life don't wreck our lives here on earth. Jesus and the apostles always talked about "life" and not losing one's salvation as in not being with the Lord.

They had a lot to say about the deeds of the body here on earth and what destruction they can bring in this life as well - these are great admonishments for us and these warnings are a blessing to us.

But let's not water down the gospel because of fear of mis-use. The gospel is the power of God for salvation. We need to hear the gospel every day.

This is still true too...the enemy is having a field day with this lose your salvation nonsense. It's whole purpose is to question the work, the love and the grace of God that is towards us in Christ.

 

[Desdichado]

Ironic how many of the Reformer's harshest critics are, themselves, beneficiaries of the era's reforms. Changes that took a greater level of grit and commitment to the Gospel than many of us will be called to give.

Most learned Christians today are right to break with the likes of Luther and Calvin on some issues. We have greater access to the original texts and a better understanding of the original languages. The Lord used that generation in a mighty way to set a course for that greater access to clarity.

My $.02. Semper Reformada

 

[FranC]

Your running from Him. You are putting His Character,virtue and very eternal nature in question.

We are His body, a part of Him. He will never leave us........we are a part of Him.

29for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30because we are members of His body. 31FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND SHALL BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH. 32This mystery is great; but I am speaking with reference to Christ and the church.

Again,
IF we are members of THE CHURCH, the invisible body of Christ, then, yes, we are PART OF HIM.
We are the BRIDE.

If we do NOT DESIRE to be in THE CHURCH, or in THE BODY, or be a BRIDE,

HOW CAN GOD FORCE US???

 

[Grace777x70]

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

 

[FranC]

Ironic how many of the Reformer's harshest critics are, themselves, beneficiaries of the era's reforms. Changes that took a greater level of grit and commitment to the Gospel than many of us will be called to give.

Most learned Christians today are right to break with the likes of Luther and Calvin on some issues. We have greater access to the original texts and a better understanding of the original languages. The Lord used that generation in a mighty way to set a course for that greater access to clarity.

My $.02. Semper Reformada

How does this jive with your signature line??

 

[FranC]

Philippians 2:13 (NASB)[SUP]13 [/SUP] for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

What does this prove???

Phillipians 2:12 is talking about how we are to obey, and have Always obeyd. This is Paul's letter and what he is saying.
They are to obey not only when Paul is present but even when he is not.

Paul tell the Phillipians to work out their salvation in fear and trembling...with RESPECT to their salvation and not take it for granted, and to become mature Christians, Learning each day to become more and more like Christ.

verse 13:
For it is God that works in us. He gives us, through the Holy Spirit, the divine enablement to do God's will.
Exactly what I said in my previous post.

Unbelievers tend to evil. Original sin, the sin nature, etc.
Believers tend to do good because we're helped by the Holy Spirit. This does NOT mean we will ALWAYS do good, we will fail.
But Jesus saves us continually as long as we want him to.