T
TruthDefender
Guest
Submit means to obey, just as we are to submit to God. Only they aren’t supposed to Lord it over us.
Eve did not sin by eating of the tree.
- Thread starter EmethAlethia
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T
TruthDefender
Guest
God punished them for sinning:
(This is specifically to the woman)
“And the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” To the woman He said: “I will greatly multiply your sorrow and your conception; In pain you shall bring forth children; Your desire shall be for your husband, And he shall rule over you.””
Genesis 3:13, 16 NKJV
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Waden21
Guest
the Old Testament contains numerous parables, which are often referred to by the Hebrew word mashal (meaning a proverb, riddle, or ethical comparison). [1, 2]I'm not here for a fight either. I just see no value in diminishing foundational passages of Scripture to "parable" in order to promote a particular (secondary) interpretation.
Just like Jesus in the New Testament, the prophets, kings, and leaders of the Old Testament used fictional or highly symbolic stories to deliver profound spiritual and moral truths. [1, 2]
Specific Scriptures Detailing Old Testament Parables
- The Poor Man's Lamb (2 Samuel 12:1–4): This is perhaps the most famous Old Testament parable. The prophet Nathan tells King David a story about a wealthy man who steals a poor man's cherished pet lamb to feed a guest. David is enraged by the story's injustice, only for Nathan to deliver the famous reveal: "You are the man!" (2 Samuel 12:7), exposing David's sin with Bathsheba. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- The Fruitless Vineyard (Isaiah 5:1–7): Isaiah tells a story about a man who meticulously clears land, builds a watchtower, and plants the choicest vines, yet it only yields wild, rotten grapes. Isaiah directly explains the mashal in verse 7: "The vineyard of the Lord Almighty is the nation of Israel, and the people of Judah are the vines he delighted in." [1]
- The Two Eagles and the Vine (Ezekiel 17:2–10): God explicitly commands the prophet Ezekiel to use this literary device: "Son of man, propound a riddle and speak a parable to the house of Israel." The story uses soaring eagles, cedar trees, and vines to allegorically map out the political betrayals and spiritual rebellions of Israel's leadership. [1, 2, 3]
- The Boiling Pot (Ezekiel 24:3–5): God commands Ezekiel to "utter a parable to the rebellious house". He describes a cooking pot piled with choice pieces of meat over a blazing fire, symbolizing the looming, fiery siege of Jerusalem by the Babylonians. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- The Parable of the Trees (Judges 9:7–15): Jotham delivers a satirical fable or parable about a group of trees looking for a king. The fruitful trees (like the olive, fig, and vine) refuse to rule because they are busy doing good work, so the trees foolishly elect a worthless, thorny bramble bush to rule over them instead. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
The Prophecy of Parables
The Old Testament even prophesied that the Messiah would teach using this exact method. Psalm 78:2states: "I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter hidden things, things from of old." Centuries later, Matthew 13:34–35 quotes this exact Psalm to explain why Jesus taught the crowds exclusively in parables.
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Waden21
Guest
I wonder what fruits of the flesh Adam and Eve were actually enjoying for God to condemn her with childbirth
T
TruthDefender
Guest
Idk, God didn’t reveal this info. It must’ve been super appealing though!
Right. You have neither wisdom nor understanding to see it. Even basic scripture eludes you. Therefore, you don’t understand God’s kingdom order.
I can’t help you. Bit I also believe you have an agenda or are eaten up by one.
Adam was the head of Eve. In God’s order, Eve would have submitted to Adam. But “the desire will be for your husband” (a consequence of her sin) condemned her to want headship over her husband.
Submission is also seen in God. The Son submits to the Father. The Spirit, during creation and now, submits to the Son who is the Word.
Not childbirth. Pain in childbirth. The original command was to multiply and subdue the earth.
Don’t take the bait. He seems like an unbeliever with an agenda.
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Waden21
Guest
The Linguistic Debate: "Multiply" Your Pain
In Genesis 3:16, God says to Eve:
In Genesis 3:16, God says to Eve:
The choice of words has led to two distinct theological interpretations:
- The Argument for No Prior Experience: The mainstream biblical view is that Adam and Eve were only in the Garden for a very brief period before the temptation occurred. Because the Hebrew word for "multiply" (הַרְבָּה אַרְבֶּה — harbah arbeh) can mean to make vast or to amplify from that moment forward, it does not mean Eve had to give birth previously. It simply means the design of the human reproductive process was altered into a difficult labor before she ever got to experience it in a painless state.
- The Argument for a Reference Point: A minority of commentators note that mathematically, you cannot "multiply" something that is currently at zero. They suggest God's phrasing implies that the mechanism of reproduction and physical delivery was already understood by Eve as a natural, painless blessing under God's original command to "be fruitful and multiply" (Genesis 1:28), and God was now scaling up the intensity of the process as a consequence of the fall.
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Waden21
Guest
Nobody on this earth affects my beliefs.
The one thing that I know is Yeshua is Yahwehs my gods son My savior.
Adam told Eve a lie? ... at the point Adam told Eve this "lie" you refer to, Adam had not sinned. You've got Adam in sin (lying) before he sinned by eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.
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I'm not here for a fight either. I just see no value in diminishing foundational passages of Scripture to "parable" in order to promote a particular (secondary) interpretation.
Agreed, but I don't think anything in Genesis 1-11 is a parable.
Again, Genesis 3 is not a parable. Given that God commanded Adam and Eve to "be fruitful and multiply", childbirth can hardly be considered a condemnation.
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Waden21
Guest
Please note that I believe from my studies that we will be judged by fruits and knowledge.
This will help you hear out my view clearly it’s a fragment of research . You seem to be taking this personally so please hear this first. I am hear not to harm but to find people who have educated themselves with history like myself and to make more sense of it also learn more.
In the ancient Hebraic worldview, this text is not a Western fairy tale or a modern scientific record. It functions as a profound, archetypal narrative—what you might call a parable, but what the ancients viewed as a structural reality of human nature. The very names and Hebrew words used reveal that this story was written to explain how humanity functions, why life is difficult, and how we interact with the divine.
Here is the word-by-word breakdown of the original Hebrew concepts.
1. "Adam" (אָדָם) and "Eve" (Chavah - חַוָּה)
- The Western Shift: Westerners read these as two specific, proper names of a Caucasian couple in a garden, focusing on them as the biological ancestors of global genetics.
- The Original Hebrew View:
- Adam is a play on the word Adamah (אֲדָמָה), which means "red dirt" or "arable soil." He is literally "Dirt-Man." He represents all of humanity. He is not just a person; he is a personification of human vulnerability and connection to the earth.
- Chavah (Eve) comes from the root word Chayah (חָיָה), meaning "to live" or "breathe." Genesis 3:20 explicitly defines her name: "because she was the mother of all living (Chai)."
- The Parable/Archetype: The story pairs Dirt (vulnerability/mortality) with Life (vitality/continuity). Together, they represent the foundational components of the human condition.
2. "Be Fruitful and Multiply" (Peru u-revu - פְּרוּ וּרְבוּ)
- The Western Shift: This is often interpreted as a mechanical biological commandment to populate the earth through physical reproduction.
- The Original Hebrew View: Parah means "to bear fruit / blossom" and Ravah means "to become great / overflow."
- The Parable/Archetype: This is a functional blessing of abundance, not a legalistic command. In Hebraic thought, to be "fruitful" means your life produces meaningful, lasting output that benefits the community and the earth. To "multiply" means your influence and legacy expand. God is giving humanity the divine power to extend orderly life into the chaotic world.
3. The Serpent (Nachash - נָחָשׁ)
- The Western Shift: Influenced by later European art and theology, Westerners see a literal, walking, talking snake, or a red horned devil in disguise.
- The Original Hebrew View: The Hebrew word is Nachash. It is a brilliant linguistic triple-entendre (a three-way pun):
- As a noun, it means "snake" (a creature that strikes from the hidden brush).
- As a verb, it means "to practice divination" or "to seek hidden/whispered secrets."
- As an adjective, it relates to Nechoshet, meaning "shining brass/bronze."
- The Parable/Archetype: The Nachash is the personification of whispered, deceptive wisdom. It represents the internal or external voice that shines attractively but distorts reality. It is described as Arum (עָרוּם), meaning "crafty," "shrewd," or "smooth." It isn't a monster; it is a smooth-talking alternate perspective that questions divine order.
4. Eating the Fruit (Achal - אָכַל)
- The Western Shift: Western art depicts an apple, focusing on the physical act of chewing a piece of contaminated food that magically alters human DNA or brings a legal curse upon the world.
- The Original Hebrew View: The tree is the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." In Hebrew, "Good and Evil" (Tov va-Ra) is a merism—a literary device where two opposites represent a whole (like saying "searching high and low" to mean searching everywhere). Tov va-Ra means "total autonomy / deciding everything."
- In Hebrew, to "know" (Yada) is not intellectual data; it is experiential intimacy (e.g., "Adam knew his wife").
- To "eat" (Achal) means "to consume, internalize, and make part of yourself."
- The Parable/Archetype: Eating the fruit is a metaphor for humanity seizing the right to define morality on their own terms. Instead of trusting God's definitions of what leads to life (Tov) and what leads to destruction (Ra), humans internalize that authority for themselves. It is the archetype of human pride: wanting to be the ultimate judges of our own reality.
The Reality of the Parable
When you look at these raw Hebrew terms, the narrative transforms from a historical puzzle into a mirror of human behavior:
- The Setting: Humans (Dirt and Life) are placed in a garden, which represents order and boundary. [1, 2]
- The Test: They are given abundance (fruitful and multiply) but are asked to respect one boundary—leaving ultimate moral judgment to the Divine.
- The Conflict: A smooth, shining voice (Nachash) convinces them that they are missing out on hidden knowledge. It plays on their insecurity.
- The Fall: They consume (internalize) the desire to be their own gods.
- The Result: The very next verse says they realized they were Arumim (naked)—the exact same word used for the snake's craftiness. By trying to become independent gods, they lost their innocent security and realized how exposed and fragile they actually were.
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Waden21
Guest
And before you reply I will no longer speak on the matter.
I truly believe the our leaders and the leaders from the beginning of time have always made the masses confused and created division just like our leaders now.
They make a show for us it’s tel-a-vision for ancient Rome they the games were explicitly used by Roman elites as a weaponized psychological tool to control public thought, push political ideologies, and intentionally direct the competitive energy of the citizens away from the government I want to be left out of the argument. Like I said, before, I am alone in my studies and I’m looking for like-minded people I am not here in anyway, to cause a problem with anybody however, if I don’t say something, I will not find nobody.
Here is my take on Adam and Eve and their first sin in the garden of Eden .
Genesis Ch 2 , V 15 , 16 + 17 . Notice in V 16 that God commanded the man . Notice also that Eve was not created until V 22 , well after God told Adam not to eat of the specific tree . So , who told Eve not to eat of that tree ? Is it reasonable to assume that Adam passed on God's message to Eve ? 1st Corinthians Ch 14 , V 34 + 35 .
When we teach our children not to do things that might harm them , how do we do that ? Do we say to them ; don't ever drink bleach ? No , we say don't touch the bleach .
In V 3 of Ch 3 , Eve says , neither shall ye touch it , lest ye die . Why did Eve say that ? Did she make that bit up herself ? Or is that what Adam said to her when he related God's message to get ? Eve doesn't even refer to the tree as : the tree of the knowledge of good and evil . Maybe Adam didn't tell her that that was what it was called . Why didn't he ? I'm guessing that Adam loved Eve very much , he didn't want her to die , he didn't want her any where near that tree , he didn't tell her what the tree was because he didn't want her to b tempted to know the knowledge of good and evil . Adam was trying to protect Eve but , in doing so , he corrupted and added to God's Word in order to keep Eve from temptation . But it backfired . The very second that Eve touched that tree and didn't die.....what did she think to herself ? Maybe she thought that Adam had made a mistake ? Or mislead her ? Or even lied to her ? Either way , she disobeyed Adams commandment not to touch it and.....she didn't die ! There were no immediate consequences , she didn't die because God never said that if u touch that tree u will die , He said don't eat of it .
But Eve doesn't know that . She only knows what Adam told her and so far , she has touched the tree and hasn't died
. Maybe the fact that she didn't die when she touched it makes her think that for some reason Adam had lied to her , why shouldn't she eat of the tree ? It seems fine , totally safe ! Who tells her that if she eats from the tree she will know good and evil ? The serpent does and in that he doesn't lie to her does he ? So far , in Eve's eyes , this serpent has not led her astray . Eve said to him that she's not supposed to touch it or she will die and he says no u won't , she touched it and didn't die . The serpent wasn't lying to her . So , we c how , mishandling the Word of God , even if we seem to ourselves to have good motives , is an extremely dangerous thing to do . Adam was trying to protect Eve but in corrupting God's Word , he allowed the serpent to get a foothold . These r just my thoughts on this subject and I hope I expressed them clearly , I'm never confident that I've done so 
.
Genesis Ch 2 , V 15 , 16 + 17 . Notice in V 16 that God commanded the man . Notice also that Eve was not created until V 22 , well after God told Adam not to eat of the specific tree . So , who told Eve not to eat of that tree ? Is it reasonable to assume that Adam passed on God's message to Eve ? 1st Corinthians Ch 14 , V 34 + 35 .
When we teach our children not to do things that might harm them , how do we do that ? Do we say to them ; don't ever drink bleach ? No , we say don't touch the bleach .
In V 3 of Ch 3 , Eve says , neither shall ye touch it , lest ye die . Why did Eve say that ? Did she make that bit up herself ? Or is that what Adam said to her when he related God's message to get ? Eve doesn't even refer to the tree as : the tree of the knowledge of good and evil . Maybe Adam didn't tell her that that was what it was called . Why didn't he ? I'm guessing that Adam loved Eve very much , he didn't want her to die , he didn't want her any where near that tree , he didn't tell her what the tree was because he didn't want her to b tempted to know the knowledge of good and evil . Adam was trying to protect Eve but , in doing so , he corrupted and added to God's Word in order to keep Eve from temptation . But it backfired . The very second that Eve touched that tree and didn't die.....what did she think to herself ? Maybe she thought that Adam had made a mistake ? Or mislead her ? Or even lied to her ? Either way , she disobeyed Adams commandment not to touch it and.....she didn't die ! There were no immediate consequences , she didn't die because God never said that if u touch that tree u will die , He said don't eat of it .
But Eve doesn't know that . She only knows what Adam told her and so far , she has touched the tree and hasn't died
. Maybe the fact that she didn't die when she touched it makes her think that for some reason Adam had lied to her , why shouldn't she eat of the tree ? It seems fine , totally safe ! Who tells her that if she eats from the tree she will know good and evil ? The serpent does and in that he doesn't lie to her does he ? So far , in Eve's eyes , this serpent has not led her astray . Eve said to him that she's not supposed to touch it or she will die and he says no u won't , she touched it and didn't die . The serpent wasn't lying to her . So , we c how , mishandling the Word of God , even if we seem to ourselves to have good motives , is an extremely dangerous thing to do . Adam was trying to protect Eve but in corrupting God's Word , he allowed the serpent to get a foothold . These r just my thoughts on this subject and I hope I expressed them clearly , I'm never confident that I've done so .
In Genesis Ch 3 V 12 , Adams guilty conscience screams out when he says to God ; the woman WHOM THOU GAVEST TO BE WITH ME , he's trying to shift the blame on to God ! This is your fault ! U made her ! If u hadn't have made her then this wouldn't have happened !Here is my take on Adam and Eve and their first sin in the garden of Eden .
Genesis Ch 2 , V 15 , 16 + 17 . Notice in V 16 that God commanded the man . Notice also that Eve was not created until V 22 , well after God told Adam not to eat of the specific tree . So , who told Eve not to eat of that tree ? Is it reasonable to assume that Adam passed on God's message to Eve ? 1st Corinthians Ch 14 , V 34 + 35 .
When we teach our children not to do things that might harm them , how do we do that ? Do we say to them ; don't ever drink bleach ? No , we say don't touch the bleach .
In V 3 of Ch 3 , Eve says , neither shall ye touch it , lest ye die . Why did Eve say that ? Did she make that bit up herself ? Or is that what Adam said to her when he related God's message to get ? Eve doesn't even refer to the tree as : the tree of the knowledge of good and evil . Maybe Adam didn't tell her that that was what it was called . Why didn't he ? I'm guessing that Adam loved Eve very much , he didn't want her to die , he didn't want her any where near that tree , he didn't tell her what the tree was because he didn't want her to b tempted to know the knowledge of good and evil . Adam was trying to protect Eve but , in doing so , he corrupted and added to God's Word in order to keep Eve from temptation . But it backfired . The very second that Eve touched that tree and didn't die.....what did she think to herself ? Maybe she thought that Adam had made a mistake ? Or mislead her ? Or even lied to her ? Either way , she disobeyed Adams commandment not to touch it and.....she didn't die ! There were no immediate consequences , she didn't die because God never said that if u touch that tree u will die , He said don't eat of it .
But Eve doesn't know that . She only knows what Adam told her and so far , she has touched the tree and hasn't died
What does Eve say ? The plain facts of the matter ; The serpent beguiled me and I did eat . Exactly what happened , she doesn't blame anybody she just tells the truth .
For the most part, AWESOME on your part. You are thinking this through. God only said the command was for Adam, and God did give BOTH of them joint commands, so if it was meant for Eve, God would have said something when those other commands were given out. Not only that, the next two times God brings up His command to Adam, He only says the command was for him.
It is absolutely reasonable since God says the command wasn't for Eve, just Adam. Plus, she wasn't there. She hadn't been created yet.When we teach our children not to do things that might harm them , how do we do that ? Do we say to them ; don't ever drink bleach ? No , we say don't touch the bleach .
Well, since God didn't give the command to Eve, and only Adam, and possibly the serpent, were present when the command was given, and it's obvious from her discussion with the serpent, he wasn't the source, that does leave only Adam.
AMEN! Preach it.
That's just it. The serpent told her the truth all the way. Nothing happened when she touched it. Nothing happened when she ate. If Adam hadn't deceived his wife as to EXACLY what God commanded HIM, this whole thing probably never would have gotten started ... but who knows?But Eve doesn't know that . She only knows what Adam told her and so far, she has touched the tree and hasn't died
LOL. you did absolutely wonderful. Great insights. Keep it up.So far , in Eve's eyes , this serpent has not led her astray . Eve said to him that she's not supposed to touch it or she will die and he says no u won't , she touched it and didn't die . The serpent wasn't lying to her . So , we c how , mishandling the Word of God , even if we seem to ourselves to have good motives , is an extremely dangerous thing to do. Adam was trying to protect Eve but in corrupting God's Word , he allowed the serpent to get a foothold . These r just my thoughts on this subject and I hope I expressed them clearly , I'm never confident that I've done so
True. But God's question, "What is THIS thou hast done?" has absolutely nothing at all to do with her eating the tree. Adam just told God what she had done. "The woman that Thou gavest to me gave me and I ate."
Adam is blaming BOTH God and Eve. But what is the only thing Eve can think of. "Well, Adam did say I shouldn't eat or touch it, and I went ahead and did it anyway." But God never addresses her eating at all. Just that she gave to him and got him to eat. That's the only thing God addresses with Eve.
The next time this command was given was to Noah and his wife and his sons and their wives. The ONLY times this command is given is when there are 8 or less humans on the planet. Based on this fact, logic and reason would state God wants the "few" humans left to "get bussy".
Not sure I'm getting what you are trying to say with this.
Of course, since the eyes of both were opened and they knew they were naked, and sewed leaves together, it is quite obvious they gained a conscience upon eating.
An interesting take but it leaves out a heck of a lot of the details. Plus, the New Testament, and Jesus Himself, quotes from the passage. Since through one man Adam, sin entered into the world and through the second man Jesus grace was extended. To negate the real existence of the first is to negate the existence of the second. Adam and Eve are seen as real beings to lived the Genesis account. Genesis is not a parable according to the rest of scripture.