Ezekiel Temple vision, Ezekiel 40-48, a millennial temple?

[Straightshot]

"And the genetic fallacy says that truth isn't a respector of age. I would think someone with so much experience would know better than to appeal to age rather than giving good reason"


It isn't a respecter son ... you are just being .... well I won't write it on this forum

And I did not appeal to any such thing ..... just straightening out your dilemma

Do know what you look like on this forum in front of others with your idiotic remarks?

Think about it .... people are not as ignorant as you think

 

[Bookends]

"So Wonder why the Christian Church is in shambles today!!!!"


The failure to make the Bible the center of the teaching

And ..... the attempt of the preterist to systematically destroy the Lord's more sure word of prophesy

Sounds like many like to make the evening NEWS their center of teaching.

 

[Bookends]

As for the thread. Shucks, I waited for awhile hoping there would be some good discussion so I could see, and hopefully come up with what I see (I really have not studied it) and after all these posts. I still do not know what is true concerning this temple (is it the millennial temple, or the future eternal temple in new jerusalem)

All I see is a bunch of arguing.

EG, most dispensationalist, not you, have nothing to go on biblically to refute what I presented, so the smear campaign begins. Did you read all of my OP? Did God do away with animal sacrifice or not? Do God enjoy animal sacrifices? Will priest or people die during the millennium? Will there be marriage in the millennium? Jesus said there wouldn't be any marriage after the resurrection. Does physical circumcision mean anything anymore, Paul says no and that it was a type to the circumcision of the heart.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

They are speaking of the same event. The Prophets were all inspired by God and He inspired them all to be on the same page.

um. So the prophesy of Jesus first comming, was supposed to be about his second coming? or the prophesy of his second coming, was supposed to be about his first coming?


Everything in the first part of the chapter in Zecheriah was symbolic. it is foolish to think what occurd after COULD not be also.
Sorry, what you just said makes no sense, and does not prove your point.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is a twist on scripture, for the AOD has to be an abomination of our God's temple.
Not the walking in and claiming to be God in a temple that is not dedicated to Him. He has to stand in the Holy of Holies in a temple dedicated to Him in order for it to be an abomination to Him.

it would also be from the 4th beast of Daniels gentile beasts, and also would not be islam, because he is the god of his empirel thus he would reject Allah also.

this islam stuff is for the birds.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Makes no difference what the "Jews" want see .... it is not going to happen until the end of the tribulation when they see their Messiah and King to build it


There are no instructions to build a tribulation temple in scripture .... there are always instructions in scripture for the task

not true, if it is, no one could see the abomination of desolation sitting in the holy place.there has to be a temple for this to occure.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG, most dispensationalist, not you, have nothing to go on biblically to refute what I presented, so the smear campaign begins. Did you read all of my OP? Did God do away with animal sacrifice or not? Do God enjoy animal sacrifices? Will priest or people die during the millennium? Will there be marriage in the millennium? Jesus said there wouldn't be any marriage after the resurrection. Does physical circumcision mean anything anymore, Paul says no and that it was a type to the circumcision of the heart.

some of what you say makes sense. some does not.

of course their will be no marraige after the ressurection.

But there will still be people alive on earth who enter the millenium. so God is not going to allow them to get married, just let them live in sin? this makes no sense.

sacrifice, i agree.

will people die in the millenium? I do not know. But I know God punishes people (nations) who do not come to jerusalem to worship him. I also know he rules with a rod of iron, so he does have to punish some/

as for circumcision. It is a medical fact that it is a benefit to the one who has it done. will people do it? most likely, but will people be required to do it? Not for salvation. but God may still want to teach the children of those born in that time period. so I do not know what God will use.

 

[Straightshot]

"not true, if it is, no one could see the abomination of desolation sitting in the holy place.there has to be a temple for this to occure."


Your problem is that you have no scriptures telling of a temple of the Lord's there during the tribulation

And neither can you give any scriptural instructions for the building .... these are always given

There will not be one

And your comment about the Islam reality being for the birds .... that is exactly what scripture tells of their fate that will come to them when they invade and occupy Israel, Jerusalem, and the temple mount

Do you think this truth is in your Bible .... better look

And do you know how many prophetic scriptures there are in your Bible that directly identify the same

.... and yet you choose instead to follow a reformation theology that is in gross error

I can give you the prophetic verses that identify today's populations of the Middle East who are the Muslims of the region

.... you cannot give the same supporting your views because there aren't any

If you are going to attempt to teach Bible prophecy you need to get on the right road

..... other wise you will give bad witness to the cause

Fooling around with the Lord's more sure word of prophecy greatly discounts the validity of the very essence of His purpose

 

[JesusIsAll]

not true, if it is, no one could see the abomination of desolation sitting in the holy place.there has to be a temple for this to occure.

Revelation 11:1-2 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Greek Naos (nah-os'); Noun Masculine, Strong #: 3485 used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of gold was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure)

There is absolutely an inner sanctum temple of God during the tribulation, in which sacrifices are offered, this a foregone conclusion in scripture,

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Revelation 11:1-2 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

2 Thessalonians 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Greek Naos (nah-os'); Noun Masculine, Strong #: 3485 used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of gold was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure)

There is absolutely an inner sanctum temple of God during the tribulation, in which sacrifices are offered, this a foregone conclusion in scripture,

Daniel 9:27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

Yes I believe this, but others will try to tell you the temple mentioned in Revelation 11 is in heaven. I don't see how they get though when the whole seen is here on earth. With the gentiles treading the outer court, the two witnesses doing prophecy in front of it, and so on...

 

[JesusIsAll]

Yes I believe this, but others will try to tell you the temple mentioned in Revelation 11 is in heaven. I don't see how they get though when the whole seen is here on earth. With the gentiles treading the outer court, the two witnesses doing prophecy in front of it, and so on...

Ha! Antichrist isn't going to do any temple sitting in heaven, that's for certain! (Those would also be some gentiles, wandering pretty far afield... there isn't even a lemonade stand between here and God's throne...)

 

[Straightshot]

"Revelation 11:1-2 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."



Problems

The temple of the Lord's presented in Revelation 11:1 is His temple in heaven ..... He has one you know

And tell who worships Him therein ..... unbelieving "Jews".... I don't think so .... these are the pre-tribulation church [Revelation 4; 5; 7:9-17]

The contrast ..... no temple of the Lord's on the mount in Revelation 11:2 .... the Muslims will occupy and it will be their temple which is there today

"Holy place" does not equate with the temple as you think .... all definitions must agree

The Lord said when you see the abomination of desolation stand in the "holy place" the Greek is "topos" look it up

He does not define a temple

Daniel describes the same ..... "holy place" and in relation to his people Israel during the 70th week decreed for the nation

The most holy place considered by Israel today is at the base of the western wall .... not a temple there

And their sacrificing is not with animals, but by prayer and supplication today

Animal sacrificing ritual would not be recognized by the Lord in the first place, and He would certainly not consider a temple build by unbelieving "Jews" as His temple .... far from it

And He has not given instruction in scripture for the building of a tribulation temple .... this would undoubtedly be the case if there was to be a temple of His to be build


Lexicon :: Strong's G5117 - topos

τόπος

​

[TABLE="width: 606"]
[TR]
[TD]Transliteration
topos[/TD]
[TD]Pronunciation
to'-pos (Key)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Part of Speech
masculine noun[/TD]
[TD]Root Word (Etymology)
Apparently a primary word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Dictionary Aids
Vine's Expository Dictionary: View Entry
TDNT Reference: 8:187,1184[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Outline of Biblical Usage

1. 
   [*=left]place, any portion or space marked off, as it were from surrounding space
   1. 
      [*=left]an inhabited place, as a city, village, district
      [*=left]a place (passage) in a book
   
   [*=left]metaph.
   1. 
      [*=left]the condition or station held by one in any company or assembly
      [*=left]opportunity, power, occasion for acting

Click for Synonyms[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]KJV Translation Count — Total: 92x
The KJV translates Strongs G5117 in the following manner: place (80x), room (5x), quarter (2x),licence (1x), coast (1x), where (1x), plain (with G3977) (1x), rock (with G5138) (1x).[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[prove-all]

End-Time Antiochus

This whole vision is about an evening and morning sacrifice in the temple.
The temple, today, is God’s Church (Ephesians 2:20-21).

Notice, here the daily is taken away because of transgression.
So this is a different event than in Daniel 12:11,
where there is a “daily” taken away because of righteousness—to the place of safety.

Also, in Daniel 12 an end-time Antiochus violently shatters the power of the holy people.
But here in Daniel 8, he subtly comes to the temple with flatteries.

“Yea, he magnified himself even to [margin reads ‘against’] the prince of the host,
and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.

And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression,
and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered” (Daniel 8:11-12).

There are several things to note here. Verse 11 is speaking in military terms. Someone, somewhere,
has the gall to take on Jesus Christ, our military Commander.

Only Satan could motivate a man to operate so boldly.

Verse 12 says an army was given to Satan “against the daily.” By him the “daily” was taken away.
Just as in Daniel 12:11, “sacrifice” is in italics and should be left out of the translation.

Anciently, the daily sacrifice was offered in the temple. Today, the temple is the Church—so,
again, the daily in prophecy refers to the sacrifice, or work, of the Church.


Daniel 8 is discussing transgression, truth being cast to the ground—a satanic host
practicing and prospering at destroying the daily—all from within the sanctuary, God’s own Church.

This is not the destruction to occur in the Tribulation. It’s going on within the Church before the Tribulation.
Inside the Church, a man is acting like God, magnifying himself even to the prince of the host,
casting truth to the ground. Satan is behind him.

This man took away the daily—the continual—the Work of God.

The daily was to stop, because of sin, for 2300 evening and morning sacrifices.
the sacrifices were offered twice a day anciently, the duration is actually 1150 days.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ha! Antichrist isn't going to do any temple sitting in heaven, that's for certain! (Those would also be some gentiles, wandering pretty far afield... there isn't even a lemonade stand between here and God's throne...)

Told ya !!!
Post 112, Straightshot is already trying to pass that off.

 

[Straightshot]

"This whole vision is about an evening and morning sacrifice in the temple.
The temple, today, is God’s Church (Ephesians 2:20-21)."


Nay

Nothing to do with the church

All about Daniel's people Israel

Antiochus IV did desecrate the temple [Daniel 11:21-35]

But the little horn who is coming will desecrate Israel's "holy place" of worship today ..... at the base of the western wall

.... and this destruction will cause them to cease their worship and flee

The 2300 evenings and mornings still apply today ..... Israel still follows the same worship ritual

These are 1150 24 hour days and given for measuring the time lapse of the beginning of the completed desecration by the little horn [the first 110 days of the second half of the 70th week decreed [1260 days]] ..... and the same "sanctuary" will be cleansed by the end of the 1260 days .... by the Lord who will drive the little horn and his followers to Armageddon

Lexicon :: Strong's H6944 - qodesh

קֹדֶשׁ

​

[TABLE="width: 606"]
[TR]
[TD]Transliteration
qodesh[/TD]
[TD]Pronunciation
kō'·desh (Key) [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Part of Speech
masculine noun[/TD]
[TD]Root Word (Etymology)
From קָדַשׁ (H6942)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Dictionary Aids
TWOT Reference: 1990a
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]Outline of Biblical Usage

1. 
   [*=left]apartness, holiness, sacredness, separateness
   1. 
      [*=left]apartness, sacredness, holiness
      1. 
         [*=left]of God
         [*=left]of places
         [*=left]of things

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Straightshot]

"there isn't even a lemonade stand between here and God's throne...)"


Do you think immortals need a lemonade stand?

 

[Bookends]

some of what you say makes sense. some does not.

of course their will be no marraige after the ressurection.

But there will still be people alive on earth who enter the millenium. so God is not going to allow them to get married, just let them live in sin? this makes no sense.

sacrifice, i agree.

will people die in the millenium? I do not know. But I know God punishes people (nations) who do not come to jerusalem to worship him. I also know he rules with a rod of iron, so he does have to punish some/

as for circumcision. It is a medical fact that it is a benefit to the one who has it done. will people do it? most likely, but will people be required to do it? Not for salvation. but God may still want to teach the children of those born in that time period. so I do not know what God will use.

ok, so you don't believe a resurrection happens before the millennium? Most dispensationalist believe there is a resurrection at the rapture of the church, and another resurrection at the end of the so called millennium. They believe in 2 resurrections even thought the bible speaks of one physical one.

If what "most" dispensationalist say is true, that there is a resurrection at the rapture of the church, then according to Jesus, there would be no marriages afterward. And if the Ezekiel passage of the temple is a millennial temple, then we have conflict because the passage in Ezekiel talks about the conditions for priestly marriage. Therefore this temple can not be a "millennial" temple.

 

[Bookends]

some of what you say makes sense. some does not.

of course their will be no marraige after the ressurection.

But there will still be people alive on earth who enter the millenium. so God is not going to allow them to get married, just let them live in sin? this makes no sense.

sacrifice, i agree.

will people die in the millenium? I do not know. But I know God punishes people (nations) who do not come to jerusalem to worship him. I also know he rules with a rod of iron, so he does have to punish some/

as for circumcision. It is a medical fact that it is a benefit to the one who has it done. will people do it? most likely, but will people be required to do it? Not for salvation. but God may still want to teach the children of those born in that time period. so I do not know what God will use.

A condition for the priestly or temple service is physical circumcision, Paul says physical circumcision means nothing now, so are you suggesting it will be requirement in a so called millennial age? I say says who? Our bible does not suggest or hint that physical circumcision does or will have any significance after the shadows (OT ceremonial laws), Paul says this system is vanishing away and obsolete.

 

[Bookends]

There is no temple in the New Jerusalem,

Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

The New Jerusalem is a metaphor the the NT Universal Church-Christ's kingdom.

Galatians 4
Two Covenants

21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh (the Jewish OT system of temple worship,ceremonial laws and customs, etc., the old covenant), and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic.For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai (OT Jewish LAW)which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar— 25 for this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia, and corresponds to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children— 26but the Jerusalem above is free, which is the mother of us all.(the church) 27 For it is written:
“Rejoice, O barren,
You who do not bear!
Break forth and shout,
You who are not in labor!
For the desolate has many more children
Than she who has a husband.”

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise. 29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now. 30 Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir(Earth Jerusalem is shall not be heir) with the son of the freewoman.”[f]31 So then, brethren, we(the church) are not children of the bondwoman but of the free.

Oh Lord, have you brought a blindness upon these people too?

 

[Bookends]

Thats the problem I have with it. God did not accept sacrifice and burnt offerin gin the ot as a means to forgive sin, it was just a vision of what was to come, so when Christ came, they would know who he was and what he would do.

So there is no need to sacrifice in the millennium. God is not going to go around killing animals, when he has restored the animal kingdom to what it was before the fall (where the lion and lamb sleep together in peace)

Who is pictured as a lion and a lamb in Scripture EG?