F.F. Bosworth: False Teacher or not?

[The_Watchers_2017]

No, this isn't what he's saying at all. He's saying it wasn't a disease but a "spirit" that was attacking Paul spiritually.

"Now since Paul distinctly states that his 'thorn' was the angel of Satan sent to buffet him, a demon spirit sent from Satan to make​

trouble for him wherever he went, why should we say it was something else?" pg. 187​

Bosworth hasn't lost me but your interpretation of him is what has me lost. He's saying Paul's thorn wasn't a physical disease but an attack from a demonic spiritual entity.

7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited.

wonder what a messenger of Satan to harass me means?

 

[studentoftheword]

Roughsoul1991

You don't want to know the Real Truth ---you just want to be right ---
God says this

 

[Niki7]

Of course you can and Scripture does say what it was. "Weakness" in this context comes from PHYSICAL DISBILITIES (or "infirmities") and this is what Christ said and how Paul responded: And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. (2 Cor 12:9). The "flesh" in this context is the body.

People simply have to carefully read what is written instead of making up their own ideas. We should keep in mind that Paul had suffered many beatings, and may even have been crippled.

So now we have a crippled and half blind evangelist to the Gentiles. Oh goody.

You decide; we believe. Only no.

Then again I would expect no better answer from someone who goes out of their way to combat most anything spiritual that they cannot drive a nail of their own understanding through.

 

[Niki7]

No, this isn't what he's saying at all. He's saying it wasn't a disease but a "spirit" that was attacking Paul spiritually.

"Now since Paul distinctly states that his 'thorn' was the angel of Satan sent to buffet him, a demon spirit sent from Satan to make​

trouble for him wherever he went, why should we say it was something else?" pg. 187​

Bosworth hasn't lost me but your interpretation of him is what has me lost. He's saying Paul's thorn wasn't a physical disease but an attack from a demonic spiritual entity.

Uh huh.

At least as popular as the ever accredited cessationists 'Paul could not see well.' I thought he was healed of that after he affirmed Christ?

Acts 9:

17So Ananias went to the house, and when he arrived, he placed his hands on Saul. “Brother Saul,” he said, “the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here, has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.”

18At that instant, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and his sight was restored. He got up and was baptized, 19and after taking some food, he regained his strength. And he spent several days with the disciples in Damascus.

Doesn't say half restored or restored with slight macular degeneration that continued to degenerate.

Now spiritual weakness is well established in many churches today as well as unbelief and lack of faith. Spiritual wickedness in high places is supposed to be something Christians are aware of but not so much these days it seems.

People who have been and may continue to be attacked spiritually are the ones that are dangerous to the God hating evil spirits and their leader and it is consequential that most sitting in churches today yawn between 10 to 20 times per service (yes I made up that number but looking at your watch every 10 minutes also counts as a desire to quit the premises because flesh gives a pretty boring sermon)

 

[Niki7]

I see a common theme just like Deliverance ministries.

I bet you do

 

[Niki7]

Wigglesworth was a fraud. If you find them in Roberts Liardon's book God's Generals, you know they're phony.

https://archive.org/download/GodsGeneralsRobertsLiardon/God's Generals Roberts Liardon.pdf

Yet this guy is Pentecostal and claims all kinds of spiritual hoop lah.

Including God speaking to him from a young age on. huh. so it's ok for him, but not others in his estimation

Could be confusing. I don't even know much about Wigglesworth and most things Pentecostal for that matter (save my own experience)
but how is someone who was not even alive when things occurred become an expert on others?

From his site:

WHERE IT ALL BEGAN
OUR STORY
Explore the journey of Roberts Liardon Ministries – the supernatural ways God spoke to Roberts at a young age all the way to adulthood. This story is full of Heaven’s revelation and divine appointments.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Roughsoul1991

You don't want to know the Real Truth ---you just want to be right ---
God says this

Christian Ad Hominem

 

[Roughsoul1991]

No, this isn't what he's saying at all. He's saying it wasn't a disease but a "spirit" that was attacking Paul spiritually.

"Now since Paul distinctly states that his 'thorn' was the angel of Satan sent to buffet him, a demon spirit sent from Satan to make​

trouble for him wherever he went, why should we say it was something else?" pg. 187​

Bosworth hasn't lost me but your interpretation of him is what has me lost. He's saying Paul's thorn wasn't a physical disease but an attack from a demonic spiritual entity.

I'll try again.

These two pronouns, as well as the word angel, or messenger, prove that Paul’s “thorn” was, as he himself plainly shows, a satanic personality and not a disease. We could not use the personal pronouns he or him when speaking of ophthalmia, or any other disease, because there is no gender to ophthalmia”

You are correct he is arguing that Paul's thorn could not be a disease because it was a messenger of Satan. Correct?

There is evidence of a spirit of infirmity in scripture. Correct?

Bosworth can not say that it couldn't be an ailment if there is scripture speaking of a disabling spirit.

His argument fails.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I bet you do

Yes. Legalism, bondage, temple money changers, and a long list of people who have been hurt by these teachings. A new term has been established called PCS (Post Charasmatic Stress). Groups are popping up with all sorts of testimony and help to help people overcome and heal from such spiritual abuse.

Often reminds me of Job's friends who kept saying you must have sinned, you must be doing something wrong, have you done this or that? When in reality he did nothing but be faithful to God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So now we have a crippled and half blind evangelist to the Gentiles. Oh goody. You decide; we believe. Only no. Then again I would expect no better answer from someone who goes out of their way to combat most anything spiritual that they cannot drive a nail of their own understanding through.

Another STUPID AND INANE post from Niki7. What else can we expect?

 

[studentoftheword]

Christian Ad Hominem

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Exactly

 

[studentoftheword]

Roughsoul1991 said:
Christian Ad Hominem

Exactly

Glad you agree that your statement is just a big

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Roughsoul1991 said:
Christian Ad Hominem



Glad you agree that your statement is just a big

It was you who “coped out” I was agreeing with you. Instead of addressing my argument, you posted scripture to call me a fool and saying not to speak to me.

 

[Niki7]

Another STUPID AND INANE post from Niki7. What else can we expect?

Well I don't know what the 'we' stands for in your post unless you have a split personality. Why do you debase the entire forum with your nasty and personal attacks on people you disagree with?

I would hope, because of all you say you know, that you would find responding like that to be beneath you.

Apparently not and just another response that illustrates your inability to show some ...shall we say maturity?

 

[studentoftheword]

It was you who “coped out”[/QUOTE

 

[Niki7]

Yes. Legalism, bondage, temple money changers, and a long list of people who have been hurt by these teachings. A new term has been established called PCS (Post Charasmatic Stress). Groups are popping up with all sorts of testimony and help to help people overcome and heal from such spiritual abuse.

Often reminds me of Job's friends who kept saying you must have sinned, you must be doing something wrong, have you done this or that? When in reality he did nothing but be faithful to God.

I don't think we are on the same page. Groups as you say, have been around for as long as cults and other over zealous churches have been opening their doors.

In fact, Paul addressed all the errors and abuse in his letters. There is nothing new here. It has always been a battle to keep the truth as it was given and not some massaged or misused version of the gospel that is really not the gospel.

The Bible is far less hard to understand if people would just believe what is written instead of pointing out everyone who whether true or not, does not agree with their understanding. I just kind of wonder why a person will start an op when it seems they actually already have an opinion on the question they are asking.

That's fine. But that seems to sometimes become the mo of the person starting the thread. Throw a question out there and then go back and forth with responders.

With myriad backgrounds and experiences, the propensity to derail threads with quite a few or misunderstand the op to begin with and those who believe they are the master and commander of the forum (not meaning you; just giving an opinion in general) it's just we all have to answer for how we respond to others and it seems rare a person can introduce the ability to actually think about their response around here. It's more like a knee jerk defensiveness that belies the Christian testimony certain people lay claim to.

And the spiritual gifts are always contentious. They don't have to be; not really a hill to die on.

 

[Bruce_Leiter]

I'm researching the teachings of F.F. Bosworth and his book “Christ the Healer”

He basically teaches that divine healing is a promise of God so God's answer to healing is always yes and amen to the promises of Christ.

But I find this contradicting. Not that in Christ we do not see physical healing but to say it is always God's will doesn't take into account other scriptures.

What do you think?

God has healed my seven-year major depression for more than 3 decades now, but at the depth of that disease, God allowed me to experience three kinds of chronic physical pain. Later, he gave me his peace to accept it as part of my life but kept it to humble me while I was preaching God's Word and now when I'm writing and publishing books. It is literally my "thorn in the flesh." I think we take too short a view of fulfillment of Scripture. We will all be healed permanently when Jesus returns and gives us our resurrection bodies.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I don't think we are on the same page. Groups as you say, have been around for as long as cults and other over zealous churches have been opening their doors.

In fact, Paul addressed all the errors and abuse in his letters. There is nothing new here. It has always been a battle to keep the truth as it was given and not some massaged or misused version of the gospel that is really not the gospel.

The Bible is far less hard to understand if people would just believe what is written instead of pointing out everyone who whether true or not, does not agree with their understanding. I just kind of wonder why a person will start an op when it seems they actually already have an opinion on the question they are asking.

That's fine. But that seems to sometimes become the mo of the person starting the thread. Throw a question out there and then go back and forth with responders.

With myriad backgrounds and experiences, the propensity to derail threads with quite a few or misunderstand the op to begin with and those who believe they are the master and commander of the forum (not meaning you; just giving an opinion in general) it's just we all have to answer for how we respond to others and it seems rare a person can introduce the ability to actually think about their response around here. It's more like a knee jerk defensiveness that belies the Christian testimony certain people lay claim to.

And the spiritual gifts are always contentious. They don't have to be; not really a hill to die on.

I don't think we are on the same page. Groups as you say, have been around for as long as cults and other over zealous churches have been opening their doors.

I wouldn't assume to know what page were on until I got to know your point of view better. I was sharing my thoughts about the ministries F F Bosworth was involved in.

In fact, Paul addressed all the errors and abuse in his letters. There is nothing new here. It has always been a battle to keep the truth as it was given and not some massaged or misused version of the gospel that is really not the gospel.

Very true. Nothing new but truth has to be shared to combat what is really not the gospel.

The Bible is far less hard to understand if people would just believe what is written instead of pointing out everyone who whether true or not, does not agree with their understanding.

I once thought the same until studying theology and why there are so many differing views. Typically they come from either good of bad Hermeneutics
or Exegetics.

( I just kind of wonder why a person will start an op when it seems they actually already have an opinion on the question they are asking.

That's fine. But that seems to sometimes become the mo of the person starting the thread. Throw a question out there and then go back and forth with responders.)

It is a study habit of mind. To test my studies or beliefs through debate. That is the only true fire way to know have you really thought through the theological belief. I take peoples comments weigh them against my studies and then test their belief to see how well it holds up. Sometimes playing devils advocate to see others perspectives.

(With myriad backgrounds and experiences, the propensity to derail threads with quite a few or misunderstand the op to begin with and those who believe they are the master and commander of the forum (not meaning you; just giving an opinion in general)

Well I'm more laid back as an OP, I don't worry about derailment. But yes everyone operates differently and there are many Christians who do not know how to debate with maturity.

it's just we all have to answer for how we respond to others and it seems rare a person can introduce the ability to actually think about their response around here. It's more like a knee jerk defensiveness that belies the Christian testimony certain people lay claim to.

I agree. We all have to answer for our actions online or offline. That's probably the number one negative review this site receives is the environment of the BD forum.

And the spiritual gifts are always contentious. They don't have to be; not really a hill to die on.

The page I'm on isn't technically about the gifts. It is the abuse of healing ministries. Abuse of the gift of healing. That abuse falls into a newer psychological term called spiritual abuse.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

God has healed my seven-year major depression for more than 3 decades now, but at the depth of that disease, God allowed me to experience three kinds of chronic physical pain. Later, he gave me his peace to accept it as part of my life but kept it to humble me while I was preaching God's Word and now when I'm writing and publishing books. It is literally my "thorn in the flesh." I think we take too short a view of fulfillment of Scripture. We will all be healed permanently when Jesus returns and gives us our resurrection bodies.

I have a real similar story with chronic pain