Faith to believe on Christ !

[notuptome]

Those who are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8, so they cannot have Faith Heb 11:6

They cannot come to Christ until they hear the word of God and are enlightened by the Holy Spirit. Saving faith comes from hearing Gods word and the Holy Spirit convincing the hearer of the truth that he is a sinner, his sin will send him to hell, and only Christ can forgive him, make him righteous and give him eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[svedbygrace]

They cannot come to Christ until they hear the word of God and are enlightened by the Holy Spirit. Saving faith comes from hearing Gods word and the Holy Spirit convincing the hearer of the truth that he is a sinner, his sin will send him to hell, and only Christ can forgive him, make him righteous and give him eternal life.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Those who are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8, so they cannot have Faith Heb 11:6

 

[Graybeard]

Those who are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8, so they cannot have Faith Heb 11:6

You keep repeating these verses, so let's look at them in context:

Rom 8:5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit.
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.
Rom 8:8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
Rom 8:9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.
Rom 8:10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

now what about Heb 11:6:

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

 

[crossnote]

Those who are in the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:8, so they cannot have Faith Heb 11:6

How then does an unbeliever who is in the flesh come to faith if as you say 'they cannot have faith'? Do they first put off the flesh in their own strength?

 

[starfield]

star

2 Pet 2:1 says nothing about Christ dying for those false teachers.

Actually that verse clearly refutes your assertion. Jesus did die for them however they are lost. It says that the Lord bought them.
2 Peter 2:1 (KJV) But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Bought: G59
ἀγοράζω
to be in the a)gora/ἀγοράζω properly, to go to market, i.e. (by implication) to purchase; specially, to redeem

And all for whom Christ died shall live by Faith.

No, Sir. Those that are justified (righteous) shall live by faith. That's what scripture states.

While Christ died for the sins of the whole world, His sacrifice did not automatically ensure salvation and forgiveness of sins to all, sinners have to COME to Him in FAITH in order to have life...
John 5:39-40 (KJV)
39. Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40. And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. <- Oh look, the sinner's gotta DO something.

 

[svedbygrace]

star

No, Sir. Those that are justified (righteous) shall live by faith.

Correct, which is what those Jesus Christ died for become. Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The obedience is His Death as Per Phil 2:8

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Now, by His Death of obedience they shall be made Righteous. The word righteous is the greek word dikaios nd it is the same word translated Just as Translated here Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So Rom 5:19 can read as follow Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made Just !

Now, what is the Promise to those made Just in Rom 1:17 ?

Its they shall live by Faith. That means all those by His Obedience He died for, they shall live by Faith. You cannot get around that conclusion !

 

[starfield]

star



Correct, which is what those Jesus Christ died for become. Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

The obedience is His Death as Per Phil 2:8

8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Now, by His Death of obedience they shall be made Righteous. The word righteous is the greek word dikaios nd it is the same word translated Just as Translated here Rom 1:17

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

So Rom 5:19 can read as follow Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made Just !

Now, what is the Promise to those made Just in Rom 1:17 ?

Its they shall live by Faith. That means all those by His Obedience He died for, they shall live by Faith. You cannot get around that conclusion !

We still aren’t speaking the same language, Sir. Scripture says that Jesus died for the sins of everyone thus salvation is available to all sinners (John 1:29, John 3:16-17, 1 John 2:2b, 1 John 4:14, etc.), however not all will be justified because not all will come to Him in faith to have eternal life, few will find the narrow gate. If we go by your assertion that everyone that Christ died for are justified apart from faith then universalism holds true.

 

[svedbygrace]

star

We still aren’t speaking the same language

Post 26, did you understand the points I made with scripture? You have completely evaded them.

 

[starfield]

star



Post 26, did you understand the points I made with scripture? You have completely evaded them.

You're the one that evade people's points.
Sorry, not ready to play games....

 

[svedbygrace]

You're the one that evade people's points.
Sorry, not ready to play games....

Post 26, did you understand the points I made with scripture? You have completely evaded them.

 

[svedbygrace]

How then does an unbeliever who is in the flesh come to faith if as you say 'they cannot have faith'? Do they first put off the flesh in their own strength?

They must be first born again, born anew r of the Spirit before they can have Faith.

Jn 3:6-7

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

 

[Ascension]

Those who require faith to believe are those who lack to seek .

 

[svedbygrace]

Faith in Christ for Salvation is restricted to and is a Divine Summons to only those who are spiritually hungry for the bread of Life. This call to faith was even the case in the OT under the OC, for observe Isa 55:1-2

Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

2 Wherefore do ye spend money for that which is not bread? and your labour for that which satisfieth not? hearken diligently unto me, and eat ye that[Bread] which is good, and let your soul delight itself in fatness.

Bread here is the Lord Jesus Christ and those OC Doctrines which set Him forth as the object of Faith Jn 8:56 !

In other words men do seek to come to God other than by a Election in Christ, For those who will believe and Trust in Christ, the bread from heaven Jn 6:32,33,41,50-51,58, they first need to be made to hunger for that bread or for His Righteousness as Per Matt 5:6.

The Righteousness here is Christ's Righteousness, the bread of life Jn 6:35

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

And it is the Holy Spirit who creates this Spiritual Hunger and Thirst for Christ, the Bread of Life and His Righteousness, as we see in Jn 16:8,10,14 !

And so pay attention, for those who truly have a Spiritual Hunger for the Bread of Life,and Christ's Righteousness, its all satisfied in Christ the Bread of Life, and Christ our Righteousness, and thus the Gospel reveals to such a Righteousness of God, revealed to from to faith, thus confirming Jesus promise Matt 5:6

6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

That word filled also means satisfied or fulfill as to fulfill a desire ! Also to feed !

They shall be fed by the Gospel sent to them revealing to them the Righteousness of God, which is Christ Righteousness Imputed to them, and now this being made known to them consciously to God given Faith, and this is how Faith in Christ is accomplished in the Purpose of God for Salvation !

 

[svedbygrace]

Faith in Christ for Salvation cont

Many false teachers teach that Salvation is offered by the Gospel to all without exception, and that many to whom it is offered, that they just do not want it and so refuse it. This however is nothing but a lie, for the Salvation call is always directed to a specific set of characters like, Whosoever will [spiritual desire], but this call does exempt those who have no will to come as here Jn 5:40

40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. or whosoever is laboring and are heavy laden Matt 11:28

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. OR

Whosoever thirst Jn 7:37

In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Matt 5:6

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

So for those who do not hunger and thirst, or who are not laboring and heavy laden, there is no call for them unto Faith in Christ.

To such Christ would not be precious, but unto us who believe, He is Precious 1 Pet 2:7

Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

The call to faith in Christ does not go out to any who are content and or indifferent in their sin. Do not be fooled by the deceivers; For listen, if you invite a hungry man to bread, he comes and eats, if you summon a thirsty man to drink, he thankfully comes and drinks, you summons a laboring burdened to rest and refreshment, he gladly receives it. If we recall Esau how he sold his birthright to his brother Jacob, it was while Esau was in a weary/ exhausted condition Gen 25:27-30

27 And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.

28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.

29 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:

30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.

Notice Vs 29-30, when a person is weary, exhausted from working, his body craves or desires meat, rest and refreshment as Esau, such persons will not reject and treat with indifference that which they do desire and crave ! So it is in the Spiritual realm of things, with the Gospel feast, for it is prepared for them for whom God prepares them beforehand to receive it ! Lk 1:17

And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Elias, to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.23

 

[svedbygrace]

Eph 2:8

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Every commentator I know of, according to the grammatical structure of the sentence in the Greek, the gift of God only refers to the grace

Faith is from the Grace, hence one believes by Grace the Gift of God Acts 18:27

27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:

So it does not matter, the Grace is not of ourselves, so quite naturally neither is the Faith !

See where faith comes from also from 2 Pet 1:1

However that doesn't mean that Faith can be produced apart from God

Its a fruit of the Spirit Gal 5:22, one receives faith to believe from the New Birth !

1 Pet 1:3

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

That lively Hope and Faith are one and the same, that is Hope is born out of Faith !

The scripture here is plain that this lively hope / faith comes from being begotten again. The word begotten here is the greek word anagennaō
which means:

produce again, be born again, born anew

2) metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

That new life is a Life of Faith opposesd to a life of unbelief !26

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Re: Faith in Christ for Salvation cont

Many false teachers teach that Salvation is offered by the Gospel to all without exception, and that many to whom it is offered, that they just do not want it and so refuse it. This however is nothing but a lie, for the Salvation call is always directed to a specific set of characters like, Whosoever will [spiritual desire], but this call does exempt those who have no will to come as here Jn 5:40

you have it backwards.

before we can come to christ, we can do no good. there are non righteous.

we can not learn to do good until first our relationship with God is restored. this can not happen until we are born again, and our sin is washed away.

salvation is offered to all. unfortunately. people want to earn it by doing good, then think God will save them. they think to highly of themselves. and place self over God. god will reject their righteous deeds as filthy rags, and reject them also. unless they humble themselves and come to the throne room of grace ond ask God for his grace gift.

your teaching law not grace my friend, there is no grace in your gospel.

 

[svedbygrace]

before we can come to christ, we can do no good. there are non righteous.

Coming to Christ is doing good, and the natural man can do no good. Also please address all the points made in post 34.

 

[svedbygrace]

Faith is a Gift of God's Favor to a person, in other words all for whom Christ died, even while being enemies in themselves, they had nevertheless been reconciled to God, strictly by the Death of His Son. Now to be reconciled also means to be received into God's Favor ! The word reconciled is the greek word katallassō and means:


to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value

a) to reconcile (those who are at variance)

b) return to favour with, be reconciled to one

c) to receive one into favour


Hence all those favored ones, God gives them Faith to know and understand what Christ has done for them by His blood !

Thats why Paul writes this Rom 8:32

32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

That word give is the greek word charizomai which means to:

to do something pleasant or agreeable (to one), to do a favour to, gratify

a) to show one's self gracious, kind, benevolent

b) to grant forgiveness, to pardon

c) to give graciously, give freely, bestow

1) to forgive

2) graciously to restore one to another

3) to preserve for one a person in peril

And its the same word Paul uses here Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Its a must for all whom Christ died, for them to be given Faith in behalf of Christ, for them to believe upon Him for Salvation !28

 

[svedbygrace]

Chosen to believe, not believe to be Chosen !

Isa 43:10

Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Remember Jesus said Jn 17:3

And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And John also wrote 1 Jn 5:20

20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Every True Believer is one of God's Elect, and Faith or Believing is what they were Chosen unto, and not because of !

Lets look at 1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Notice unto obedience, not because of obedience ! Now this obedience is Faith, meaning the obedience of Faith Rom 16:26

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

Also 2 Thess 2:13 is to the same purport 2 Thess 2:13

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:29

 

[starfield]

Re: Faith in Christ for Salvation cont

Many false teachers teach that Salvation is offered by the Gospel to all without exception, and that many to whom it is offered, that they just do not want it and so refuse it. This however is nothing but a lie, for the Salvation call is always directed to a specific set of characters like, Whosoever will [spiritual desire], but this call does exempt those who have no will to come as here Jn 5:40

I can't believe my eyes! ^ Another hyper-Calvinism twaddle.

If salvation's call is directed to specific people (an elite group) then God plays favouritism. It is not His will that all should be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Svedbygrace, haven't you read Acts 17:30, Romans 10:13, Titus 2:11, 2 Peter 3:9, 1 John 2:2, etc., indicating that salvation is offered by the gospel to all without exception but has to be received by faith? Also, that faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God?