False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture

[rewriter]

Most of us don't have the time to study Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, Latin etc. We should be thankful to the Lord for raising up faithful Ministers, who have devoted their lives to Theology.
We are blessed to reap the benefits of 2000 years of study by the Church Fathers. There is now no stone unturned, every single verse of the Bible has been exhaustively studied and fully interpreted.

Our Minister advised us to study the Bible in groups, rather than privately. He said if an Elder is not available, there should be at least one Deacon in the group.

The Church is the Body of Christ, each member has a different function. Some are called to teach and others to serve in various ways. God gives the gift of teaching and discernment to the Elders, so we should always consult them, if we're not sure of something.

A hundred fifty years ago, when the work week was often 12-hour days, 6 days a week, there were lots of average people who had the time to learn Greek and Latin, they were called "educated", many also learned Hebrew. And if you study the history of theology, there are huge cases of doctrines and understandings of verses recorded. A verse suddenly goes from meaning one thing to meaning something totally different, doctrines go from being clearly spelled out in scripture to being clearly denied in scripture, and that is even within the same denominational tradition. Unless one can explain the drastic shifts, one cannot truthfully claim to have proper insight. And a hint, some of the drastic shifts coincide with political shifts, it became politically expedient to proclaim a different message than was previously pronounced, and sometimes the new message is the one that is preserved to this day.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Scriptures of Christ are all one perfectly unified word, even as the Godhead of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Therefore, every Scripture must be taught in context of all other Scripture, not just from verse to verse within a chapter of Scripture. To rightly teach any Scripture, we must do so in context of all Scripture taken together as one complete word.

If we separate one Scripture from other Scriptures, not just verse to verse within a certain chapter, but also from other chapters and books, then we are falsely teaching Scripture out of context. The end result with be contradicting the unity of Scripture written for doctrine and prophecy of God.

This is commonly done by unbelievers seeking fault with Scripture, to say God's words are not inerrant.

Isa 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

From this one verse alone, anyone could teach that the God of the Bible is the creator of evil things, and so is an evil creator doing evil things. However taken in context of all Scripture together:

Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

Here we see that God cannot do evil, because He can't even be tempted with evil. Nor does He tempt anyone to do evil. Therefore, Is 45:7 must be read and taught in context of James 1:13, that the God of the Bible cannot be an evil Creator creating and doing evil. Such as the pagan God Moloch.

Such false accusations against the God of the Bible, however is also done by believers, in order to teach their own false doctrine.

Eph{2:8}
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

By this verse alone, anyone could say that salvation is only by faith through faith, to the exclusion of repentance and works.

By that rule of exclusion from other Scriptures:

Gal 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ,

By this verse alone, anyone could say that justification is by faith of Jesus Christ alone, to the exclusion of repentance and works and grace.

Titus{3:3}
But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

And by this verse alone, anyone can say that salvation is by the mercy of God alone, to the exclusion of repentance and works and grace and faith.

However, taken in context of all Scripture together, not only unifies the gospel of Jesus Christ into one principle doctrine, but also does away with the ad absurdum of isolating one Scripture to the exclusion of others:

Mark{1:15}
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Heb {6:1}
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Repentance is principally necessary for salvation by grace through faith toward God.

James{2:14}
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

James{2:21}
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?...Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

And works are necessary to be saved and justified by grace through faith of Jesus Christ.

And so, when we read any Scripture, we must always include all Scripture pertaining to the same thing, in order to know the unified principle gospel and doctrine of Jesus Christ.

Anyone teaching falsely from any certain Scripture, but excluding other Scripture pertaining to it, is advocating for a gospel and doctrine of another Christ, not the Jesus Christ of Scriptures.

Gal 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Well said and good examples shown

“For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:13-14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

New borns need milk to survive and even thrive ….until they grow and mature and can eat meat even need to eat other things than milk because they’re growing and meant to grow ……

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes, we should be willing to learn from others including elders, but they are not infallible, so their teachings should be compared with our own understanding of Scripture. Beware of authoritarians who try to come between you and God (1Tim. 2:5).

Or maybe compared to what scripturre says when examined in context it’s usually pretty well stated if we read a section instead of just a verse especially with Paul’s writings uniquely.

you can make Paul’s doctrine all this type of thing because there’s alot of it

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-8‬ ‭

or you can make it all this type of thing and reject that other half of what he taught in his doctrine

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:5-7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The problem is the context of what he was writing begins like this

“Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭NIV‬‬

when people speak of one subject it doesn’t eliminate every other point and subject that’s made in scripture it all is communicating a rather short and simple message to believers in Christ repetetively in many different ways by many people using many words at many different times …… but all from one holy spirit communicating a very detailed message and historical record of man’s dealings with almighty god , and our hope for life everlasting in him …..

we often stifle our own self because we try to make a few verses and one point in the doctrine , everything , to the point we actually si oky reject the rest of what it says because we are so focused on just a line or two …..

we miss the forest , staring at a tree or two , miss a lot of the message because we’re refusing to hear and accept it whether it be this part

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—”….

Or this one

“But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It’s all true and relevant and matters and shapes the message as intended by God . Grace isn’t opposed to doing good and accepting the judgements of Christ . And obedience and doing good , isn’t opposed to acknowledging Gods grace . It’s all part of one message meant to save and redeem and renew us from sinners to obedient children by our new nature …….

 

[ATG]

Wow, what version are you using?

I only looked up Isaiah, God doesn’t create evil. (?) Darkness nor calamity is NOT evil!

“I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45‬:‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

God is not a dark Creator creating darkness, nor a calamitous Creator creating calamity.

And so, context study of all Scriptures is necessary to combat conclusions from Scriptures taken in isolation.

And once again, we see it is not a translation problem, nor necessary to dep dive into original Script.

Faith toward Jesus Christ's promise to preserve His words without error, acknowledges Him doing so on earth, not only in the old Script, but also sufficiently translated into every language of man.

And of course, if anyone is seeking to sideline the OP point by presumptive original/translation arguments, it doesn't work. Scripture of God is still one unified written word of God, both in original and translation language. Which must not be misread nor falsely taught in isolated manner, whether in the original language, or translated.

 

[ATG]

I only looked up Isaiah, God doesn’t create evil. (?) Darkness nor calamity is NOT evil!

“I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the Lord, do all these things.’”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45‬:‭7‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

On this point, the teaching of all Scripture in context, still concludes the same thing: God did not create Lucifer evil, nor any man. Angels and men created with power to choose good or evil, create their own evil by not choosing the good of God.

And so also, God did not create heaven and earth with void calamity. Several Scriptures taken together can show that God created the first heaven and earth in good light, but then flooded that old world as judgment of Lucifer's pride and rebellion against God's holy and righteous throne.

 

[ATG]

For the most part reading in context is always wise, however, there are many verses that can be taken alone, too.

Completely agree. Well said. They can be called proof texts, by which other Scripture can be rightly interpreted. And 'cornerstones of the faith' toward God.

Jhn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Only pseudo-translation arguments can be used here, to try and say that the Word was not God, but only a god. Which is a good reason why original Script arguments are not necessary to know the first principles of God's revelation and doctrine of Christ.

 

[TruthDefender]

Completely agree. Well said. They can be called proof texts, by which other Scripture can be rightly interpreted. And 'cornerstones of the faith' toward God.

Jhn 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Only pseudo-translation arguments can be used here, to try and say that the Word was not God, but only a god. Which is a good reason why original Script arguments are not necessary to know the first principles of God's revelation and doctrine of Christ.

There are many gods and many Lords, too, but He created all of them. However, there is only One Supreme God over all, and only One Savior who can save us.

“For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many Lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭8‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[rewriter]

There are many gods and many Lords, too, but He created all of them. However, there is only One Supreme God over all, and only One Savior who can save us.

“For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many Lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭8‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

You are amending scripture when you cite this passage in support of your statement that there is only one supreme God as Paul includes the phrase "yet for us".

Now there is evidence for a single supreme deity that is all-loving, all-knowing, all-present and just, but traditional Christianity adds a judgmental aspect that is harder to justify, requiring specific understandings of certain biblical passages based on unprovable claims (the Holy Spirit might support these understandings but how can you prove such, as opposed to merely believing).

 

[ATG]

A very simple question for you. Where is the definition of scripture?

Dan 10:21
But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Mar 12:10
And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Gal 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Gal 4:30
Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

1Ti 5:18
For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Jas 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Jas 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Jas 4:5
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

1Pe 2:6
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

2Pe 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Just a few Scriptures about Scriptures, what they are and what they do. There are more where they came from.

The point being, if anyone seeks to know the truth of God in the Scriptures: Go to the Scriptures to see.

I can easily find at least four definitions of what constitutes scripture from different Christian groups. However, none of these definitions have any support other than human tradition.

Exactly. People argue their traditions among one another, until the grave. God reveals His Scriptures of truth forever.

Mar 7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Mat 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

The point again being, that those who believe and trust in the Scripture of God, only teach from the Scriptures of God. It's pointless vanity for people to argue from their traditions about Scriptures of God.

I.e. The Op is about falsely teaching the Scriptures, but isolating one Scripture from another. Side arguments from traditions of men about what the Scriptures are, is meaningless.

This includes the Protestant collection. So where, outside of human tradition, do you find a clear statement of what is or is not scripture.

Inside the Book of Scriptures. AKA The Bible.

Quoting what your preferred HUMAN collection says is meaningless unless you have something clearly outside of human tradition.

Exactly. All truth of God is inside His Book of Scriptures. All human traditions outside of His Scriptures, meaninglessly end in the grave.

This argument is exactly the same as Sola Scriptura vs Catholic outside traditions, such as Mariology, Veritable Sacraments, Penance, Priest confessionals, Papal supremacy, etc...

Conclusion: If anyone is going to argue the Bible with me, then by all means, argue the Bible. Otherwise, men's temporary traditions are meaningless curiosities at best, such as comparable religion, myths, fables, cosmic spiritism, and conspiracy theories.

 

[ATG]

The only difference I noticed was that I view the NT as teaching one Gospel plus many doctrines that are not necessary to know in order to be saved,

The only important difference is that the NT gospel and doctrine of Christ are one. We do agree there are principles of the gospel and doctrine of Christ, that are not necessary to be saved, but are edifying for knowledge and spiritual understanding.

Our real difference is that I only teach Scriptures by what the Scriptures themselves say. Scripture only speaks of one doctrine, this doctrine, the doctrine, never of two doctrines. That is the leaven that divides the churches of God according to different doctrines.

Mat 12:25
Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

The moment anyone nameing Christ sepaks of two doctrines of Christ, is the moment anyone naming Christ can have a doctrine of their own truth.

Because if two, then also three, and more:

1Co 5:4
Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old

although the two I cited as guidance for interpreting GW are necessary at least implicitly.

And I give the two Scriptures, that are necessary to do so.

And those two Scriptures simply say: To teach Scriptures of God, only teach from Scriptures of God. Including how to teach from Scriptures of God: Only what's written, not what's not written.

 

[TruthDefender]

You are amending scripture when you cite this passage in support of your statement that there is only one supreme God as Paul includes the phrase "yet for us".

Now there is evidence for a single supreme deity that is all-loving, all-knowing, all-present and just, but traditional Christianity adds a judgmental aspect that is harder to justify, requiring specific understandings of certain biblical passages based on unprovable claims (the Holy Spirit might support these understandings but how can you prove such, as opposed to merely believing).

I believe in what God says. Idk exactly what you mean by amending; I’m not changing anything?

The “yet for us” was said due to the fact that they understood there are many gods and many lords, BUT they said for “us” there is only one through Whom all things exist.

There are many gods, many Lords. Did He not fill the heavens? Is He not the supreme God who created ALL things? Is He not the Lord of hostS?

 

[ATG]

Or maybe compared to what scripturre says when examined in context it’s usually pretty well stated if we read a section instead of just a verse especially with Paul’s writings uniquely.

Correct.

We should not be so uniquely interested in some Scriptures, to the dishonouring of others. All Scriptures of God are uniquely His own words.

Another example is honouring the 'Red letters' of Jesus' words about all others. All the Scriptures of God are written in the red blood of the prophets and apostles of Jesus Christ.

Mat 23:35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

And in context of some anti-translation arguments made here, those righteous red letters include translations from the original Script for all comers to read for themselves.

when people speak of one subject it doesn’t eliminate every other point and subject that’s made in scripture

Now this is perfect. Well said. It's the right rebuke to everyone quoting a Scripture, who then says there's nothing in it about such and such, when other Scripture does quote such and such.

Such as the 2nd example given in the OP: If we are going to exclude repentance and works from salvation and justification, because Eph 2:8 only speaks of grace and faith, then the ad absurdum conclusion is that we can exclude grace and faith from salvation and justification, because Titus 3:4 only speaks of mercy saving us.

we miss the forest , staring at a tree or two ,

Correct again. There are only oaks in one spot, therefore the forest must be all oaks, and not also pines, birch, nor ash.

“But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It’s all true and relevant and matters and shapes the message as intended by God . Grace isn’t opposed to doing good and accepting the judgements of Christ . And obedience and doing good , isn’t opposed to acknowledging Gods grace .

Well said from that Scripture and others together: Being justified by works does not frustrate the grace of God, because only works by grace are justified with God.

 

[ATG]

There are many gods and many Lords, too, but He created all of them. However, there is only One Supreme God over all, and only One Savior who can save us.

“For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many Lords), yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.”
‭‭I Corinthians‬ ‭8‬:‭5‬-‭6‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

True. And that one God and Savior is our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Ti 1:1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope;

 

[ATG]

You are amending scripture when you cite this passage in support of your statement that there is only one supreme God as Paul includes the phrase "yet for us".

Are you preaching there are other Gods, that are beside the God of Israel and Jesus Christ? That God is only supreme to us that believe, but not to all other Gods and their believers?

Isa 45:5
I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

Now there is evidence for a single supreme deity that is all-loving, all-knowing, all-present and just,

There's evidence? As in only some evidence? Are you preaching Unitarianism?

but traditional Christianity adds a judgmental aspect that is harder to justify,

There's nothing hard about quoting Scripture:

1 Peter{1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy. And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man’s work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:

Rev 20:11
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

 

[rewriter]

Dan 10:21
But I will shew thee that which is noted in the scripture of truth: and there is none that holdeth with me in these things, but Michael your prince.

Mar 12:10
And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:

Gal 3:22
But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Gal 4:30
Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

1Ti 5:18
For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

2Ti 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

Jas 2:8
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Jas 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Jas 4:5
Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?

1Pe 2:6
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

2Pe 1:20
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

Just a few Scriptures about Scriptures, what they are and what they do. There are more where they came from.

The point being, if anyone seeks to know the truth of God in the Scriptures: Go to the Scriptures to see.



Exactly. People argue their traditions among one another, until the grave. God reveals His Scriptures of truth forever.

Mar 7:13
Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Mat 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

The point again being, that those who believe and trust in the Scripture of God, only teach from the Scriptures of God. It's pointless vanity for people to argue from their traditions about Scriptures of God.

I.e. The Op is about falsely teaching the Scriptures, but isolating one Scripture from another. Side arguments from traditions of men about what the Scriptures are, is meaningless.




Inside the Book of Scriptures. AKA The Bible.


Exactly. All truth of God is inside His Book of Scriptures. All human traditions outside of His Scriptures, meaninglessly end in the grave.

This argument is exactly the same as Sola Scriptura vs Catholic outside traditions, such as Mariology, Veritable Sacraments, Penance, Priest confessionals, Papal supremacy, etc...

Conclusion: If anyone is going to argue the Bible with me, then by all means, argue the Bible. Otherwise, men's temporary traditions are meaningless curiosities at best, such as comparable religion, myths, fables, cosmic spiritism, and conspiracy theories.

I see no problem with your quotes regarding scripture. But you are dodging the question, where is a firm statement as to what GOD considers scripture, as opposed to what HUMANS claim is scripture? Humans have at least 4 different collections they call Christian scriptures, and there are many other collections that other humans, non-Christians, claim are divinely inspired scripture. As far as I know, none of these claims has indisputable support. So where is your evidence that the Protestant Bible, the shortest/smallest "Christian" Bible contains the books approved by God, not mankind?

 

[GWH]

Or maybe compared to what scripturre says when examined in context it’s usually pretty well stated if we read a section instead of just a verse especially with Paul’s writings uniquely.

you can make Paul’s doctrine all this type of thing because there’s alot of it

“Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:19-21, 24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“God “will repay each person according to what they have done.” To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭2:6-8‬ ‭

or you can make it all this type of thing and reject that other half of what he taught in his doctrine

“For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭2:8‬ ‭NIV‬‬

“he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:5-7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

The problem is the context of what he was writing begins like this

“Remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good, to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone.”
‭‭Titus‬ ‭3:1-2‬ ‭NIV‬‬

when people speak of one subject it doesn’t eliminate every other point and subject that’s made in scripture it all is communicating a rather short and simple message to believers in Christ repetetively in many different ways by many people using many words at many different times …… but all from one holy spirit communicating a very detailed message and historical record of man’s dealings with almighty god , and our hope for life everlasting in him …..

we often stifle our own self because we try to make a few verses and one point in the doctrine , everything , to the point we actually si oky reject the rest of what it says because we are so focused on just a line or two …..

we miss the forest , staring at a tree or two , miss a lot of the message because we’re refusing to hear and accept it whether it be this part

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—”….

Or this one

“But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:3-7‬ ‭NIV‬‬

It’s all true and relevant and matters and shapes the message as intended by God . Grace isn’t opposed to doing good and accepting the judgements of Christ . And obedience and doing good , isn’t opposed to acknowledging Gods grace . It’s all part of one message meant to save and redeem and renew us from sinners to obedient children by our new nature …….

Yes, and when we put it all together (Eph. 2:8-9 + 10), we understand that we are saved via faith in the atonement of Messiah first, which is followed by godly/loving works as we persevere.

horse > cart

 

[GWH]

The only important difference is that the NT gospel and doctrine of Christ are one. We do agree there are principles of the gospel and doctrine of Christ, that are not necessary to be saved, but are edifying for knowledge and spiritual understanding.

Our real difference is that I only teach Scriptures by what the Scriptures themselves say. Scripture only speaks of one doctrine, this doctrine, the doctrine, never of two doctrines. That is the leaven that divides the churches of God according to different doctrines.

Mat 12:25
Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:

The moment anyone nameing Christ sepaks of two doctrines of Christ, is the moment anyone naming Christ can have a doctrine of their own truth.

Because if two, then also three, and more:

1Co 5:4
Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old


And I give the two Scriptures, that are necessary to do so.

And those two Scriptures simply say: To teach Scriptures of God, only teach from Scriptures of God. Including how to teach from Scriptures of God: Only what's written, not what's not written.

No, there are Scriptures teaching God’s requirement for salvation, which is the Gospel, and there are teachings in Scripture that build on the foundation or doctrine of Christ.

 

[TruthDefender]

I see no problem with your quotes regarding scripture. But you are dodging the question, where is a firm statement as to what GOD considers scripture, as opposed to what HUMANS claim is scripture? Humans have at least 4 different collections they call Christian scriptures, and there are many other collections that other humans, non-Christians, claim are divinely inspired scripture. As far as I know, none of these claims has indisputable support. So where is your evidence that the Protestant Bible, the shortest/smallest "Christian" Bible contains the books approved by God, not mankind?

Please don’t speak for all humans, I’m human and respectfully, I don’t agree with your statements.

The whole Bible is considered God’s word; All 66 books. The whole thing is God inspired/ God breathed.

 

[rewriter]

Please don’t speak for all humans, I’m human and respectfully, I don’t agree with your statements.

The whole Bible is considered God’s word; All 66 books. The whole thing is God inspired/ God breathed.

Might I ask where I referenced all humans in a way that is false? Humans have multiple cultures humans speak multiple languages as their native tongue. Are either of these statements false? Do either of the general statements not fit you specifically, would you not claim to belong to a specific culture or have a specific native tongue?

What in my statements do you disagree with? I can identify four different collections by different Christian groups that are referred to as the "Holy Bible". I can identify other works by other religions are claimed to be inspired by God. I have not claimed that you accept any of these other works as inspired by God, but I have asked where is your verifiable evidence that your specific choice of what is true and complete scripture is the only scripture inspired by God.

Now if your evidence is merely that YOUR interpretation of what is recorded in a specific collection of works, that YOU consider complete, that is fine. But doing so places the accuracy of your claims squarely on your shoulders, no matter how much you try to transfer it to another entity, even God. That you belong to a community that also makes the same claims is also fine, but again, no matter how many humans make the claim, the support for the claim relies on humans, not God.

Paul's term in 2 Timothy 3:16 does include two Greek words that separately mean God and breath/spirit/wind, so there is clearly some connection to God as the ultimate source, but that does not tell us anything about exactly what the connection is. Any claims of certainty again lie squarely on the shoulders of the person making the claim.

I claim responsibility for my words. I believe that God has led me to my understanding, but it remains only provable as mine. Now perfect love casts out all fear, are you brave enough to acknowledge that your words are specifically your interpretation and not necessarily God's or are you too afraid to make such an admission.

 

[TruthDefender]

Might I ask where I referenced all humans in a way that is false? Humans have multiple cultures humans speak multiple languages as their native tongue. Are either of these statements false? Do either of the general statements not fit you specifically, would you not claim to belong to a specific culture or have a specific native tongue?

The way you speak tells me that you’re questioning which “camp” is correct. Why do you use the word “humans?” Are we not all human, and made in His image? Do you know of EBEs (extraterrestrial biological entities)? Why the usage of “human”? And yes, I know they exist.

Yes, I’m aware around the world that there are different cultures who speak different languages (I more so am aware. lol). This is an obvious understanding that most educated people possess.

You either have faith in Him, or you don’t. There is a whole plethora of archaeological evidence corroborating the Bible to be true, if you want to go that route.

What in my statements do you disagree with? I can identify four different collections by different Christian groups that are referred to as the "Holy Bible". I can identify other works by other religions are claimed to be inspired by God. I have not claimed that you accept any of these other works as inspired by God, but I have asked where is your verifiable evidence that your specific choice of what is true and complete scripture is the only scripture inspired by God.

See, your statements in this paragraph tell me you’re not sure which camp is correct.

This is ok, if you’re searching. However, if you’re trying to derail Christian’s by preaching/ sowing doubt, this is not ok. I just need to know, what is you’re intent?

For me, the Bible, 66 books, hold a wealth of knowledge, wisdom, and a historical timeline of human existence and intervention by God in one region of peoples. And of course, it tells us how the world, and all the things that exist, began (this would include the universe).

Now if your evidence is merely that YOUR interpretation of what is recorded in a specific collection of works, that YOU consider complete, that is fine. But doing so places the accuracy of your claims squarely on your shoulders, no matter how much you try to transfer it to another entity, even God. That you belong to a community that also makes the same claims is also fine, but again, no matter how many humans make the claim, the support for the claim relies on humans, not God.

Yes, this called having Faith in Him.

Paul's term in 2 Timothy 3:16 does include two Greek words that separately mean God and breath/spirit/wind, so there is clearly some connection to God as the ultimate source, but that does not tell us anything about exactly what the connection is. Any claims of certainty again lie squarely on the shoulders of the person making the claim.

It’s like you are familiar with God’s word, but at the same time you’re questioning the integrity of the whole thing. This is very confounding!
It would seem you’re confused, to say the least.

I believe in Him, in the Trinity, and that His Son, Jesus Christ, is the only God/ Saviour who can save you in the End. There maybe other gods from the past that people seem to still worship, but they are dead.

We know that Jesus rose from the dead and is living, sitting at the right hand of God the Father. He is alive and well, watching over us, and blessing us. He even blesses those who are not His. Everything that we have are blessings from Him. Praise Him!

I claim responsibility for my words. I believe that God has led me to my understanding, but it remains only provable as mine. Now perfect love casts out all fear, are you brave enough to acknowledge that your words are specifically your interpretation and not necessarily God's or are you too afraid to make such an admission.

I have faith in His word, the Bible, to be true and complete. I stand by His word!