False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture

[ATG]

My sins are not counted against me, because the Lord Jesus took my sins upon Himself and and made them His own.

The sins were laid upon the Lord's body, not His soul. Only the soul that sins, has sin upon his own soul. God does not impute sin to the righteous. Nor, can any person by power of thought impute their own sinning to anyone else.

Ezek 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

1 Pe 2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree..

The sins laid upon the Lord's body were put their by wicked hands sinning against Him. God did not stripe, strike, nor crucify His own Son, nor could He by law command execution for any transgression, including the false accusation of blasphemy.

Isaiah{50:5}
The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

Jesus was obedient to the Father and allowed evil men to do Him evil, not God Himself, nor by commandment of law, nor to impute sin and guilt to His righteous soul.

Mar 14:64
Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

But not only the sins of those wicked hands were laid on the Son's body, but also our own sinning against Christ was counted as laid upon Him also.

Gal 6:17
From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Pauls speaks similarly of having the marks of the Lord upon his own body, which the Lord did not, but only in service to the Lord did Paul also recieve stripes. Likewise, in obedience to the Father, the Son recieved stripes sinfully laid upon Him by evil leaders.

Likewise, when recieving stripes and execution, neither Paul nor His Lord were guilty of any crime, nor worthy of death by law.

But only with the Lord righteous and sinless Son Jesus, are all sins of man counted as laid upon His own body by all men that have sinned. And if we also transgress against Him even now, we are guilty of striping and striking the Lord's body, though He can no more be touched by any sinful acts against Him.

Because we have all sinned, Jesus Christ must come to die for every person on earth. Because we sinned against the Lord, beginning with Adam, then all sinners are the cause for Jesus' coming to die for our sins. We all that have sinned are therefore the cause and means of His death, by sinning against Him in scourging and crucifixion at the cross.

Anyone that has sinned against Christ, who says they are not the cause and means of His death, are saying they have not sinned, and so He need not come to die for them. Likewise, anyone that has sinned, who says they are not guilty of shedding His innocent blood, are saying that they would not have crucified nor forsaken Him at the cross.

Mat 23:29
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

Therefore, if anyone reckons they were also with Jesus on the cross, they reckon themselves to have joined Him in death, rather than forsake Him; And thus lie against Scripture of God, that declare He was indeed forsaken by all men, especially His own disciples.

Mar 15:12
And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews? And they cried out again, Crucify him. Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.

Mat 27:25
Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

He became sin for my sake, and suffered in my place.

The only man on earth, that we can say Jesus suffered in the place of, was Barabas:

Mat 27:21
The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.

None of us today were there to be chosen over Jesus and set free.

Suffering and dying for someone else, is not having their suffering and death. Another suffering and dying for us, is not us suffering and dying with them, else they did not suffer and die for us.

Suffering and dying for the sins of others, is not having nor committing their sins. Jesus Christ could not die for the sins of others, if He had sins Himself. Only the righteousness son of man, who had no sin could die for sins of all men.

Scruipture declares He did lay His life down willingly for us, but no Scripture says that Jesus bodily suffered and died in our stead. Every natural born person on earth must naturally suffer and die ourselves.

The tradition of Jesus 'suffering and dying instead of us' or 'in our place' is false and manifestly foolish, in light of the fact that no man has not surrffered and died since Jesus' own suuffering death on the cross.

That's another strange mystery of people's own spiritual and religious imagination:

Rev 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Notice the great mystery of Babylon is written on the forehead of the mystery-maker's foolish imagination...Not even the pagan mythogrophers ever concieved of a god or a god's son suffering and dying in place of someone, who was not even alive to suffer and die on earth at the time.

It's the mystery of iniquity at work overtime, to foolishly imagine that we do not suffer and die to God for our own transgressions, because the righteous and just man Jesus Christ was made to suffer and die on a cross by wicked hands of transgressors.

The unrighteous man cannot recive the good of the righteous by killing them unlawfully and unjustly...That is a wicked kind of pagan soul transference, where the victor recieved the power from the spirit of the vanquished foe.

 

[ATG]

His righteousness became my righteousness,

No one doing unrighteousness is righteous with the righteous God, but only them doing His righteousness:

1Jo 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is doing unrighteousness is not of God.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Because Jesus Christ the righteous rose from the dead, His righteousness can become our righteousness, but only if we repent of our own unrighteous deeds, and be cleansed by Him to do His righteousness.

Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

and my sin became His sin.

Eze 18:20
The soul that is sinning, it shall die.

Every man's sin is our own alone, and everyone that is doing unrighteous sin dies himself alone without God.

No man's sin can become the sin of another, except that person sin likewise. Jesus did no sin at all, and so could not become a sinner knowing and having sin against God.

Though He was tempted like us as a man, He never sinned like us as a sinner:

Heb 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Can you see how amazing this exchange is, there is no better news than the gospel message.

Rev 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH...And when I saw her, I wondered with great amazement..

Gal 1:6
I am amzed that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel...But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

2Co 11:13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is that if we repent of our own sinning for His sake, then He will give His righteousness by reason of being purged from all past sins. Jesus Christ does not 'exchange' His rightoeusness for any sin at all.

No man can exchange the sin of another man for their own, nor can any man exchange his righteousness with anyone doing unrighteousness...

God only imputes sin to the evil doer, and righteousness to the doer of good.

His people are not the Jews, for there is no Jew or Gentile or man or woman in the Body of Christ.

Finally. True Scripture.

We're all member of One Body.

Unfortuantely, at this point, that would only include yourself and others believing and living like you. That cannot include me, who does not at all believe your gospel, nor seek your confessed sinful manner of life. Likewise, you do not believe the gospel I preach, nor apparently seek in this life to live righteously without transgressions.

We are not a member of the same religious body.

The Lord Jesus came for this purpose, the sinners who crucified Him did so because that's what God predestined them to do.

False. God does not predestine, nor will any man to do evil.

No man can say that we do evil, because God wills us to do so:

Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

No man can say God does not create us in His own image to do good on earth, and not evil.

The Lords crucifixion was no accident, it was a fulfillment of prophecy.

True again.

Prophecy is preknowledge, not predetermination of will. Fulfillment of prophecy is proof of true prophecy, not proof of the will of the prophet, especially not of the right Spirit of prophecy:

Rev 19:10
Worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

 

[ATG]

I'm not sure why you listed all of the above verses, but none of them support your view about "taking up our cross and crucifying the old man for Jesus sake" .

'Na-ah' neither proves nor disproves anything.

And none of them support your "saved by works" version of the gospel.

Preaching against another gospel, that I don't preach, has nothing to do with the gospel I preach.

Nobody is saved by taking up their cross and crucifying the old man,

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Rom 10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report…For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

only those who put their trust in Christ's finished work on His cross are saved.

If we repent not of all our sins and trespassing against Jesus Christ, then He died for our sins in vain, because we repent not of sinning against Him.

Only if we repent of our sins for His sake, is He resurrected unto our justification.

 

[Journey_man]

And disobedience flows as the fruit of evil.

1Sa 24:13
As saith the proverb of the ancients, Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked:

Mat 15:18
But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man:

Mat 12:33
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.



Jhn 8:29
And he that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I do always those things that please him.

Phl 2:13
For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

If we are not doing our works to please God, then we are seeking to please men.

Jhn 5:44
How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

Matthew{23:5}
But all their works they do for to be seen of men:

Gal 1:10
For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

If our works are not justified with God, our works are unjust iniquity.

Isa 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

So, you're still scratching around looking for the non existent verse to support your unbiblical teaching, that a believer can lose his salvation by sinning. I have never come across anything in the Bible that supports this silly idea of yours.

 

[Journey_man]

By the law of shedding the innocent blood, all the land of the people are cursed as shedding the blood. Unless, the evil doer is executed by law.

Deu 19:10
That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.

Num 35:33
So ye shall not pollute the land wherein ye are: for blood it defileth the land: and the land cannot be cleansed of the blood that is shed therein, but by the blood of him that shed it. Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I the LORD dwell among the children of Israel.

Jesus Christ was the son of man, and so by law of the LORD all the land and people of the earth became defiled and guilty of His innocent shed blood.

And not only at the cross, but also now if we partake of the Lord's supper with transgession, then renew our guilt of His unjust execution on the cross:

1Co 11:27
Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

Heb 6:5
...seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Believers are not guilty for the death of His Son. Nor are we guilty for our own sins because Jesus paid the full penalty for them.

God legally declares a believer to be "not guilty" and fully righteous. God transfers the believer's sin and guilt to Jesus, and He transfers Jesus's perfect goodness to the believer.

Romans 8:1 states there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ.

 

[Journey_man]

The sins were laid upon the Lord's body, not His soul. Only the soul that sins, has sin upon his own soul. God does not impute sin to the righteous. Nor, can any person by power of thought impute their own sinning to anyone else.

Ezek 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

1 Pe 2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree..

The sins laid upon the Lord's body were put their by wicked hands sinning against Him. God did not stripe, strike, nor crucify His own Son, nor could He by law command execution for any transgression, including the false accusation of blasphemy.

Isaiah{50:5}
The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

Jesus was obedient to the Father and allowed evil men to do Him evil, not God Himself, nor by commandment of law, nor to impute sin and guilt to His righteous soul.

Mar 14:64
Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.

But not only the sins of those wicked hands were laid on the Son's body, but also our own sinning against Christ was counted as laid upon Him also.

Gal 6:17
From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus.

Pauls speaks similarly of having the marks of the Lord upon his own body, which the Lord did not, but only in service to the Lord did Paul also recieve stripes. Likewise, in obedience to the Father, the Son recieved stripes sinfully laid upon Him by evil leaders.

Likewise, when recieving stripes and execution, neither Paul nor His Lord were guilty of any crime, nor worthy of death by law.

But only with the Lord righteous and sinless Son Jesus, are all sins of man counted as laid upon His own body by all men that have sinned. And if we also transgress against Him even now, we are guilty of striping and striking the Lord's body, though He can no more be touched by any sinful acts against Him.

Because we have all sinned, Jesus Christ must come to die for every person on earth. Because we sinned against the Lord, beginning with Adam, then all sinners are the cause for Jesus' coming to die for our sins. We all that have sinned are therefore the cause and means of His death, by sinning against Him in scourging and crucifixion at the cross.

Anyone that has sinned against Christ, who says they are not the cause and means of His death, are saying they have not sinned, and so He need not come to die for them. Likewise, anyone that has sinned, who says they are not guilty of shedding His innocent blood, are saying that they would not have crucified nor forsaken Him at the cross.

Mat 23:29
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

Therefore, if anyone reckons they were also with Jesus on the cross, they reckon themselves to have joined Him in death, rather than forsake Him; And thus lie against Scripture of God, that declare He was indeed forsaken by all men, especially His own disciples.

Mar 15:12
And Pilate answered and said again unto them, What will ye then that I shall do unto him whom ye call the King of the Jews? And they cried out again, Crucify him. Then Pilate said unto them, Why, what evil hath he done? And they cried out the more exceedingly, Crucify him.

Mat 27:25
Then answered all the people, and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.




The only man on earth, that we can say Jesus suffered in the place of, was Barabas:

Mat 27:21
The governor answered and said unto them, Whether of the twain will ye that I release unto you? They said, Barabbas.

None of us today were there to be chosen over Jesus and set free.

Suffering and dying for someone else, is not having their suffering and death. Another suffering and dying for us, is not us suffering and dying with them, else they did not suffer and die for us.

Suffering and dying for the sins of others, is not having nor committing their sins. Jesus Christ could not die for the sins of others, if He had sins Himself. Only the righteousness son of man, who had no sin could die for sins of all men.

Scruipture declares He did lay His life down willingly for us, but no Scripture says that Jesus bodily suffered and died in our stead. Every natural born person on earth must naturally suffer and die ourselves.

The tradition of Jesus 'suffering and dying instead of us' or 'in our place' is false and manifestly foolish, in light of the fact that no man has not surrffered and died since Jesus' own suuffering death on the cross.

That's another strange mystery of people's own spiritual and religious imagination:

Rev 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Notice the great mystery of Babylon is written on the forehead of the mystery-maker's foolish imagination...Not even the pagan mythogrophers ever concieved of a god or a god's son suffering and dying in place of someone, who was not even alive to suffer and die on earth at the time.

It's the mystery of iniquity at work overtime, to foolishly imagine that we do not suffer and die to God for our own transgressions, because the righteous and just man Jesus Christ was made to suffer and die on a cross by wicked hands of transgressors.

The unrighteous man cannot recive the good of the righteous by killing them unlawfully and unjustly...That is a wicked kind of pagan soul transference, where the victor recieved the power from the spirit of the vanquished foe.

All the sins of God's elect were truly imputed to the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross. Imputation means to charge, credit, or reckon something to someone's account.

God the Father treated Jesus as if He had committed all the sins of the elect. Christ took the legal guilt and penalty of His people.

Jesus stood in the place of sinners as a substitute. Isaiah 53:6 "The Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."

2 Corinthians 5:21 God "made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

 

[Journey_man]

No one doing unrighteousness is righteous with the righteous God, but only them doing His righteousness:

1Jo 3:10
In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever is doing unrighteousness is not of God.

1 John{3:7}
Little children, let no man deceive you: he that is doing righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Because Jesus Christ the righteous rose from the dead, His righteousness can become our righteousness, but only if we repent of our own unrighteous deeds, and be cleansed by Him to do His righteousness.

Heb 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Eze 18:20
The soul that is sinning, it shall die.

Every man's sin is our own alone, and everyone that is doing unrighteous sin dies himself alone without God.

No man's sin can become the sin of another, except that person sin likewise. Jesus did no sin at all, and so could not become a sinner knowing and having sin against God.

Though He was tempted like us as a man, He never sinned like us as a sinner:

Heb 4:15
For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.


Rev 17:5
And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH...And when I saw her, I wondered with great amazement..

Gal 1:6
I am amzed that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel...But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

2Co 11:13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is that if we repent of our own sinning for His sake, then He will give His righteousness by reason of being purged from all past sins. Jesus Christ does not 'exchange' His rightoeusness for any sin at all.

No man can exchange the sin of another man for their own, nor can any man exchange his righteousness with anyone doing unrighteousness...

God only imputes sin to the evil doer, and righteousness to the doer of good.


Finally. True Scripture.


Unfortuantely, at this point, that would only include yourself and others believing and living like you. That cannot include me, who does not at all believe your gospel, nor seek your confessed sinful manner of life. Likewise, you do not believe the gospel I preach, nor apparently seek in this life to live righteously without transgressions.

We are not a member of the same religious body.


False. God does not predestine, nor will any man to do evil.

No man can say that we do evil, because God wills us to do so:

Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

No man can say God does not create us in His own image to do good on earth, and not evil.


True again.

Prophecy is preknowledge, not predetermination of will. Fulfillment of prophecy is proof of true prophecy, not proof of the will of the prophet, especially not of the right Spirit of prophecy:

Rev 19:10
Worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

I have already corrected you on this previously.

 

[Journey_man]

'Na-ah' neither proves nor disproves anything.




Preaching against another gospel, that I don't preach, has nothing to do with the gospel I preach.


2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Rom 10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report…For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;


If we repent not of all our sins and trespassing against Jesus Christ, then He died for our sins in vain, because we repent not of sinning against Him.

Only if we repent of our sins for His sake, is He resurrected unto our justification.

I'm not preaching against your version of the gospel. I'm merely proclaiming the Biblical gospel, which is nothing like yours

 

[ATG]

Believers are not guilty for the death of His Son. Nor are we guilty for our own sins because Jesus paid the full penalty for them.

God legally declares a believer to be "not guilty" and fully righteous. God transfers the believer's sin and guilt to Jesus, and He transfers Jesus's perfect goodness to the believer.

If we are doing evil, we have no good. If we are doing good, we have God's goodness.

Identity transference without doing the truth, is self-justification and deception:

2Th 2:10
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?...For there is no respect of persons with God.

Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man is sowing, that shall he also reap. For he that is sowing to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sowing to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…For there is no respect of persons with God.

Romans 8:1 states there is no condemnation for those who belong to Christ.

Romans 8:1 states There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who are not walking after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[ATG]

Believers are not guilty for the death of His Son.

Mat 23:29
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

Nor are we guilty for our own sins because Jesus paid the full penalty for them.

If we do not accept guilt for our own transgressions, then we call the Spirit a liar, and sear our conscience to His convicting judgement of our works:

Jhn 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

1Jo 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[ATG]

All the sins of God's elect were truly imputed to the Lord Jesus Christ on the cross. Imputation means to charge, credit, or reckon something to someone's account.

God the Father treated Jesus as if He had committed all the sins of the elect. Christ took the legal guilt and penalty of His people.

Already given the Scriptures that Jesus did not sin, knew no sin, and could not be legally nor justly imputed with sin, counted as a sinner, nor judged guilty of any sinning.

Jesus Christ the righeous was not a sinner, nor became a sinner for any man.

Jesus stood in the place of sinners as a substitute. Isaiah 53:6 "The Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all."

Proof that the sinful stripes laid on Jesus' back, and nailed into His hands were counted as by all our own sinful hands, and not just the wicked hands of Romans and Jews.

The offence of the cross is twofold: That sinful men slew the Son of God, and that all man who sin are guilty of His innocent blood.

If sinful men claim Jesus' righteousness by His death on a cross, then the cross is an offence to righteous judgment.

Imputing Jesus as the sinner, and justifying ourselves by His death, is greater offence than the first offence of unjustly crucifying God's righteous and dear Son.

2 Corinthians 5:21 God "made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."

Jesus was made to be a sinner for us to crucify Him unjustly. He died for us to repent of our sins.

But what we meant for the evil, God allowed for the good, that His Son might rise again and justify them that repent.

Jesus must die for us, because we all have sinned. Just must die, that He may rise again for our justification.

Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

All that have sinned are guilty of His death at His cross, and all that repent are justified unto life by His resurrection.

 

[ATG]

I'm not preaching against your version of the gospel. I'm merely proclaiming the Biblical gospel, which is nothing like yours

And so we agree and conclude. We do not believe, preach, nor live by the same gospel.

I do not live by the gospel preaching continue daily sinning, but the gospel of doing righteousness at all times.

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

 

[Journey_man]

If we are doing evil, we have no good. If we are doing good, we have God's goodness.

Identity transference without doing the truth, is self-justification and deception:

2Th 2:10
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Rom 2:3
And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?...For there is no respect of persons with God.

Gal 6:7
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man is sowing, that shall he also reap. For he that is sowing to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that sowing to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting…For there is no respect of persons with God.


Romans 8:1 states There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who are not walking after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

How on earth did you come to believe that "If we are doing good, we have God's goodness." The Bible doesn't teach any such nonsense.

Here's what the Bible actually reveals about the so called "good guys". -

Matthew23:27-28"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness."

Romans 10:3 "For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to righteousness of God."

Luke 18:9-14 The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, describes a man who trusted in himself that he was righteous and viewed others with contempt, boasting of his fasting and tithing before God.

These verses highlight the total depravity of man and the error of trying to earn justification before God through your own effort. Even "good" outward actions are tainted by remaining sin.

I have previously mentioned that regeneration (the new birth by the Holy Spirit) breaks the governing power or dominion of sin, but it does not completely eradicate the presence of remaining sin (indwelling corruption or concupiscence) in this life.

Because sin remains, believers experience a lifelong internal war against remaining corruption. This ongoing struggle requires the daily grace of repentance and the active work of mortification (putting sin to death).

While a regenerated people stumble and commit individual acts of sin, we do not continue in a state of unbroken, unrepentant mastery to sin. As explored in explanations of texts like 1 John 3, a true believer does not make a "practice" or habitual lifestyle of sin.

Complete freedom from the presence and capability of sin only occurs at physical death.

 

[Journey_man]

Mat 23:29
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.



If we do not accept guilt for our own transgressions, then we call the Spirit a liar, and sear our conscience to His convicting judgement of our works:

Jhn 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

1Jo 1:10
If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

I have no idea why you made reference to Matthew 23:29 since I'm not a Scribe, or Pharisee or Hypocrite.

I do not accept guilt for my own transgressions, because Jesus took my guilt onto Himself and imputed His righteousness to me. I rejoice in the knowledge that I'm not going to be condemned for my past, present or future sins.

God placed my legal guilt and penalty onto Jesus, Christ has already suffered the punishment that I deserve. Jesus did not become a sinner personally, but His account was charged with my sin, God credits Christ's perfect obedience and holiness to my account.

I am legally declared righteous before God the Judge rather than made morally perfect all at once. This transfer works because I share a spiritual union with Christ, making the exchange just and complete.

 

[Journey_man]

Already given the Scriptures that Jesus did not sin, knew no sin, and could not be legally nor justly imputed with sin, counted as a sinner, nor judged guilty of any sinning.

Jesus Christ the righeous was not a sinner, nor became a sinner for any man.


Proof that the sinful stripes laid on Jesus' back, and nailed into His hands were counted as by all our own sinful hands, and not just the wicked hands of Romans and Jews.

The offence of the cross is twofold: That sinful men slew the Son of God, and that all man who sin are guilty of His innocent blood.

If sinful men claim Jesus' righteousness by His death on a cross, then the cross is an offence to righteous judgment.

Imputing Jesus as the sinner, and justifying ourselves by His death, is greater offence than the first offence of unjustly crucifying God's righteous and dear Son.



Jesus was made to be a sinner for us to crucify Him unjustly. He died for us to repent of our sins.

But what we meant for the evil, God allowed for the good, that His Son might rise again and justify them that repent.

Jesus must die for us, because we all have sinned. Just must die, that He may rise again for our justification.

Rom 4:25
Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

All that have sinned are guilty of His death at His cross, and all that repent are justified unto life by His resurrection.

You might want to reconsider what you stated about =

"Jesus being made a sinner for us to crucify Him unjustly.".

But in the second paragraph, you stated that "Jesus Christ the righteous was not a sinner."

You can't have it both ways, He either was a sinner or He wasn't

 

[Journey_man]

And so we agree and conclude. We do not believe, preach, nor live by the same gospel.

I do not live by the gospel preaching continue daily sinning, but the gospel of doing righteousness at all times.

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

There is nothing about daily sinning in any of those verses. But as usual you have a way of reading your private opinion into every verse and fundamentally changing it's meaning

 

[ATG]

How on earth did you come to believe that "If we are doing good, we have God's goodness." The Bible doesn't teach any such nonsense.

3 John{1:11}
Beloved, follow not that which is evil, but that which is good. He that is doing good is of God: but he that is doing evil hath not seen God.

Here's what the Bible actually reveals about the so called "good guys". -

Matthew23:27-28"Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness."

Romans 10:3 "For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to righteousness of God."

This is what God says about self-righteous hypocrites, not about His sons doing good.

Ps 14:1
The fool saith in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

This is what God says about unbelievers, not about His sons doing good.

Luke 18:9-14 The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, describes a man who trusted in himself that he was righteous and viewed others with contempt, boasting of his fasting and tithing before God.

These verses highlight the total depravity of man and the error of trying to earn justification before God through your own effort. Even "good" outward actions are tainted by remaining sin.

That's what God says about the self-justifiers by works alone, not about His sons doing good.

Jas 2:14
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? ...Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.


This is what God says about the self-justifiers by faith alone, not about His sons doing good.

I have previously mentioned that regeneration (the new birth by the Holy Spirit) breaks the governing power or dominion of sin, but it does not completely eradicate the presence of remaining sin (indwelling corruption or concupiscence) in this life.

The gospel of continued lust and sin with partial repentance, is not the gospel of Jesus Christ with whole-hearted repentance.

When we repent of all our sins and trespasses, and not only in part, then the Lamb of God takes away the lust of the world, and our sins are destroyed and done no more.

Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sinning of the world.

1Jo 3:5
And we know that he was manifested to take away our sinning; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him is not sinning: whosoever is sinning hath not seen him, neither known him.

2 Peter 1:3
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

Because sin remains, believers experience a lifelong internal war against remaining corruption. This ongoing struggle requires the daily grace of repentance and the active work of mortification (putting sin to death).

Becasuse lust remains, unbelievers continue to transgress daily. As well as believers in an unrighteous Christ, that does not take away lust and sin, but only adds more daily:

Rom 16:18
For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

While a regenerated people stumble and commit individual acts of sin, we do not continue in a state of unbroken, unrepentant mastery to sin.

While unregenerated self-refomr people stumble and commit individual acts of sin, they continue in a state of unbroken, unrepented mastery by sin.

As explored in explanations of texts like 1 John 3, a true believer does not make a "practice" or habitual lifestyle of sin.

As stated in Scripture, believers in Jesus Christ are doing good, and not committing sin of the devil.

Complete freedom from the presence and capability of sin only occurs at physical death.

1 Thess{5:22}
Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Complete freedom from doing evil only occurs in the newbirth of God by Jesus Christ. Complete freedom from temptations in the natural body only occurs in bodily resurrection like Jesus Christ.

There is no repentance granted by God in the grave.

The unclean lusting souls resurrect unto shame. The hearts purified by the Lamb resurrect unto life.

1 Peter 1:21
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

2Ti 2:22
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

Jde 1:24
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

We preach the pure gospel and religion of Jesus Christ according to the Scripture. We do not accept the sinners' gospel and religion of daily sinful living.

2 Cor 7:10
For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of:

Jas 1:27
Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

Once we have repented of all our sins and trespasses, without salvation and deliverance from transgressions, we do not repent of our daily godly living, in order to return to a sinful religion of the partially repented and unrepented.

 

[ATG]

I have no idea why you made reference to Matthew 23:29 since I'm not a Scribe, or Pharisee or Hypocrite.

If we say we have no guilt for the death of Jesus Christ, then we say the same as them, who say they had no guilt for the death of the prophets.

Scripture concludes that we all have sinned against Christ, and we all are guilty of His shed innocent blood. If we have been in His day, we also would have forsaken Him for a murderer Barabas.

I do not accept guilt for my own transgressions, because Jesus took my guilt onto Himself and imputed His righteousness to me.

Act 7:51
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

No man takes Jesus' righteousness by unjustly condemning and crucifying Him.

I rejoice in the knowledge that I'm not going to be condemned for my past, present or future sins.

Ps 12:3
The LORD shall cut off all flattering lips, and the tongue that speaketh proud things: Who have said, With our tongue will we prevail; our words are our own: who is lord over us?

Pro 2:14
Who rejoice to do evil, and delight in the frowardness of the wicked;

1Th 5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

The saints rejoice in the knowledge of doing God's righteousness.

Psa 106:3
Blessed are they that keep judgment, and he that doeth righteousness at all times.

God placed my legal guilt and penalty onto Jesus, Christ has already suffered the punishment that I deserve. Jesus did not become a sinner personally, but His account was charged with my sin,

God does not punish the innocent with the guilty. Nor do the guilty have part with the innocent.

Only the sinner is guilty of sin and is punished for his own sin.

Deu 24:16
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

The righteous suffering for sins of the wicked, is not guilty of their wickedness. The wicked that slay the innocent have wicked hands.

Act 2:23
Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

God credits Christ's perfect obedience and holiness to my account.

The disobedient are not obedient nor holy to God.

I am legally declared righteous before God the Judge rather than made morally perfect all at once.

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

1 Peter 1:21
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Rom 10:16
But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report…For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar;

This transfer works because I share a spiritual union with Christ, making the exchange just and complete.

This transfer of guilt to the righteous, and innocense to the guilty by killing the righteous, only works in the spiritual darkness of a false Christ, making the exchange completely unjust and delusional.

Mat 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!

Rev 2:24
But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, that they speak;

 

[maxwel]

"False teaching by separating Scripture from Scripture"​

I think separating scripture from scripture is, or is not, a problem, depending on what you mean by "separating."

A.) if you mean removing a verse from it's direct context, or from it's harmonization with other relevant passages... then that's a problem.
B.) If you mean something else, like discussing some distinct peculiarities it has due to human authorship, or some peculiar words or grammar, or historical context... then I think it's fine to separate a verse from other verses in whatever way is natural to the text.

Humans never have problems understanding the context, or literal meaning, or metaphorical meaning, of ordinary speech.
But when it comes to the Bible, suddenly everyone has a meltdown.
: )

 

[ATG]

You might want to reconsider what you stated about = "Jesus being made a sinner for us to crucify Him unjustly.".

But in the second paragraph, you stated that "Jesus Christ the righteous was not a sinner." You can't have it both ways, He either was a sinner or He wasn't

There's a difference between being made guilty by men, vs being made guilty by God. There's a difference between being judged guilty by men, which can be unjust and false, vs being judged guilty by God, which is already just and true.

By commandment of the Father, the Son allowed Himself to be judged and condemned by unjust men. He was not judged and condemend by the righteous Father.

Isaiah{50:5}
The Lord GOD hath opened mine ear, and I was not rebellious, neither turned away back. I gave my back to the smiters, and my cheeks to them that plucked off the hair: I hid not my face from shame and spitting.

Isa 53:7
He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth.
None believed Jesus was the Son of God on the cross, because He neither defended Himself, nor accused His oppressors of being unjust, nor called upon the angels nor the Father to save Him, and smite His persecuted.

A righteous man might die unjustly accused, but no righteous man offers no defence before his accusers.

By commandment of the Father, the Son made Himself to be condemned as a sinner before the unjust, that by unlawfully slaying Him, all might become guilty of His innocent shed blood.

All that sin must be made guilty at the cross, that we might repent of our own wicked sins against Him, as being the wicked hands that slew Him.

Rom 7:13
Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

All that sin, must be made to be sinners indeed, even against God and His Son, else sin is not sinful enough to repent of.

If we count not ourselves guilty of Jesus' death on the cross by our own sin against Him, then we count not our own sins sinful indeed, and ourselves righteous with no need of repentance for Jesus' sake.

Mark 2;17
When Jesus heard it, he saith unto them, They that are whole have no need of the physician, but they that are sick: I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Journey_man said:
Believers are not guilty for the death of His Son.
I rejoice in the knowledge that I'm not going to be condemned for my past, present or future sins.

Matth 12:37
For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned…for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.