First Thread: ☕🙂👍📖 Should the Bible Be the Text Book?

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HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
5,125
2,348
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#1
I attended an Evangelical mega church for a good while. There also happened to be folks leading who were from various backgrounds.
I noticed that there were many more opinions on the tools for ministry. They included software, daily devotional books and various guides. Pastors might want consistency and proper doctrine by establishing his own preference. I see a place for various media tools, but with that was a tendency to substitute the devotionals for the raw Word of God. I have a pattern that works for me and that's the Bible daily with insight from the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps there are many opinions on this. Mine is to encourage believers to establish a lifelong routine for daily Bible reading.
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
8,979
2,141
113
#2
I think it's best to teach directly from the Bible... skipping over things like guides and devotionals.


But doing your own study and creating your own lessons is a lot of hard work, and it might be difficult for a church to do, especially for every class:

1.) TRAINED EXPOSITERS: A church might not have enough people really well trained in theology, hermeneutics, exegesis etc.. It takes a lot of training to do thorough teaching, and to remain doctrinally sound.
2.) TIME: It takes a lot of work and study to create your own teaching materials, a lot of time. This is especially hard for a lot of volunteer staff.
3.) SAME PAGE: Some pastors want to keep everyone "on the same page"... going over the same verses or themes. So this is easier by using guides.

Since children's ministries often rely on a lot of volunteer teachers with limited training and limited time, a lot of guides and curriculum are available for children. Some of it's pretty good... some of it's awful.
 

I_am_Canadian

Senior Member
Dec 8, 2014
1,844
568
113
#3
You know guys, I have tried applying for pastoral jobs, mostly because I see a need for improvement in churches. I have applied to bible colleges and been rejected because I dont have the qualifications they want.

It is discouraging, but I found a place online to obtain my ministers license. What I would like to do is find a job to persue the bachelor of ministry training my former pastor recommended through correspondence.

That course is about $80 to $100.00 Canadian once the fee and currencey exchange and taxes are included. I mean look at some of the heros of the faith. Joseph, he was a kid sold into slavery by his brothers. Went to prison based on false charges and eventually became second in command to Pharoh.

Moses, he wasnt an ellogent speaker, but he was willing to do Gods work and free the slaves from Egypt even though he killed a man and became a fugitive on the run.

King david, was a child when his ministry started, he killed the lion, the bear, then he killed Goliath in defence of his country. Eventually grew up to become a king.

I have a few good tools for studying, the Sword of the Lord software, a Strongs Greek and Hebrew referance book, I also have a membership at Christianbook.com, but ultimately the qualifications are for God to decide. Many are called but few are chose. It doesnt say anything about bible college or doctor of theology. It says to study to shew thyself approved, a workman who needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth. GIve attendance to doctrine, Ultimately its the pastors job to educate his flock. I would even argue that education is the churches jurisdiction and not the governments.

IF your in Canada we also have the Christian Heritage Party of Canada, which is devoted to defending Canadas biblical foundation. as well as the Canadian Christian Business Federation for Christian business owners.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
5,125
2,348
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#4
You know guys, I have tried applying for pastoral jobs, mostly because I see a need for improvement in churches. I have applied to bible colleges and been rejected because I dont have the qualifications they want.

It is discouraging, but I found a place online to obtain my ministers license. What I would like to do is find a job to persue the bachelor of ministry training my former pastor recommended through correspondence.

That course is about $80 to $100.00 Canadian once the fee and currencey exchange and taxes are included. I mean look at some of the heros of the faith. Joseph, he was a kid sold into slavery by his brothers. Went to prison based on false charges and eventually became second in command to Pharoh.

Moses, he wasnt an ellogent speaker, but he was willing to do Gods work and free the slaves from Egypt even though he killed a man and became a fugitive on the run.

King david, was a child when his ministry started, he killed the lion, the bear, then he killed Goliath in defence of his country. Eventually grew up to become a king.

I have a few good tools for studying, the Sword of the Lord software, a Strongs Greek and Hebrew referance book, I also have a membership at Christianbook.com, but ultimately the qualifications are for God to decide. Many are called but few are chose. It doesnt say anything about bible college or doctor of theology. It says to study to shew thyself approved, a workman who needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth. GIve attendance to doctrine, Ultimately its the pastors job to educate his flock. I would even argue that education is the churches jurisdiction and not the governments.

IF your in Canada we also have the Christian Heritage Party of Canada, which is devoted to defending Canadas biblical foundation. as well as the Canadian Christian Business Federation for Christian business owners.
I would have some good questions written out and as many meetings with your pastor about this desire to be in ministry full time as you need to. You might get half a dozen opinions from so many pastors, but if you plan to continue serving in a like minded church, that would be where I'd start if I were you.

I don't agree with the following link 100% , but have shared this basic view of Bible colleges and seminaries. I turned down a full scholarship to the masters program at a large Bible college of like faith. Instead I used that time building a business and separate ministry. In hind site, a large Bible college of like faith was one option to find a quality woman to marry. The pastors and the parents who raised their children in Christian schools usually sent them to Bible college upon graduation. That leaves very few decent eligible single women in the average church like mine. I don't know your situation or needs, but that was a window of opportunity that was available. Here's a sermon that you may agree with.

Bible Colleges

BTW, I did graduate from a Bible college with a full 4 year BA Degree. It was Biblically based and taught by reputable pastors within driving distance. It was small, doctrinally sound . We were involved in church planting in our part of the country and application of the NT Great Commission. I had a pastor or two want me to date their daughters and families in the church too in spite of the exodus to the favored colleges. The one pastor's daughter that I wanted because I knew her for years, unfortunately got a job at a Christian camp and ended up pregnant by a staff member. There were other young ladies, who for various reasons, I had to turn down, but I am very happy single. I see no reason why the same would not be true married, but I only look at the big colleges as a place to possibly find a decent wife. However, it is hard work to work full time, take college classes, spend a day/ week in ministries, and costs a fortune for THAT dating site. It's really hard to find time and no guarantees. There are likewise no guarantees of placement in a full time church ministry with a certification or degree.
 

I_am_Canadian

Senior Member
Dec 8, 2014
1,844
568
113
#5
I would have some good questions written out and as many meetings with your pastor about this desire to be in ministry full time as you need to. You might get half a dozen opinions from so many pastors, but if you plan to continue serving in a like minded church, that would be where I'd start if I were you.

I don't agree with the following link 100% , but have shared this basic view of Bible colleges and seminaries. I turned down a full scholarship to the masters program at a large Bible college of like faith. Instead I used that time building a business and separate ministry. In hind site, a large Bible college of like faith was one option to find a quality woman to marry. The pastors and the parents who raised their children in Christian schools usually sent them to Bible college upon graduation. That leaves very few decent eligible single women in the average church like mine. I don't know your situation or needs, but that was a window of opportunity that was available. Here's a sermon that you may agree with.

Bible Colleges

BTW, I did graduate from a Bible college with a full 4 year BA Degree. It was Biblically based and taught by reputable pastors within driving distance. It was small, doctrinally sound . We were involved in church planting in our part of the country and application of the NT Great Commission. I had a pastor or two want me to date their daughters and families in the church too in spite of the exodus to the favored colleges. The one pastor's daughter that I wanted because I knew her for years, unfortunately got a job at a Christian camp and ended up pregnant by a staff member. There were other young ladies, who for various reasons, I had to turn down, but I am very happy single. I see no reason why the same would not be true married, but I only look at the big colleges as a place to possibly find a decent wife. However, it is hard work to work full time, take college classes, spend a day/ week in ministries, and costs a fortune for THAT dating site. It's really hard to find time and no guarantees. There are likewise no guarantees of placement in a full time church ministry with a certification or degree.
I did talk to my pastor years ago, thats why he recommended the correspondence course, but its kinda expensive for a guy on social assistance. of course I am no longer at that church and he is no longer pastoring it.

as for looking for a wife, I am not sure where that one is going, I think I have 2 women interested in me, the first one is an inmate currently incarserated in a womens maximum security prison in tallahasee florida, although, she does not want children as she has 3 already, does not want to get married, does not want to leave her family, we have been writing each other for 4 years. She cant leave Georgia when she makes parole in September.

The other, is a woman on here, who wrote me out of the blue asking if I was in Canada and wanted to hang out, without so much as meeting or a greeting, has no idea how long she will be in the country, has 2 kids already and has left me wondering if it might be some kind of scam. It could be legitimate, but I cant bring myself to that conclusion. I havent heard from her since she asked for a free dating site either.

I really dont know where the wife search is going, or how things are going to play out.... I just know I gotta do my job and take up my cross.

THe inmate wants to stay friends when she gets out and keep in contact, so I am lost as to just what exactly our relationship is outside of being penpals or friends. The other, well I would like to give her the benifit of the doubt until I know for sure if I am right or wrong.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
20,971
11,161
113
#6
I think it's best to teach directly from the Bible... skipping over things like guides and devotionals.
That is in fact the best and safest course of action. At the same time there are several legitimate Bible study tools which should also be used when needed. And which translation should be used is a critical issue. Modern bible versions have all been corrupted.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
10,906
8,168
113
#7
I attended an Evangelical mega church for a good while. There also happened to be folks leading who were from various backgrounds.
I noticed that there were many more opinions on the tools for ministry. They included software, daily devotional books and various guides. Pastors might want consistency and proper doctrine by establishing his own preference. I see a place for various media tools, but with that was a tendency to substitute the devotionals for the raw Word of God. I have a pattern that works for me and that's the Bible daily with insight from the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps there are many opinions on this. Mine is to encourage believers to establish a lifelong routine for daily Bible reading.
Amen, Brother.
Every Sunday many are force-fed predigested denominationally tainted material and the Scriptures are used merely to reinforce denominational distinctive. It is so frustrating for me to have to read prefabricated commentary from the Sunday-Schooler rather than going straight to the Word and coming straight from the Word. I understand that some may sense no leading or understanding from the Spirit. I understand that guardrails are necessary to curb some from deviating from the truth, but commentary should always be secondary, not primary.

Be-Berean is a wise motto for both young and old, scholar and novice alike. Always check that things line up with the Bible.
 

Seeker47

Well-known member
Aug 7, 2018
798
724
93
#8
The important issue for me is to teach the WHOLE Bible, not just the parts that support doctrine. I find very little of that happening today and it frightens me.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
5,125
2,348
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#9
I did talk to my pastor years ago, thats why he recommended the correspondence course, but its kinda expensive for a guy on social assistance. of course I am no longer at that church and he is no longer pastoring it.

as for looking for a wife, I am not sure where that one is going, I think I have 2 women interested in me, the first one is an inmate currently incarserated in a womens maximum security prison in tallahasee florida, although, she does not want children as she has 3 already, does not want to get married, does not want to leave her family, we have been writing each other for 4 years. She cant leave Georgia when she makes parole in September.

The other, is a woman on here, who wrote me out of the blue asking if I was in Canada and wanted to hang out, without so much as meeting or a greeting, has no idea how long she will be in the country, has 2 kids already and has left me wondering if it might be some kind of scam. It could be legitimate, but I cant bring myself to that conclusion. I havent heard from her since she asked for a free dating site either.

I really dont know where the wife search is going, or how things are going to play out.... I just know I gotta do my job and take up my cross.

THe inmate wants to stay friends when she gets out and keep in contact, so I am lost as to just what exactly our relationship is outside of being penpals or friends. The other, well I would like to give her the benifit of the doubt until I know for sure if I am right or wrong.
I was just commenting on Bible college with my 2¢ after investing 4 years in one and getting a perspective from others. It's a big subject, so I posted the link that gets into a lot more detail. One thing that came to mind was a possibility that you might have aspirations of pastoring. That's a good desire. There were a couple lists of requirements that I have been reminded of as a single guy in church planting and evangelism. If I ever wanted to pastor a church congregation, I would have to get married and raise children.
I would raise children according to the word, but haven't had any yet. I am content to expand my ministry, but am not required to do the following as long as I don't seek the office of pastor / bishop.
It sounds like perhaps that is you too.

"For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly."
Titus 1:6

"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A.bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil."
I Timothy 3:1...
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
5,125
2,348
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#10
You know guys, I have tried applying for pastoral jobs, mostly because I see a need for improvement in churches. I have applied to bible colleges and been rejected because I dont have the qualifications they want.

It is discouraging, but I found a place online to obtain my ministers license. What I would like to do is find a job to persue the bachelor of ministry training my former pastor recommended through correspondence.

That course is about $80 to $100.00 Canadian once the fee and currencey exchange and taxes are included. I mean look at some of the heros of the faith. Joseph, he was a kid sold into slavery by his brothers. Went to prison based on false charges and eventually became second in command to Pharoh.

Moses, he wasnt an ellogent speaker, but he was willing to do Gods work and free the slaves from Egypt even though he killed a man and became a fugitive on the run.

King david, was a child when his ministry started, he killed the lion, the bear, then he killed Goliath in defence of his country. Eventually grew up to become a king.

I have a few good tools for studying, the Sword of the Lord software, a Strongs Greek and Hebrew referance book, I also have a membership at Christianbook.com, but ultimately the qualifications are for God to decide. Many are called but few are chose. It doesnt say anything about bible college or doctor of theology. It says to study to shew thyself approved, a workman who needeth not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth. GIve attendance to doctrine, Ultimately its the pastors job to educate his flock. I would even argue that education is the churches jurisdiction and not the governments.

IF your in Canada we also have the Christian Heritage Party of Canada, which is devoted to defending Canadas biblical foundation. as well as the Canadian Christian Business Federation for Christian business owners.
Sorry, I just went back and reread that you already mentioned that you were following your former pastor's instructions. There certainly are benefits to correspondence school. I found that doctrinal statements change with leadership changes. I would closely look at their recent one. I only mentioned that, because I found that some I looked at from friends who attended various colleges did not have the right gospel, but rather a works based one. Even the one that I was offered a scholarship to had changed to reflect the new chancellor.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
5,125
2,348
113
Almost Heaven West Virginia
#11
The important issue for me is to teach the WHOLE Bible, not just the parts that support doctrine. I find very little of that happening today and it frightens me.
Yes, I think that reading the Bible from cover to cover would be such a blessing to all. Even the most judgement filled book of Revelation has a promise of blessings to those who read it.

Revelation 1:3
"Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand."
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
21,455
6,755
113
#12
Im for reading the whole Bible chapter by chapter or book by book

It makes sense that way even for young children. None of this I'll just pick and read or teach whatever verse I like at random stuff.

The Bible is 66 books, its divided into Old and New Testaments. For someone reading it for the first time, they really need to start from the beginning, which is Genesis.

The New Testament, which is four gospels, Acts, and various letters, and Revelation is like eyewitness reports and church bulletins. You also need to explain the context of all the people the letters were written to...who the Corinthians, Ephesisans, Galatians were and why Paul wrote to them.

Dont assume that people already know or have lived in the middle east and are familiar with all the geography of the Bible.
 

Poinsetta

Well-known member
Nov 24, 2018
10,244
5,998
113
33
#13
I attended an Evangelical mega church for a good while. There also happened to be folks leading who were from various backgrounds.
I noticed that there were many more opinions on the tools for ministry. They included software, daily devotional books and various guides. Pastors might want consistency and proper doctrine by establishing his own preference. I see a place for various media tools, but with that was a tendency to substitute the devotionals for the raw Word of God. I have a pattern that works for me and that's the Bible daily with insight from the Holy Spirit.
Perhaps there are many opinions on this. Mine is to encourage believers to establish a lifelong routine for daily Bible reading.

hi you should make a poll in this thread.

my answer is no.
 

Lanolin

Well-known member
Dec 15, 2018
21,455
6,755
113
#14
The reason why those the seeking office of bishops, pastors etc need to already have had a family and married to one wife is because CHILDREN are the ones that need to be taught, not adults. If you cant raise your own children (and know how hard that can be) and set a good example in your own life you cant reasonably be expected to tell other families how to live and raise their children.

maybe you might even have had the experence of family members dying or passing on or squabbling...whatever. But people will be looking for your wisdom on how to navigate life, not what college degree you have. I havent met many pastors who qualify in that sense.

Most pastors families I know have fallen apart.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
10,906
8,168
113
#15
The important issue for me is to teach the WHOLE Bible, not just the parts that support doctrine. I find very little of that happening today and it frightens me.
VERY good point. Every cycle our Sunday School booklets cover the same select chapters and verses. Thankfully our ministers mix it up a little better from the pulpit.
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
10,906
8,168
113
#16
The reason why those the seeking office of bishops, pastors etc need to already have had a family and married to one wife is because CHILDREN are the ones that need to be taught, not adults. If you cant raise your own children (and know how hard that can be) and set a good example in your own life you cant reasonably be expected to tell other families how to live and raise their children.
Yes. That is why I am not eligible to be nominated in my Church. No hermits allowed into the ministry. :cry:
 

I_am_Canadian

Senior Member
Dec 8, 2014
1,844
568
113
#17
I was just commenting on Bible college with my 2¢ after investing 4 years in one and getting a perspective from others. It's a big subject, so I posted the link that gets into a lot more detail. One thing that came to mind was a possibility that you might have aspirations of pastoring. That's a good desire. There were a couple lists of requirements that I have been reminded of as a single guy in church planting and evangelism. If I ever wanted to pastor a church congregation, I would have to get married and raise children.
I would raise children according to the word, but haven't had any yet. I am content to expand my ministry, but am not required to do the following as long as I don't seek the office of pastor / bishop.
It sounds like perhaps that is you too.

"For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee:6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly."
Titus 1:6

"This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work. A.bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil."
I Timothy 3:1...
Ok, yeah.

I am familiar with 1st. Timothy 3.

I hope God blesses you with a wife and children. Every man should have the blessing of having a Godly family.
 

I_am_Canadian

Senior Member
Dec 8, 2014
1,844
568
113
#18
Sorry, I just went back and reread that you already mentioned that you were following your former pastor's instructions. There certainly are benefits to correspondence school. I found that doctrinal statements change with leadership changes. I would closely look at their recent one. I only mentioned that, because I found that some I looked at from friends who attended various colleges did not have the right gospel, but rather a works based one. Even the one that I was offered a scholarship to had changed to reflect the new chancellor.
It's ok, some posts can be quite lengthy and require rereading. I understand that. With out finances or resources or support, I feel I have gone as far as I can go in life.