Five Foolish Virgins VS Five Wise Virgins

[Mii]

I don't think the popular idea that the oil represents the Holy Spirit holds up.
Yes, anointing oil is symbolic of The Holy Spirit in the right context but this isn't about an anointing.
The wise virgins suggest that the others go to purchase oil from those that sell.

Purchase The Holy Spirit from those that sell?

I've given a good bit of thought about the "oil sellers" and it has been quite the puzzle for me. I considered starting a thread about that but the fact that it has been brought up motivates me to think about it a bit more so I appreciate it.

Idk, I have considered it referring to the Holy Spirit but consider that the 5 wise virgins probably purchased their oil and were simply good stewards of it. Where would the oil have come from? ...Certainly there is a verse or two about purchasing things from the Lord (offhand I recall buying from the Lord in one of the letters to the seven churches. Using Strongs it's Rev 3:18, but the context is only just to that one church but still there is an instance).

I've mostly understood it to mean to only "burn the midnight oil" when there is good Godly purpose to doing so and not just your own pleasure in revelry, etc. That your source isn't your resource to do with whatever you please and to be a good steward and to be safe rather than sorry where possible with regard to that calling.

If I had to boil it down to a few words. Don't be excessive perhaps?

 

[ewq1938]

If I had to boil it down to a few words. Don't be excessive perhaps?

I think, "Be prepared." is the most basic lesson.

Luk 12:35 Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning;
Luk 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
Luk 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
Luk 12:38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

 

[Absolutely]

Ok
I see people getting a little confused over the oil.

Particularly " buying oil".

Factor this in;
Rev 3
16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

Buy gold and white garments.

Jesus is not at all suggesting to buy anything.
Or some gold metal or a literal robe will fix anything at all.

When the foolish were instructed to "Buy", it was ALL they could tell them. They had to have oil.
They were basically going to miss the boat no matter what.

Note in the 7 letters in rev Jesus tells BELIEVERS " i will spew you out of my mouth."

Hypocrites are a stench.

 

[Absolutely]

They all fall asleep but that does not mean they all backslid. It is a parable using a common custom from Jewish weddings that they understood. Was it considered shameful to fall asleep waiting for the call of the Bridegroom? I don't know. But if not then the object lesson is not that anyone fell asleep but that their lights went out and they did not bring extra oil in case that were to happen. The wise ones prepared for the possibility. The foolish thought if that happened they would have time to deal with it. They assumed they could borrow from their neighbor and when that did not work out they were told to go buy some, when they did, it took too long and they were not ready.

It is not an allegory therefore I am not seeing the need to insist on the meaning of the oil. I think the point is that the wise were prepared. They did not assume that they could be irresponsible about their task, (carrying the light in the procession) and figure out a way to fix it at the last minute. How does this apply to us. In all the ways that fall under the category of what it means to live ready for his appearing.

Parables are a story within a story.
That's what they are.
Tons and tons of allegory.

Oil Is used as a type
As is lamp, virgin, groom,

 

[Scribe]

Parables are a story within a story.
That's what they are.
Tons and tons of allegory.

Oil Is used as a type
As is lamp, virgin, groom,

It would benefit every bible student to Google biblical forms of literature parable vs allegory and read some of the more scholarly links that you can find on it. Many do not know the difference between a parable and allegory and think that it does not matter or that they are allowed to make up their own rules about what a parable is in biblical literature. But the definition is clear and agreed upon and taught in every bible college.

In brief a parable will use a common scene from daily life to make a point. Usually the lesson is at the end of the parable. Rarely are the details or objects meant to be an allegory or type of some secret spiritual code not related to the lesson at the end of the parable.

A good example is the parable of the pearl merchant and that of the hidden treasure. Both parables are together but both teach the same lesson. The lesson is that the treasure in the field or the pearl of great price is like the kingdom of heaven in that when one finds it they should do everything necessary to possess it. The pearl or the treasure can be different things but teach the same lesson therefore they are not to be over analyzed.

For example the "treasure" is not even specific enough to analyze. We don't know if it was gold, diamonds, a combination of jewels and coins, etc. It was just something very valuable and we are left to our imagination. The pearl is specific but that it was more valuable than all the other pearls the man had seen before is the point. If one were to go into a long teaching about how pearls are formed and use that to describe the nature of how the Kingdom of heaven was formed he would be missing the point completely and teaching nonsense imaginative ideas.

The pearl, or the treasure simply mean that they were more valuable than anything else and that the merchant selling everything to gain the pearl or the man who sold everything and bought the field was making a wise decision. We should not consider anything worth hanging on to that would hinder us from possessing the kingdom of God and of course that means following Christ.

These are parables not allegories. The same with the parable of the ten virgins. It is a parable that teaches a lesson, and that lesson is to be ready for the coming of the Lord. The same lesson can be taught using different parables with different lessons from life. And Jesus does use different parables to teach the same lesson that is to be learned from the ten virgins. In fact he gives several that all teach the same lesson, that we must watch and be ready because we don't know the hour when he will return.

 

[Blain]

Because the Great Tribulation is the darkest spiritual time the world will ever know.





Besides the darkness the going out and buying is related to what people do in that dark time.

Mat_25:9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

Rev_13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

So the darkness of the night, the buying and selling and the coming of Christ/bridegroom all add up to the timeframe of the Great Tribulation and the second coming. This parable was spoken after about 7 previous examples of what it will be like when Christ returns which started here:

Mat 24:37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

Again, this is comparable to the Great Tribulation and the wrath of God that is about to happen which happens at the second coming.
.


Mat 24:39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Mat 24:40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Mat 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
Mat 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Mat 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Mat 24:45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Mat 24:46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Mat 24:47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
Mat 24:48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
Mat 24:49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Rev_3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.

Rev_16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

1Th_5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th_5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

Ok I think your see your point and it is also spoken of in revelation 19:6-9 but this is also near the end of revlation so it would make sense that it would happen during or near the end of the tribulation.
I suppose the only issue that might arise is the issue of the rapture itself, I suppose it can easily be seen as the rapture and many might believe it is speaking of before the tribulation as well as in it or at the end however this is not how weddings work.
The rapture is not simply a taking to heaven out of this world it is a replay of how weddings work the bride waits for the bridegroom in a place of holding unable to reveal her face until the actual wedding.
The bridegroom also only shows up at a random time she knows not of his choosing so she is anxiously waiting in that holding place until he arrives it also was not uncommon to have more than one wife and they also had to be virgins

Personally if I was to take into my account my personal beleif of a pretrib rapture I would liken the holding place as Abrahams bossom the place of holding and refuge until the bridegroom comes however if say we are to go through the tribulation I also believe we will be in refuge and protection perhaps not in that place of holding rather his protection over his beloved even in the darkest time in history.

Honestly regardless when the rapture is I intend to be in the tribulation so eaither way I am going to ask him to allow me to serve in this time but many will be looking for a certain time to watch for be that pre mid or post the issue is that he specifically warns us to be ever watchful because we won't know the day or hour so lets say a pretrib believer is waiting and watching for him but he doesn't come and the tribulation begins how will they feel and think when this happens? lets say also that a mid or post believer is expecting it to happen according to the time of their beliefs but he comes as a theif steals his bride and they miss out and go through the tribulation?

Honestly I find it wise to be flexible and understand that no matter how strongly we may hold to our own beleifs if we blind ourselves to any other possibility we also blind ourselves to the truth and witrh so much confusion diversity separation of doctrines and views and everyone thinking they are right and the others are wrong I think it is best to just be prepared for any outcome lest we be caught unaware and unprepared.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

A good example is the parable of the pearl merchant and that of the hidden treasure. Both parables are together but both teach the same lesson. The lesson is that the treasure in the field or the pearl of great price is like the kingdom of heaven in that when one finds it they should do everything necessary to possess it. The pearl or the treasure can be different things but teach the same lesson therefore they are not to be over analyzed.

Hmm, gotta disagree here, in that, I believe Jesus Himself is the "man" in these texts [in these two parables], not us.

(Matt13:44, 45-46)

 

[Scribe]

Hmm, gotta disagree here, in that, I believe Jesus Himself is the "man" in these texts [in these two parables], not us.

(Matt13:44, 45-46)

The context says that they were about the kingdom of heaven.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

The context says that they were about the kingdom of heaven.

Sure, the context is concerning "the kingdom of the heavens"... but Jesus is the "man" who "selleth all / buyeth" and "sold all / bought" (not us... "we" are not the "man" in these contexts).



[for the readers: "the kingdom of the heavens" is earthly-located... it does not refer to "UP IN Heaven"]

 

[Scribe]

Sure, the context is concerning "the kingdom of the heavens"... but Jesus is the "man" who "selleth all / buyeth" and "sold all / bought" (not us... "we" are not the "man" in these contexts).



[for the readers: "the kingdom of the heavens" is earthly-located... it does not refer to "UP IN Heaven"]

The lesson is not that we are all pearl merchants. It is not that we are all Treasure hunters. Neither is it that Jesus is a pearl merchant.
The lesson is having the wisdom and appreciation of the value of the kingdom of heaven and seeking it First!
A valuable lesson of pure doctrine. Unless we have this same heart we don't have saving faith.

 

[ewq1938]

lets say also that a mid or post believer is expecting it to happen according to the time of their beliefs but he comes as a theif steals his bride and they miss out and go through the tribulation?

No one can miss the rapture whom God intends to rapture.

 

[Absolutely]

It would benefit every bible student to Google biblical forms of literature parable vs allegory and read some of the more scholarly links that you can find on it. Many do not know the difference between a parable and allegory and think that it does not matter or that they are allowed to make up their own rules about what a parable is in biblical literature. But the definition is clear and agreed upon and taught in every bible college.

In brief a parable will use a common scene from daily life to make a point. Usually the lesson is at the end of the parable. Rarely are the details or objects meant to be an allegory or type of some secret spiritual code not related to the lesson at the end of the parable.

A good example is the parable of the pearl merchant and that of the hidden treasure. Both parables are together but both teach the same lesson. The lesson is that the treasure in the field or the pearl of great price is like the kingdom of heaven in that when one finds it they should do everything necessary to possess it. The pearl or the treasure can be different things but teach the same lesson therefore they are not to be over analyzed.

For example the "treasure" is not even specific enough to analyze. We don't know if it was gold, diamonds, a combination of jewels and coins, etc. It was just something very valuable and we are left to our imagination. The pearl is specific but that it was more valuable than all the other pearls the man had seen before is the point. If one were to go into a long teaching about how pearls are formed and use that to describe the nature of how the Kingdom of heaven was formed he would be missing the point completely and teaching nonsense imaginative ideas.

The pearl, or the treasure simply mean that they were more valuable than anything else and that the merchant selling everything to gain the pearl or the man who sold everything and bought the field was making a wise decision. We should not consider anything worth hanging on to that would hinder us from possessing the kingdom of God and of course that means following Christ.

These are parables not allegories. The same with the parable of the ten virgins. It is a parable that teaches a lesson, and that lesson is to be ready for the coming of the Lord. The same lesson can be taught using different parables with different lessons from life. And Jesus does use different parables to teach the same lesson that is to be learned from the ten virgins. In fact he gives several that all teach the same lesson, that we must watch and be ready because we don't know the hour when he will return.

Lol
" wheat"
"Tares"
" virgins"
"Oil"
" talent"
"Pearl"

You got to be kidding me.
You saying you DO NOT KNOW WHAT A PARABLE IS????


""Allegory, a symbolic fictional narrative that conveys a meaning not explicitly set forth in the narrative. Allegory, which encompasses such forms as fable, parable, and apologue, may have meaning on two or more levels that the reader can understand only through an interpretive process.""

 

[Absolutely]

No one can miss the rapture whom God intends to rapture.

then the parable of the virgins has no warning or meaning.

 

[Evmur]

What is your take of Matthew 25:1-13 -
Mine is this, The Five Foolish Virgins are those living after the flesh and dying (Rom 8:13a) -
The Five Wise Virgins will put to death the deeds of the body and live (Rom 8:13b).

They are all bridal attendants

... we's the bride we get in

 

[Scribe]

Lol
" wheat"
"Tares"
" virgins"
"Oil"
" talent"
"Pearl"

You got to be kidding me.
You saying you DO NOT KNOW WHAT A PARABLE IS????


""Allegory, a symbolic fictional narrative that conveys a meaning not explicitly set forth in the narrative. Allegory, which encompasses such forms as fable, parable, and apologue, may have meaning on two or more levels that the reader can understand only through an interpretive process.""

You can get a definition from a dictionary but the idea of literature types in the bible are defined within the cultural setting in which they occurred. It was not uncommon in Jesus day to use a parable as an object lesson. People knew to look for the "punch line" or the play on words, similar like how one "gets" a joke that is told. Defining the difference between an allegory in biblical literature and a parable in biblical literature is specific to the time and how they were used to convey understanding. There is a difference. For example, the one in charge of the house that begins to beat the servants instead of giving them meat in due season. They are found failing in their responsibilities when the Lord comes back, One could make a point about the fact that they should have been teaching the word (meat) and I suppose that it does not take away from the lesson but the lesson is not to fall into sin and not be ready when the Lord comes back. Same with the ten virgins. Be ready. Don't think you can get ready at the last minute. Some will be thinking they have this ten virgin parable all figured out as it relates to the timing of the rapture and wedding supper and they won't be ready because they are filled with anger and rage toward their wife and yelling at her behind closed doors.

 

[Absolutely]

The lesson is not that we are all pearl merchants. It is not that we are all Treasure hunters. Neither is it that Jesus is a pearl merchant.
The lesson is having the wisdom and appreciation of the value of the kingdom of heaven and seeking it First!
A valuable lesson of pure doctrine. Unless we have this same heart we don't have saving faith.

Lol. You just INTERPRETED ALLEGORY....face palm
you painted yourself in a corner with your strain to redefine allegories .

You are so off friend.

" more scholarly studies"

Show me these great "scholars" that say a parable is neither a story withing a story, and there is no such thing as allegory in parables.

 

[Absolutely]

""Defining the difference between an allegory in biblical literature and a parable in biblical literature is specific to the time and how they were used to convey understanding""

In the wheat and tares Jesus defined WHAT THE ALLEGORY means.
Jesus Specifically lays out the interpretation....of the allegory/ story/parable

 

[Scribe]

Lol. You just INTERPRETED ALLEGORY....face palm
you painted yourself in a corner with your strain to redefine allegories .

You are so off friend.

" more scholarly studies"

Show me these great "scholars" that say a parable is neither a story withing a story, and there is no such thing as allegory in parables.

Here is an example of allegory in biblical literature:
Paul uses the story of Sarah and Hagar as an allegory of the Law and the new covenant.

21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


As you can see quite different than a parable. A parable is an illustration from daily life or familiar custom to teach a lesson (usually a moral lesson)

Then there are metaphors and similes within literature such as calling Jerusalem Sodom (a metaphor) or the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant man (simile)

In parables it is rarely necessary to decode every detail in the parable as though it were a metaphor of a spiritual object. Like in the parable of the prodigal son. It was specifically taught to show the pharisees that they had the wrong attitude toward sinners and publicans coming to Jesus. Why was the elder brother in the field? Because Jesus put him there. Was he harvesting wheat? Who cares, it is not relative to the object lesson which is that he should have rejoiced with the Father when his brother repented but the pharisees did not see that they were like the elder brother when they found fault with the prodigal being celebrated for returning. The pig pen is not an allegory of a backslidden christian at the bar or some such other allegory one can dream up. The story is not about a backslidden christian. Most christians would rejoice if their brother repented from backslidding. It is a story to expose the heart of the pharisees, so if anything the prodigal is a publican and sinner who came to Jesus.

 

[Scribe]

""Defining the difference between an allegory in biblical literature and a parable in biblical literature is specific to the time and how they were used to convey understanding""

In the wheat and tares Jesus defined WHAT THE ALLEGORY means.
Jesus Specifically lays out the interpretation....of the allegory/ story/parable

You are using the terminology incorrectly. Those are metaphors in the parable. When the words "like as" is used it is a simile.

 

[Absolutely]

Here is an example of allegory in biblical literature:
Paul uses the story of Sarah and Hagar as an allegory of the Law and the new covenant.

21Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


As you can see quite different than a parable. A parable is an illustration from daily life or familiar custom to teach a lesson (usually a moral lesson)

Then there are metaphors and similes within literature such as calling Jerusalem Sodom (a metaphor) or the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant man (simile)

In parables it is rarely necessary to decode every detail in the parable as though it were a metaphor of a spiritual object. Like in the parable of the prodigal son. It was specifically taught to show the pharisees that they had the wrong attitude toward sinners and publicans coming to Jesus. Why was the elder brother in the field? Because Jesus put him there. Was he harvesting wheat? Who cares, it is not relative to the object lesson which is that he should have rejoiced with the Father when his brother repented but the pharisees did not see that they were like the elder brother when they found fault with the prodigal being celebrated for returning. The pig pen is not an allegory of a backslidden christian at the bar or some such other allegory one can dream up. The story is not about a backslidden christian. Most christians would rejoice if their brother repented from backslidding. It is a story to expose the heart of the pharisees, so if anything the prodigal is a publican and sinner who came to Jesus.

Lol
The produgal CAME BACK TO HIS ORIGINAL POSITION.

HE WAS RESTORED not reborn.

Re read it.

He ORIGINATED in family
He RETURNED to family.

It is IRREFUTABLY ,A story about a backslider. Without a doubt you got it 180 degrees off

Jesus CLEARLY said to those religious players " you are of your father the devil"

The prodigal parable has the OPPOSITE dynamic.