Following the Pastor

[BrightRiver]

I've been thinking about your situation; here's what I'd do. If you feel the ministry you're doing there is important—important enough to stick with it—then bite the bullet and carry on without grumbling or complaining. Otherwise, get out and find another group.

This is the way we have been going so far. we love the work we do, seeing the ministry we are involved with grow and flourish. we started running extra events for the children's and youth work which have been successful, it's the only thing really keeping us there.

but there is a limit to how much we can take.

it feels like we are fast approaching a crossroads in which a very difficult decision will have to be made
I just hope that God will give us the wisdom to make the right decision

 

[Edify]

This is the way we have been going so far. we love the work we do, seeing the ministry we are involved with grow and flourish. we started running extra events for the children's and youth work which have been successful, it's the only thing really keeping us there.

but there is a limit to how much we can take.

it feels like we are fast approaching a crossroads in which a very difficult decision will have to be made
I just hope that God will give us the wisdom to make the right decision

Is there any way you can start a separate ministry that does the same things outside of this church?
Or, could it be time to finish this ministry & go independantly with another?
Something to think about.

 

[BrightRiver]

Is there any way you can start a separate ministry that does the same things outside of this church?
Or, could it be time to finish this ministry & go independantly with another?
Something to think about.

I am actually looking at starting my own "ministry" of sorts.
producing resources for children's and youth workers in churches, they will be accessible online for free with physical copies for sale (to cover costs)

but in terms of starting children's and youth ministry in person outside of the church I am not sure how comfortable I would feel.

I have seen a few independent ministries in the area around me, the issue I tend to have is the lack of oversight.
they can be great but without the oversight of a church there is a danger of them running astray.

 

[hornetguy]

You know you just described every cult out there.

and your snarky behavior in this post fits every quality of being a troll.... so, are we both accurate in our evaluation, or are you simply being a jerk just to be a jerk?

You were asked a pretty simple, straightforward question, and you immediately started playing word games.... that doesn't look good on you, brother.

We all have "off" days.... hopefully this is just one of yours.

 

[ResidentAlien]

and your snarky behavior in this post fits every quality of being a troll.... so, are we both accurate in our evaluation, or are you simply being a jerk just to be a jerk?

You were asked a pretty simple, straightforward question, and you immediately started playing word games.... that doesn't look good on you, brother.

We all have "off" days.... hopefully this is just one of yours.

LOL, so now asking for clarification is playing word games?

 

[cv5]

One of their main tricks is to not make you turn away from God. But to make you lukewarm. I've never been a church goer apart from being forced to go as a young child. Even I knew that the Church my mom was making us go to was not the real gospel.
At that time my younger sister had a friend and her mother was a real Christian. She never went to church and I remember asking her why she never did, and she said God called her out.

Those are some good insights. You have pointed out "a" if not THE worst problem and oh so common.
In fact I do believe this lassitude is not accident. A message that is not easily digestible and fashionable will empty the pews rapidly.

Churches around here are hopeless if not outright apostate and bogus I'm afraid. I could never attend, due to vexation of the soul at what I am seeing and hearing AND WHAT I AM NOT seeing and hearing.

Very bad news. But a sign of the times.

 

[cv5]

being a pastor doesn't make a person an electrician or a cook or an engineer or a doctor or anything else.

it doesn't even make a person a good teacher - pastoring isn't the same thing as teaching. it doesn't mean they are necessarily wiser or more holy; it means they are good at 'shepherding'

there's a reason we are a body, each having different strengths and weaknesses. Any good leader should understand when to find & hear experts to make decisions.

That being said, pastors should be expert in the Scriptures. An ongoing process.
Without a thorough understanding of the instruction manual, and packing the gear to work with compass, maps and charts the congregation will end up with a mechanical breakdown or shipwrecked on the shoals rocks and weeds. Or stuck in the horse latitudes in the sargasso sea going absolutely nowhere.

I have heard pastors (so-called) who had no idea of what they were doing or talking about. Literally Biblically illiterate.
This one new junior trainee pastor invited to speak was frankly uttering unintelligible gibberish bafflegab in terms of a lecture. It was very painful to be in the same room believe me. Supposedly this person is now pastoring a Church where they requested his services.

Amazing. Sort of. But not really.

 

[cv5]

That being said, pastors should be expert in the Scriptures. An ongoing process.
Without a thorough understanding of the instruction manual, and packing the gear to work with compass, maps and charts the congregation will end up with a mechanical breakdown or shipwrecked on the shoals rocks and weeds. Or stuck in the horse latitudes in the sargasso sea going absolutely nowhere.

I have heard pastors (so-called) who had no idea of what they were doing or talking about. Literally Biblically illiterate.
This one new junior trainee pastor invited to speak was frankly uttering unintelligible gibberish bafflegab in terms of a lecture. It was very painful to be in the same room believe me. Supposedly this person is now pastoring a Church where they requested his services.

Amazing. Sort of. But not really.

Oh....and BTW, this trainee pastor was second banana to the senior pastor (at the Church I formerly attended for over a year) whom I was convinced was not even saved. As in NOT a believer, and DID NOT understand that the Bible is indeed the Living Word God breathed. Evidently they were just "faking it".

Yep. He was basically "in the business" due to a "career choice" and his "family background". That was my assessment.
And a similar assessment applies to SEVERAL other so-called pastors around here.

I bailed on them all. Bye bye.

 

[Edify]

Oh....and BTW, this trainee pastor was second banana to the senior pastor (at the Church I formerly attended for over a year) whom I was convinced was not even saved. As in NOT a believer, and DID NOT understand that the Bible is indeed the Living Word God breathed. Evidently they were just "faking it".

Yep. He was basically "in the business" due to a "career choice" and his "family background". That was my assessment.
And a similar assessment applies to SEVERAL other so-called pastors around here.

I bailed on them all. Bye bye.

So you're not going to church either?

 

[posthuman]

That being said, pastors should be expert in the Scriptures. An ongoing process.

honestly every Christian should aspire the same - whether to teach or preach or simply. to grow in the knowledge of God, but especially if one is in a position of leadership like a pastor/teacher instructing others.

His word is our bread, and we need to eat it to be healthy and to grow

 

[cv5]

So you're not going to church either?

Tragically NO.

The good news is that my Bible studies and knowledge have acceleration and my cup is therewith overflowing with the blessings thereof beyond my wildest imaginings. Frankly I am thrilled beyond measure. I got it. The treasure of hidden manna has been found.
Was I saved earlier on? Sure I was. Of this I have no doubt. Was I enjoying my rest and feasting rather than gleaning? No, I was not.

I do not exaggerate.

And IMO......there is no possible way that I would have or could have accomplished the same result stranded in the "sargasso sea Churches" around here. On the contrary, I kept praying, searching, striving until I found what I was looking for.

Like it or not that is my assessment.

 

[Edify]

So, with your training you haven't considered starting a Bible study group or a house church?
Plus, there's also the internet.

 

[tourist]

In the church I attend people seem to follow the pastor as if his word is law. I seem to be the odd one out to think of him as another person who can be wrong and make mistakes.

I just want to ask. am I wrong for not putting him on a pedestal, what level of respect should we have for the pastor of a church

No church congregation should put the pastor on a pedestal. Your estimation is right on target.

 

[tourist]

honestly myself and my wife have talked about walking out so many times. but we are so involved in ministry that we dont feel we can just leave. and there are so few people to take up those ministrys.

even with how much we contribute we are dismissed and disrespected.
it is not about recognition or ego. just a basic level of decency.

It is time to find a new church home that is more scripturally sound.

 

[BrightRiver]

No church congregation should put the pastor on a pedestal. Your estimation is right on target.

Thank you for a simple to the point answer.

 

[tourist]

Thank you for a simple to the point answer.

You're quite welcome.

 

[hornetguy]

LOL, so now asking for clarification is playing word games?

Not always, but I think that is what you were doing in this instance.... hopefully I was wrong.
I provided what I thought was a pretty workable definition of a church, and you gave me a snarky, dismissive answer.... which would lead most people to believe you don't want to answer the original question.
No big deal, but acting like that, then playing "offended" at the response you get makes one wonder.....

Like I said, though.... no big deal.... we can just move along....

 

[ResidentAlien]

I provided what I thought was a pretty workable definition of a church, and you gave me a snarky, dismissive answer.... which would lead most people to believe you don't want to answer the original question.

You still don't get it. You're accusing me of not wanting to answer the original question when all I did was ask for clarification. If I didn't want to answer the question would I ask for clarification?

"He who answers a matter before he hears it, It is folly and shame to him." Proverbs 18:13

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet because I didn't agree with your "workable definition." Rather than consider I may have a valid point you've resorted to making all kinds of unfounded accusations against me. Business as usual around here.

 

[ResidentAlien]

This question is for anyone.

If the only church is the one that gathers in an assembly with others, what happens to those people who are unable to participate in an assembly? The elderly, the shut-ins, the disabled, those living in isolated areas with no way to get to a group. Do all these people suddenly stop being part of the church? If that's the case, then I know a lot of great Christian men and women for whom Christ died who are no longer part of the church.

 

[Cameron143]

This question is for anyone.

If the only church is the one that gathers in an assembly with others, what happens to those people who are unable to participate in an assembly? The elderly, the shut-ins, the disabled, those living in isolated areas with no way to get to a group. Do all these people suddenly stop being part of the church? If that's the case, then I know a lot of great Christian men and women for whom Christ died who are no longer part of the church.

If they belonged to a church previously, members of the church could go to them to provide a facsimile of what they would receive if they were able to attend.