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When God decided which Universe He will create, He foreseen all prayers for salvation in this Universe and took it into consideration.
Do not worry, every detail is in place.
Both.
But I am going to sleep now, I will let you with my non-molinist brothers to answer your questions from their, full-bodied calvinist point of view
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Both.
But I am going to sleep now, I will let you with my non-molinist brothers to answer your questions from their, full-blooded calvinist point of view
predestined mean He decide before
forseen mean He know before,
I do not understand can be both in the same time
Both.
But I am going to sleep now, I will let you with my non-molinist brothers to answer your questions from their, full-bodied calvinist point of view
Good Night
It's a caricature of Reformed theology to claim that they don't evangelize.
Some of the greatest evangelists have been Reformed.
God ordains not only the end (that people would be saved) but also the means (that the evangelist preaches the Gospel to them).
But, some will maintain their caricatures no matter what...why? Because they are intellectually dishonest and/or lazy and/or want to feel good about themselves by comparing themselves to others that they feel aren't as spiritual.
Some of the loudest trumpet-blowers (those who want others to see their works) might be Arminians, though. See the Internet where there are tons of self-produced videos of Arminian/Pelagian street preachers filming their exploits for everyone to see.
But God isn't fooled
Reformed theology is making tremendous progress now in Latin America, and is combatting semi-Pelagianism of all types (Arminian, Roman Catholicism).
Some of the greatest evangelists have been Reformed.
God ordains not only the end (that people would be saved) but also the means (that the evangelist preaches the Gospel to them).
But, some will maintain their caricatures no matter what...why? Because they are intellectually dishonest and/or lazy and/or want to feel good about themselves by comparing themselves to others that they feel aren't as spiritual.
Some of the loudest trumpet-blowers (those who want others to see their works) might be Arminians, though. See the Internet where there are tons of self-produced videos of Arminian/Pelagian street preachers filming their exploits for everyone to see.
But God isn't fooled
Reformed theology is making tremendous progress now in Latin America, and is combatting semi-Pelagianism of all types (Arminian, Roman Catholicism).
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Hmmm, Paul would disagree with your un-biblical non-Christian view.
He sure did; Ephesians 1:4. You don't like that, do you?
First of all we are commanded to evangelize as mentioned above to all the world. The command is not to go out and figure out who the elect are and preach to them. Knowing that there were people chosen by the Lord encouraged Paul, Timothy and Silas to stay in Corinth for anothet year and a half.
Acts 18:9-11 "And the Lord said to Paul one night in a vision, “Do not be afraid, but go on speaking and do not be silent,10 for I am with you, and no one will attack you to harm you, for I have many in this city who are my people.”11 And he stayed a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them."
The Lord did not tell Paul who those His people were, just the knowledge that there were people of God in Corinth caused Paul and his companions to stay longer. The Lord simply tells us the preach the Gospel to everyone, not to the elect alone. The Bible show the knowledge that God has elect people to salvation encouraged people to evangelize, the Bible never shows the doctrine of predertination caused people to stop evangelizing. Which makes me wonder where this idea that predestenation would cause one of the elect of God to stop evangelizing comes from.
Because it is not Biblical, which makes me wonder how and why the elect are letting outside ideas influance them to believe in something that is not Biblical.
Acts 18:9-11 "And the Lord said to Paul one night in a vision, “Do not be afraid, but go on speaking and do not be silent,10 for I am with you, and no one will attack you to harm you, for I have many in this city who are my people.”11 And he stayed a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them."
The Lord did not tell Paul who those His people were, just the knowledge that there were people of God in Corinth caused Paul and his companions to stay longer. The Lord simply tells us the preach the Gospel to everyone, not to the elect alone. The Bible show the knowledge that God has elect people to salvation encouraged people to evangelize, the Bible never shows the doctrine of predertination caused people to stop evangelizing. Which makes me wonder where this idea that predestenation would cause one of the elect of God to stop evangelizing comes from.
Because it is not Biblical, which makes me wonder how and why the elect are letting outside ideas influance them to believe in something that is not Biblical.
your pray not change the status that had been determined before foundation of the earth, why waste time?
Paul disagree may because he believe pray may bring unsave to the Lord.
One cannot take Reformed theology seriously without taking missions/evangelism seriously...
Seriously!
Seriously!
So are all reformed Calvinists? I don't recall Martin Luther following Calvinist theories.It's a caricature of Reformed theology to claim that they don't evangelize.
Some of the greatest evangelists have been Reformed.
God ordains not only the end (that people would be saved) but also the means (that the evangelist preaches the Gospel to them).
But, some will maintain their caricatures no matter what...why? Because they are intellectually dishonest and/or lazy and/or want to feel good about themselves by comparing themselves to others that they feel aren't as spiritual.
Some of the loudest trumpet-blowers (those who want others to see their works) might be Arminians, though. See the Internet where there are tons of self-produced videos of Arminian/Pelagian street preachers filming their exploits for everyone to see.
But God isn't fooled
Reformed theology is making tremendous progress now in Latin America, and is combatting semi-Pelagianism of all types (Arminian, Roman Catholicism).
God knows who will respond to the word of God and who will not. We do not know so we preach to every set of ears we come across.
Calvinist doctrine taken to it's logical extreme removes any necessity for believers to proclaim the gospel. Calvinists forget that they did not just wake up one day and determine they were elect and predestined to be saved. No indeed in fact scripture does not teach anything like election without evangelism.
The sinner must come under conviction of sin, righteousness and judgment before he can see his need of Christ. No man can come to Christ except the Father draw him. He is drawn and saved through the Holy Spirit acting on the word of God in his heart.
John 16:7 ¶ Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
If you have never experienced the Holy Spirit working as Jesus promised He would in John 16 you would cause me to fear greatly for your wellbeing.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Trofimus: one cannot save anybody... Jesus has to change their heart prior to when that happens. All we can do is spread the word. Rem, God has to do the convincing.
Why did you say you are Theologically mixed?
Yes both can.
Without influencing anyone's decision; God knows, even before we are born, how people will respond to what Jesus has done for us. Those who accept Jesus as Savior and Lord, He has predestined to be adopted as His Spiritual children.
He sees into the future like you and I see in the past and knows what is going to happen. Therefore He saw it and Knew it at the Same time!
First of all where did this idea of telling unbelievers that Jesus died for them is how we are supposed to evangelize? When I read the book of Acts I see the apostles and other believers starting their evangelism in the synagogue. Then they would move to other places when they were kicked out of the synagogue and would move to another city when they were chased out of town, what is the point here? By starting in the synagogue, this mean they were using the OT and preaching to those that had that OT foundation. They would show how Christ fulfilled those prophesies of the Savior in the OT and how the offerings were a shadow of Christ's death fulfilled those offerings, as mentioned in Hebrews 8-10, He is the offerings and the High Priest. Then someone or some people would start rumors about them and they would run out of town.
Acts 17:1-4 “Now when they had passed through Amphipolis and Apollonia, they came to Thessalonica, where there was a synagogue of the Jews.2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures3 explaining and demonstrating that the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying, “This Jesus whom I preach to you is the Christ.”4 And some of them were persuaded; and a great multitude of the devout Greeks, and not a few of the leading women, joined Paul and Silas.”
The accusations against them as they did in Acts 17:6-7 “These who have turned the world upside down have come here too. 7 Jason has harbored them, and these are all acting contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying there is another king—Jesus.”
They would leave town and start the same process all over again, Acts 17:10, 12 “Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews......12Therefore many of them believed,...15 So those who conducted Paul brought him to Athens; and receiving a command for Silas and Timothy to come to him with all speed, they departed.”
Once Paul got to Athens he did the same thing as well as going to the market for those that did not go to the synagogues and what was the first thing he dealt with? He called them out on braking the first two commandments.
Exodus 20:3-4 “You shall have no other gods before Me.4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image...”
Acts 17:16-17 “Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols.17 Therefore he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentile worshipers, and in the marketplace daily with those who happened to be there.”
No where do the apostles tell people that the Lord died for them personally, only that He died to fulfill the prophesies of the OT. They dealt with those that already knew the foundation of Christ by showing them that Jesus fulfilled those foundations. For those that did not know the foundations of Christ or the 10 commandments that brings that knowledge of sin Romans 3:19-20.
The idea of telling people that Christ died for them will some how cause them to repent, but if they done npot understand that they have sinned and need to repent from their sins and that Jesus died to pay for those sins, His death will mean nothing to them. One thing that has made evangelize easier since coming to understand the Doctrines of Grace, is that it is not up to me to get somone to pray a sinners pray, when there is no such thng in the Bible. We are only called to preach the Gospel, not to get anyone to pray a pray. We are only called to preach repentance, not called to get them to repent that is where the Holy Spirit does all the work and the Lord opens the hearts of those called to repentance.
Acts 13:48 “Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.”
"They were glad and glorified the word of the Lord." All on their own those that were preaching the word did not ask them to do anything, the Lord opens the hearts as shown in Acts 16:14
“Now a certain woman named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul.”
D
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Guest
Cow dung!
Since it is obvious you just want to lie about everything, start your own thread and have a thrill.
I want to know how people associate love with salvation and where the idea that men have a free will? Let's look at how God loves the world and what was said leading up to John 3:16 and what was said after as well.
John 1:12-13 “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” Here John is saying that salvation is not by the will of man, bt by the will of God.
John 3:3 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Man in his own natural state cannot even see the kingdom of God let alone have an open heart to understand the word of God, the Lord has to cause them to be born again or open their heart like in Acts 16:14.
Once your heart is open to see the kingdom you must be born of water and the Spirit.
John 3:5-8 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Once you've been born again or the Lord has opened your heart to see the kingdom because you've been born of the Spirit. What is the water? It can't be baptism because this happens with the moving of the Spirit on the believers life. Let's look at Ephesians 5:26
"that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word," What else does the word of the Lord say about being born again and the word.
I Peter 1:22-23 "Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,"
Ephesians 1:13 “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,”
The word of truth causes you to believe once your heart has been opened by the Lord or you've been born again to see the kingdom of God. Then you are sealed by the Spirit because you've believed the word of truth or the Gospel of your salvation which means you have been born of water and the Spirit and now can enter the kingdom of God. The Lord opens your heart or cause you to be born again.
I Peter 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,”
John 1:12-13 “But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.” Here John is saying that salvation is not by the will of man, bt by the will of God.
John 3:3 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” Man in his own natural state cannot even see the kingdom of God let alone have an open heart to understand the word of God, the Lord has to cause them to be born again or open their heart like in Acts 16:14.
Once your heart is open to see the kingdom you must be born of water and the Spirit.
John 3:5-8 “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Once you've been born again or the Lord has opened your heart to see the kingdom because you've been born of the Spirit. What is the water? It can't be baptism because this happens with the moving of the Spirit on the believers life. Let's look at Ephesians 5:26
"that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word," What else does the word of the Lord say about being born again and the word.
I Peter 1:22-23 "Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart,23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,"
Ephesians 1:13 “In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,”
The word of truth causes you to believe once your heart has been opened by the Lord or you've been born again to see the kingdom of God. Then you are sealed by the Spirit because you've believed the word of truth or the Gospel of your salvation which means you have been born of water and the Spirit and now can enter the kingdom of God. The Lord opens your heart or cause you to be born again.
I Peter 1:3 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,”