I am not a Jew, so no you are wrong.
Being obedient to the Word of God does not make me legalistic.
True, but judging one another in respect to a cerimoinal law would.
For Sabbath keepers, How does obedience to the Sabbath affect your Salvation?
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True, but judging one another in respect to a cerimoinal law would.
I know what you mean ! When we obey God we please God and He works miracles in us ! We establish a 'loving relationship !
I am not a Jew, so no you are wrong
Being obedient to the Word of God does not make me legalistic.
Do you keep the whole Law of Moses? If not then in your own words you are being dis-obedient to God.
We live in the New Covenant NOT in the Old Covenant. Read the Old Covenant to see Christ in it NOT as rules to keep. That is replacing the life of Christ for the Law of Moses.
Abraham was told by God to slay his son - he could have said "This is the word of God and I am going to be obedient and slay my son". We need to listen to the now word of God and it is Christ Himself - not the Law of Moses.
Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
People are free to observe any days or festivals that they like but when they say "If you don't observe these things in the Law of Moses including the Sabbath keeping" - then you are disobeying God.
This is where the perversion of the gospel comes in.
Paul calls it "deserting Christ" Gal. 1:6 - he calls it "distorting the gospel". Gal. 1:7 .
Paul calls it "perverting the gospel." Gal.1:7 KJV
He calls it a form of witchcraft " who has bewitched you " - that is the "casting of an evil eye" - . Gal. 3:1
The word Sabbath simply means” rest” with no other meaning added to it.
We are not to add to a word(singular) in that way so we can keep the commandments(plural). It can change the context as a edit coming from men and therefore change the authors intent.. .
Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Because God chose to rest on the seventh, the word Sabbath does not equal a time sensitive word Saturday, the last day .
The phrase "last day" is used as to the beginning of eternal life, the new creation . It will be the end of life as we know it.The beginning of the new, appropriated by the first day when he set let there be light .
The Hebrews and Greeks did not have the word week meaning seven days or a division of days named Monday, Tues ...etc. But rather called it the first, second and third day e.t.c.
The word Sabbath ...means rest. And is not a time sensitive word. Somehow or other the paraphrases called it a week as a miss represented transliteration. . .
Yes it is not a day we are to do the pleasure of our will apart from the will of God and call that suffering . It’s a ceremonial law as a shadow pointing toward the eternal rest we will receive in our new incorruptible bodies. A day when we can work to bring the gospel into the world .when we don’t have to do the work needed to feed ourselves.
The Jews according to an oral tradition as the things of men had turned it into a day they could feel proud of their flesh and set up all kind of provisions .Like eating three times on the Sabbath and restricting the distance a person could walk or lighting a fire. and calling it Kosher.
One such person bragged he fasted twice on the Sabbath(singular) a day of rest .and not three Kosher meals which was the tradition at that time. Not week, which means 7 days .Again the word Sabbath with no other meaning added is not a time sensitive word.
I would agree we do the meat of His will when and if we offer the gospel of Christ as food for those who know not Christ those with a afflicted soul . In a living hope that perhaps He will grow the seed (gospel) that we can plant or another could water with the word.
It’s the kind of fast that cast out the lying spirits as the kind of food the disciples knew not of and therefore could not cast out the lying spirits .
We draw out our soul as if it was bread (manna)to feed those who hunger and thirst for a righteousness not of their own.
Isa 58:10 And if thou draw out “thy soul” to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day:
I would agree, but the new era of Sabbaths are moved to the first day of the week , the day of creation. The day He said let there be light, as the light of the gospel in respect to children of light... those led by the Spirit of Christ indwelling them as sons of God..
We are not to add to a word(singular) in that way so we can keep the commandments(plural). It can change the context as a edit coming from men and therefore change the authors intent.. .
Deuteronomy 4:2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Because God chose to rest on the seventh, the word Sabbath does not equal a time sensitive word Saturday, the last day .
The phrase "last day" is used as to the beginning of eternal life, the new creation . It will be the end of life as we know it.The beginning of the new, appropriated by the first day when he set let there be light .
The Hebrews and Greeks did not have the word week meaning seven days or a division of days named Monday, Tues ...etc. But rather called it the first, second and third day e.t.c.
The word Sabbath ...means rest. And is not a time sensitive word. Somehow or other the paraphrases called it a week as a miss represented transliteration. . .
Yes it is not a day we are to do the pleasure of our will apart from the will of God and call that suffering . It’s a ceremonial law as a shadow pointing toward the eternal rest we will receive in our new incorruptible bodies. A day when we can work to bring the gospel into the world .when we don’t have to do the work needed to feed ourselves.
The Jews according to an oral tradition as the things of men had turned it into a day they could feel proud of their flesh and set up all kind of provisions .Like eating three times on the Sabbath and restricting the distance a person could walk or lighting a fire. and calling it Kosher.
One such person bragged he fasted twice on the Sabbath(singular) a day of rest .and not three Kosher meals which was the tradition at that time. Not week, which means 7 days .Again the word Sabbath with no other meaning added is not a time sensitive word.
I would agree we do the meat of His will when and if we offer the gospel of Christ as food for those who know not Christ those with a afflicted soul . In a living hope that perhaps He will grow the seed (gospel) that we can plant or another could water with the word.
It’s the kind of fast that cast out the lying spirits as the kind of food the disciples knew not of and therefore could not cast out the lying spirits .
We draw out our soul as if it was bread (manna)to feed those who hunger and thirst for a righteousness not of their own.
Isa 58:10 And if thou draw out “thy soul” to the hungry, and satisfy the afflicted soul; then shall thy light rise in obscurity, and thy darkness be as the noon day:
I would agree, but the new era of Sabbaths are moved to the first day of the week , the day of creation. The day He said let there be light, as the light of the gospel in respect to children of light... those led by the Spirit of Christ indwelling them as sons of God..
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Paul didn't stand for Judaizers coming in to tell people that now that they have come to Christ - they must keep the Law of Moses. Of which circumcision was the sign of the covenant - not only of Abraham but also of the Mosaic covenant.
Circumcision is the "keeping of the Law of Moses". This is a representation of all the Laws of Moses.
Anyone that says we must keep the law of Moses or we are dis-obeying God is perverting the gospel of Christ and is by Paul's definition - a Judaizer. Plain and simple.
Here is Paul's response to this group of people that are distorting and perverting the gospel of Christ. He didn't stand for it for even one hour so that the truth of the gospel would remain with the Galatians.
Galatians 2:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
People are free in Christ to observe any day or feast or anything else they choose too - BUT it has nothing to do with obeying God or dis-obeying God as the substance of all things is Christ Himself. Do not desert Christ for the Law of Moses.
Circumcision is the "keeping of the Law of Moses". This is a representation of all the Laws of Moses.
Anyone that says we must keep the law of Moses or we are dis-obeying God is perverting the gospel of Christ and is by Paul's definition - a Judaizer. Plain and simple.
Here is Paul's response to this group of people that are distorting and perverting the gospel of Christ. He didn't stand for it for even one hour so that the truth of the gospel would remain with the Galatians.
Galatians 2:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But not even Titus, who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] But it was because of the false brethren secretly brought in, who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.
People are free in Christ to observe any day or feast or anything else they choose too - BUT it has nothing to do with obeying God or dis-obeying God as the substance of all things is Christ Himself. Do not desert Christ for the Law of Moses.
I do not understand this spirit of contention and confrontation in this thread.
My understanding is we come to share how we eachunderstand.
I do notconsider it judaizing to explain why I love the Seventh Day as the Sabbath of the Lord. For me it is quite simple, it is the day chosen by our Father to rest when He created all we see in six days. He gave mankind the seventh day as a gift to rest and share with Him.
It is not my fault men make it something it is not.
Also, if people here think it appropriate to call names of others simply because their own behavior in the sight of the Father is executed with a clear conscience, then those peope do not believe what Pau has shared, at leas not all of what he shares.
If a person prefers the first day of the week as the Sabbath of the Lord, and observes it with a cearl conscience in God's sight, that person is not sinning. Why, when people do the same on the Seventh day he is condemned by others as a judaizer?
Do yo folks read the Word you claim to know so well?
My understanding is we come to share how we eachunderstand.
I do notconsider it judaizing to explain why I love the Seventh Day as the Sabbath of the Lord. For me it is quite simple, it is the day chosen by our Father to rest when He created all we see in six days. He gave mankind the seventh day as a gift to rest and share with Him.
It is not my fault men make it something it is not.
Also, if people here think it appropriate to call names of others simply because their own behavior in the sight of the Father is executed with a clear conscience, then those peope do not believe what Pau has shared, at leas not all of what he shares.
If a person prefers the first day of the week as the Sabbath of the Lord, and observes it with a cearl conscience in God's sight, that person is not sinning. Why, when people do the same on the Seventh day he is condemned by others as a judaizer?
Do yo folks read the Word you claim to know so well?
We are free to think and believe as we wish and to honor in our own way a shadow of the real thing that is in Christ. That is NOT the issue here.
The perversion of the gospel of Christ comes in when they say "You must keep the Sabbath Day as in the Law of Moses - or you are dis-obeying God". That my friend is the real issue and that is what Paul calls a Judaizer and it is against the work of Christ.
Everyone is free to observe a day as they like, Saturday, Sunday, Tuesday....everyday...whatever. The real Sabbath rest is in Christ Himself.
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
I'd say if you are only resting in Christ one day of the week, then you are a sabbath keeper for only one day of the week and a disobedient sabbath breaker for the other 6 days. That's 313 days of the year you are breaking sabbath and being disobedient.
So true. Well said. Thank God for His grace as we learn to rely on Christ's work for life and living 24/7 every day and in every circumstance that comes in this life.
Then speak specifically to the person who makes it mandatory, and understand there are many who believe what they read inthe Word, for themselves, literally.
For insatnce, I believe God gave us teh seventh day as the day of rest, or the Sabbath of the Lord. I believe it because He has never changed that order of creation to his reasing on the first day.
I have a clear conscience in the sight of God in so doing, and no flesh, not even the ancient RCC is authorized to change this for me. Perhaps for others, but never for me.
If this is judaizing, then nail me to a tree for offending the intelligencia of today's church.....it is no different now than when Jesus, Yeshua walked His earth.
For insatnce, I believe God gave us teh seventh day as the day of rest, or the Sabbath of the Lord. I believe it because He has never changed that order of creation to his reasing on the first day.
I have a clear conscience in the sight of God in so doing, and no flesh, not even the ancient RCC is authorized to change this for me. Perhaps for others, but never for me.
If this is judaizing, then nail me to a tree for offending the intelligencia of today's church.....it is no different now than when Jesus, Yeshua walked His earth.
G77 and FNC are talking about obeying the Sabbath in spirit and truth. G777 is right when he says that if someone sets aside a specific day to focus totally on God, they don't do anything wrong in this. He is also right when he says that if they say a man who doesn't do this is sinning, then it becomes wrong. Because they may be obeying in spirit and truth and then they also are doing no wrong but are being accused of doing wrong because of judging them outwardly. Man does wrong when he judges outwardly. God looks at the heart and that is how He judges.
Every Sunday, millions of people go to church. But you can't see if they are obedient in spirit and truth. Some may be and others may not be.
Every Sunday, millions of people go to church. But you can't see if they are obedient in spirit and truth. Some may be and others may not be.
F
FreeNChrist
Guest
The “sabbath commandment" was to enter into the rest that God had provided. The sabbath day was a reminder of God's rest and a precursor that pointed to Jesus Christ, in whom is our true and eternal Sabbath rest provided by God.
I once noted something interesting. It is just interesting. I don't mean to say ANYTHING by it except that I found it interesting.
If one were to be legalistic and say they wanted to tithe a tenth of their time to the Lord, and they calculated 24 hrs a day times 7 days a week, and times by .10, they would come to just shy of 17 hours. This would leave 7 hours for sleep and would equal 24 hours, one day of a week.
If one were to be legalistic and say they wanted to tithe a tenth of their time to the Lord, and they calculated 24 hrs a day times 7 days a week, and times by .10, they would come to just shy of 17 hours. This would leave 7 hours for sleep and would equal 24 hours, one day of a week.
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If we believe every word literally then when God says in Ex 32:33 that "everyone who has sinned , He will blot out of His book." We all have sinned and therefore are blotted out of His book.
We need to read all scriptures through the filter of Christ's work for us and all that He Himself has accomplished for us - without that - we are mixing up the covenants and really watering down both covenants and not experiencing the purpose of any of them.
I too believe in the general concept of taking a day to rest. That is wisdom in action given to us from the Lord.
But again - when people say that "we must obey the Law of Moses as in keeping the Sabbath day or we are being dis-obedient to God". That is Judaizing and it is an anti-Christ belief system.
Everyone is free to observe a day or a festival - or whatever as they wish including you and I - that is not the issue and that is not being a Judaizer and perverting the gospel as Paul talked about in Galatians.
These are vastly different things. One is distorting the gospel of Christ - the other is expressing their liberty in Christ.
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F
FreeNChrist
Guest
There is no more sabbath “day”. I’m not a great fan of Johnny MacArthur, but he does explain well the distinction between the sabbath day of Judaism and the Lords' Day of Christianity.
Sabbath & Lord's Day
There is no such thing as a separate Sabbath ‘day’ anymore. Christians meet together on the first day of the week in recognition of, and in celebration of, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The church being the church of the risen, resurrected, living, Lord God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Saturday, as I said, reminds us of God as Creator and God as Law-giver and it reminds us of the beauty of God's creation, the magnificence of His creation and the sinfulness of our own hearts.
The Sabbath as a day is gone. Colossians 2:16 and 17, “Don't let anybody hold you to a Sabbath day.” It's gone, it is part of Judaism that has been replaced by the New Covenant.
But when you come to the New Covenant, you have a new kind of observation, not observing God as Creator, not observing God as Law-giver, but in the New Covenant God is defining Himself as...what?...Savior. So the New Covenant has its own day, not a Sabbath day, but the Lord's day, a day in which we focus on God as our Savior.
Sabbath & Lord's Day
There is no such thing as a separate Sabbath ‘day’ anymore. Christians meet together on the first day of the week in recognition of, and in celebration of, the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The church being the church of the risen, resurrected, living, Lord God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
Saturday, as I said, reminds us of God as Creator and God as Law-giver and it reminds us of the beauty of God's creation, the magnificence of His creation and the sinfulness of our own hearts.
The Sabbath as a day is gone. Colossians 2:16 and 17, “Don't let anybody hold you to a Sabbath day.” It's gone, it is part of Judaism that has been replaced by the New Covenant.
But when you come to the New Covenant, you have a new kind of observation, not observing God as Creator, not observing God as Law-giver, but in the New Covenant God is defining Himself as...what?...Savior. So the New Covenant has its own day, not a Sabbath day, but the Lord's day, a day in which we focus on God as our Savior.
So this is the part I adore
Good question.
I believe the scriptures teach that it is to rely on Christ for everything. We rest in what He has done Himself and we cease from our own labors. This means stop trying to do things to qualify ourselves for the promises and life of Christ. Christ Himself qualifies us for all things and we experience these by grace through faith in Christ alone. - Not what we do or don't do.
Hebrews 4:9-11 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] So there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For the one who has entered His rest has himself also rested from his works, as God did from His.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Therefore let us be diligent to enter that rest, so that no one will fall, through following the same example of disobedience. ( this is unbelief in the Greek )
The New Covenant is all about Christ and what He has done and what that means to us. We can try to live the Christian life by our own will-power and self-effort or we can rely on Christ alone. His grace will supply all that we need - including the good works that will manifest from His life expressing itself in and through us.
I think Exodus 16 is the key for understanding that parable that uses the temporal as that seen to point as a shadow to the eternal not seen , the way we are given to understand parables which as parables which are historically true. Again shadows used to point to that not seen , the kingdom of God not of this world.
2Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
The context below.
And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they “gathered” twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, Tomorrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake (needing firewood. ) that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. Exo 16:25
I would think obvious conclusion it appears one man might of gathered twice as much on the seventh day but did not bake it. Therefore picking up firewood in a hope it would be made edible caused the death as an example how the ceremonial law was used.
There was no commanded that a person could not work to keep themselves warm on any day . The fire must of been in respect to baking manna which had turned sour, and spoiled.
It was in respect to no servile work the normal work needed to sustain their physical bodies of death and pay the rent .Again not that were not allowed to keep warm .If it was even cold during that demonstration.
That man who could of been a believer that died just as did Ananias who also lied to the Spirit by doing what he should not of, as an example to to other believers..
And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. Num 15:32
2Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
The context below.
And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they “gathered” twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, Tomorrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake (needing firewood. ) that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none. Exo 16:25
I would think obvious conclusion it appears one man might of gathered twice as much on the seventh day but did not bake it. Therefore picking up firewood in a hope it would be made edible caused the death as an example how the ceremonial law was used.
There was no commanded that a person could not work to keep themselves warm on any day . The fire must of been in respect to baking manna which had turned sour, and spoiled.
It was in respect to no servile work the normal work needed to sustain their physical bodies of death and pay the rent .Again not that were not allowed to keep warm .If it was even cold during that demonstration.
That man who could of been a believer that died just as did Ananias who also lied to the Spirit by doing what he should not of, as an example to to other believers..
And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. Num 15:32