For the Homophobes

[Willie-T]

Just talking in general and bouncing in thought from Willie's posting that was thought provoking. First let me say, I'm not offended by any thing said on this thread so hopefully no one will read into this other than just my sharing.

I personally detest the term homophobe. It's a hateful term used to hate and shame when used in labeling people. And yet they themselves would not be labeled. We often find that those who scream for tolerance are sometimes the least likely to give it.

Our only son (20+) is gay. My older brother told us to kick him out. Why, because our son feels differently about how to live than we do? How could kicking him out be love? Our son has been brought up in the faith but never truly embraced Christ. He has passively resisted any call to his heart. He used to go to church with us, just playing along. He lives in our house and will probably do so until he can successfully support himself. I'm NOT kicking him out because of his choices. We don't fight. We live in peace most of the time because we agree to disagree. We help him in all things just like we help our daughter (who is a Christian). The only person he's harming is himself. We will love him right where he is and hope that one day the Holy Spirit will help him change his mind. But I think part of the reason we can live in peace is because he sees that Love in action. And even though he may secretly hate/despise us for believing in Jesus, he can't help but realize we are always reaching out to him because of our Faith.

He's pointed out the Westboro Baptist Church behavior as being Christians. A beautiful twist from the enemy to dump all believers in one bucket. Confusion is not of God. It is a counterfeit faith. But it gives us a chance to share more of what is God's true love. Otherwise, we just 'love' him without getting in his face with 'Jesus stuff'.

"Preach the gospel at all times; when necessary, use words."

God's already polishing up a special crown for you. (It doesn't just sit on your head, it wraps around your beautiful heart.)

 

[JFSurvivor]

Which side we see more of usually has to do with our community. I live in a very liberal area with a very active LGBT community. Most of the Christian abuses towards gays that I see are on tv and the internet.

If I was from an area that was full of the white-washed walls of the cultural "christians", then my view would likely be the reverse. I would assume you are from a more conservative area? Or perhaps just know many people from a legalistic congregation?

I feel like the issue is Christians have a standard in how we are to conduct ourselves towards people. Gay people do not have that standard. Who are we to hold them to our standard? We cry for equality just like them however when we do not recieve it or are persecuted we are to see this as a joy. When they are persecuted or precieve to be persecuted it really does hurt them because they do not have our mindset. They don't have that faith shield. So as Christians who are fellow sinners shouldn't we take pity on these homosexuals and love them more because of their sin and how lost they are? Even if they don't come to Christ our job is not to bring them to Christ. Our job is to plant the seed. God does all the real work. So why do we get all in Gods business and think we are the ones that make a difference? We can only love and plant seeds and pray that they come to Christ. Oh and don't forget free will plays a part too. If they don't want to come to Christ, that is between them and God. Not us them and God. Our job is still the same: to love them unconditionally.

 

[Willie-T]

I'm osrry I didn't mean the gays are not cruel or mean I simply was saying that I have seen far more ppl claiming to be Christians attacking the gays than I have the gays attacking Christians. I don't always know how to put the right words together so sometimes I seem to say something entirely different than what I mean lol

(Probably comes from reading things too much in the KJV. LOL)

 

[Willie-T]

I'm pretty sure that our job is to show love and forgiveness to the unsaved, showing them Christ,
and are to rebuke those who remain in sin while claiming Christ.

Rebuking the sin of an unsaved homosexual doesn't change their heart. Only the Holy Spirit can do that.

When looking at our position, we should recognise how Christ responded to the lost, opposed to how He responded to the proud religious. Gentle love to the unsaved. Tough love to the wayward brethren.
I would only rebuke a homosexual for that sin if he/she is trying to say that they can follow Christ while living in that sin. If they don't claim Christ to begin with, what good does changing their behaviour do?

A friend of mine speaks to kids all across this nation, and he has learned to live by one rule, "if you love them, they will come, if you judge them, they will run," (I think he learned that from Jesus.)

 

[Willie-T]

Umm I think this verse should be directed towards us Christians. I know many gays and many Christians but the only group I see attacking or being mean to the other is the Christians. I never once have heard or seen the gays attacking or being mean like that in fact one of the kindest and most caring person at my volunteer place is in fact a gay. But I actively see Christians attacking the gays I see them judging them and saying mean things about them, true in order to be saved they must be willing to give up their lustful lifestyle and it isn't going to go away at once because fleshly desires like this is very difficult to expel completey but it isn't having the desire that makes it a sin it's acting upon it.


I actually have seen many gays coming to cc for help because they want to change because they want to be saved and I always message them trying to help but I have seen many being scared away from cc because of what ppl say about them and how they treat the gays and it breaks my heart because I truly want to help them but I never saw them again.

"If we love them, they will come, if we judge them, they will run." Much of what we claim to say in love.... is not.

 

[Willie-T]

Loving your brother (in deed and in truth) with this worlds goods when seeing them naked (to clothe them) or hungry (feed them) or in prison (even as John the baptist was in prison) and doing unto the least of these (whom he is not ashamed to call brethren) by giving them (out of your abundance) in what they need (whether food, drink, clothing or lodging for the body) even visiting them when cast in prison is good (because we care for them) but its not the same pampering kind of love (or rather demonstration of love) towards those who be called brothers but who continue on sinning and hang out with us. That kind of love is shown in Jesus who says those he loves he rebukes (and chastises)

Those who are hungry have need of food, those who are thirsty have need of drink, those who are cold have need of clothes and those who sin have need of being rebuked.

The needs are different and loving someone (in rebuking them) is just as much caring for their soul as loving someone while caring for the needs of the body (with your provision)

The world will not receive those who are Christ's but their own. This is even how the world is judged, even as by those (who are his) coming in some form of need (and what you have done unto the least of these my brethren)

Those who sin are to be rebuked, shunning is that which helps that which "is called" a brother even as Paul advises

1 Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company,
if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner;
with such an one no not to eat.

Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

Shunning (even putting away from ourselves) those who do the same is meant to make them feel ashamed (and aid them in changing their minds).

If we love them, they will come, if we judge them, they will run.

 

[DesiredHaven]

If we love them, they will come, if we judge them, they will run.

Paul was not being unloving in his instruction

1 Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company,
if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner;
with such an one no not to eat.

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth.
Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without?
do not ye judge them that are within?

He says not to keep company with those who call themselves brothers and be these things

 

[FridaysChild]

God's already polishing up a special crown for you. (It doesn't just sit on your head, it wraps around your beautiful heart.)

I must tell you, this brought tears to my eyes. There are several things in RL going on for me. This was rather timely. So thank you for saying something so beautiful if not poetic. It's hard to think He would do such a thing but the truth is, we can NEVER out give God. And none of us truly know what He has prepared for those He loves.

Thank you so much, brother. A double blessing on you.

 

[Willie-T]

Paul was not being unloving in his instruction

1 Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company,
if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner;
with such an one no not to eat.

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth.
Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without?
do not ye judge them that are within?

He says not to keep company with those who call themselves brothers and be these things

Paul also had a lot to say about women in church and other things. I'll go with Jesus, first.

 

[Sophia]

Paul was not being unloving in his instruction

1 Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company,
if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner;
with such an one no not to eat.

1 Cr 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth.
Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

1 Cr 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without?
do not ye judge them that are within?

He says not to keep company with those who call themselves brothers and be these things

Excellent portion of Scripture to nail this topic down.
God will judge the unbeliever. We are to rebuke the one who claims to believe yet acts like an unbeliever, lest they continue in unbelief and be judged.

Can a person continue in homosexuality and also continue in Christ?
Can a person continue in lying and also continue in Christ?
Can a person continue in anger and also continue in Christ?
Can a person continue in lust and also continue in Christ?
Can a person continue in drunkeness and also continue in Christ?
Can a person continue in murder and also continue in Christ?
(Sin is sin. If you say yes to one of these questions, you say yes to all. If you say no to one, you say no to all.)

Let our purpose be discipleship and evangelism, and let God judge the unbeliever.

 

[BradC]

Just talking in general and bouncing in thought from Willie's posting that was thought provoking. First let me say, I'm not offended by any thing said on this thread so hopefully no one will read into this other than just my sharing.

I personally detest the term homophobe. It's a hateful term used to hate and shame when used in labeling people. And yet they themselves would not be labeled. We often find that those who scream for tolerance are sometimes the least likely to give it.

Our only son (20+) is gay. My older brother told us to kick him out. Why, because our son feels differently about how to live than we do? How could kicking him out be love? Our son has been brought up in the faith but never truly embraced Christ. He has passively resisted any call to his heart. He used to go to church with us, just playing along. He lives in our house and will probably do so until he can successfully support himself. I'm NOT kicking him out because of his choices. We don't fight. We live in peace most of the time because we agree to disagree. We help him in all things just like we help our daughter (who is a Christian). The only person he's harming is himself. We will love him right where he is and hope that one day the Holy Spirit will help him change his mind. But I think part of the reason we can live in peace is because he sees that Love in action. And even though he may secretly hate/despise us for believing in Jesus, he can't help but realize we are always reaching out to him because of our Faith.

He's pointed out the Westboro Baptist Church behavior as being Christians. A beautiful twist from the enemy to dump all believers in one bucket. Confusion is not of God. It is a counterfeit faith. But it gives us a chance to share more of what is God's true love. Otherwise, we just 'love' him without getting in his face with 'Jesus stuff'.

"Preach the gospel at all times; when necessary, use words."

I understand where you are coming from in that you love your son, your flesh and blood, and that is right and a very good thing. However, what we are dealing with in this world, concerning the spirit of this age, involves inordinate affections that goes way beyond what you have going on in your household. Same sex attractions among other inordinate affections is a spiritual anomaly that effects millions of people worldwide. This spirit has to be discerned and recognized for what it is. Many 'Christians' do not want to acknowledge and seriously consider what God revealed to the apostle Paul about this issue of life and the progression that takes place as recorded in (Romans, chapter 1). It was given to Paul and written to the church at Rome for very good reason.

At this point some get offended and swell up with anger and inward resentment because it affects someone very close to them. That is how prevalent inordinate affections have infiltrated every area of life. Inordinate affections are depraved passions that have resulted from much inward suffering of the mind that incapacitates and shuts down the emotions on one end and opens them up on the other end, leading the person to reject themselves and it's reinforced through the rejection of others which comes after. They are tormented inwardly for a period of time before they give place to this spirit of inordinate affections.

If this is not addressed early it will produce images and imaginations in the mind that trend toward abnormal, unnatural and perverse behavior. This is where depraved passions come into play, effecting the mind with disturbing thoughts and images accompanied by a strong curiosity to secretly explore those depraved images. This is how it starts and it progresses within the framework of that person psychologically and physiologically to the point where the vocal cords can be effected and the way the person handles their body because their perception of who they are is changing through an inordinate sexual type of metamorphosis. Read (Romans 1) and see what these inspired scriptures offer.

 

[Willie-T]

"If we love them, they will come, if we judge them, they will run." means a lot to me. I do NOT see love saying all the crap we blow at people, simply followed up with, "But, I hope you know I'm only trying to shame you because I love you."

 

[DesiredHaven]

Paul also had a lot to say about women in church and other things. I'll go with Jesus, first.

I agree with Paul and women not being teachers, but I wouldnt trust a man who never quotes the scripture either and brings that up to overthrow Paul because Paul doesnt see eye to eye with him.

I rarely see you quote a scripture or speak in accord with it.

 

[Sophia]

"If we love them, they will come, if we judge them, they will run." means a lot to me. I do NOT see love saying all the crap we blow at people, simply followed up with, "But, I hope you know I'm only trying to shame you because I love you."

I agree with that mindset concerning unbelievers,
but disagree if you are also applying it to those who claim Christ.

 

[DesiredHaven]

"If we love them, they will come, if we judge them, they will run." means a lot to me. I do NOT see love saying all the crap we blow at people, simply followed up with, "But, I hope you know I'm only trying to shame you because I love you."

I dont count Pauls instruction as crap, and Paul wasnt giving instruction for those in the world but in the church

1 Cr 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

1 Cr 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

1 Cr 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator...etc

 

[BradC]

Willie, our job is not to judge but to understand and discern and then to apply wisdom that God gives us.

Eph 2:2,3

2 In which at one time you walked [habitually]. You were following the course and fashion of this world [were under the sway of the tendency of this present age], following the prince of the power of the air. [You were obedient to and under the control of] the [demonic] spirit that still constantly works in the sons of disobedience [the careless, the rebellious, and the unbelieving, who go against the purposes of God].

3 Among these we as well as you once lived and conducted ourselves in the passions of our flesh [our behavior governed by our corrupt and sensual nature], obeying the impulses of the flesh and the thoughts of the mind [our cravings dictated by our senses and our dark imaginings]. We were then by nature children of [God’s] wrath and heirs of [His] indignation, like the rest of mankind.

Col 4:5

Walk in wisdom toward them that are without, redeeming the time.

 

[secularhermit]

Mark has something to say to you Mark 12:31 - And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

My mom has (as neihbor) one of them, who got AIDS. Once in a while, I have talked to him, because he is not hated and he is very honest and transparent...

Questions:

Will you shake his hand or hug him on X-mas or by New Year´s celebration?

There are "safety" limits.

 

[FridaysChild]

I understand where you are coming from in that you love your son, your flesh and blood, and that is right and a very good thing. However, what we are dealing with in this world, concerning the spirit of this age, involves inordinate affections that goes way beyond what you have going on in your household. Same sex attractions among other inordinate affections is a spiritual anomaly that effects millions of people worldwide. This spirit has to be discerned and recognized for what it is. Many 'Christians' do not want to acknowledge and seriously consider what God revealed to the apostle Paul about this issue of life and the progression that takes place as recorded in (Romans, chapter 1). It was given to Paul and written to the church at Rome for very good reason.

At this point some get offended and swell up with anger and inward resentment because it affects someone very close to them. That is how prevalent inordinate affections have infiltrated every area of life. Inordinate affections are depraved passions that have resulted from much inward suffering of the mind that incapacitates and shuts down the emotions on one end and opens them up on the other end, leading the person to reject themselves and it's reinforced through the rejection of others which comes after. They are tormented inwardly for a period of time before they give place to this spirit of inordinate affections.

If this is not addressed early it will produce images and imaginations in the mind that trend toward abnormal, unnatural and perverse behavior. This is where depraved passions come into play, effecting the mind with disturbing thoughts and images accompanied by a strong curiosity to secretly explore those depraved images. This is how it starts and it progresses within the framework of that person psychologically and physiologically to the point where the vocal cords can be effected and the way the person handles their body because their perception of who they are is changing through an inordinate sexual type of metamorphosis. Read (Romans 1) and see what these inspired scriptures offer.

The only thing I might 'get offended and swell up with anger' at is the fact that this comes off very much like a lecture.

If you're going to lead off on a post with my son, please talk to me and not at me.

thank you

 

[Willie-T]

I agree with Paul and women not being teachers, but I wouldnt trust a man who never quotes the scripture either and brings that up to overthrow Paul because Paul doesnt see eye to eye with him.

I rarely see you quote a scripture or speak in accord with it.

I HOPE to God you hardly EVER see me "quote a Scripture." All that proves is that you can operate the copy/paste function of your computer.

And I feel that almost everything I say is directly in accord with what Jesus taught.

But do not doubt for a second, that I can also use four-syllable theocratic words and quote (from memory) easily as many "verses" as almost anyone on here... possibly more than most.

All that means nothing (to paraphrase Scripture) if you do not have love.

 

[Monnkai]

My mom has (as neihbor) one of them, who got AIDS. Once in a while, I have talked to him, because he is not hated and he is very honest and transparent...

Questions:

Will you shake his hand or hug him on X-mas or by New Year´s celebration?

There are "safety" limits.

Well only blood and mucus and other bodily fluids carry the virus. so as long as hes not dripping blood into my drink I'll shake his hand. I dont know if you meant it that way though