for those who do not sin

[Skinski7]

This is true. We are inwardly renewed, i.e., we have been given a new spirit from heaven that is without sin.

The faulty reasoning made by some who think they don't (or cannot) sin is that they think the flesh has also been renewed (made sinless), which is absurd. We are told to put on the mind of Christ and die to the old man. If the death of the old man was actual, instead of judicial, there would be no need for us to daily crucify the old man because he would already be dead.

Their state of perfection is simply a mental state of denial that they have a corrupt, sinful nature.

Actually a Christian has a NEW NATURE not a corrupt and sinful nature. ALL THINGS are become new for old things have passed away.

2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

In other words being IN Christ means we no longer live unto ourselves but unto the will of God. This is why Peter would write...

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Pe 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The sin that ceases is that which has to do with living according to the lusts of men. That life is put off via the death of the old man when we are buried with Christ in the baptism of repentance whereby we are raised up to newness of life by the power of God. Thus Peter writes that it was in "times past" that we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess and idolatry. Likewise Paul wrote...

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

We are not to be deceived by those who would teach that one can walk as the world and not be under the wrath of God. We as children of the light are to walk in that light.

The old man IS crucified with Christ that the body of sin be destroyed once and for all.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Yet the old man being crucified does not mean that temptation ceases for we are still subject to the passions and desires of the flesh. Temptation is simply common to man.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Hence we are to take heed and take the way of escape lest we fall. Paul writes that...

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Eternal life will be reaped by those who faint not but patiently continue in well doing via the leading of the Spirit.

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

A Christian has ESCAPED the corruption that is in the world through list in order that they may partake in the divine nature.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Thus we are to add to our faith via the exceeding and precious promises whereby God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness. After all the end of the commandment is...

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Therefore the sin that has ceased in the genuine Christian is the "doing of known evil."

Which is why Peter would write...

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Paul wrote...

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Php 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Peter went on to give warning...

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Many people attempt to excuse ongoing willful transgression whilst remaining in a state of justification yet the Bible clearly refutes such a notion...

Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The blood of Christ purges sin via cleansing our hearts of an evil conscience whereby we are truly washed clean. The blood is not a cloak for ongoing iniquity, to treat it as such is to treat the grace of God with contempt.

Many people believe in a theology whereby sin is more powerful than Jesus. They utterly deny that Jesus can set them free from ALL SIN and truly make them clean.

When John wrote...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The context in regards as to how one approaches God seeking reconciliation which is via...

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Thus God grants mercy on the condition of...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Whereby one approaches God with a TRUE HEART via the blood of Christ confessing that they have sinned against God and God in His mercy is willing to cleanse that person. Not cleanse them so they can go back out and make themselves filthy again, NO! Cleanse them so they can walk in truth with a pure heart and grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Not sinfless perfection, rather a PURE HEART.

The rebellion to God has ceased.




This thread is a trap rooted in a fallacious view of sin. Why not ask...

For those who are not in rebellion.

The sin that condemns is rebellion which is willfully doing wrong when YOU KNOW it is wrong. That kind of sin must cease BEFORE God will grant forgiveness.

 

[josh123]

why people don't realise is to be free from sinning is different than to commit a sin.. the flesh is weak you cannot tell me you never look at a woman and haven't lust since you've been saved or you never told a lie since you have and a lie is a lie doesn't matter how small it may seem if you have $5 and tell someone you have $3 that is a lie

 

[Bookends]

Actually a Christian has a NEW NATURE not a corrupt and sinful nature. ALL THINGS are become new for old things have passed away.

2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

In other words being IN Christ means we no longer live unto ourselves but unto the will of God. This is why Peter would write...

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Pe 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The sin that ceases is that which has to do with living according to the lusts of men. That life is put off via the death of the old man when we are buried with Christ in the baptism of repentance whereby we are raised up to newness of life by the power of God. Thus Peter writes that it was in "times past" that we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess and idolatry. Likewise Paul wrote...

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

We are not to be deceived by those who would teach that one can walk as the world and not be under the wrath of God. We as children of the light are to walk in that light.

The old man IS crucified with Christ that the body of sin be destroyed once and for all.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Yet the old man being crucified does not mean that temptation ceases for we are still subject to the passions and desires of the flesh. Temptation is simply common to man.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Hence we are to take heed and take the way of escape lest we fall. Paul writes that...

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Eternal life will be reaped by those who faint not but patiently continue in well doing via the leading of the Spirit.

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

A Christian has ESCAPED the corruption that is in the world through list in order that they may partake in the divine nature.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Thus we are to add to our faith via the exceeding and precious promises whereby God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness. After all the end of the commandment is...

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Therefore the sin that has ceased in the genuine Christian is the "doing of known evil."

Which is why Peter would write...

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Paul wrote...

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Php 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Peter went on to give warning...

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Many people attempt to excuse ongoing willful transgression whilst remaining in a state of justification yet the Bible clearly refutes such a notion...

Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The blood of Christ purges sin via cleansing our hearts of an evil conscience whereby we are truly washed clean. The blood is not a cloak for ongoing iniquity, to treat it as such is to treat the grace of God with contempt.

Many people believe in a theology whereby sin is more powerful than Jesus. They utterly deny that Jesus can set them free from ALL SIN and truly make them clean.

When John wrote...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The context in regards as to how one approaches God seeking reconciliation which is via...

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Thus God grants mercy on the condition of...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Whereby one approaches God with a TRUE HEART via the blood of Christ confessing that they have sinned against God and God in His mercy is willing to cleanse that person. Not cleanse them so they can go back out and make themselves filthy again, NO! Cleanse them so they can walk in truth with a pure heart and grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Not sinfless perfection, rather a PURE HEART.

The rebellion to God has ceased.




This thread is a trap rooted in a fallacious view of sin. Why not ask...

For those who are not in rebellion.

The sin that condemns is rebellion which is willfully doing wrong when YOU KNOW it is wrong. That kind of sin must cease BEFORE God will grant forgiveness.

Matt. 18
[h=3]The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant[/h][SUP]21 [/SUP]Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.

I guess God doesn't have to follow His own teaching to us.

 

[Skinski7]

Matt. 18
The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.

I guess God doesn't have to follow His own teaching to us.

So you grab a parable which speaks of forgiveness and use it in an attempt to deny this...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Stephen forgave those who were stoning him to death but that does not mean God winks at rebellion and will forgive those who refuse to confess and forsake their wickedness. The Bible is very clear...

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Many people just don't want to believe it. It is so simple that even a child can understand it.

 

[ForthAngel]

why people don't realise is to be free from sinning is different than to commit a sin.. the flesh is weak you cannot tell me you never look at a woman and haven't lust since you've been saved or you never told a lie since you have and a lie is a lie doesn't matter how small it may seem if you have $5 and tell someone you have $3 that is a lie

I agree. I think in some of these discussions there is a major misunderstanding and the people debating one another actually have the same belief but aren't coming across in a way that others understand it and their arguments against each other are in vain.

But, there are others here that think their own body is incapable of sin any more since salvation. This is a fallacy and turns people who would come to repent away from God because as we all well know (whether we admit it or not), it's impossible to be perfect, and to the young believers or lost, this doctrine of sinless perfection confuses and destroys what little hope some of them may have left and turns them back into slavery.

It is also a stain on Christianity and one of the major reasons the world mocks us. These extremist are the ones they focus on and it damages the credibility of true believers and severely weakens their testimony in the world.

 

[cfultz3]

Skinski,

Would you explain the following:

Whereby one approaches God with a TRUE HEART via the blood of Christ confessing that they have sinned against God and God in His mercy is willing to cleanse that person. Not cleanse them so they can go back out and make themselves filthy again, NO! Cleanse them so they can walk in truth with a pure heart and grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Not sinfless perfection, rather a PURE HEART.

The rebellion to God has ceased.

If what you are saying does not equate to "sinless perfection", then Scripture does hold true to Itself: and if we were to say that we do not have sin, then we do deceive ourselves and the Truth is not in us. The very same thing we, at least most, are saying.

You further state, "the rebellion [against] God has ceased...This thread is a trap rooted in a fallacious view of sin". Of course, we know we cannot be in rebellion to God and still be considered a saint. I have yet read where one stated differently.

Will you point out all those who are saying you can live in open defiance to God's moral Laws and still be a saint?

Just one will do!!!!!

 

[ForthAngel]

Growth is impossible without correction. Those who say they are sinless in the flesh in some way make themselves like unto gods. Reminds me of something I read somewhere.. Can't put my finger on it...

 

[john832]

why people don't realise is to be free from sinning is different than to commit a sin.. the flesh is weak you cannot tell me you never look at a woman and haven't lust since you've been saved or you never told a lie since you have and a lie is a lie doesn't matter how small it may seem if you have $5 and tell someone you have $3 that is a lie

Well what do you know, we do agree on some things.

 

[cfultz3]

So you grab a parable which speaks of forgiveness and use it in an attempt to deny this...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Stephen forgave those who were stoning him to death but that does not mean God winks at rebellion and will forgive those who refuse to confess and forsake their wickedness. The Bible is very clear...

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Many people just don't want to believe it. It is so simple that even a child can understand it.

You come with slanderous words in hopes of catching an ear. I have yet to see Bookends say not to confess sins which we are being convicted of by the Holy Spirit. But, surely he has said otherwise?

That which you judge by shall also be what you are judged by. False accusations come from false lips. Here is wisdom: Do not the deceitful lull by condemnation?

 

[loveme1]

Matthew 22

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38This is the first and great commandment. 39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

set your heart upon His Word.

Ephesians 4

4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,
2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;
3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:
16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.
17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,
18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:
19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But ye have not so learned Christ;
21 If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:
22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
25 Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another.
26 Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:
27 Neither give place to the devil.
28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
29 Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers.
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
31 Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice:
32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

Are we seeking to come together in unity?

It is not calling out people to state they are without sin, but believing on He that is without sin or blemish,who laid His life down for us, so that we can be forgiven.

a willing obedient heart not by self-effort but by the power of GOD.

Showing mercy upon us.

By Grace we are saved.

increasing our Faith by hearing and doing all that is commanded and there is much.

We set our heart to love and obey, like we are Loved, then the fruit will increase and be good because: we believe the

Words of the True vine given for our Salvation by the GOOD Husbandman.

 

[BananaPie]

I think y'all should come over to my place to mess around in the family room while watching The Bourne movies and 50 Dates, and munch all day on garlic pizzas, pies and orange crush sodas.

...oh, and did I mentioned that BananaPie is blameless? Her amnesia keeps her blameless. :giggles:

 

[Bookends]

So you grab a parable which speaks of forgiveness and use it in an attempt to deny this...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Stephen forgave those who were stoning him to death but that does not mean God winks at rebellion and will forgive those who refuse to confess and forsake their wickedness. The Bible is very clear...

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Many people just don't want to believe it. It is so simple that even a child can understand it.

I believe God's cup of mercy is bigger then His cup of wrath, but sooner on later, if true repentance doesn't come, then yah, you can fill His cup of wrath.

 

[homwardbound]

This is true. We are inwardly renewed, i.e., we have been given a new spirit from heaven that is without sin.

The faulty reasoning made by some who think they don't (or cannot) sin is that they think the flesh has also been renewed (made sinless), which is absurd. We are told to put on the mind of Christ and die to the old man. If the death of the old man was actual, instead of judicial, there would be no need for us to daily crucify the old man because he would already be dead.

Their state of perfection is simply a mental state of denial that they have a corrupt, sinful nature.

and because of the unredeemed flesh we are to consider self dead to sin
Romans 6:11 Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

How can you be alive to God unless you believe by God you are dead to sin by Christ's death?

 

[homwardbound]

i see.
no conviction from the Spirit when you sin?
no prompt to confess and be cleansed?
okay.

thanks.

no shedding of blood and there is no:
Hebrews 9:22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.

Hebrews 7:27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.

Hebrews 1:3 who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,

1 Corinthians 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.

 

[homwardbound]

Actually a Christian has a NEW NATURE not a corrupt and sinful nature. ALL THINGS are become new for old things have passed away.

2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

In other words being IN Christ means we no longer live unto ourselves but unto the will of God. This is why Peter would write...

1Pe 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
1Pe 4:2 That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.
1Pe 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:
1Pe 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.

The sin that ceases is that which has to do with living according to the lusts of men. That life is put off via the death of the old man when we are buried with Christ in the baptism of repentance whereby we are raised up to newness of life by the power of God. Thus Peter writes that it was in "times past" that we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess and idolatry. Likewise Paul wrote...

Eph 5:1 Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;
Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.
Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

We are not to be deceived by those who would teach that one can walk as the world and not be under the wrath of God. We as children of the light are to walk in that light.

The old man IS crucified with Christ that the body of sin be destroyed once and for all.

Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.

Yet the old man being crucified does not mean that temptation ceases for we are still subject to the passions and desires of the flesh. Temptation is simply common to man.

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Hence we are to take heed and take the way of escape lest we fall. Paul writes that...

Gal 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Eternal life will be reaped by those who faint not but patiently continue in well doing via the leading of the Spirit.

Rom 2:5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Rom 2:6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
Rom 2:8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

A Christian has ESCAPED the corruption that is in the world through list in order that they may partake in the divine nature.

2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Thus we are to add to our faith via the exceeding and precious promises whereby God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness. After all the end of the commandment is...

1Ti 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

Therefore the sin that has ceased in the genuine Christian is the "doing of known evil."

Which is why Peter would write...

2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.

Paul wrote...

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
Php 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Php 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings:
Php 2:15 That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Php 2:16 Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain.

Peter went on to give warning...

2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

Many people attempt to excuse ongoing willful transgression whilst remaining in a state of justification yet the Bible clearly refutes such a notion...

Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
...
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The blood of Christ purges sin via cleansing our hearts of an evil conscience whereby we are truly washed clean. The blood is not a cloak for ongoing iniquity, to treat it as such is to treat the grace of God with contempt.

Many people believe in a theology whereby sin is more powerful than Jesus. They utterly deny that Jesus can set them free from ALL SIN and truly make them clean.

When John wrote...

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

The context in regards as to how one approaches God seeking reconciliation which is via...

1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Thus God grants mercy on the condition of...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Whereby one approaches God with a TRUE HEART via the blood of Christ confessing that they have sinned against God and God in His mercy is willing to cleanse that person. Not cleanse them so they can go back out and make themselves filthy again, NO! Cleanse them so they can walk in truth with a pure heart and grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. Not sinfless perfection, rather a PURE HEART.

The rebellion to God has ceased.




This thread is a trap rooted in a fallacious view of sin. Why not ask...

For those who are not in rebellion.

The sin that condemns is rebellion which is willfully doing wrong when YOU KNOW it is wrong. That kind of sin must cease BEFORE God will grant forgiveness.

Thanks for the thick stake, I am chewing on it slow and waiting for God to sort it all out in me. A lot said and see the truth of what is written in scripture, and know this is truth, for I know what God has done in me and the way I was, Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Which I have openly confessed and thanked God for the forgiveness provided to me via his Son Christ at the cross where he shed his blood for all the world,
That today there is no further sacrifice to be made, and that he was and is the last shedding of blood. There is no more forgiveness after receiving this and when one does by living in God ceases from sin, because God lives through that person, bringing in the sheep

 

[1still_waters]

Originally Posted by 1still_waters
So you don't sin anymore?

Not at this moment,

i see .............l

 

[homwardbound]

why people don't realise is to be free from sinning is different than to commit a sin.. the flesh is weak you cannot tell me you never look at a woman and haven't lust since you've been saved or you never told a lie since you have and a lie is a lie doesn't matter how small it may seem if you have $5 and tell someone you have $3 that is a lie

Yet as one grows, and understands the Grace of God given through the Son, Jesus Christ, one quits this behavior, more and more as God living in us, before through us, is dealing with us on the basis of a new nature God installed in us the first day of belief in God through Christ
Working outward from the new heart received from God. God spreads his love abroad throughout our new Spirit person God created in us, that starts at the heart transplant, spreading throughput us.
Eventually as one continues to grow up in this amazing grace from God, learning to say no to unrighteousness, the maturity comes to full effect when one says to God please take over the reins, Father you know all, so please live through me, and Father by free will and you asking will do this exactly, no more flesh in the way.

 

[homwardbound]

Matt. 18
The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.

I guess God doesn't have to follow His own teaching to us.

Hmm!!!! interesting catch and reply, I know God plain and simple just love us and we all do grow in his amazing grace and learn to leave unrighteousness behind, being forgiven 100% by God and not for taking it for granted, or using it for an occasion to the flesh.
Thank You for your possible take on this

 

[Skinski7]

You come with slanderous words in hopes of catching an ear. I have yet to see Bookends say not to confess sins which we are being convicted of by the Holy Spirit. But, surely he has said otherwise?

That which you judge by shall also be what you are judged by. False accusations come from false lips. Here is wisdom: Do not the deceitful lull by condemnation?

What was Bookends claiming then?

He alluded to the teaching of Jesus where we to not cease forgiving others no matter how many times they may offend us in some manner within the context of this...

guess God doesn't have to follow His own teaching to us.

A response that was made objecting to the point I was making that "rebellion has ceased" in a genuine Christian.

It is not slanderous to point that out. He does not believe Pro 28:13 or Isa 55:7.

Look at his followup post to my response...

I believe God's cup of mercy is bigger then His cup of wrath, but sooner on later, if true repentance doesn't come, then yah, you can fill His cup of wrath.

He clearly believes that the repentance can COME LATER due to the sins being forgiven in advance. Clearly the complete opposite of what the Bible teaches.

I am being slanderous and making false accusation by pointing such a thing out? Only in your mind is it so. I speak to truth plainly.

The rebellion must cease BEFORE God will forgive someone. The blood of Christ is not a cloak for ongoing iniquity. We are not forgiven by God in the midst of our rebellion whereby the blood of Christ cloaks an ongoing state of iniquity which will cease later on. Such teaching is devilish for it assures people that they can be saved in their rebellion.

I would suspect that Bookends is speaking from a Reformed Theological perspective. Reformed Theology clearly teaches that iniquity remains in a regenerated believer due to the inborn notion of Total Depravity. It is a form of dualism where sinfulness is connected to the flesh body apart from the free exercise of the will. In other words the flesh itself necessitates sinning.

 

[homwardbound]

So you grab a parable which speaks of forgiveness and use it in an attempt to deny this...

Pro 28:13 He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy.

Stephen forgave those who were stoning him to death but that does not mean God winks at rebellion and will forgive those who refuse to confess and forsake their wickedness. The Bible is very clear...

Isa 55:7 Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

Many people just don't want to believe it. It is so simple that even a child can understand it.

So by Christ at the cross of are we all, the whole world forgiven from God the Father's vantage point?
Did Christ do this for all the world or not? I know not all have received this as a fact yet. But it is a fact per the word that he did do this for all. And I know by this not all are saved for not all believe this as truth.