Forgiveness.
- Thread starter tantalon
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Hello @tantalon, we are to forgive our brother as often as he asks us to forgive him .. e.g. Matthew 18:21-22; Luke 17:3-4.
God bless you!
~Deut
God bless you!
~Deut
Yes, if we do not extend mercy to all, we cannot expect to receive mercy from God.
Hello again Tantalon, are you saying that if the same person sins against me 8x in a single day, or 491x over a lifetime, that Biblically, I am 1. free to disobey Luke 17:3/Matthew 6:12 if I want to, or that 2. even if I wanted to forgive that person again I can't, because the 8th sin (in a single day)/491st sin (in a lifetime) becomes somehow unforgivable
(for that matter, how would I know when someone has committed their 491st sin against me ... is there an iPhone app perhaps 
).Thanks!
~Deut
Matthew 6
12 Forgive us our debts, as we have also forgiven our debtors.
Until you perish from this earth.
Forgive them if they are sincere that they want your forgiveness for offending you.
If they do not want your forgiveness for they are wanting to offend you and do not care, forgive them like Stephen said, Lord lay not this sin to their charge.
Do not retaliate back when offended but forgive.
Hello again Tantalon, what is it about Luke 17:3-4 that gives you that sense (that a brother is taking advantage of you if he asks for your forgiveness one too many times in a day)
I've never had a person ask me to forgive him/her eight times in a day, but I could imagine a scenario where it would not only be possible, it would be genuine as well.That said, I have definitely experienced situations where I know that the forgiveness being sought from me is anything but genuine, and that from the very get-go
I still choose to forgive people, even when it seems clear that their request is not genuine/for the wrong reason(s), but I've often wondered if it is Biblical for us to do so (since the point of forgiveness is to bring about true reconciliation, peace & righteousness between two warring parties). What do you think about that?
Thanks!
~Deut
The fruit of the Spirit is intrinsically woven into forgiveness.
In my own own words, Forgiveness means clearing a debt for the sake of relationship.
My understanding is mercy of our Father is something absolutely free, and it does clear the way for our relationship with Him. It comes with Salvation, and we can do nothng to receive it. This being so, we must expect nothing in return when extending mercy and love to others.
Perhaps you have said this D...…...forgive me if I am pounding on cold iron.
Perhaps you have said this D...…...forgive me if I am pounding on cold iron.
Do you really believe that a person is sincere after lying to you seven times in a day??? It has not so much about the number as about the deceit and sincerity.Hello again Tantalon, what is it about Luke 17:3-4 that gives you that sense (that a brother is taking advantage of you if he asks for your forgiveness one too many times in a day)
That said, I have definitely experienced situations where I know that the forgiveness being sought from me is anything but genuine, and that from the very get-go
What do you think about that?
Thanks!
~Deut
If it were me in that circumstance, I would be saying "I forgive you but I'm tired of your lies."
You seriously don't want to hold unforgiveness in your heart, you're only hurting yourself.
Hello again Tantalon, as I said earlier, insincerity most often happens right out of the starting gate, but I can also imagine instances where someone could choose to sin multiple times in the same day and then sincerely ask for forgiveness multiple times as well.
That said, I agree (with the point you made in your opening, rhetorical question) that the Lord's 7x/day and/or 491x/lifetime command seems like an outrageous scenario, but I think ~outrageous~ is what the Lord was going for when He gave us those numbers in this case
Likewise, my earlier point (about these two passages on forgiveness) was less about the number of times that a person might ask us for forgiveness (and that we are then expected to forgive them), and more about the fact that, in Christ, we are to sincerely forgive others ~WHENEVER~ they ask us to, no matter how many times they ask (and/or how sincerely they ask), in a day, or in a lifetime.
As to the matter of sincerity in all of this (as Christians), unless we know for a ~fact~ that the person asking us for forgiveness is not being sincere (and perhaps, even when we do), we are to forgive them as commanded, because God is their judge in such matters (the motivations of their heart), not us.
I hope that explains my POV a little more clearly (?)
God bless you!
~Deut
p.s. - I'm in the middle of an ongoing study about Biblical forgiveness, and I have come to believe (so far) that most modern Christians choose to seek it, and particularly, offer it, for the wrong reason/reasons, so thank you for starting this thread
G
G2RBeliever
Guest
Forgiveness is not for the benefit of the offender,but the offended!
if we do not forgive others then we have no right to ask for our own forgiveness Just as the servant was forgiven by his master his debt then refused to forgive a fellow servant........Matthew18:23-35
if we do not forgive others then we have no right to ask for our own forgiveness Just as the servant was forgiven by his master his debt then refused to forgive a fellow servant........Matthew18:23-35
Hello G2RBeliever, is Biblical forgiveness not, in the end, meant to be a benefit and blessing for both parties, offender and offended
(as the point of it/what it is meant to lead us to, is reconciliation with one another and peace, yes?).Also, if forgiveness is for the benefit of the offended alone, it what way(s) is it beneficial to God, and not to us, whenever He chooses to forgive us
Thanks!
~Deut
Matthew 18
15 If your brother sins, go and show him his fault in private; if he listens to you, you have won your brother.
James 5
19 My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back,
20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
G
G2RBeliever
Guest
Who denies the most in lack of forgiveness?
Holding on to a supposed offense is detremental to the one withholding forgiveness....imo
i concur both parties might recieve benefit in a personal aspect.
As for the relationship between us and the Lord,He needs no forgiveness from us and we reap benefit in His forgiveness.
Yes forgiveness is the token for reconciliation and peace between two parties ,however sometimes the offender knows not of the offense.
When we are not tender and forgiving it hardens our hearts against others and I believe against God.
am I making sense?
Holding on to a supposed offense is detremental to the one withholding forgiveness....imo
i concur both parties might recieve benefit in a personal aspect.
As for the relationship between us and the Lord,He needs no forgiveness from us and we reap benefit in His forgiveness.
Yes forgiveness is the token for reconciliation and peace between two parties ,however sometimes the offender knows not of the offense.
When we are not tender and forgiving it hardens our hearts against others and I believe against God.
am I making sense?
Isn't this really a revelation of Gods nature? Think about it, how often do any of us encounter someone sinning against us that many times in one day? That can be more like us toward God and He chooses to forgive when we ask for it, for He would not ask us to do something He wouldn't Himself do.